Since when does the Catholic Church have the right to force their religious values...

[Neotrotsky]

If the Progressives were to succeed in all their goals

who would pay the bills?

Right now we have more pulling the "cart" then in it

Once that changes, what then?

Really, they should start training people now to be conservatives
so they have enough people to pay the bills in the future

 

[The T]

If the Progressives were to succeed in all their goals

who would pay the bills?

Right now we have more pulling the "cart" then in it

Once that changes, what then?

Really, they should start training people now to be conservatives
so they have enough people to pay the bills in the future

The new slavery courtesy of the US Government.

Obama has overstepped his authority.

 

[Mustang]

If the Progressives were to succeed in all their goals

who would pay the bills?

Right now we have more pulling the "cart" then in it

Once that changes, what then?

Really, they should start training people now to be conservatives
so they have enough people to pay the bills in the future

The new slavery courtesy of the US Government.

Obama has overstepped his authority.

Tyranny? Slavery?

Maybe you would like to call the UN for help.

Oh, THAT'S right. I forgot. You guys don't trust them and their black helicopters with all the international conspiracies going on and all.

Perhaps you would care to send an SOS messages out into space.

 

[Neotrotsky]

So once the gov't makes the majority dependent on gov't

who will pay the bills?

 

[beagle9]

What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

Arrogance.

The Catholic Church likes to set up secular organizations, take billions in state aid, then force their beliefs upon the community via these secular institutions.

Hmmmm, sounds just like our current government in a way (ARROGANT)


Arrogance also explains a serious problem that we are having with this current President, and his current government/administration in which we are seeing first hand now.

Did anyone see how arrogant the President acted when speaking, upon revising his new order on contraceptives, and this after he had taken the heat in the way that he did for being wrong on it ? This man looked like a dictator when talking in the way that he did on that TV screen afterwards (only thing missing was his finger shaking at us).

Alot of Presidents have taken this stance, as to become arrogant (even when wrong) in the past, and guess what, the people didnot recieve that stance to well, and so they (any president seeking re-election) paid for it at the voting booth next ( especially when had taken that stance against the Americans without regard to in such a case or issue), and I mean they paid for it big time with a landslide loss all because of afterwards, so we shall see now soon enough, the damage that was self inflicted by all of this mayhem created come the general election, but who will be the alternative or the next viable possibility, that can work for all Americans in a more civil balanced way, and a more righteous manor ?

 

[logical4u]

...on their non Catholic employees?

Churches are exempt from the ruling.

However, religious institutions that employ and serve people outside their faith -- hospitals, elementary schools, universities -- have to comply with the requirement to cover birth control if they offer health insurance coverage for employees. That means such Catholic institutions, which employ and serve wide swaths of non-Catholics across the country, will not be exempt, despite church teachings against use of contraception.

Obama Administration's New Contraception Rule Puts Key Catholic Vote at Risk

What gives the Catholic church (or any church, for that matter) the right to force their religious convictions on employees who aren't even catholic?

When you go to work for an employer, you are told what the employer will cover and what they will not cover. The choice to work for that employer is up to you. If you want benefits that cover abortion, go where it is covered. It is not like the Catholics are hiring for positions that are not available by other employers.

 

[FA_Q2]

Except that you're not allowed to discriminate. No one is asking the RCC to do anything, except provide insurance. The people backing their position seem to be on the wrong side of the First Amendment fight, IMO.

Where the hell did discrimination come into this? The Catholic Church is not discriminating against anyone. They do not want to provide a service that violates their beliefs. Period. The other side thinks it is all right for them to be forced into the corner.

You are an idiot. No where did they do any such thing whatsoever. They simply do not want to be a part of it. The employees still have full rights to do whatever they damn well please. You simply do not want to afford the religious institution that same right.

I said, you ignorant fuck,

Churches do not get to run businesses outside US law simply because they have a piece of dogma that conflicts with that law.

Using peyote in a religious ceremony is not running a fucking business.

You must be the dumbest fuck on this forum.

That US law is the problem though because it is utter bullshit. It requires them to provide birth control yet sores right over other medical needs like hearing aids as already covered in this very thread (and the point went unanswered). Why in the hell is BC a mandated service when all those others are not? By what bullshit right does the government decide you MUST cover simple and cheap pills for women and then glaze over actual medical needs that are damn near unobtainable for people that actually need help. It is partisan bullshit agenda pushing and you should wake the hell up to it. The Catholic institutions WANT to provide medical coverage for their employees. They are actively trying to cover them. Then daddy government comes in and says hay, you can't make sure that your employees are healthy and have good coverage unless you buy into MY philosophy and cover what WE want covered, even if it goes against your deeply held convictions. This is a classic case of government stepping WAY over their bounds to force people into doing something they have absolutely ZERO right doing. There is no defense whatsoever that you can put up that puts BC as a required coverage and still ignores all the other procedures that are simply not required.

Good point...so what happens now if the Catholic church just decides not to provide health insurance for it's employees?

They would be fined by the government for not providing HC. That was the basis for the lawsuit. Uncle Sam was basically saying break your convictions or we are going to take your money and break them for you. It is asinine.

 

[saveliberty]

If you're going to ignore truth, don't expect me to listen to moral and discrimination lectures from you mkay?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Good point...so what happens now if the Catholic church just decides not to provide health insurance for it's employees?

They can do that, but they are competing for talent in their businesses just like any other business. You're a medical professional looking for a job in a hospital, or you're an education professional looking for a job at a university...

...how high on your list do you think you'll put the ones with no healthcare plan/benefit???

It's moot. Your messiah caved.

You're sounding like Romney now. Say one thing one place, say the opposite somewhere else.

 

[NYcarbineer]

They can do that, but they are competing for talent in their businesses just like any other business. You're a medical professional looking for a job in a hospital, or you're an education professional looking for a job at a university...

...how high on your list do you think you'll put the ones with no healthcare plan/benefit???

It's moot. Your messiah caved.

I don't see that as a cave. If basically ALL Insurers provide, then the church has no alternatives. He's just creating the same in a different way.

He let the Church save face while effectively getting the outcome he wanted in the first place.

Brilliant, tactically.

 

[California Girl]

It's moot. Your messiah caved.

I don't see that as a cave. If basically ALL Insurers provide, then the church has no alternatives. He's just creating the same in a different way.

He let the Church save face while effectively getting the outcome he wanted in the first place.

Brilliant, tactically.

That's actually not true. The Churches (and it is not just the Catholic Church).... are not happy with the 'accommodation'.

Brilliant? Meh, not so much. Even the black churches are pissed at Obama. He's managed to do one thing though... he has managed to bring together every major faith in the United States.... against him.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Good point...so what happens now if the Catholic church just decides not to provide health insurance for it's employees?

They can do that, but they are competing for talent in their businesses just like any other business. You're a medical professional looking for a job in a hospital, or you're an education professional looking for a job at a university...

...how high on your list do you think you'll put the ones with no healthcare plan/benefit???

In theory the Church could manifest their own health plans given the fact they own half the damn hospitals in the country..

They could also deny those on Obamafuck care if they really wanted to..

Nationwide, major Catholic universities including Fordham, Georgetown, and DePaul all offer birth-control coverage. So does Dignity Health, until recently known as Catholic Healthcare West, the fifth-largest health system in the country. In Massachusetts, the six former Caritas Christi Catholic hospitals, which were recently acquired by Steward Health Care System, all complied with the state law.

You people are abysmally ignorant.

Catholics

 

[NYcarbineer]

I don't see that as a cave. If basically ALL Insurers provide, then the church has no alternatives. He's just creating the same in a different way.

He let the Church save face while effectively getting the outcome he wanted in the first place.

Brilliant, tactically.

That's actually not true. The Churches (and it is not just the Catholic Church).... are not happy with the 'accommodation'.

Brilliant? Meh, not so much. Even the black churches are pissed at Obama. He's managed to do one thing though... he has managed to bring together every major faith in the United States.... against him.

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I don't see that as a cave. If basically ALL Insurers provide, then the church has no alternatives. He's just creating the same in a different way.

He let the Church save face while effectively getting the outcome he wanted in the first place.

Brilliant, tactically.

That's actually not true. The Churches (and it is not just the Catholic Church).... are not happy with the 'accommodation'.

Brilliant? Meh, not so much. Even the black churches are pissed at Obama. He's managed to do one thing though... he has managed to bring together every major faith in the United States.... against him.

Very true

it was just a few hours ago the Left was crying
"How can they break the LAW"

this is not law,

Everyday Papa Obama turns us more and more
into a Banana Republic

 

[saveliberty]

He let the Church save face while effectively getting the outcome he wanted in the first place.

Brilliant, tactically.

That's actually not true. The Churches (and it is not just the Catholic Church).... are not happy with the 'accommodation'.

Brilliant? Meh, not so much. Even the black churches are pissed at Obama. He's managed to do one thing though... he has managed to bring together every major faith in the United States.... against him.

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

Less than five minutes in the voting booth is all we need.

 

[California Girl]

He let the Church save face while effectively getting the outcome he wanted in the first place.

Brilliant, tactically.

That's actually not true. The Churches (and it is not just the Catholic Church).... are not happy with the 'accommodation'.

Brilliant? Meh, not so much. Even the black churches are pissed at Obama. He's managed to do one thing though... he has managed to bring together every major faith in the United States.... against him.

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

He has caved.... but the churches ain't buyin' what your messiah is selling. 54% of Catholics weren't against Obama - they put him in Office. The Catholic vote has been the deciding swing vote for decades - since, like, the early 1960s. If you think Catholics are gonna vote for someone who tries to rob them of their religious freedom, you are in for a surprise. And, when you combine those, with other faiths who also backed him in 2008, but who are now siding with the Catholic Church.... I'd say you have a slight credibility problem.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That's actually not true. The Churches (and it is not just the Catholic Church).... are not happy with the 'accommodation'.

Brilliant? Meh, not so much. Even the black churches are pissed at Obama. He's managed to do one thing though... he has managed to bring together every major faith in the United States.... against him.

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

He has caved.... but the churches ain't buyin' what your messiah is selling. 54% of Catholics weren't against Obama - they put him in Office. The Catholic vote has been the deciding swing vote for decades - since, like, the early 1960s. If you think Catholics are gonna vote for someone who tries to rob them of their religious freedom, you are in for a surprise. And, when you combine those, with other faiths who also backed him in 2008, but who are now siding with the Catholic Church.... I'd say you have a slight credibility problem.

You wrongly believe that the average Catholic voter opposes birth control, or opposes its availability.

 

[Dr.House]

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

He has caved.... but the churches ain't buyin' what your messiah is selling. 54% of Catholics weren't against Obama - they put him in Office. The Catholic vote has been the deciding swing vote for decades - since, like, the early 1960s. If you think Catholics are gonna vote for someone who tries to rob them of their religious freedom, you are in for a surprise. And, when you combine those, with other faiths who also backed him in 2008, but who are now siding with the Catholic Church.... I'd say you have a slight credibility problem.

You wrongly believe that the average Catholic voter opposes birth control, or opposes its availability.

You wrongly believe the average Catholic voter supports the church paying for birth control...

 

[NYcarbineer]

That's actually not true. The Churches (and it is not just the Catholic Church).... are not happy with the 'accommodation'.

Brilliant? Meh, not so much. Even the black churches are pissed at Obama. He's managed to do one thing though... he has managed to bring together every major faith in the United States.... against him.

So you say he caved, but the Church isn't happy with it, but Planned parenthood is...

...what kind of a cave is that exactly?

And no this isn't bringing churches together against him, it's just making church people who were already against him squawk loud enough to get noticed for another 15 minutes.

Less than five minutes in the voting booth is all we need.

You never did, never would, and never will vote for him anyway. You are irrelevant.

 

[NYcarbineer]

He has caved.... but the churches ain't buyin' what your messiah is selling. 54% of Catholics weren't against Obama - they put him in Office. The Catholic vote has been the deciding swing vote for decades - since, like, the early 1960s. If you think Catholics are gonna vote for someone who tries to rob them of their religious freedom, you are in for a surprise. And, when you combine those, with other faiths who also backed him in 2008, but who are now siding with the Catholic Church.... I'd say you have a slight credibility problem.

You wrongly believe that the average Catholic voter opposes birth control, or opposes its availability.

You wrongly believe the average Catholic voter supports the church paying for birth control...

The church isn't paying for it. The employee is paying for it with his or her LABOR.