Single payer system within 7 years

[FJO]

Well, who pays for the public libraries? Public roads? Public schools?
Public parks?

Obviously, taxes of some illiterates supports libraries. Taxes of some who don't drive support building and maintenance of roads. Taxes of some who don't have children pays for schools. Taxes of some who never venture outside pays for parks.

Healthcare is different only that - unlike the above examples - everybody needs it and that it is more expensive. If you want it and/or need it, you pay for it either out of your own pocket, on the spot, or through your taxes.

See that's the problem, people that will never use it and never want to use it will be forced into it. That is why the concept of paying into a pool is so immoral.
Money is fungible, so people will be paying for things they absolutely disagree with every fiber of their being. By the way any type of insurance/socialize medicine is not healthcare… LOL

What and when is NEVER?

Sure, a person in his/her twenties/thirties is reluctant to pay for something that they don't get right now, but if they are lucky to live as long as those whose health care they are so reluctant to contribute to, they will be beneficiary of the common decency they resist and declare immoral now,

Why not make it an opt in? any type of insurance/socialized medicine should be an opt in, you know voluntary... otherwise it's legalized extortior.

Sure, make it an "opt in", but keep a record of it.

When the time comes, when you are old, be prepared to hear: Sorry, you opted out when you were young.

Life is a bitch, What goes around, comes around. You know, KARMA.

I'm not gonna join the collective just because the "village" told me to do so… Why not make your own success it's more gratifying and lasting. I have been self-employed for 20+ years and debt free for 20+ years. I don't think I need the collective to make a life for me.
There's more to life than the collective, you know, like freedom and individuality - that makes life worth living.
You speak of karma, leaching and depending off the collective is bad karma most definitely.

I admire your resolve and success in life.

Heaven forbid that your obituary be blemished by something like "he was always generous to help the less fortunate".

 

[Rustic]

See that's the problem, people that will never use it and never want to use it will be forced into it. That is why the concept of paying into a pool is so immoral.
Money is fungible, so people will be paying for things they absolutely disagree with every fiber of their being. By the way any type of insurance/socialize medicine is not healthcare… LOL

What and when is NEVER?

Sure, a person in his/her twenties/thirties is reluctant to pay for something that they don't get right now, but if they are lucky to live as long as those whose health care they are so reluctant to contribute to, they will be beneficiary of the common decency they resist and declare immoral now,

Why not make it an opt in? any type of insurance/socialized medicine should be an opt in, you know voluntary... otherwise it's legalized extortior.

Sure, make it an "opt in", but keep a record of it.

When the time comes, when you are old, be prepared to hear: Sorry, you opted out when you were young.

Life is a bitch, What goes around, comes around. You know, KARMA.

I'm not gonna join the collective just because the "village" told me to do so… Why not make your own success it's more gratifying and lasting. I have been self-employed for 20+ years and debt free for 20+ years. I don't think I need the collective to make a life for me.
There's more to life than the collective, you know, like freedom and individuality - that makes life worth living.
You speak of karma, leaching and depending off the collective is bad karma most definitely.

I admire your resolve and success in life.

Heaven forbid that your obituary be blemished by something like "he was always generous to help the less fortunate".

Joining the collective is not generous to anybody, the collective is the enemy of the individual.
Growing up and being raised on the Indian reservation I know all about "we are from the government and we are here to help"
I will never trust the collective…

 

[FJO]

What and when is NEVER?

Sure, a person in his/her twenties/thirties is reluctant to pay for something that they don't get right now, but if they are lucky to live as long as those whose health care they are so reluctant to contribute to, they will be beneficiary of the common decency they resist and declare immoral now,

Why not make it an opt in? any type of insurance/socialized medicine should be an opt in, you know voluntary... otherwise it's legalized extortior.

Sure, make it an "opt in", but keep a record of it.

When the time comes, when you are old, be prepared to hear: Sorry, you opted out when you were young.

Life is a bitch, What goes around, comes around. You know, KARMA.

I'm not gonna join the collective just because the "village" told me to do so… Why not make your own success it's more gratifying and lasting. I have been self-employed for 20+ years and debt free for 20+ years. I don't think I need the collective to make a life for me.
There's more to life than the collective, you know, like freedom and individuality - that makes life worth living.
You speak of karma, leaching and depending off the collective is bad karma most definitely.

I admire your resolve and success in life.

Heaven forbid that your obituary be blemished by something like "he was always generous to help the less fortunate".

Joining the collective is not generous to anybody, the collective is the enemy of the individual.
Growing up and being raised on the Indian reservation I know all about "we are from the government and we are here to help"
I will never trust the collective…

You joined the "collective" the day your parents enrolled you in public school.

 

[Rustic]

Why not make it an opt in? any type of insurance/socialized medicine should be an opt in, you know voluntary... otherwise it's legalized extortior.

Sure, make it an "opt in", but keep a record of it.

When the time comes, when you are old, be prepared to hear: Sorry, you opted out when you were young.

Life is a bitch, What goes around, comes around. You know, KARMA.

I'm not gonna join the collective just because the "village" told me to do so… Why not make your own success it's more gratifying and lasting. I have been self-employed for 20+ years and debt free for 20+ years. I don't think I need the collective to make a life for me.
There's more to life than the collective, you know, like freedom and individuality - that makes life worth living.
You speak of karma, leaching and depending off the collective is bad karma most definitely.

I admire your resolve and success in life.

Heaven forbid that your obituary be blemished by something like "he was always generous to help the less fortunate".

Joining the collective is not generous to anybody, the collective is the enemy of the individual.
Growing up and being raised on the Indian reservation I know all about "we are from the government and we are here to help"
I will never trust the collective…

You joined the "collective" the day your parents enrolled you in public school.

It doesn't work that way on the Indian reservation… There is no enrollment, you are just forced to go.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Medicare is a single payer system,

If it is good enough for people over 65, it should be good for all,

Should be? What if it is not? Assuming it is not the perfect system for all, (crazy thought I know), what choices will they have?

Lads,

I have been saying this since I am blue in the face... Why not actually look at what many European countries have done....

Nearly all the EU countries have a single payer system in place... This offers plastic seats, waiting times on elective procedures (i.e hip replacement), little choice of doctor.... Basic plan with no frills.... France has more frills and other countries (Ireland) has less... The national Insurance pays for private care for GPs with money coming out of your pocket depending on your earning.

On top of that:
You can buy private insurance which gives you direct access to private hospitals, full choice of doctor, little to no Wait times.... Private room in Hospitals... The Public hospitals are bigger and have more specialities and are better if anything goes wrong, private are good for routine stuff... This cost is very manageable at approx $100 a month...
They have a risk equalisation so everyone (barring penalties for lapse) pays the same if you are 26 or 90, man or woman... The Insurance companies can only discount you for 5 years with pre-existing condition (for that particular illness), people usually never lapse and can move companies easily...
This is better and cheaper than the present US system without being perfect...

Who pays for the single-payer system… The people that want nothing to do with it, that's who. Fuck that

Well, who pays for the public libraries? Public roads? Public schools?
Public parks?

Obviously, taxes of some illiterates supports libraries. Taxes of some who don't drive support building and maintenance of roads. Taxes of some who don't have children pays for schools. Taxes of some who never venture outside pays for parks.

Healthcare is different only that - unlike the above examples - everybody needs it and that it is more expensive. If you want it and/or need it, you pay for it either out of your own pocket, on the spot, or through your taxes.

I don't know where you live, but here, people vote on parks, libraries and schools. As for roads, everybody uses them whether you drive or not. How do you get your mail? How do you get your groceries? How do trucks get goods to your grocery store? So we all need roads.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[JoeB131]

I especially love when you believe stats from places like Cuba.

never brought up Cuba...

I was doing an apples to apples comparison of the G-7 nations. and we fall behind every last one of them in key health metrics.

 

[basquebromance]

REMINDER: Dems had a super majority to pass single payer in 2010. they...didn't.

 

[healthmyths]

I especially love when you believe stats from places like Cuba.

never brought up Cuba...

I was doing an apples to apples comparison of the G-7 nations. and we fall behind every last one of them in key health metrics.

A) Where are NEW drugs going to be developed?
Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B
A benchmark report estimates that the cost of bringing a drug to market has more than doubled in the past 10 years
CSDD’s finding, a bellwether figure in the drug industry, is based on an average out-of-pocket cost of $1.4 billion and an estimate of $1.2 billion in returns that investors forego on that money during the 10-plus years a drug candidate spends in development. The center’s analysis drew from information provided by 10 pharmaceutical companies on 106 randomly selected drugs first tested in humans between 1995 and 2007.

The study concludes that another $312 million is spent on postapproval development—studies to test new indications, formulations, and dosage strengths—for a life-cycle cost of $2.9 billion,
Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B

B) So what country in this world has developed more Drugs then the USA???
Obama Care Will End Drug Advances and Europe's Free Ride (Unless China Steps in)
Ninety five percent of the new drugs coming on the market are developed for sale in the United States. They are paid for by American consumers, while other countries, such as Canada, Germany and France, free ride at our expense. The United States is the last major country that allows the market to set prices high enough to compensate pharmaceutical companies for their R&D investments. Obama Care will increasingly control pharmaceutical prices as costs rise and federal and state funds fall short. Major pharmaceutical advances will stop (How well will government labs work?), and the rest of the world will lose along with Americans.
Obama Care Will End Drug Advances and Europe's Free Ride (Unless China Steps in)

C)What is the success rate of a drug???
report released today by the biotech industry’s national trade group finds less than one of every 10 drugs that enter clinical trials is ultimately approved by the Food and Drug Administration.
The report is sponsored by the Biotechnology Innovation Organization, or BIO. Its reported success rate, of 9.6 percent, is less than the success rate cited in a widely cited 2014 study by Tufts University’s Center for the Study of Drug Development, which set the rate of success at 11.8 percent, or one in eight.
http://www.amplion.com/inthenews/report-suggests-drug-approval-rate-now-just-1-in-1

 

[frigidweirdo]

REMINDER: Dems had a super majority to pass single payer in 2010. they...didn't.

One of the problems there was that Obama is a good politician, in that he plays the game, and probably decided that it wasn't worth going for something that would be so difficult to implement and attacked from most sides.

 

[JoeB131]

A) Where are NEW drugs going to be developed?

Hopefully by medical professionals and not companies trying to make obsene profits.

"Hey, we haven't cured cancer yet, but we have this new drug that makes your dick hard!"

 

[healthmyths]

A) Where are NEW drugs going to be developed?

Hopefully by medical professionals and not companies trying to make obsene profits.

"Hey, we haven't cured cancer yet, but we have this new drug that makes your dick hard!"

What an idiot and you can't even spell obscene! See I know you are not only ignorant about drug companies and the millions of lives they've saved but
you can't even pay attention to information on your screen telling you that the word "obsene" IS spelled wrong!
To me, everything you say is so stupid if you can't even pay attention the little red dotted line correcting your dumb spelling!
If you can't pay attention to something so simple as that you won't even comprehend the concept that "obscene profits" is a cliche dumb f...ked up statement!

 

[JoeB131]

What an idiot and you can't even spell obscene! See I know you are not only ignorant about drug companies and the millions of lives they've saved but
you can't even pay attention to information on your screen telling you that the word "obsene" IS spelled wrong!
To me, everything you say is so stupid if you can't even pay attention the little red dotted line correcting your dumb spelling!
If you can't pay attention to something so simple as that you won't even comprehend the concept that "obscene profits" is a cliche dumb f...ked up statement!

So essentially, you've been so conditioned to defend greed you can't have a civil conversation?

The drug companies are about profits, not cures. It's why they spend millions of dollars advertising drugs that most of us probably don't need instead of researching actual cures...

The thing is, the REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT.

Once you determine health care is a right and not a commodity, everything else falls into place.

 

[healthmyths]

What an idiot and you can't even spell obscene! See I know you are not only ignorant about drug companies and the millions of lives they've saved but
you can't even pay attention to information on your screen telling you that the word "obsene" IS spelled wrong!
To me, everything you say is so stupid if you can't even pay attention the little red dotted line correcting your dumb spelling!
If you can't pay attention to something so simple as that you won't even comprehend the concept that "obscene profits" is a cliche dumb f...ked up statement!

So essentially, you've been so conditioned to defend greed you can't have a civil conversation?

The drug companies are about profits, not cures. It's why they spend millions of dollars advertising drugs that most of us probably don't need instead of researching actual cures...

The thing is, the REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT.

Once you determine health care is a right and not a commodity, everything else falls into place.

No can't have a conversation with someone who can't even pay attention to a spelling warning! Dumb people like you continue to pass on dumb ass comments
about drug companies.
YOU have NO IDEA obviously that:

 

[JoeB131]

YOU have NO IDEA obviously that:

No, I don't care about Big Pharma propaganda.

So if we get rid of Big Pharma Cocksuckers being able to bankrupt sick people... you know, like THIS asshole ....

and replace it with government funded research, we'll be just fine, thanks.

 

[Rustic]

Single-payer = end of the country. Fact

 

[healthmyths]

YOU have NO IDEA obviously that:

No, I don't care about Big Pharma propaganda.

So if we get rid of Big Pharma Cocksuckers being able to bankrupt sick people... you know, like THIS asshole ....

and replace it with government funded research, we'll be just fine, thanks.

Way to go ! I totally agree this guy was a dick. And like most ignorant people what YOU do is you take the EXCEPTION and make it the rule!
ALL drug companies are evil dicks like this guy.
Well here is my generalization about YOU!
YOU haven't an original thought in your head!
You read headlines!
You as this article points out have a 5 second attention span!
Millennials only have a 5-second attention span for ads, says comScore CEO

• Millennial attention spans require ads that are just 5 to 6 seconds in length, according to a new study by comScore.
• Millennials spent 61 percent of their online time in smartphone apps, 8 percent on the mobile web, 25 percent on desktop, and just 5 percent on tablets.

Millennials only have a 5-second attention span for ads, says comScore CEO
You can't handle anything more complicated then what you can in 5 to 6 seconds in length!
Truly a dumb person like you takes the exceptional situation like this guy and makes it the rule.
Well you are also fitting the rule! Attention span so short you can ONLY handle headlines! Truly without any intelligent discourse capabilities.

 

[healthmyths]

BIG EVIL DRUG company!!!

Pfizer (PFE, -0.18%) reports that it donated more than $3 billion in medicines last year, in addition to cash. The pharmaceutical company declined to share details on its biggest cash donations in 2015. But it said that recent grantees include the International Trachoma Initiative, which seeks to eliminate the eye infection that can cause blindness, and Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance, which increases access to immunizations. Pfizer provides employees with the chance to spend up to six months embedding with international aid groups. To date, more than 300 people have participated.

 

[Political Junky]

I especially love when you believe stats from places like Cuba.

never brought up Cuba...

I was doing an apples to apples comparison of the G-7 nations. and we fall behind every last one of them in key health metrics.

A) Where are NEW drugs going to be developed?
Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B
A benchmark report estimates that the cost of bringing a drug to market has more than doubled in the past 10 years
CSDD’s finding, a bellwether figure in the drug industry, is based on an average out-of-pocket cost of $1.4 billion and an estimate of $1.2 billion in returns that investors forego on that money during the 10-plus years a drug candidate spends in development. The center’s analysis drew from information provided by 10 pharmaceutical companies on 106 randomly selected drugs first tested in humans between 1995 and 2007.

The study concludes that another $312 million is spent on postapproval development—studies to test new indications, formulations, and dosage strengths—for a life-cycle cost of $2.9 billion,
Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B

B) So what country in this world has developed more Drugs then the USA???
Obama Care Will End Drug Advances and Europe's Free Ride (Unless China Steps in)
Ninety five percent of the new drugs coming on the market are developed for sale in the United States. They are paid for by American consumers, while other countries, such as Canada, Germany and France, free ride at our expense. The United States is the last major country that allows the market to set prices high enough to compensate pharmaceutical companies for their R&D investments. Obama Care will increasingly control pharmaceutical prices as costs rise and federal and state funds fall short. Major pharmaceutical advances will stop (How well will government labs work?), and the rest of the world will lose along with Americans.
Obama Care Will End Drug Advances and Europe's Free Ride (Unless China Steps in)

C)What is the success rate of a drug???
report released today by the biotech industry’s national trade group finds less than one of every 10 drugs that enter clinical trials is ultimately approved by the Food and Drug Administration.
The report is sponsored by the Biotechnology Innovation Organization, or BIO. Its reported success rate, of 9.6 percent, is less than the success rate cited in a widely cited 2014 study by Tufts University’s Center for the Study of Drug Development, which set the rate of success at 11.8 percent, or one in eight.
http://www.amplion.com/inthenews/report-suggests-drug-approval-rate-now-just-1-in-1

So you think that drugs developed in the US should cost Americans more than in any other country?

 

[healthmyths]

I especially love when you believe stats from places like Cuba.

never brought up Cuba...

I was doing an apples to apples comparison of the G-7 nations. and we fall behind every last one of them in key health metrics.

A) Where are NEW drugs going to be developed?
Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B
A benchmark report estimates that the cost of bringing a drug to market has more than doubled in the past 10 years
CSDD’s finding, a bellwether figure in the drug industry, is based on an average out-of-pocket cost of $1.4 billion and an estimate of $1.2 billion in returns that investors forego on that money during the 10-plus years a drug candidate spends in development. The center’s analysis drew from information provided by 10 pharmaceutical companies on 106 randomly selected drugs first tested in humans between 1995 and 2007.

The study concludes that another $312 million is spent on postapproval development—studies to test new indications, formulations, and dosage strengths—for a life-cycle cost of $2.9 billion,
Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B

B) So what country in this world has developed more Drugs then the USA???
Obama Care Will End Drug Advances and Europe's Free Ride (Unless China Steps in)
Ninety five percent of the new drugs coming on the market are developed for sale in the United States. They are paid for by American consumers, while other countries, such as Canada, Germany and France, free ride at our expense. The United States is the last major country that allows the market to set prices high enough to compensate pharmaceutical companies for their R&D investments. Obama Care will increasingly control pharmaceutical prices as costs rise and federal and state funds fall short. Major pharmaceutical advances will stop (How well will government labs work?), and the rest of the world will lose along with Americans.
Obama Care Will End Drug Advances and Europe's Free Ride (Unless China Steps in)

C)What is the success rate of a drug???
report released today by the biotech industry’s national trade group finds less than one of every 10 drugs that enter clinical trials is ultimately approved by the Food and Drug Administration.
The report is sponsored by the Biotechnology Innovation Organization, or BIO. Its reported success rate, of 9.6 percent, is less than the success rate cited in a widely cited 2014 study by Tufts University’s Center for the Study of Drug Development, which set the rate of success at 11.8 percent, or one in eight.
http://www.amplion.com/inthenews/report-suggests-drug-approval-rate-now-just-1-in-1

So you think that drugs developed in the US should cost Americans more than in any other country?

I think people are totally ignorant about drug companies, their financing etc., and that statement is so typical of ignorant people!
Once again you are depending on me to educate you about how money works.
A) THE FDA is the most stringent regulations body of all countries...hence the 10 years or more to get a drug approved. THAT adds to the cost!
Any other country with a drug company based would NOT attempt to get FDA approval. THAT is the first hurdle!
B) R&D resources... AGAIN did read what I put up after I did the research??? The highest portion of drug companies reviews for R&D of any industry... in the USA!
NOW dummy what do you think that would be in say England, France,etc. Switzerland? Again if they could get it through the FDA!
FDA does not oversee the manufacturing of drugs that are imported illegally into the United States, such as those that consumers purchase from Canada or other sources on the Internet, and their quality cannot be assured by FDA. How does FDA oversee domestic and foreign drug manufacturing?

Now THANKS to President Trump the onerous and debilitating rules and regulations of the Federal government is being attacked! For every 1 NEW rule/regulation
2 have to be retired. Now do you think that will be helpful to the drug companies? Of COURSE DUMMY!!!

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Medicare is a single payer system,

If it is good enough for people over 65, it should be good for all,

Medicare is supposed to help dying along. Do you want that for everyone?