So cvs is going to stop selling tobacco

[martybegan]

That is called "control" Marty. You are controlling a most addictive substance because ta da, you know how addictive nicotine really is. Try smoking 2 stogies a day and see how much control you maintain.

I used to listen to some recovering alcoholics talk about trying to quit smoking. To a man, they said quitting cigs was tougher than quitting alcohol. Tough addiction because nicotine goes so well with everything. Coffee in the morning, beer at night, after a meal and because you are hungry, need to unwind, need to get wound up. Nicotine in a really adaptive drug. I know, I smoked for a long time.

If I tried smoking 2 cigars a day I would be sick. To me they are an occasional treat, nothing more. Same as pot.

For the overwhelming majority of smokers it is an addiction. And cigarettes (as I said, leaving other forms of tobacco use out) is far deadlier than obesity.

Dead early is Dead early, no matter what the pathway.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Then why can I limit myself to 2-3 stogies a year?

If they managed to take most of the problems out of nicotine use via E-cigs, then why should people who want to use it not enjoy using it?

First the issue was 2nd hand SMOKE because it affected others, now that the SMOKE has been eliminated, its all about the health of the smoker, except e-cigs remove 95% of the health issues, which were caused by combustion products, not the nicotine itself.

The evidence that E-Cigs are safe or harmful is not in, no one knows! The fact that E-Cigs deliver nicotine, an addictive drug, should concern all responsible adults. Minors are being marketed to and the purveyors of E-Cigs know they are creating addicts.

Coffee delivers caffine, an addictive drug. Just ask a person who hasn't had thier morning coffee.

Scotch delivers ethanol, an addictive drug.

E-cigs eliminate the primary cause of health issues in tobacco users, combustion products. Nicotine also has detrimental health effects, but not anywhere near those caused by combustion products.

Classic Red Herring ^^^.

Much research has been conducted on the use of Coffee, and the withdrawl from caffine is mnor in most people, not so with nicotine.

Scotch is addictive, and alcohol in large amounts is lethal. We learned that prohibiion didn't work, hence large resources of spent to treat those addicted to alcohol. People can die from alcohol withdrawl, not so with caffine.

E-Cigs are expensive and create addiction. How do you know that they are not the new gateway drug?

 

[WinterBorn]

If I tried smoking 2 cigars a day I would be sick. To me they are an occasional treat, nothing more. Same as pot.

For the overwhelming majority of smokers it is an addiction. And cigarettes (as I said, leaving other forms of tobacco use out) is far deadlier than obesity.

Dead early is Dead early, no matter what the pathway.

For each individual, that may be true. But if cigs cause far more death and have far, far fewer users enjoying "safe levels", it explains why CVS chose to stop selling tobacco and is still selling candy. Which was the point of the OP.

 

[martybegan]

The evidence that E-Cigs are safe or harmful is not in, no one knows! The fact that E-Cigs deliver nicotine, an addictive drug, should concern all responsible adults. Minors are being marketed to and the purveyors of E-Cigs know they are creating addicts.

Coffee delivers caffine, an addictive drug. Just ask a person who hasn't had thier morning coffee.

Scotch delivers ethanol, an addictive drug.

E-cigs eliminate the primary cause of health issues in tobacco users, combustion products. Nicotine also has detrimental health effects, but not anywhere near those caused by combustion products.

Classic Red Herring ^^^.

Much research has been conducted on the use of Coffee, and the withdrawl from caffine is mnor in most people, not so with nicotine.

Scotch is addictive, and alcohol in large amounts is lethal. We learned that prohibiion didn't work, hence large resources of spent to treat those addicted to alcohol. People can die from alcohol withdrawl, not so with caffine.

E-Cigs are expensive and create addiction. How do you know that they are not the new gateway drug?

Same as pot not being a gateway drug. I am an occasional user, and used it alot in college. Never went to other drugs.

E-Cigs remove 95% of the health issues from nicotine use. They have come up with a safer product. However the anti-tobacco zelotry in some people is so great (probably miserable ex smokers) that even that is not enough.

And my points are no red herring at all. I get it, you heart caffine and alcohol but hate tobacco, so naturally everyone else has to toe the line. Typical progressive statist mentality.

 

[novasteve]

That is called "control" Marty. You are controlling a most addictive substance because ta da, you know how addictive nicotine really is. Try smoking 2 stogies a day and see how much control you maintain.

I used to listen to some recovering alcoholics talk about trying to quit smoking. To a man, they said quitting cigs was tougher than quitting alcohol. Tough addiction because nicotine goes so well with everything. Coffee in the morning, beer at night, after a meal and because you are hungry, need to unwind, need to get wound up. Nicotine in a really adaptive drug. I know, I smoked for a long time.

If I tried smoking 2 cigars a day I would be sick. To me they are an occasional treat, nothing more. Same as pot.

For the overwhelming majority of smokers it is an addiction. And cigarettes (as I said, leaving other forms of tobacco use out) is far deadlier than obesity.

Wrong. Obesity kills more people

 

[zeke]

That is called "control" Marty. You are controlling a most addictive substance because ta da, you know how addictive nicotine really is. Try smoking 2 stogies a day and see how much control you maintain.

I used to listen to some recovering alcoholics talk about trying to quit smoking. To a man, they said quitting cigs was tougher than quitting alcohol. Tough addiction because nicotine goes so well with everything. Coffee in the morning, beer at night, after a meal and because you are hungry, need to unwind, need to get wound up. Nicotine in a really adaptive drug. I know, I smoked for a long time.

If I tried smoking 2 cigars a day I would be sick. To me they are an occasional treat, nothing more. Same as pot.

For the overwhelming majority of smokers it is an addiction. And cigarettes (as I said, leaving other forms of tobacco use out) is far deadlier than obesity.

When a person dies of diabetes complications brought on from being obese, is the cause of death listed as obesity related diabetes or just diabetes?

Same for heart disease brought on by obesity. When that person dies from heart trouble brought on by obesity, how is the death noted?

I ask because I think obesity is actually a bigger problem than smoking. And may be harder to stop. But I don't know for sure. That's why I asked.

 

[novasteve]

For the overwhelming majority of smokers it is an addiction. And cigarettes (as I said, leaving other forms of tobacco use out) is far deadlier than obesity.

Dead early is Dead early, no matter what the pathway.

For each individual, that may be true. But if cigs cause far more death and have far, far fewer users enjoying "safe levels", it explains why CVS chose to stop selling tobacco and is still selling candy. Which was the point of the OP.

Are their age restrictions on candy?

 

[WinterBorn]

Coffee delivers caffine, an addictive drug. Just ask a person who hasn't had thier morning coffee.

Scotch delivers ethanol, an addictive drug.

E-cigs eliminate the primary cause of health issues in tobacco users, combustion products. Nicotine also has detrimental health effects, but not anywhere near those caused by combustion products.

Classic Red Herring ^^^.

Much research has been conducted on the use of Coffee, and the withdrawl from caffine is mnor in most people, not so with nicotine.

Scotch is addictive, and alcohol in large amounts is lethal. We learned that prohibiion didn't work, hence large resources of spent to treat those addicted to alcohol. People can die from alcohol withdrawl, not so with caffine.

E-Cigs are expensive and create addiction. How do you know that they are not the new gateway drug?

Same as pot not being a gateway drug. I am an occasional user, and used it alot in college. Never went to other drugs.

E-Cigs remove 95% of the health issues from nicotine use. They have come up with a safer product. However the anti-tobacco zelotry in some people is so great (probably miserable ex smokers) that even that is not enough.

And my points are no red herring at all. I get it, you heart caffine and alcohol but hate tobacco, so naturally everyone else has to toe the line. Typical progressive statist mentality.

Has anyone here advocated a ban on tobacco? Or have they argued that Novasteve's position is nonsense?

CVS is a private business. Shouldn't they decide what they sell and what they don't?

 

[martybegan]

For the overwhelming majority of smokers it is an addiction. And cigarettes (as I said, leaving other forms of tobacco use out) is far deadlier than obesity.

Dead early is Dead early, no matter what the pathway.

For each individual, that may be true. But if cigs cause far more death and have far, far fewer users enjoying "safe levels", it explains why CVS chose to stop selling tobacco and is still selling candy. Which was the point of the OP.

Because there are more people butthurt over tobacco in any form than over candy in any form. Dont worry. after alcohol has its turn, M&M's will be next for the anti-fun brigade.

E-Cigs remove the main cause of health issues with tobacco, i.e. the combustion products caused by burning it. and it probably reduces the required dose of nicotine due to the easier absorption from a vapor carrier than a smoke carrier. Why then all the opposition to a new technology that solves most of the problems with cigarettes (i.e. somek and second hand smoke?)

 

[martybegan]

Classic Red Herring ^^^.

Much research has been conducted on the use of Coffee, and the withdrawl from caffine is mnor in most people, not so with nicotine.

Scotch is addictive, and alcohol in large amounts is lethal. We learned that prohibiion didn't work, hence large resources of spent to treat those addicted to alcohol. People can die from alcohol withdrawl, not so with caffine.

E-Cigs are expensive and create addiction. How do you know that they are not the new gateway drug?

Same as pot not being a gateway drug. I am an occasional user, and used it alot in college. Never went to other drugs.

E-Cigs remove 95% of the health issues from nicotine use. They have come up with a safer product. However the anti-tobacco zelotry in some people is so great (probably miserable ex smokers) that even that is not enough.

And my points are no red herring at all. I get it, you heart caffine and alcohol but hate tobacco, so naturally everyone else has to toe the line. Typical progressive statist mentality.

Has anyone here advocated a ban on tobacco? Or have they argued that Novasteve's position is nonsense?

CVS is a private business. Shouldn't they decide what they sell and what they don't?

CVS can do whatever the hell they want, this part of the thread is more about the desire to remove tobacco use in general.

 

[WinterBorn]

Dead early is Dead early, no matter what the pathway.

For each individual, that may be true. But if cigs cause far more death and have far, far fewer users enjoying "safe levels", it explains why CVS chose to stop selling tobacco and is still selling candy. Which was the point of the OP.

Are their age restrictions on candy?

What relevance does that have?

But since you asked, no there isn't. Which means a larger portion of the population can buy candy and it still has fewer deaths. 300k v. 440k per year.

 

[WinterBorn]

Same as pot not being a gateway drug. I am an occasional user, and used it alot in college. Never went to other drugs.

E-Cigs remove 95% of the health issues from nicotine use. They have come up with a safer product. However the anti-tobacco zelotry in some people is so great (probably miserable ex smokers) that even that is not enough.

And my points are no red herring at all. I get it, you heart caffine and alcohol but hate tobacco, so naturally everyone else has to toe the line. Typical progressive statist mentality.

Has anyone here advocated a ban on tobacco? Or have they argued that Novasteve's position is nonsense?

CVS is a private business. Shouldn't they decide what they sell and what they don't?

CVS can do whatever the hell they want, this part of the thread is more about the desire to remove tobacco use in general.

I have seen people arguing the inherent dangers and addictive nature of tobacco. But I must have missed the people who argued for the removal of tobacco in general.

 

[martybegan]

Has anyone here advocated a ban on tobacco? Or have they argued that Novasteve's position is nonsense?

CVS is a private business. Shouldn't they decide what they sell and what they don't?

CVS can do whatever the hell they want, this part of the thread is more about the desire to remove tobacco use in general.

I have seen people arguing the inherent dangers and addictive nature of tobacco. But I must have missed the people who argued for the removal of tobacco in general.

Its the next logical step for those of a progressive bent. We can't be trusted to make up our own minds, the government has to ban crap, or if not ban, make it so hard to get that you get a de facto ban, even without a de jure ban.

 

[WinterBorn]

CVS can do whatever the hell they want, this part of the thread is more about the desire to remove tobacco use in general.

I have seen people arguing the inherent dangers and addictive nature of tobacco. But I must have missed the people who argued for the removal of tobacco in general.

Its the next logical step for those of a progressive bent. We can't be trusted to make up our own minds, the government has to ban crap, or if not ban, make it so hard to get that you get a de facto ban, even without a de jure ban.

So your argument is based on what you THINK some of us want, rather than what we actually said?

And Nova's silliness of "They banned tobacco but still sell alcohol & candy so they are bigots!" you give a free pass?

LOL! Okey dokey.

 

[martybegan]

I have seen people arguing the inherent dangers and addictive nature of tobacco. But I must have missed the people who argued for the removal of tobacco in general.

Its the next logical step for those of a progressive bent. We can't be trusted to make up our own minds, the government has to ban crap, or if not ban, make it so hard to get that you get a de facto ban, even without a de jure ban.

So your argument is based on what you THINK some of us want, rather than what we actually said?

And Nova's silliness of "They banned tobacco but still sell alcohol & candy so they are bigots!" you give a free pass?

LOL! Okey dokey.

Other people can take on Nova's silliness, me doing it would be redundant. His posts are idiotic, but are sometimes useful vehicles for real discussion.

Wry's argument is based on THINKING that E-cigs are just as bad as real cigs.

I take my cue from posters past positions, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Sunshine]

Will they stop selling alcohol and soda and candy too?

Fair point the alcohol at least. Sweets and pop is kinda a toss-up though. Sugar isn't a drug like tobacco or alcohol. So while it's unhealthy in excess, if not in excess it isn't anywhere close to the same not-healthy level of booze and tobacco.

For some people sugar in reasonable amounts is lethal.

 

[WinterBorn]

Its the next logical step for those of a progressive bent. We can't be trusted to make up our own minds, the government has to ban crap, or if not ban, make it so hard to get that you get a de facto ban, even without a de jure ban.

So your argument is based on what you THINK some of us want, rather than what we actually said?

And Nova's silliness of "They banned tobacco but still sell alcohol & candy so they are bigots!" you give a free pass?

LOL! Okey dokey.

Other people can take on Nova's silliness, me doing it would be redundant. His posts are idiotic, but are sometimes useful vehicles for real discussion.

Wry's argument is based on THINKING that E-cigs are just as bad as real cigs.

I take my cue from posters past positions, nothing more, nothing less.

e-cigs are not an issue for me. I tried them one of the times I tried to quit smoking. It didn't do much for me. I smoked for 30 years. I tried numerous methods of quitting including cold-turkey, Chantix (3 times) and that shot that has such a high success rate (never again). I finally put them down for good a couple of years ago. I quit eating candy and most processed foods with far less effort & stress. My personal experience agrees with the studies I have seen that show smoking as one of the toughest addictions to quit.

The big difference in cigar smokers and cigarette smokers is whether or not they inhale. Pretty much all cig smokers inhale. I still enjoy the occasional cigar, but if I smoke one or two cigs I will be back to smoking pretty quickly. That is a fundamental difference in my mind.

 

[Sunshine]

I don't understand your question.

It is their business. Who cares what they decide to sell or not to sell.

THIS!

CVS decided they didn't want to sell tobacco any more. Sounds like a solid decision for a company in the health business. Doesn't mean they have to quit selling everything that isn't medicine & healthful.

Obesity is a bigger problem than smoking, yet the continue to sell junk food yet are in the "health business". When you single out one group you don't approve of, isn't that bigotry?

I don't think it is bigotry. They are doing this to make a statement about health, not about people. However, there is nothing that will stop them from making butt loads of money off the medications to treat the conditions which tobacco causes or causes to be worse. I do think it is hypocritical at best since they sell plenty of junk food and won't stop.

 

[martybegan]

So your argument is based on what you THINK some of us want, rather than what we actually said?

And Nova's silliness of "They banned tobacco but still sell alcohol & candy so they are bigots!" you give a free pass?

LOL! Okey dokey.

Other people can take on Nova's silliness, me doing it would be redundant. His posts are idiotic, but are sometimes useful vehicles for real discussion.

Wry's argument is based on THINKING that E-cigs are just as bad as real cigs.

I take my cue from posters past positions, nothing more, nothing less.

e-cigs are not an issue for me. I tried them one of the times I tried to quit smoking. It didn't do much for me. I smoked for 30 years. I tried numerous methods of quitting including cold-turkey, Chantix (3 times) and that shot that has such a high success rate (never again). I finally put them down for good a couple of years ago. I quit eating candy and most processed foods with far less effort & stress. My personal experience agrees with the studies I have seen that show smoking as one of the toughest addictions to quit.

The big difference in cigar smokers and cigarette smokers is whether or not they inhale. Pretty much all cig smokers inhale. I still enjoy the occasional cigar, but if I smoke one or two cigs I will be back to smoking pretty quickly. That is a fundamental difference in my mind.

Everyone I know who had to quit did seem to have a hard time with it. However it doesnt justify the current knee jerk reaction to e-cigs, with them being lumped in with normal tobacco use. Someone got innovative and removed the main issue with cigarettes, and now the anti-tobacco people are just knee jerk reacting to it, as if it changes nothing.

 

[Sunshine]

So your argument is based on what you THINK some of us want, rather than what we actually said?

And Nova's silliness of "They banned tobacco but still sell alcohol & candy so they are bigots!" you give a free pass?

LOL! Okey dokey.

Other people can take on Nova's silliness, me doing it would be redundant. His posts are idiotic, but are sometimes useful vehicles for real discussion.

Wry's argument is based on THINKING that E-cigs are just as bad as real cigs.

I take my cue from posters past positions, nothing more, nothing less.

e-cigs are not an issue for me. I tried them one of the times I tried to quit smoking. It didn't do much for me. I smoked for 30 years. I tried numerous methods of quitting including cold-turkey, Chantix (3 times) and that shot that has such a high success rate (never again). I finally put them down for good a couple of years ago. I quit eating candy and most processed foods with far less effort & stress. My personal experience agrees with the studies I have seen that show smoking as one of the toughest addictions to quit.

The big difference in cigar smokers and cigarette smokers is whether or not they inhale. Pretty much all cig smokers inhale. I still enjoy the occasional cigar, but if I smoke one or two cigs I will be back to smoking pretty quickly. That is a fundamental difference in my mind.

The VA has a major push going to get veterans to stop smoking. When I was there, they said that if returning veterans continue in the lifestyle of the previous veterans the VA will not be able to sustain itself. I am pretty amazed at the number of veterans who have quit. When they went to their primary care provider for Chantix that provider always wanted some guarantee from me that the patient wouldn't kill himself if it made him depressed, and that is a guarantee I just can't give about anyone.

People accept that smoking is costly to the system, however there is a study out of Vanderbilt that I posted a couple years ago which shows that smokers are LESS costly to the system because they die about mid 50s whereas non smokers live much longer and require a lot of expensive end of life care.