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Wrong, ANY firearms dealer has an FFL and MUST preform a background check and 99percent of all sellers of firearms at gunshows are LICENSED. Further the law is strict if you sell more then a certain number of firearms in a year YOU MUST BE LICENSED. There is no huge underground of private sellers paying good money for booth at a gunshow to sell their family heirlooms.Bullshit you got caught being ignorant and are trying to worm your way out.A business license you IDIOT! That is a requirement...a licensed storefront business!!!!If they are licensed gun dealers, and if they use their business in that manner to sell at gun shows in the State in which they're licensed, and if they don't sell to straw buyers under the table or otherwise, yeah! If you're claiming ALL DEALERS have to perform the same background checks as those licensed dealers in their licensing State at gun shows then you're full of shit!ALL licensed gun dealers MUST preform background checks even at Gunshows you retard. THAT is the law. Further almost all firearms sold at gunshows come from LICENSED Dealers. Also a fact. But you dumb asses keep ignoring facts and make shit up.
If they are licensed gun dealers, and if they use their business in that manner to sell at gun shows in the State in which they're licensed, and if they don't sell to straw buyers under the table or otherwise, yeah! If you're claiming ALL DEALERS have to perform the same background checks as those licensed dealers in their licensing State at gun shows then you're full of shit!
So 'splain to me why the 2A'ers and the NRA have fought so bloody hard to keep gun show sales exempted from background checks for each transaction, if as you imply, most sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers!
I'm fine with others exercising the 2A rights, but I don't believe those rights extend to dealers at gun shows to break the law and sell to straw buyers to supply weapons to criminals. If you feel otherwise, then you're an IDIOT!
Proof you are ignorant.....
Gun dealers are licensed by ATF, not individual states.
You said "licensed gun dealers". No state I know of has a specific license for gun dealers. I have a retail license in Alabama I can sell all sorts of things.
Fuck you IDIOT. I wrote this:
"If they are licensed gun dealers, and if they use their business in that manner to sell at gun shows in the State in which they're licensed, and if they don't sell to straw buyers under the table or otherwise, yeah!"
They need a State business license as one of the requirements to qualify for the Federal permitting for their STATE operation to do the background checks. Private dealers at gun shows don't need to go through that process, IDIOT! THAT'S THE FUCKING LOOPHOLE! Damn you are fucking obtuse! Now piss off asshole!
310,000,000/20,000 = 15,500The over all number of guns is irrelevant.There are 310 million of them in the US. Every year, maybe 20,000 are used by criminals. What's that, one of every 115,500?By lessening the number of guns.So, making law abiding citizens jump through more hoops to exercise their right to keep and bear arms will prevent criminals from stockpiling weapons?Lol that's funny. So what about the other 299,999,999+ guns in the country? How do so many of those fall into criminal hands?They got them from Eric Holder.
Geezzus, guy you are so friggin dense it must be painful to be in the same room with you.
HOW? Please be specific.
Harder to get guns = less guns
Of course, this country's way passed that. Hell, we even have people who practically worship guns.
So again, the best defence of the 2nd amendment is that it's so easy for criminals to get guns in this country, that citizens are better off having a gun of their own.
80 million legal gun owners should have their non-infringable rights infringed because criminals won't obey the law?
Makes perfect sense.
To no one.
That is one per 15,000
How is it that you say so little of relevance with so many words?"So...how did this convicted felon stockpile all these weapons?
So...how is it that you keep starting threads that fail as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy – this thread being one of countless examples.
ALL licensed gun dealers MUST preform background checks even at Gunshows you retard. THAT is the law. Further almost all firearms sold at gunshows come from LICENSED Dealers. Also a fact. But you dumb asses keep ignoring facts and make shit up.Sooo...all those gun laws aimed at law abiding citizens work....at harrassing law abiding citizens and making it harder, and in some cases impossible, for them to own or carry guns....
Criminals....not really affected by all those gun laws...case in point....
Sighting of massive gun cache leads to arrest of fugitive
Officers and federal agents later secured a search warrant and seized more than 400 firearms — many converted into machine guns — scrap parts to modify a gun’s action to automatic, and more than 20,000 rounds.
“I am very disturbed about the number and the types of weapons seized by our officers,” Jones said. “This represents the types of weapons patrol officers encounter on a daily basis and reinforces law enforcement’s need to have the proper tools to protect themselves and the community.”
“This is a significant arrest that takes hundreds of dangerous military-grade firearms off the streets and keeps them out of the wrong hands,” he added.
A background check revealed that Durant was arrested in 2013 by U.S. Marshals in Mesa, Arizona. He was wanted for escaping a prison program in South Dakota in 1997.
He was convicted in federal court in 1991 of unlawful possession and transfer of automatic weapons.
A convicted felon....and he had fully automatic weapons in the mix of 400.....
--do you think he passed a mandatory background check for those weapons...
--do you think he has a federal license to own machine guns....
--do you think he has a license for those guns
--do you think he limited himself to only 10 round magazines...
--do you think he registered all those guns....
OH MY!
And he's a felon to boot? OH MY!
He got all those guns even without a background check? MY OH MY!
Could it be that perhaps, maybe this criminal and felon got around that technicality somehow?
You know like the Gun show loophole that the 2A'ers and NRA just gotta have where the dealers at these shows don't have to do jack shit on a buyers background except to be sure the CASH is not counterfeit?
From Fontana, CA its not far to the gun shows from the Central Valley South or those in AZ or NV. And I'm sure there are lots of underground customers in SoCal to make that a profitable enterprise for crooks. Gun show prices for weapons are a lot lower that black market prices for obvious reasons.
But to get butt hurt over the downside of the gun show loophole the 2A'ers and NRA have blocked repeatedly from becoming law is really no reason to act like the gun law nutters are being put upon! Life's a bitch then you die!
If they are licensed gun dealers, and if they use their business in that manner to sell at gun shows in the State in which they're licensed, and if they don't sell to straw buyers under the table or otherwise, yeah! If you're claiming ALL DEALERS have to perform the same background checks as those licensed dealers in their licensing State at gun shows then you're full of shit!
So 'splain to me why the 2A'ers and the NRA have fought so bloody hard to keep gun show sales exempted from background checks for each transaction, if as you imply, most sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers!
I'm fine with others exercising the 2A rights, but I don't believe those rights extend to dealers at gun shows to break the law and sell to straw buyers to supply weapons to criminals. If you feel otherwise, then you're an IDIOT!
The straw buyers should be arrested.Where did he get those guns?Sooo...all those gun laws aimed at law abiding citizens work....at harrassing law abiding citizens and making it harder, and in some cases impossible, for them to own or carry guns....
Criminals....not really affected by all those gun laws...case in point....
Sighting of massive gun cache leads to arrest of fugitive
Officers and federal agents later secured a search warrant and seized more than 400 firearms — many converted into machine guns — scrap parts to modify a gun’s action to automatic, and more than 20,000 rounds.
“I am very disturbed about the number and the types of weapons seized by our officers,” Jones said. “This represents the types of weapons patrol officers encounter on a daily basis and reinforces law enforcement’s need to have the proper tools to protect themselves and the community.”
“This is a significant arrest that takes hundreds of dangerous military-grade firearms off the streets and keeps them out of the wrong hands,” he added.
A background check revealed that Durant was arrested in 2013 by U.S. Marshals in Mesa, Arizona. He was wanted for escaping a prison program in South Dakota in 1997.
He was convicted in federal court in 1991 of unlawful possession and transfer of automatic weapons.
A convicted felon....and he had fully automatic weapons in the mix of 400.....
--do you think he passed a mandatory background check for those weapons...
--do you think he has a federal license to own machine guns....
--do you think he has a license for those guns
--do you think he limited himself to only 10 round magazines...
--do you think he registered all those guns....
We need to track where every gun goes from when it is manufactured, which distributor buys it, what dealer do they sell it to and who does he sell it to.
Great question. How does a felon buy bullets? We should know who originally purchased those bullets.
No we don't.....once a gun os stolen you can't fucking track it can you. and the criminal gets a straw buyer to buy guns...and the straw buyer reports them stolen...again, no use tracking something that is stolen dipshit.
all you have to do is exactly what they did here...catch the fucking felon with the illegal guns...and fucking arrest them.........easy.....and no need to license anyone or register anygun.....right?
This guy was caught. He is arrested because of the laws we already have.
did tracking the guns catch this guy.......no. they caught him like every other criminal.....they caught a break.
you guys have such a hard on for normal people who own guns you can't see straight.
do we need to force normal gun owners who sell guns to get background checks if they sell one of their guns so they can buy the latest model.....no.
You simply catch the criminal who bought the gun illegally and send them to jail......
why is that so hard for you morons to understand?
This guy was caught without licensing normal people...without registering any guns.....and he was caught....
if you licensed every gun owner in the country...you would not have caught this guy.
If you registered every gun in this country you would not have caught this guy.
so there is no point in licensing normal gun owners or registering any guns.
was told that they don't do it for the public a couple of times, so I just went with the sale since the guy seemed straight. That still bugs me though.Yes, a business owner is responsible for running background checks but a private seller is not.At the beginning I thought the same thing what Ernie is saying background checks etc. in order to buy a gun. Then one night I was watching CNN (I thought last year) Situation Room where Ed Lavandera went to a gun show in Texas or Arizona where he bought 4 ( not sure what kind ) big guns without any ID or any questions just cash. Then outside the gun show 2 Hispanic men trying to buy the guns. I think the loophole is worse than what people think.
A month later I went to a gun show in Costa Mesa, Ca when I'm inside I asked couple dealers. I want to buy a gun but I don't want any background check and pay cash. One dealer told me he cannot do that even if I quadruple the price then he turned around. Other dealer told me I should go to other state but did not specify and he was nice to tell me to go away.
I'm having a problem attaching the link so this is just a screen shot from Google.
Not sure how that is a loophole, since the person who doesn't have an FFL is not in business to sell guns and so needs no license.
If gun control zealots would cooperate with gun owners, I think that a national gun license ID could be set up where if you get the license you agree to selling with background checks done, and can concealed carry to any state like a national CCW and buy and sell like an FFL holder, that would get through Congress.
If you don't want the national CCW, you don't have to get it and things are still the same for you, but I bet most serious gun owners would get one.
they don't deserve anything....there is no need to license gun owners even for selling guns. normal people are not the police....it is not their job to interrogate other citizens......or run background checks on them.
the criminal knows if they buy a gun or not...and they can already be arrested...right now, under existing law.
and comcelaed carry should already be possible in all the states...it is a Right, and Rights do not stop at the border of particular states.
I would like a means to do a background check on people I sell to. I have lied a number of times because the dude looked a bit too sketchy for my tastes, but I hate lyhing. I would prefer to be able to go to Gander Mountain and say, 'I need a background check done on this guy who wants to buy my Winchester 300' and have a right to ask them to do it. I would also like to have concealed carry nationwide which should also be the case already according to the Constitution. If I could get a nonbusiness version of an FFL and national CCW, I would gladly do the background checks.
Go to your local police depatrmemt...
did hou ask The gun stores if they would do a background check?
OH MY!
And he's a felon to boot? OH MY!
He got all those guns even without a background check? MY OH MY!
Could it be that perhaps, maybe this criminal and felon got around that technicality somehow?
You know like the Gun show loophole that the 2A'ers and NRA just gotta have where the dealers at these shows don't have to do jack shit on a buyers background except to be sure the CASH is not counterfeit?
From Fontana, CA its not far to the gun shows from the Central Valley South or those in AZ or NV. And I'm sure there are lots of underground customers in SoCal to make that a profitable enterprise for crooks. Gun show prices for weapons are a lot lower that black market prices for obvious reasons.
But to get butt hurt over the downside of the gun show loophole the 2A'ers and NRA have blocked repeatedly from becoming law is really no reason to act like the gun law nutters are being put upon! Life's a bitch then you die!
Hey bed wetter...
I have to realize that since you're a complete blithering imbecile, you feel compelled to comment on things you know nothing about. It doesn't take a lot of high tech skills or machines to stamp out receivers that can't be traced. All you need is some sheet metal, bar stock steel and rivets along with a lathe, drill press, some files and someone can turn out dozens of full auto weapons in their garage.
There are people in Pakistan with some lingering neanderthal DNA who spin out full auto weapons that are just as reliable as any mass produced ones. It takes them much longer but I have come across these guns in Afghanistan myself.
Since you have no idea where this dude got his shit, you just regurgitate the reactionary moonbat line about "gun show loopholes" just like you're programmed too.
Thanks for being predictable.
Instead of going off half cocked and making yourself look the fool, you really should have READ AND UNDERSTOOD what I wrote and to which you replied instead of taking a pie in the face! Get much exercise jumping to conclusions or straying?
Did I write this:
"Could it be that perhaps, maybe this criminal and felon got around that technicality somehow?"
Or this:
"You know like the Gun show loophole that the 2A'ers and NRA just gotta have where the dealers at these shows don't have to do jack shit on a buyers background except to be sure the CASH is not counterfeit?"
I proposed a possible and most likely source for that huge stash of weapons. Ever hear of the principle of Occam's Razor? The simplest way to obtain weapons legally and in quantity for cash is at gun shows!
You, on the other hand, spin off into loony land and start talking about something else going on in Pakistan with essentially no relevance to the OP. The reactionary is that jerk looking back at you in the mirror, shit for brains!
you want to catch illegal buyers and sellers at gun shows...cops already know what to do....you send in undercover cops to buy and sell and catch the criminals....no need for universal background checks.......and your welcome....providing simple solutions for anti gun extremists is easy....making them understand them is impossible.....
NO! You put everyone at the same level, and get every dealer at a gun show to perform a background check. If the dealer, ANY DEALER doesn't have the wherewithal to conform to the lawful regulations for sale of firearms then they don't sell at that show.
Simply remove the loophole. That would eliminate the straw buyers and criminals from getting firearms if the sellers at the gun shows followed the law. Your suggestion is absurd and shifts the burden from the seller/buyer at sale to State and Federal officials so the NRA remains happy and costs be damned!
Probably bought them from private sellers or a gun show.
Who knows? But that's the point. Who knows this guy's background without a check.
OH MY!
And he's a felon to boot? OH MY!
He got all those guns even without a background check? MY OH MY!
Could it be that perhaps, maybe this criminal and felon got around that technicality somehow?
You know like the Gun show loophole that the 2A'ers and NRA just gotta have where the dealers at these shows don't have to do jack shit on a buyers background except to be sure the CASH is not counterfeit?
From Fontana, CA its not far to the gun shows from the Central Valley South or those in AZ or NV. And I'm sure there are lots of underground customers in SoCal to make that a profitable enterprise for crooks. Gun show prices for weapons are a lot lower that black market prices for obvious reasons.
But to get butt hurt over the downside of the gun show loophole the 2A'ers and NRA have blocked repeatedly from becoming law is really no reason to act like the gun law nutters are being put upon! Life's a bitch then you die!
Hey bed wetter...
I have to realize that since you're a complete blithering imbecile, you feel compelled to comment on things you know nothing about. It doesn't take a lot of high tech skills or machines to stamp out receivers that can't be traced. All you need is some sheet metal, bar stock steel and rivets along with a lathe, drill press, some files and someone can turn out dozens of full auto weapons in their garage.
There are people in Pakistan with some lingering neanderthal DNA who spin out full auto weapons that are just as reliable as any mass produced ones. It takes them much longer but I have come across these guns in Afghanistan myself.
Since you have no idea where this dude got his shit, you just regurgitate the reactionary moonbat line about "gun show loopholes" just like you're programmed too.
Thanks for being predictable.
Instead of going off half cocked and making yourself look the fool, you really should have READ AND UNDERSTOOD what I wrote and to which you replied instead of taking a pie in the face! Get much exercise jumping to conclusions or straying?
Did I write this:
"Could it be that perhaps, maybe this criminal and felon got around that technicality somehow?"
Or this:
"You know like the Gun show loophole that the 2A'ers and NRA just gotta have where the dealers at these shows don't have to do jack shit on a buyers background except to be sure the CASH is not counterfeit?"
I proposed a possible and most likely source for that huge stash of weapons. Ever hear of the principle of Occam's Razor? The simplest way to obtain weapons legally and in quantity for cash is at gun shows!
You, on the other hand, spin off into loony land and start talking about something else going on in Pakistan with essentially no relevance to the OP. The reactionary is that jerk looking back at you in the mirror, shit for brains!
you want to catch illegal buyers and sellers at gun shows...cops already know what to do....you send in undercover cops to buy and sell and catch the criminals....no need for universal background checks.......and your welcome....providing simple solutions for anti gun extremists is easy....making them understand them is impossible.....
NO! You put everyone at the same level, and get every dealer at a gun show to perform a background check. If the dealer, ANY DEALER doesn't have the wherewithal to conform to the lawful regulations for sale of firearms then they don't sell at that show.
Simply remove the loophole. That would eliminate the straw buyers and criminals from getting firearms if the sellers at the gun shows followed the law. Your suggestion is absurd and shifts the burden from the seller/buyer at sale to State and Federal officials so the NRA remains happy and costs be damned!
That would eliminate the straw buyers and criminals from getting firearms if the sellers at the gun shows followed the law
ALL licensed gun dealers MUST preform background checks even at Gunshows you retard. THAT is the law. Further almost all firearms sold at gunshows come from LICENSED Dealers. Also a fact. But you dumb asses keep ignoring facts and make shit up.Sooo...all those gun laws aimed at law abiding citizens work....at harrassing law abiding citizens and making it harder, and in some cases impossible, for them to own or carry guns....
Criminals....not really affected by all those gun laws...case in point....
Sighting of massive gun cache leads to arrest of fugitive
Officers and federal agents later secured a search warrant and seized more than 400 firearms — many converted into machine guns — scrap parts to modify a gun’s action to automatic, and more than 20,000 rounds.
“I am very disturbed about the number and the types of weapons seized by our officers,” Jones said. “This represents the types of weapons patrol officers encounter on a daily basis and reinforces law enforcement’s need to have the proper tools to protect themselves and the community.”
“This is a significant arrest that takes hundreds of dangerous military-grade firearms off the streets and keeps them out of the wrong hands,” he added.
A background check revealed that Durant was arrested in 2013 by U.S. Marshals in Mesa, Arizona. He was wanted for escaping a prison program in South Dakota in 1997.
He was convicted in federal court in 1991 of unlawful possession and transfer of automatic weapons.
A convicted felon....and he had fully automatic weapons in the mix of 400.....
--do you think he passed a mandatory background check for those weapons...
--do you think he has a federal license to own machine guns....
--do you think he has a license for those guns
--do you think he limited himself to only 10 round magazines...
--do you think he registered all those guns....
OH MY!
And he's a felon to boot? OH MY!
He got all those guns even without a background check? MY OH MY!
Could it be that perhaps, maybe this criminal and felon got around that technicality somehow?
You know like the Gun show loophole that the 2A'ers and NRA just gotta have where the dealers at these shows don't have to do jack shit on a buyers background except to be sure the CASH is not counterfeit?
From Fontana, CA its not far to the gun shows from the Central Valley South or those in AZ or NV. And I'm sure there are lots of underground customers in SoCal to make that a profitable enterprise for crooks. Gun show prices for weapons are a lot lower that black market prices for obvious reasons.
But to get butt hurt over the downside of the gun show loophole the 2A'ers and NRA have blocked repeatedly from becoming law is really no reason to act like the gun law nutters are being put upon! Life's a bitch then you die!
If they are licensed gun dealers, and if they use their business in that manner to sell at gun shows in the State in which they're licensed, and if they don't sell to straw buyers under the table or otherwise, yeah! If you're claiming ALL DEALERS have to perform the same background checks as those licensed dealers in their licensing State at gun shows then you're full of shit!
So 'splain to me why the 2A'ers and the NRA have fought so bloody hard to keep gun show sales exempted from background checks for each transaction, if as you imply, most sellers at gun shows are licensed dealers!
I'm fine with others exercising the 2A rights, but I don't believe those rights extend to dealers at gun shows to break the law and sell to straw buyers to supply weapons to criminals. If you feel otherwise, then you're an IDIOT!
The NRA is the marketing concern for the gun manufacturers. Without background checks you can sell more guns. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!
The straw buyers should be arrested.Where did he get those guns?Sooo...all those gun laws aimed at law abiding citizens work....at harrassing law abiding citizens and making it harder, and in some cases impossible, for them to own or carry guns....
Criminals....not really affected by all those gun laws...case in point....
Sighting of massive gun cache leads to arrest of fugitive
Officers and federal agents later secured a search warrant and seized more than 400 firearms — many converted into machine guns — scrap parts to modify a gun’s action to automatic, and more than 20,000 rounds.
“I am very disturbed about the number and the types of weapons seized by our officers,” Jones said. “This represents the types of weapons patrol officers encounter on a daily basis and reinforces law enforcement’s need to have the proper tools to protect themselves and the community.”
“This is a significant arrest that takes hundreds of dangerous military-grade firearms off the streets and keeps them out of the wrong hands,” he added.
A background check revealed that Durant was arrested in 2013 by U.S. Marshals in Mesa, Arizona. He was wanted for escaping a prison program in South Dakota in 1997.
He was convicted in federal court in 1991 of unlawful possession and transfer of automatic weapons.
A convicted felon....and he had fully automatic weapons in the mix of 400.....
--do you think he passed a mandatory background check for those weapons...
--do you think he has a federal license to own machine guns....
--do you think he has a license for those guns
--do you think he limited himself to only 10 round magazines...
--do you think he registered all those guns....
We need to track where every gun goes from when it is manufactured, which distributor buys it, what dealer do they sell it to and who does he sell it to.
Great question. How does a felon buy bullets? We should know who originally purchased those bullets.
No we don't.....once a gun os stolen you can't fucking track it can you. and the criminal gets a straw buyer to buy guns...and the straw buyer reports them stolen...again, no use tracking something that is stolen dipshit.
all you have to do is exactly what they did here...catch the fucking felon with the illegal guns...and fucking arrest them.........easy.....and no need to license anyone or register anygun.....right?
This guy was caught. He is arrested because of the laws we already have.
did tracking the guns catch this guy.......no. they caught him like every other criminal.....they caught a break.
you guys have such a hard on for normal people who own guns you can't see straight.
do we need to force normal gun owners who sell guns to get background checks if they sell one of their guns so they can buy the latest model.....no.
You simply catch the criminal who bought the gun illegally and send them to jail......
why is that so hard for you morons to understand?
This guy was caught without licensing normal people...without registering any guns.....and he was caught....
if you licensed every gun owner in the country...you would not have caught this guy.
If you registered every gun in this country you would not have caught this guy.
so there is no point in licensing normal gun owners or registering any guns.
I have privately bought and sold guns for 45 years. Any gun I sold was to someone who I knew. I am considering getting an FFL. If I do, I will be doing background checks on all sales.
At any rate, if Mr. Holder doesn't care who's buying guns, why should I?
How will UBCs prevent people from selling guns to those they know cannot legally own them?The point is, without universal checks, there is no way to know who is buying.
Yawn.Where did he get those guns?
We need to track where every gun goes from when it is manufactured, which distributor buys it, what dealer do they sell it to and who does he sell it to.
Great question. How does a felon buy bullets? We should know who originally purchased those bullets.
You do know that federal laws apply at gun shows just like they do everywhere else -- right?Probably bought them from private sellers or a gun show.
Who knows? But that's the point. Who knows this guy's background without a check.
I saw the local news last night and quite an impressive armory. Maybe he bought them from gun shows to gun shows. As far as I know there are about 6 locations where gun shows are being held in southern ca. and probably maybe more that I'm not aware.
300,000,000 gun in the US.So what if I can prove there's a significant amount of gun crime in this country? Will you support increased background checks?
So... when are you going to answer his question?"So...how did this convicted felon stockpile all these weapons?
So...how is it that you keep starting threads that fail as a confusion of correlation and causation fallacy – this thread being one of countless examples.
How will UBCs prevent people from selling guns to those they know cannot legally own them?The point is, without universal checks, there is no way to know who is buying.
How can the state enforce the requirement to run a check on someone you want to sell a gun to?
You did not answer my questions.So no additional layer of law is better than adding one?How will UBCs prevent people from selling guns to those they know cannot legally own them?The point is, without universal checks, there is no way to know who is buying.
How can the state enforce the requirement to run a check on someone you want to sell a gun to?
