So let's stipulate that Obama didn't lie.....So What?

[NYcarbineer]

If the ACA turns out to be a net benefit to the American people regarding their healthcare, if it is in fact an improvement over the pre-ACA state of healthcare, that's all that matters.

The lying is irrelevant, because politicians lying is part of the game.

You can't make this shit up.

Please do not procreate....

Let's just do one Republican.

Mitt Romney LYING about Obamacare:

Here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says 'Obamacare' adds trillions to the deficit

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney: Obama 'only president' to cut Medicare

and here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney repeats claim that repealing health law saves $95 billion a year

and here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says up to 20 million will lose health insurance due to Obama health care law

and here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...mney/romney-says-only-obama-has-cut-medicare/

and here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...omney-says-barack-obama-ending-medicare-we-k/

and here:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-calls-obamas-health-care-law-government-tak/

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney says his health care bill affected far smaller percentage of people than Obama's

and that's just some examples of ONE Republican lying about Obamacare. Now what did you want to contest about what I said?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The ACA will in fact lead to a rationing of health care in this country...just as it has in other countries like Canada. Calling THAT death panels however is overkill and something I never felt was necessary. ObamaCare was obviously unworkable as constituted. Why employ hyperbole to point that out? Simply state the facts. Anyone with eighth grade math skills can figure out that the numbers don't work.

Once again, Carbineer...I asked you a very simple question. If the ACA is going to be so wonderful...then why did Obama, Reid and Pelosi feel the need to lie about it?

So you admit that the GOP lied about death panels. For starters. That proves my original point.

He admitted no such thing. Look up "hyperbole" and get back to us.

No GOP leader lied about Obamacare. Not one promised that if you like your plan you can keep your plan. That was Democrats.

So the president was only using hyperbole when he said everyone could keep their plan?

Since at least for 90% of Americans that was true...

You're saying now that the president only exaggerated (hyperbolized) by a few percentage points, therefore it wasn't a lie,

since hyperboles are not lies?

Are you sure that's what you want to say?

lolol

 

[Antares]

If the ACA turns out to be a net benefit to the American people regarding their healthcare, if it is in fact an improvement over the pre-ACA state of healthcare, that's all that matters.

The lying is irrelevant, because politicians lying is part of the game.

You can't make this shit up.

Please do not procreate....

Let's just do one Republican.

Mitt Romney LYING about Obamacare:

Here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says 'Obamacare' adds trillions to the deficit

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney: Obama 'only president' to cut Medicare

and here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney repeats claim that repealing health law saves $95 billion a year

and here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says up to 20 million will lose health insurance due to Obama health care law

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney says only Obama has cut Medicare

and here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says Barack Obama is ?ending Medicare as we know it.?

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney calls Obama's health care law a government takeover

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney says his health care bill affected far smaller percentage of people than Obama's

and that's just some examples of ONE Republican lying about Obamacare. Now what did you want to contest about what I said?

LOL.....the fact that you said ALL Politicians lie and that if they are lying for our own good it's ok.

That is manifestly an assinine thing to say...and if that is what you would teach your procreattions the world is a better place without them.

You do know that millions ARE losing their HC Plans don't you....and that that is PRECISELY what the PRESIDENT lied about.

Serioulsy Carb....you have serious ethical issues....ethics are not morally relative.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you admit that the GOP lied about death panels. For starters. That proves my original point.

He admitted no such thing. Look up "hyperbole" and get back to us.

No GOP leader lied about Obamacare. Not one promised that if you like your plan you can keep your plan. That was Democrats.

So the president was only using hyperbole when he said everyone could keep their plan?

Since at least for 90% of Americans that was true...

You're saying now that the president only exaggerated (hyperbolized) by a few percentage points, therefore it wasn't a lie,

since hyperboles are not lies?

Are you sure that's what you want to say?

lolol

No the president outright lied. Know the difference.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You can't make this shit up.

Please do not procreate....

Let's just do one Republican.

Mitt Romney LYING about Obamacare:

Here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says 'Obamacare' adds trillions to the deficit

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney: Obama 'only president' to cut Medicare

and here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney repeats claim that repealing health law saves $95 billion a year

and here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says up to 20 million will lose health insurance due to Obama health care law

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney says only Obama has cut Medicare

and here:

PolitiFact | Mitt Romney says Barack Obama is ?ending Medicare as we know it.?

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney calls Obama's health care law a government takeover

and here:

PolitiFact | Romney says his health care bill affected far smaller percentage of people than Obama's

and that's just some examples of ONE Republican lying about Obamacare. Now what did you want to contest about what I said?

LOL.....the fact that you said ALL Politicians lie and that if they are lying for our own good it's ok.

That is manifestly an assinine thing to say...and if that is what you would teach your procreattions the world is a better place without them.

You do know that millions ARE losing their HC Plans don't you....and that that is PRECISELY what the PRESIDENT lied about.

Serioulsy Carb....you have serious ethical issues....ethics are not morally relative.

Then you never vote for a politician if you know he or she has lied?

 

[Oldstyle]

Rightwing nuts here deny the truth I post here every day even when it is fully supported, documented, and irrefutable.

So cite the times I ever said that Harry Reid was telling the absolute truth when he wasn't.

YOU have just admitted that Barry, Harry and Nancy lied about the ACA, Carbineer and I simply pointed out that YOU have spent the better part of five years accusing conservatives of lying about this issue when in FACT it was liberals like yourself that lied about it all along.

So what's your response? You want me to cite the times you said Harry Reid was telling the absolute truth? Seriously? How about you address the LIES that Harry Reid told and that you provided unquestioning support of? The fact is...you DIDN'T post the truth...you posted lies.

Show me where I lied about it.

Dude, hasn't it dawned on you yet that every time you came here and parroted the lies of Barry, Harry and Nancy that you were in fact not telling the truth? You've been doing it for over FIVE YEARS!!!

 

[Oldstyle]

If Obamacare was so easily proven to be terrible, why did Republicans feel the need to lie about such things as 'death panels'?

Show me the list of GOP politicians who have been absolutely honest about Obamacare.

The ACA will in fact lead to a rationing of health care in this country...just as it has in other countries like Canada. Calling THAT death panels however is overkill and something I never felt was necessary. ObamaCare was obviously unworkable as constituted. Why employ hyperbole to point that out? Simply state the facts. Anyone with eighth grade math skills can figure out that the numbers don't work.

Once again, Carbineer...I asked you a very simple question. If the ACA is going to be so wonderful...then why did Obama, Reid and Pelosi feel the need to lie about it?

So you admit that the GOP lied about death panels. For starters. That proves my original point.

No, I simply pointed out that calling the panels that will necessarily have to be created to ration health care "death panels" was overkill and unnecessary. ObamaCare was bad legislation. There was no need to over dramatize it. Simply point out why it's bad legislation, why it won't work and why progressives that were pushing it were lying to us.

 

[Oldstyle]

So you admit that the GOP lied about death panels. For starters. That proves my original point.

He admitted no such thing. Look up "hyperbole" and get back to us.

No GOP leader lied about Obamacare. Not one promised that if you like your plan you can keep your plan. That was Democrats.

So the president was only using hyperbole when he said everyone could keep their plan?

Since at least for 90% of Americans that was true...

You're saying now that the president only exaggerated (hyperbolized) by a few percentage points, therefore it wasn't a lie,

since hyperboles are not lies?

Are you sure that's what you want to say?

lolol

What we're SAYING is that the President wasn't being honest when he made the repeated claim that anyone that liked their healthcare plan could keep their healthcare plan...PERIOD! Barack Obama KNEW that wasn't the case. Barack Obama KNEW that millions of Americans would be losing healthcare plans that they liked. Obama lied to the American people time and time again because he thought the end justified the means. That's simply a fact...albeit one that you refuse to admit because by doing so you would be forced to admit that you were complicit in the telling of those lies.

 

[NYcarbineer]

He admitted no such thing. Look up "hyperbole" and get back to us.

No GOP leader lied about Obamacare. Not one promised that if you like your plan you can keep your plan. That was Democrats.

So the president was only using hyperbole when he said everyone could keep their plan?

Since at least for 90% of Americans that was true...

You're saying now that the president only exaggerated (hyperbolized) by a few percentage points, therefore it wasn't a lie,

since hyperboles are not lies?

Are you sure that's what you want to say?

lolol

No the president outright lied. Know the difference.

So, when Sarah Palin said that the death panels were going to deny children like Trig healthcare,

that wasn't a lie?

jeezus lol.

 

[NYcarbineer]

He admitted no such thing. Look up "hyperbole" and get back to us.

No GOP leader lied about Obamacare. Not one promised that if you like your plan you can keep your plan. That was Democrats.

So the president was only using hyperbole when he said everyone could keep their plan?

Since at least for 90% of Americans that was true...

You're saying now that the president only exaggerated (hyperbolized) by a few percentage points, therefore it wasn't a lie,

since hyperboles are not lies?

Are you sure that's what you want to say?

lolol

What we're SAYING is that the President wasn't being honest when he made the repeated claim that anyone that liked their healthcare plan could keep their healthcare plan...PERIOD! Barack Obama KNEW that wasn't the case. Barack Obama KNEW that millions of Americans would be losing healthcare plans that they liked. Obama lied to the American people time and time again because he thought the end justified the means. That's simply a fact...albeit one that you refuse to admit because by doing so you would be forced to admit that you were complicit in the telling of those lies.

You're complicit in the lies of everyone who lied in opposition to Obamacare then.

 

[NYcarbineer]

YOU have just admitted that Barry, Harry and Nancy lied about the ACA, Carbineer and I simply pointed out that YOU have spent the better part of five years accusing conservatives of lying about this issue when in FACT it was liberals like yourself that lied about it all along.

So what's your response? You want me to cite the times you said Harry Reid was telling the absolute truth? Seriously? How about you address the LIES that Harry Reid told and that you provided unquestioning support of? The fact is...you DIDN'T post the truth...you posted lies.

Show me where I lied about it.

Dude, hasn't it dawned on you yet that every time you came here and parroted the lies of Barry, Harry and Nancy that you were in fact not telling the truth? You've been doing it for over FIVE YEARS!!!

Show me where I lied, that's all I'm asking.

 

[The Rabbi]

So the president was only using hyperbole when he said everyone could keep their plan?

Since at least for 90% of Americans that was true...

You're saying now that the president only exaggerated (hyperbolized) by a few percentage points, therefore it wasn't a lie,

since hyperboles are not lies?

Are you sure that's what you want to say?

lolol

No the president outright lied. Know the difference.

So, when Sarah Palin said that the death panels were going to deny children like Trig healthcare,

that wasn't a lie?

jeezus lol.

No, that's actually true. Obamacare by necessity will result in rationed care. This is not only logical based on economics, it is the result of every other similar care system in the world.
When Obama said "if you like your plan you can keep your plan" not only was that a lie. He knew it was a lie when he said it.

 

[Katzndogz]

What I find telling is that Carbineer was here day after day, week after week, month after month, declaring that it was Barack Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi that were telling us the truth about the Affordable Care Act and that it was those terrible Republicans that were lying about it!

Now he's back here admitting that Barry, Harry and Nancy were the ones who were lying all along...but it's "OK" because the end justifies the means.

So tell me, Carbineer...how much credence should we put in YOUR version of what is true and not true?

Rightwing nuts here deny the truth I post here every day even when it is fully supported, documented, and irrefutable.

So cite the times I ever said that Harry Reid was telling the absolute truth when he wasn't.

YOU have just admitted that Barry, Harry and Nancy lied about the ACA, Carbineer and I simply pointed out that YOU have spent the better part of five years accusing conservatives of lying about this issue when in FACT it was liberals like yourself that lied about it all along.

So what's your response? You want me to cite the times you said Harry Reid was telling the absolute truth? Seriously? How about you address the LIES that Harry Reid told and that you provided unquestioning support of? The fact is...you DIDN'T post the truth...you posted lies.

To democrats the ends justify the means. Government run health care is so important, that if the only way they can get it is by lying, then lying it is.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No the president outright lied. Know the difference.

So, when Sarah Palin said that the death panels were going to deny children like Trig healthcare,

that wasn't a lie?

jeezus lol.

No, that's actually true. Obamacare by necessity will result in rationed care. This is not only logical based on economics, it is the result of every other similar care system in the world.
When Obama said "if you like your plan you can keep your plan" not only was that a lie. He knew it was a lie when he said it.

See, this is what normal America is up against - the infestation of mental cases like you.

So Obamacare provides for denying healthcare to Down Syndrome children because they aren't as valuable to society because of their condition.

That is your position.

ANYONE here want to agree with this loon?

 

[Antares]

Show me where I lied about it.

Dude, hasn't it dawned on you yet that every time you came here and parroted the lies of Barry, Harry and Nancy that you were in fact not telling the truth? You've been doing it for over FIVE YEARS!!!

Show me where I lied, that's all I'm asking.

You lied everytime you said Barry didn't lie.
You lied when you said it was ok to lie if you thought it was "for the greater good".

You lied when you said Insurance Companies were responsible for the old plans going away and that it was out of pure greed.

You lie every time you type.

 

[NYcarbineer]

He admitted no such thing. Look up "hyperbole" and get back to us.

No GOP leader lied about Obamacare. Not one promised that if you like your plan you can keep your plan. That was Democrats.

So the president was only using hyperbole when he said everyone could keep their plan?

Since at least for 90% of Americans that was true...

You're saying now that the president only exaggerated (hyperbolized) by a few percentage points, therefore it wasn't a lie,

since hyperboles are not lies?

Are you sure that's what you want to say?

lolol

What we're SAYING is that the President wasn't being honest when he made the repeated claim that anyone that liked their healthcare plan could keep their healthcare plan...PERIOD! Barack Obama KNEW that wasn't the case. Barack Obama KNEW that millions of Americans would be losing healthcare plans that they liked. Obama lied to the American people time and time again because he thought the end justified the means. That's simply a fact...albeit one that you refuse to admit because by doing so you would be forced to admit that you were complicit in the telling of those lies.

Why would I be complicit? Especially given that 3 years ago I was saying things like this about the bill:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1923097-post62.html

You need to learn to have the decency not to make up shit about people.

 

[The Rabbi]

So, when Sarah Palin said that the death panels were going to deny children like Trig healthcare,

that wasn't a lie?

jeezus lol.

No, that's actually true. Obamacare by necessity will result in rationed care. This is not only logical based on economics, it is the result of every other similar care system in the world.
When Obama said "if you like your plan you can keep your plan" not only was that a lie. He knew it was a lie when he said it.

See, this is what normal America is up against - the infestation of mental cases like you.

So Obamacare provides for denying healthcare to Down Syndrome children because they aren't as valuable to society because of their condition.

That is your position.

ANYONE here want to agree with this loon?

That would be Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of Rahm, and advisor to the President.
Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, Obama's top health care advisor, advocates denying care to elderly and disabled - Washington DC Catholic Living | Examiner.com

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Let's NOT stipulate that the liar didn't lie -- since he fucking plainly DID lie.

 

[oreo]

It's always good to examine the facts over and over again in a case that grows to the confligration levels such as the ACA has fostered in this particular instance of poltical implosion.

1.) Let's stipulate that prior to the ACA that there was a problem with spiraling Health care costs....because there was and still is.

2.) Let's stipulate that had the Insurance companies not engaged in many shady practices for a few decades prior to the ACA debate that the ACA would probably never have gotten off the ground legislatively. Remember that Hillary tried this unsucessfully twenty years ago and back then the problems with insurance and healthcare costs were just beginning.

3.) Let's stipulate that Obama sincerely miscalculated the size of the cancelation wave of policies that had been established after the law was passed and that he did not foresee the backlash even among his own party members as this law began to take effect. Let's throw in some Insurance company villainy for good measure and say that they took the opportunity to shove it up his poop shoot.... even if it's not totally justified...just sayin..

Let's take these positions and Give the Super Left wing shill-Rag, Salon, a smidgeon of credit for their undying dedication to their super-hero in chief Obama.

No, Obama didn?t lie to you about your health care plan - Salon.com

My Question is.... So What?

Something just happened that caused shock and surprise amongst many millions of unsuspecting Insurance customers and this effect is just beginning and is on it's way to gettiing much worse. Remember that the employer mandate is still coming with it's wave of cancelations that will hit a fresh bunch of highly pissed off people of all poltical parties.

Let's stipulate that the ACA does and will allow policies that were established prior to the passage of the law to remain intact and that it was the stupidity of the dumbass American people who missed that important point when the Great one was making his history making speeches that include the now and forever infamous " If you like your policy you can keep it " gaffe.......

Once again my question is...So what??

Annnnnd.....what does it mean to be a leader? To show poltical and national leadership? Could that possibly mean not leading your constituents ( both sympathetic and unsympathetic constituents because that's what the job means) into a blind alley even if you didn't mean to do it? Is it possible that the American people are upset becuse they percieve an epoch failure in Presidential leadership here? Is it possible that fixing that sore could mean taking some extra time to explain things thoroughly even if you suck at explanations??..hear, hear!!..... Maybe foregoing one of those super expensive vacations or putting off a couple rounds of golf to make it at least look like you give at least one, teenie-tiny flying fu~ck? Yeah...how about that one huh??...I mean can we spare the time? Are we inconveniencing you Mr President...sir??

But that my friends this is not easy! Especially if you don't really give a flying fu~ck. It is very difficult to face a nation full of dummies...especially if that's the way you really feel about them and tell them that the huge mistake that was just made was really their own STUPID fault. Saying otherwise would be hypocrisy and we all know what that means dummies now don't we?? ( heh heh heh ...this is exactly the conundrum that the Dems are in now )

Remember that the New Deal and the Great Society are the two major social vehicles for the cultivation and proliferation of ....well.... Dummies ..... but I digress!

" Look we are really sorry that we didn't see this coming ( failure number one if it's true ) but we never promised that you could keep " Bad Apple " insurance and if that's what you thought then well...your just dumbasses! Soooo We will posture an apology for courtesy sake but we didn't reaaaaaally make any mistakes ( wink wink ) and it's not our fault that your collective IQ's are less than that of a common garden variety tomato.

Thanks and now you've gone and made me late for my Tee time!

JO

PS...

I think there is more to discover about Obama's promises..what he knew, what his office knew, and what they actually expected would happen. In the final analysis if the American people feel they were lied to....then...well....they were lied to.

Elections have consequences....and so do decisions.

Obama lied to the American public over 40 times. We have him on video--doing it. "If you like your policy, you can keep it--PERIOD.

WTF are you talking about?

If someone else had perpetrated such a FRAUD as Obamacare--using lies and distortion as Obama has repeatedly done--they would have already been led off in handcuffs and now facing multiple criminal charges.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E]"If you like your plan, you can keep your plan." - Barack Obama - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Oldstyle]

So the president was only using hyperbole when he said everyone could keep their plan?

Since at least for 90% of Americans that was true...

You're saying now that the president only exaggerated (hyperbolized) by a few percentage points, therefore it wasn't a lie,

since hyperboles are not lies?

Are you sure that's what you want to say?

lolol

What we're SAYING is that the President wasn't being honest when he made the repeated claim that anyone that liked their healthcare plan could keep their healthcare plan...PERIOD! Barack Obama KNEW that wasn't the case. Barack Obama KNEW that millions of Americans would be losing healthcare plans that they liked. Obama lied to the American people time and time again because he thought the end justified the means. That's simply a fact...albeit one that you refuse to admit because by doing so you would be forced to admit that you were complicit in the telling of those lies.

You're complicit in the lies of everyone who lied in opposition to Obamacare then.

Can't bring yourself to admit that you were on here day after day pushing those lies...can you, Carbineer?

I could have told you WAY BACK THEN that sooner or later those chickens were going to come home to roost and they have.

Now your choices are stark...

You can either admit that you knew all along that the people behind the ACA were lying...and you lied yourself to further what they were trying to accomplish.

Or...

You can admit that you were clueless that you were being a shill for a bunch of dishonest politicians and that you were naive and ignorant...not dishonest.

So which is it?