So now, BUSH caused ISIS?

[JoeB131]

Take your simplistic Zionist excuses and shove them up your ass. The only thing the Zionists are doing is patching up the wounded and keeping IRAN from moving in. Assad is not to8 far gone if we started to help him against 4 or 5 of our mutual enemies.. The FSA is never gonna govern anything there. But thats not for us to decide. Our only involvement is to make certain ANOTHER void isnt created by our shitty policies....

The Zionists have been pushing an anti-Assad policy since the civil war began. and that's the problem. Assad and the Iranians were probalby the only force bringing stablity to that region. But the Zionists and the Turks and the Saudis all backed the radicals, and now ISIL has come out on top.

Did you miss when AIPAC sent out 2500 Lobbyists to try to get Washington to bomb Assad in 2013? Good thing that didn't happen, or the black flag would be flying over Damascus right now.

 

[Rexx Taylor]

next thing u know, they will blame bush for 911 and pearl haba.

 

[JoeB131]

look people, if all you want is a MAN dead (or captured) you do NOT have to wasted a trillion $ or kill thousands of people. All you have to do is sic a SEAL team on them. but there's 2 problems with that, when you are a US president. One problem is that it won't generate a lot of biz money (which wars DO) and two, it can just as easily be done to YOU (after you are no longer president).

Actually, there are a lot more good reasons to do it than that.

The first is, taking out one guy doesn't take out the machine he built. Had we assassinated Saddam, Uday or Qusay would have just taken over.

Secondly, once you decide whacking heads of state is an acceptable method of policy, then it become equally acceptable for a foreign country to whack your head of state.

That's why in WWII, when the Wehrmacht hatched the idiotic plan to assassinate Hitler, Churchill and FDR rejected their overtures.

(Also, Tom Cruise is nuts.)

 

[Darkwind]

Darkw 11517248

However, I am not about to rehash Iraq for the 35,000 time with people who have already made up their minds.

If you do not wish to rehash Iraq then do not make false claims about Iraq and the current conditions there such as this:

Darkw 11517218

. Bush himself warned about the creation of ISIS if we pulled out too precipitously and without a proper status of forces agreement.

.

The creation of ISIS had nothing to do with the Bush43 / Maliki 2008 agreement to pull all troops out over the next three years. As was noted, ISIS was formed in 2006 and grew more powerful in Syria prior to waging the assault into Iraq Sunni regions they pulled off a year ago.

When you bring up misleading and erroneous commentary about the present its not rehashing Bush's dumb invasion of Iraq in 2003 at all.

The only false claims being made about Iraq come from the radicalized left.

They feel compelled to lie about events and assign motives to people to justify their cowardice.

 

[Boss]

The Arabs have a stranglehold on the oil market?.....Ahh boy...
The uninformed sound off again....Jeez.
Which awful environmental consequences?
Accidents happen....Do you drive a car? Ever been in a swimming pool? Use a toaster? been caught in a thunderstorm?
If risk averse people like you ran the country we'd be living in hovels......eating stone soup

As opposed to stupid people like you, who happily send poor kids off to die for rich people.

Seriously. Fuck you.

You're the "stupid people" as you've clearly demonstrated here. First of all, we don't round up poor kids and put them in the Army to go fight wars for rich people. That's apparently something that happens in the Liberal Utopian Universe and not the normal one. In the normal universe, young men and women VOLUNTEER to serve their country and they are aware that this may involve deployment where their lives may be at risk and people may shoot at them. Secondly, voters don't send anyone to war... Congress does that, and only Congress has that authority according to the Constitution.

You are a textbook example of someone who has been brainwashed by propaganda. I honestly don't know if there is a way to deprogram you at this point, I am hoping we can avoid having to put you down like a rabid dog.

Congress has absolutely no Authority to send troops to war. You have no idea what you're talking about and are quite obviously ignorant about what powers the Constitution does grant. The president is the designated the "Commander-in-Chief" of the non-militia federal armed forces, establishing him/her as the decider to send troops into war. Congress's role is to declare war and fund the military.

Congress has absolutely no Authority to send troops to war.

Nominated for dumbest thing a liberal has said so far today! Go read your fucking Constitution again, bucko!

Ok, I looked again. Nowhere in the Constitution does it authorize Congress to send troops to war.

That is the role of the president.

Congress can only declare war and fund the military.

And guess what -- even if Congress declares war, the president is under no Constitutional obligation to send even a single troop to fight in said declared war. Do you even realize if that were to happen, the Congress has no Constitutional authority to send any troops to war.

You are truly mind-numbingly senile. Though, I do appreciate you demonstrating that since that sheds a bright light on much of the rest of the nonsense you've been spewing.

Well it's in two parts-- Article II Section 2:

The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states.

And Article I Section 8:
[The Congress shall have power}
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, ;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

It does not take a Constitutional scholar to see the president doesn't have the authority to "send troops to war" without express consent from Congress. It takes TWO keys to start the war machine. Now... technically, I suppose the president acting as CinC could order the military to go invade Switzerland and confiscate all their chocolate for Michelle... then just obfuscate, spin, lie and manipulate as long as possible while constitutional lawyers had cows... that could happen.. most likely in the liberal Utopian universe and not the normal one.

But let's get back to where this sidebar started... Congress (you say) was lied to by Bush to authorize his use of force... so why didn't Congress repeal what they voted for? Why did Congress continue to fund the war? That's the part that hangs you by your britches on this... IF BUSH LIED, why did Congress not repeal the authorization, halt the funding and call for articles of impeachment on Bush for lying to Congress? Not only did none of that happen, pretty much the opposite happened... they funded everything, they approved additional funding, they sent more troops when requested, and Bush won re-election.

You see, the dirty little secret here is, only a very small minority of radical liberals were anit-Iraq/anti-war. They were very loud and proud but simply didn't have the numbers to prevent us going to war. Once at war, we encountered high casualties in Fallujah, and the public began to turn on the war. Eventually the radicals gained enough support to become politically effective but the damage was already done. So you trotted out Obama with his promises to end the wars and close Gitmo... completely abandon everything we've done the past decade and embark on a liberal "apology tour" around the world. We've now done that for 8 years, with the exception of closing Gitmo which you discovered wasn't as easy as you thought, and the result is ISIS and a stronger presence of radical Islam than ever before.

 

[Boss]

well if Bush caused ISIS, then who caused that Gerbil debacle with Richard Gere? Monica Lewinsky?

Did Ru Paul cause Caitlyn Jenner?

 

[Boss]

ou're the "stupid people" as you've clearly demonstrated here. First of all, we don't round up poor kids and put them in the Army to go fight wars for rich people.

Of course we don't. We promise them college scholarships that never happen.

That's apparently something that happens in the Liberal Utopian Universe and not the normal one.

Actually, in a sensible liberal coutnry, we draft the children of the rich to fight right along the children of the poor, and oddly, the rich suddenly become a LOT MORE SELECTIVE about what wars are "worth it".

In the normal universe, young men and women VOLUNTEER to serve their country and they are aware that this may involve deployment where their lives may be at risk and people may shoot at them.

But that's part of the problem. When you have a military establishment where the average citizens aren't committed, it becomes too easy to go to war. "Well, my kid's not going!"

You are a textbook example of someone who has been brainwashed by propaganda. I honestly don't know if there is a way to deprogram you at this point, I am hoping we can avoid having to put you down like a rabid dog.

Frankly, you are the one foaming at the mouth. And I used to be right wing until I realized how full of shit you all are.

But there WERE WMDs, we found tons of depleted ones. He hadn't had time to produce fresh ones due to UNSCOM and sanctions, but all kinds of raw materials and empty missile heads went to Syria along with the technology for production.

Guy, we did not go to war over some depleted mustard gas that was b uried in 1991. We went to war because Saddam supposedly had nukes and Anthrax.

No one ever told Bush anything was "a terrible idea." General Colin Powell warned Bush, "If you break it, you buy it." Simply meaning, if you invade Iraq, you own the consequences. As for Bush and Cheney's military records, it doesn't matter... they were legitimately elected by the people just like Obama who has no military record.

General Shinkisi told Bush he needed 500,000 troops to secure the country, which we didn't have. He was ignored and forced to step down.

And, no, the people voted for Al Gore. Bush and his cronies stole the election.

We're worse off now because we gave up the fight and abandoned the War on Terror. In 2008, our strategy changed to the liberal democrat strategy of diplomacy, negotiation, sticking our heads in the sand and ignoring the problems until they bite us in the ass. Obama was going to "talk to them" and make things right... Kerry went over there to spread good will and negotiate peace. Now it's all blowing up in his stupid mashed potato face just like everyone warned would happen. And predictably, when it all goes tits up, you find a way to spin it into the fault of Bush and Republicans.

Obama did exactly what the people want and still want- to get the hell out of that mess.

If anyone ever wants to know what Liberal Droning looks like.....

 

[Rexx Taylor]

well if Bush caused ISIS, then who caused that Gerbil debacle with Richard Gere? Monica Lewinsky?

Did Ru Paul cause Caitlyn Jenner?

I still want to know who caused New Coke in 1986? my life was almost over when they took real coke off the shelves!

 

[flacaltenn]

Take your simplistic Zionist excuses and shove them up your ass. The only thing the Zionists are doing is patching up the wounded and keeping IRAN from moving in. Assad is not to8 far gone if we started to help him against 4 or 5 of our mutual enemies.. The FSA is never gonna govern anything there. But thats not for us to decide. Our only involvement is to make certain ANOTHER void isnt created by our shitty policies....

The Zionists have been pushing an anti-Assad policy since the civil war began. and that's the problem. Assad and the Iranians were probalby the only force bringing stablity to that region. But the Zionists and the Turks and the Saudis all backed the radicals, and now ISIL has come out on top.

Did you miss when AIPAC sent out 2500 Lobbyists to try to get Washington to bomb Assad in 2013? Good thing that didn't happen, or the black flag would be flying over Damascus right now.

Hiding behind conspiracies is a lazy habit. Wish I could slack off like that and blame everything on blacks or Democrats. Soo you major dipstick,,,, Hilliary and the dictator in chief are part of the Zionist conspiracy? Or they are just powerless to resist. Last I heard it was KERRY lobbying to bomb Assad as soon as he took charge.. Lot of fucking Zionists around. Have you checked your laundry room?

 

[flacaltenn]

next thing u know, they will blame bush for 911 and pearl haba.

Thought that was already done..

 

[flacaltenn]

Take your simplistic Zionist excuses and shove them up your ass. The only thing the Zionists are doing is patching up the wounded and keeping IRAN from moving in. Assad is not to8 far gone if we started to help him against 4 or 5 of our mutual enemies.. The FSA is never gonna govern anything there. But thats not for us to decide. Our only involvement is to make certain ANOTHER void isnt created by our shitty policies....

The Zionists have been pushing an anti-Assad policy since the civil war began. and that's the problem. Assad and the Iranians were probalby the only force bringing stablity to that region. But the Zionists and the Turks and the Saudis all backed the radicals, and now ISIL has come out on top.

Did you miss when AIPAC sent out 2500 Lobbyists to try to get Washington to bomb Assad in 2013? Good thing that didn't happen, or the black flag would be flying over Damascus right now.

This is not a rhetorical question. Would really appreciate an answer. If you had 5 next door neighbors who have threatened your family, and suddenly they all start to kill each other What would YOU do?

I know that I would feed them, patch up their wounds, and send them back next door to finish the job. Zionists are not as stupid as the leaders we elect in this country...,,,

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Darkw 11595161

The only false claims being made about Iraq come from the radicalized left. They feel compelled to lie about events and assign motives to people to justify their cowardice.

I challenged a specific claim you just made about what Bush supposedly predicted about Iraq. You have provided no specific false claim from the so called radical left. Do you have a person in mind and a false claim about Iraq that is a bit more specific than the rubbish you just tossed out.

But if you can't even attempt to defend what you claimed Bush43 predicted then we all left right and center can see that you certainly must know that what you wrote cannot be verified with an actual quote.

That means in this forum you are the one who put up a false claim, so according to your recent claim yo must be representing the radical left.

Why not just admit you were wrong?

And why did you avoid my question about Bush wanting Tony Blair to invade Iraq with him?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The Arabs have a stranglehold on the oil market?.....Ahh boy...
The uninformed sound off again....Jeez.
Which awful environmental consequences?
Accidents happen....Do you drive a car? Ever been in a swimming pool? Use a toaster? been caught in a thunderstorm?
If risk averse people like you ran the country we'd be living in hovels......eating stone soup

As opposed to stupid people like you, who happily send poor kids off to die for rich people.

Seriously. Fuck you.

HA!!!
I win!.....
Seriously.....
I asked you questions.....You FAILED.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well no, we've already proven you are factually inaccurate. Regime change in Iraq was a matter of legal US foreign policy since 1998, two years before Bush took office.

Bush didn't fuck anything up except the "lead-up" to the war. He shouldn't have wasted all the time with the UN and resolutions, or trying to get liberal democrats on board. If he had nailed Saddam hard and unexpectedly, I imagine we would have found the WMDs and more.

No, the fucked up mess that is currently our ME foreign policy is the fault of Obama, Kerry and Hillary Clinton... and that case will be made during this election cycle.

Uh, no, guy. there were no WMD's. Never were.

The thing was, his OWN GENERALS told him invading Iraq was a terrible idea.

But this POS who couldn't even show up to National Guard Drills and his crooked Veep who got five deferrments decided these decorated career soldiers didn't know what they were talking about and invaded anyway.

And now we are a lot worse off.

Sarin Gas which Hussein used to kill over one million Kurds is now NOT on Joe's list of WMD's?....
Newsflash.....ALL chemical and biological weapons are classified as weapons of mass destruction. ALL of them....Oh..WMD's with Iraqi markings are being uncovered in Syria..
So now you're a Saddam Hussein sympathizer?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The better solution would have been to lower the sanctions and leave Sadam Hussein in power. All the Europeans had already reached that conclusion. Just like the better decision right now would be to stop villifying Assad in Syria and assist in cleaning up that insurrection with a couple guarantees from Assad on NOT purging the real freedom fighters that are the tiny minority of the conflict there.

Uh, the thing is, Assad is too far gone. He's probably gone in the next six months, and we are going to see a partition of the country between the Free Syrian Army and the ISIL.

Which is what the Zionists wanted.

Why do we keep letting them dictate policy again?

HUH.....Who specifically are "the Zionists"? And what is the pending interest in a partitioned Syria?
From where do you get this shit? Box of Cracker Jack?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Yes, Bush caused this...

What are the Islamic State's origins?

The group that calls itself the Islamic State can trace its lineage to the aftermath of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, in 2003. The Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi aligned his Jama’at al-Tawhidw’al-Jihad with al-Qaeda, making it al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI).

Zarqawi’s organization took aim at U.S. forces (PDF), their international allies, and local collaborators. It sought to draw the United States into a sectarian civil war by attacking Shias and their holy sites, including the Imam al-Askari shrine, in 2006, and provoking them to retaliate against Sunnis.

Zarqawi was killed in a U.S. airstrike that year. The emergence of the U.S.-backed Awakening, or Sons of Iraq, coalitions further weakened AQI as Sunni tribesmen reconciled with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s Shia-led government. Zarqawi’s successors rebranded AQI as the Islamic State of Iraq and later, the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS), referring to a territory that roughly corresponds with the Levant, reflecting broadened ambitions as the 2011 uprising in Syria created opportunities for AQI to expand. The group is known to its followers as il-Dawla (“the State”) and its Arabic-speaking detractors as Daesh, the Arabic equivalent of the acronym ISIS.

The Islamic State’s current leader, the self-proclaimed caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, spent time in U.S.-run prisons in Iraq. Cells organized in them, along with remnants of Saddam Hussein’s ousted secular-nationalist Ba’ath party, make up some of the Islamic State’s ranks.

http://www.cfr.org/iraq/islamic-state/p14811

Lots of opinions.

Your pathetically weak and vapid response is dismissed as the useless noise it was meant to be. Thanks for playin' though.

Who rattled your cage.....get back to pulling weeds and don;t stop until your told to do so...
I really get a kick out of you drive by interlopers who have nothing to add to the discussion. Yet feel compelled to get involved in some way even if it is as insipid as your post above.

 

[thereisnospoon]

i thought dan quale caused ISIS

Isn't that the guy who invented the internet? Or was he the one who couldn't spell it?

Yes , but you are always the smartest person in the room, aren't you?

 

[Rexx Taylor]

i thought dan quale caused ISIS

Isn't that the guy who invented the internet? Or was he the one who couldn't spell it?

Yes , but you are always the smartest person in the room, aren't you?

ok, lets get our inventors straight!, Thomas Edison invented electricity and macaroni, al gore invented the internet and polar bear floats, Thomas Crapper invented the toilet, Sam Watchman invented time and the watch, and finally, Bill Clinton invented the 12 speed vibrator,,right?

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Islam caused Isis. It's in the name. Everything they do is 'justified' by the Koran.

 

[HR Pufnstuf]

My question is this:
Bush has been gone for seven years now. When does the Bush blame game end and when does President Obama have to take some responsibility for his own actions? It seems to me that the Obama supporters are all too willing to relive the Bush Presidency and give Obama a pass on everything.