So...Trump’s now going after legal immigrants.

[Ray From Cleveland]

[QUOTE="Kilroy2, post: 22919490, member: 71674
There is a vast difference between people who came here years ago and the people that come here today.

Okay you stated your position and that is fine

I would just respectfully disagree with the above quote with the following personal observation that even in the past and now in the present many come to improve their lives and the ultimate goal is to improve the lives of their children

That is the main reason they come, does that mean that they will turn down welfare - NO

Life it can be good to some and hell for others[/QUOTE]

Just because people come here to take our jobs doesn't mean they want to, or are going to become Americans. It means they found yet another way to take advantage of all we worked for.

Many of them wire money back over the border to their family. Immigrants years ago seldom did that. They virtually separated themselves from everybody in their home country to pursue the dream of becoming an American citizen.

And this is why statistics show that Hispanics who are here legally and new citizens support border control, because there are some who carry the dream that other immigrants have in the past; do things legally, go through the red tape, and leave your country behind.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Has anyone thought of this simple fix? Go back to the way it was when us dastardly Europeans immigrated to this country. That is when you had to be sponsored by an upstanding citizen, you had to have the promise of a job and show that you would not be a burden to this country. Also you had to undergo a health screen and if you failed, back you went.
It was a good idea then and should be followed now

If we really wanted to solve this problem, Congress would make being here illegally a first degree felony punishable by a minimum of five years in prison. It would not only chase the people who are currently here illegally out of the country, but prevent new intruders from entering.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Unless you are Native American we are ALL immigrants.

No, our ancestors may have been immigrants, but we are not.

 

[WillowTree]

Why do you care more about Immigrants than you do Americans?

Unless you are Native American we are ALL immigrants.

And with every successive wave of immigrants there were people already here claiming that the "bus is full"

So you don’t think America should have borders or laws! Got it.

No where did I say anything remotely like that ya fuckin idiot

Everything you say adds up to that dipshit!

 

[WillowTree]

Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes

How much do they pay in payroll taxes?

Who knows

Its pretty much controlled by the employer who withholds the tax from pay and then they the employer pays a payroll tax

Who knows

The guy who claimed, "Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes" doesn't know?

The question was about payroll taxes and how much is paid

yeah I don't know how much illegal aliens pay but I do now that Business that hire are required to withhold payroll taxes from all and any employee

here's some info


If all undocumented immigrants were deported today, next year’s Social Security trust funds would have approximately $13 billion less for benefit payouts. It’s a considerable loss of dollars, especially when it’s projected that the Social Security funds will be depleted by 2034.


According to New American Economy, undocumented immigrants contributed $13 billion into the Social Security funds in 2016 and $3 billion to Medicare. Three years prior, the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration, Stephen Goss, wrote a report that estimated undocumented immigrants contributed $12 billion into Social Security.

Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits - Marketplace

Then kick them out and raise our SS and Medicare contributions for employers and employees.

Just kick them out. The money we save on supporting their asses will make up the differences.

 

[Coyote]

Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes

They do jobs that most legal will not do or to lazy to do and even when some people are on welfare, Hispanics, Blacks, Asians and others also do well and make money and thus improve the economy

My question to you is should the Statue of Liberty be dismantled

still an oxford study that looks at the effects of immigration in the U.S. between 1850 and 1920 — aka the Age of Mass Migration — and its effect on economy prosperity today. And they found that the counties with more historical immigration have overall higher incomes, less poverty and less unemployment even today

Trump family being a prime example who came from Germany with very little money but look where they are at now

Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes

How much do they pay in payroll taxes?

Who knows

Its pretty much controlled by the employer who withholds the tax from pay and then they the employer pays a payroll tax

Who knows

The guy who claimed, "Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes" doesn't know?

The question was about payroll taxes and how much is paid

yeah I don't know how much illegal aliens pay but I do now that Business that hire are required to withhold payroll taxes from all and any employee

here's some info


If all undocumented immigrants were deported today, next year’s Social Security trust funds would have approximately $13 billion less for benefit payouts. It’s a considerable loss of dollars, especially when it’s projected that the Social Security funds will be depleted by 2034.


According to New American Economy, undocumented immigrants contributed $13 billion into the Social Security funds in 2016 and $3 billion to Medicare. Three years prior, the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration, Stephen Goss, wrote a report that estimated undocumented immigrants contributed $12 billion into Social Security.

Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits - Marketplace

Sounds like American citizens are stealing from Illegal immigrants.

 

[Kilroy2]

I'm indifferent to whom they are an expense to as long as it is NOT an American citizen.

My question remains unanswered. What programs do you advocate for helping these people become self-sufficient citizens?

This means they are not a burden on anyone.[/QUOTE]

Some American citizens do not see it as a burden

They see it as a human thing to do

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes

How much do they pay in payroll taxes?

Who knows

Its pretty much controlled by the employer who withholds the tax from pay and then they the employer pays a payroll tax

Who knows

The guy who claimed, "Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes" doesn't know?

The question was about payroll taxes and how much is paid

yeah I don't know how much illegal aliens pay but I do now that Business that hire are required to withhold payroll taxes from all and any employee

here's some info


If all undocumented immigrants were deported today, next year’s Social Security trust funds would have approximately $13 billion less for benefit payouts. It’s a considerable loss of dollars, especially when it’s projected that the Social Security funds will be depleted by 2034.


According to New American Economy, undocumented immigrants contributed $13 billion into the Social Security funds in 2016 and $3 billion to Medicare. Three years prior, the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration, Stephen Goss, wrote a report that estimated undocumented immigrants contributed $12 billion into Social Security.

Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits - Marketplace

Sounds like American citizens are stealing from Illegal immigrants.

Sounds like American citizens are stealing from Illegal immigrants.

We're awful!!!

We need to send them all home, for their own good.

 

[WillowTree]

Poor wittlle illegals. Oh boo fuckin whooooo.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes

How much do they pay in payroll taxes?

Who knows

Its pretty much controlled by the employer who withholds the tax from pay and then they the employer pays a payroll tax

Who knows

The guy who claimed, "Illegal aliens are required and do pay taxes" doesn't know?

The question was about payroll taxes and how much is paid

yeah I don't know how much illegal aliens pay but I do now that Business that hire are required to withhold payroll taxes from all and any employee

here's some info


If all undocumented immigrants were deported today, next year’s Social Security trust funds would have approximately $13 billion less for benefit payouts. It’s a considerable loss of dollars, especially when it’s projected that the Social Security funds will be depleted by 2034.


According to New American Economy, undocumented immigrants contributed $13 billion into the Social Security funds in 2016 and $3 billion to Medicare. Three years prior, the Chief Actuary of the Social Security Administration, Stephen Goss, wrote a report that estimated undocumented immigrants contributed $12 billion into Social Security.

Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits - Marketplace

Sounds like American citizens are stealing from Illegal immigrants.

You are correct. This is awful. If I were them, I would march right out of this country the next day.

 

[Care4all]

What a piece of trash he is.

Proposed Trump rule change could put millions of legal immigrants at risk of deportation

Currently, immigrants who rely on, or are expected to rely on, the government for more than half of their income are considered “public charges” and can be banned from entering the country or deported, even if they’re otherwise eligible for extended residency.

Immigrants who rely completely on welfare programs or long-term Medicaid benefits are typically considered public charges, but the Trump administration wants to extend those guidelines to include immigrants who use public housing, subsidies to help pay for health insurance, food stamps, income tax credits, the Children's Health Insurance Program and non-emergency uses of Medicaid, according to a White House draft obtained by The Washington Post.

A recent study by The New England Journal of Medicine found that the changes “could have important consequences for access to medical care and the health of millions of immigrants and their families.” An estimated 1 million noncitizens would lose their insurance, the study found.

What programs or proposals have you or democrats promoted that would remove immigrants away from being a public charge into being productive and dignified citizens of the United States?

I cant speak for the Dems but for myself, and speaking only of legal immigrants, why does anything need to change?

Legal immigrants use fewer benefits thsn US citizens. They pay the same taxes for those benefits. They are entitled to fewer benefits.

Allow them a reasonable period of time to become aculturated, learn language skills, get employment. Encourage and fund community support programs. Many churches have refugee support programs.

If an immigrant is totally reliant on benefits for no good reason, for too long, he doesnt get a green card.

Well now, that is an interesting claim. Do they use fewer benefits? Strikes Me that they use the same benefits that Americans use. It isn't as if we have benefits for Americans and then we have a whole set of benefits for immigrants. They are one in the same. Of course, the key isn't the number of benefits that they use, but the fact that these benefits come from confiscated wages and incorporated profits taken from American's for the explicit reason of giving American's help in times of hardship. The truth is, they have paid no taxes into the system that they start using immediately.

I am not sure if you are aware, but acculturated is the past tense, So this means we have to give them benefits for something that has already occurred? Either way, you just highlighted something that used to be part of our immigration policy: The immigrant was responsible for knowing our culture, language, and values PRIOR to immigrating. They also used to have a job waiting for them before they were allowed entry into the country.

None of which directly addresses My question. We now have people who haven't paid into the system, who may or may not be paying into the system now but are definitely using the system to their benefit.

What proposal or program would you advocate for moving them into the category of productive, self-sufficient citizens of the United States?

BTW, aren't you part of that crowd that says immigration needs to be reformed, comprehensively? ('comprehensive' is code for opaque enough to justify any action taken by the government)

This is for green card holders, they are working and they are paying in to the system, as much as any other person that is the working poor. They have papers to work legally here.

They are not given help at the expense of any other poor person... they follow the same rules and guidelines.

they will be citizens in 5 years or less, from when they step foot here on their green card visa...

I'm indifferent to whom they are an expense to as long as it is NOT an American citizen.

My question remains unanswered. What programs do you advocate for helping these people become self-sufficient citizens?

This means they are not a burden on anyone.

As long as they are working, and here on a legal visa to become American citizens, I have no problem helping their kids get CHIPS health care or free lunches if their school provides them for other poor children, or food stamps if they qualify.... they are not eligible for Obamacare, not eligible for welfare TANF and other programs by law, but the ones they are eligible to receive, especially those green card holders that have an American born child, I am fine with my tax dollars going towards helping them.... as I have no problem with my tax dollars going towards helping American born families that are poor....

Lots of their kids grow up to be successful people and contribute in taxes from 18 and there on out, and their kids kids will too, just like anyone else on the block they live on. Some business owner that they work for is making a profit off of their labor, and that business's profit is taxed as well....

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What programs or proposals have you or democrats promoted that would remove immigrants away from being a public charge into being productive and dignified citizens of the United States?

I cant speak for the Dems but for myself, and speaking only of legal immigrants, why does anything need to change?

Legal immigrants use fewer benefits thsn US citizens. They pay the same taxes for those benefits. They are entitled to fewer benefits.

Allow them a reasonable period of time to become aculturated, learn language skills, get employment. Encourage and fund community support programs. Many churches have refugee support programs.

If an immigrant is totally reliant on benefits for no good reason, for too long, he doesnt get a green card.

Well now, that is an interesting claim. Do they use fewer benefits? Strikes Me that they use the same benefits that Americans use. It isn't as if we have benefits for Americans and then we have a whole set of benefits for immigrants. They are one in the same. Of course, the key isn't the number of benefits that they use, but the fact that these benefits come from confiscated wages and incorporated profits taken from American's for the explicit reason of giving American's help in times of hardship. The truth is, they have paid no taxes into the system that they start using immediately.

I am not sure if you are aware, but acculturated is the past tense, So this means we have to give them benefits for something that has already occurred? Either way, you just highlighted something that used to be part of our immigration policy: The immigrant was responsible for knowing our culture, language, and values PRIOR to immigrating. They also used to have a job waiting for them before they were allowed entry into the country.

None of which directly addresses My question. We now have people who haven't paid into the system, who may or may not be paying into the system now but are definitely using the system to their benefit.

What proposal or program would you advocate for moving them into the category of productive, self-sufficient citizens of the United States?

BTW, aren't you part of that crowd that says immigration needs to be reformed, comprehensively? ('comprehensive' is code for opaque enough to justify any action taken by the government)

This is for green card holders, they are working and they are paying in to the system, as much as any other person that is the working poor. They have papers to work legally here.

They are not given help at the expense of any other poor person... they follow the same rules and guidelines.

they will be citizens in 5 years or less, from when they step foot here on their green card visa...

I'm indifferent to whom they are an expense to as long as it is NOT an American citizen.

My question remains unanswered. What programs do you advocate for helping these people become self-sufficient citizens?

This means they are not a burden on anyone.

As long as they are working, and here on a legal visa to become American citizens, I have no problem helping their kids get CHIPS health care or free lunches if their school provides them for other poor children, or food stamps if they qualify.... they are not eligible for Obamacare, not eligible for welfare TANF and other programs by law, but the ones they are eligible to receive, especially those green card holders that have an American born child, I am fine with my tax dollars going towards helping them.... as I have no problem with my tax dollars going towards helping American born families that are poor....

Lots of their kids grow up to be successful people and contribute in taxes from 18 and there on out, and their kids kids will too, just like anyone else on the block they live on. Some business owner that they work for is making a profit off of their labor, and that business's profit is taxed as well....

You are pointing out the problem in your statement. We should not be accepting foreigners who need our help. When did we become the worlds welfare nation?

The only people that should be allowed in are those who can contribute to society---not withdraw from society. If you want to help those people, fine, send them money and food to where they are at, but don't invite them here.

Illegals may not qualify for our welfare, but their children do, and that costs us a lot of money between food and medical care; care some citizens can't get for their own children.

 

[Lesh]

"But we just oppose ILLEGAL immigrants"

That was a lie of course. Obvious to anyone who was paying attention

 

[Care4all]

I cant speak for the Dems but for myself, and speaking only of legal immigrants, why does anything need to change?

Legal immigrants use fewer benefits thsn US citizens. They pay the same taxes for those benefits. They are entitled to fewer benefits.

Allow them a reasonable period of time to become aculturated, learn language skills, get employment. Encourage and fund community support programs. Many churches have refugee support programs.

If an immigrant is totally reliant on benefits for no good reason, for too long, he doesnt get a green card.

Well now, that is an interesting claim. Do they use fewer benefits? Strikes Me that they use the same benefits that Americans use. It isn't as if we have benefits for Americans and then we have a whole set of benefits for immigrants. They are one in the same. Of course, the key isn't the number of benefits that they use, but the fact that these benefits come from confiscated wages and incorporated profits taken from American's for the explicit reason of giving American's help in times of hardship. The truth is, they have paid no taxes into the system that they start using immediately.

I am not sure if you are aware, but acculturated is the past tense, So this means we have to give them benefits for something that has already occurred? Either way, you just highlighted something that used to be part of our immigration policy: The immigrant was responsible for knowing our culture, language, and values PRIOR to immigrating. They also used to have a job waiting for them before they were allowed entry into the country.

None of which directly addresses My question. We now have people who haven't paid into the system, who may or may not be paying into the system now but are definitely using the system to their benefit.

What proposal or program would you advocate for moving them into the category of productive, self-sufficient citizens of the United States?

BTW, aren't you part of that crowd that says immigration needs to be reformed, comprehensively? ('comprehensive' is code for opaque enough to justify any action taken by the government)

This is for green card holders, they are working and they are paying in to the system, as much as any other person that is the working poor. They have papers to work legally here.

They are not given help at the expense of any other poor person... they follow the same rules and guidelines.

they will be citizens in 5 years or less, from when they step foot here on their green card visa...

I'm indifferent to whom they are an expense to as long as it is NOT an American citizen.

My question remains unanswered. What programs do you advocate for helping these people become self-sufficient citizens?

This means they are not a burden on anyone.

As long as they are working, and here on a legal visa to become American citizens, I have no problem helping their kids get CHIPS health care or free lunches if their school provides them for other poor children, or food stamps if they qualify.... they are not eligible for Obamacare, not eligible for welfare TANF and other programs by law, but the ones they are eligible to receive, especially those green card holders that have an American born child, I am fine with my tax dollars going towards helping them.... as I have no problem with my tax dollars going towards helping American born families that are poor....

Lots of their kids grow up to be successful people and contribute in taxes from 18 and there on out, and their kids kids will too, just like anyone else on the block they live on. Some business owner that they work for is making a profit off of their labor, and that business's profit is taxed as well....

You are pointing out the problem in your statement. We should not be accepting foreigners who need our help. When did we become the worlds welfare nation?

The only people that should be allowed in are those who can contribute to society---not withdraw from society. If you want to help those people, fine, send them money and food to where they are at, but don't invite them here.

Illegals may not qualify for our welfare, but their children do, and that costs us a lot of money between food and medical care; care some citizens can't get for their own children.

Then a full time job, should pay enough for a man to support his family with essentials... as long as businesses do not pay their full time employees enough to live off of with the basics, then we the people will have to support THEIR laborers.... American born or not. The problem's root, is with the employers, not the full time workers imho.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well now, that is an interesting claim. Do they use fewer benefits? Strikes Me that they use the same benefits that Americans use. It isn't as if we have benefits for Americans and then we have a whole set of benefits for immigrants. They are one in the same. Of course, the key isn't the number of benefits that they use, but the fact that these benefits come from confiscated wages and incorporated profits taken from American's for the explicit reason of giving American's help in times of hardship. The truth is, they have paid no taxes into the system that they start using immediately.

I am not sure if you are aware, but acculturated is the past tense, So this means we have to give them benefits for something that has already occurred? Either way, you just highlighted something that used to be part of our immigration policy: The immigrant was responsible for knowing our culture, language, and values PRIOR to immigrating. They also used to have a job waiting for them before they were allowed entry into the country.

None of which directly addresses My question. We now have people who haven't paid into the system, who may or may not be paying into the system now but are definitely using the system to their benefit.

What proposal or program would you advocate for moving them into the category of productive, self-sufficient citizens of the United States?

BTW, aren't you part of that crowd that says immigration needs to be reformed, comprehensively? ('comprehensive' is code for opaque enough to justify any action taken by the government)

This is for green card holders, they are working and they are paying in to the system, as much as any other person that is the working poor. They have papers to work legally here.

They are not given help at the expense of any other poor person... they follow the same rules and guidelines.

they will be citizens in 5 years or less, from when they step foot here on their green card visa...

I'm indifferent to whom they are an expense to as long as it is NOT an American citizen.

My question remains unanswered. What programs do you advocate for helping these people become self-sufficient citizens?

This means they are not a burden on anyone.

As long as they are working, and here on a legal visa to become American citizens, I have no problem helping their kids get CHIPS health care or free lunches if their school provides them for other poor children, or food stamps if they qualify.... they are not eligible for Obamacare, not eligible for welfare TANF and other programs by law, but the ones they are eligible to receive, especially those green card holders that have an American born child, I am fine with my tax dollars going towards helping them.... as I have no problem with my tax dollars going towards helping American born families that are poor....

Lots of their kids grow up to be successful people and contribute in taxes from 18 and there on out, and their kids kids will too, just like anyone else on the block they live on. Some business owner that they work for is making a profit off of their labor, and that business's profit is taxed as well....

You are pointing out the problem in your statement. We should not be accepting foreigners who need our help. When did we become the worlds welfare nation?

The only people that should be allowed in are those who can contribute to society---not withdraw from society. If you want to help those people, fine, send them money and food to where they are at, but don't invite them here.

Illegals may not qualify for our welfare, but their children do, and that costs us a lot of money between food and medical care; care some citizens can't get for their own children.

Then a full time job, should pay enough for a man to support his family with essentials... as long as businesses do not pay their full time employees enough to live off of with the basics, then we the people will have to support THEIR laborers.... American born or not. The problem's root, is with the employers, not the full time workers imho.

I see. Well.......I support myself without taxpayer money. Am I lucky? Did government help me along? How did I do this miraculous thing that others cannot do?

Government nor employers determine what you are worth. You do that for yourself. If you don't want to be worth much to employers, that's on you. If you do want to be worth more, that's also on you.

If people are coming here and not able to provide a talent or skill that gives them the capability to support themselves and their family, then I don't want them here. It's not my problem, it's not the employers problem, it should be their problem.

As for Americans, we have a huge drug problem in this country, and many young people would rather work low wage jobs than to give up the dope to pass a drug test for a better paying job. My industry is short over 60,000 drivers we can't find. It's going to get worse as us baby boomers retire. Where are all these Americans looking for better paying jobs at? They are in the living room smoking pot with their friends, that's where they are.

 

[Correll]

"But we just oppose ILLEGAL immigrants"

That was a lie of course. Obvious to anyone who was paying attention

Some republicans oppose only illegal immigration.

Other oppose both.


Which part of that is too hard for you?

 

[Darkwind]

What programs or proposals have you or democrats promoted that would remove immigrants away from being a public charge into being productive and dignified citizens of the United States?

I cant speak for the Dems but for myself, and speaking only of legal immigrants, why does anything need to change?

Legal immigrants use fewer benefits thsn US citizens. They pay the same taxes for those benefits. They are entitled to fewer benefits.

Allow them a reasonable period of time to become aculturated, learn language skills, get employment. Encourage and fund community support programs. Many churches have refugee support programs.

If an immigrant is totally reliant on benefits for no good reason, for too long, he doesnt get a green card.

Well now, that is an interesting claim. Do they use fewer benefits? Strikes Me that they use the same benefits that Americans use. It isn't as if we have benefits for Americans and then we have a whole set of benefits for immigrants. They are one in the same. Of course, the key isn't the number of benefits that they use, but the fact that these benefits come from confiscated wages and incorporated profits taken from American's for the explicit reason of giving American's help in times of hardship. The truth is, they have paid no taxes into the system that they start using immediately.

I am not sure if you are aware, but acculturated is the past tense, So this means we have to give them benefits for something that has already occurred? Either way, you just highlighted something that used to be part of our immigration policy: The immigrant was responsible for knowing our culture, language, and values PRIOR to immigrating. They also used to have a job waiting for them before they were allowed entry into the country.

None of which directly addresses My question. We now have people who haven't paid into the system, who may or may not be paying into the system now but are definitely using the system to their benefit.

What proposal or program would you advocate for moving them into the category of productive, self-sufficient citizens of the United States?

BTW, aren't you part of that crowd that says immigration needs to be reformed, comprehensively? ('comprehensive' is code for opaque enough to justify any action taken by the government)

This is for green card holders, they are working and they are paying in to the system, as much as any other person that is the working poor. They have papers to work legally here.

They are not given help at the expense of any other poor person... they follow the same rules and guidelines.

they will be citizens in 5 years or less, from when they step foot here on their green card visa...

I'm indifferent to whom they are an expense to as long as it is NOT an American citizen.

My question remains unanswered. What programs do you advocate for helping these people become self-sufficient citizens?

This means they are not a burden on anyone.

As long as they are working, and here on a legal visa to become American citizens, I have no problem helping their kids get CHIPS health care or free lunches if their school provides them for other poor children, or food stamps if they qualify.... they are not eligible for Obamacare, not eligible for welfare TANF and other programs by law, but the ones they are eligible to receive, especially those green card holders that have an American born child, I am fine with my tax dollars going towards helping them.... as I have no problem with my tax dollars going towards helping American born families that are poor....

Lots of their kids grow up to be successful people and contribute in taxes from 18 and there on out, and their kids kids will too, just like anyone else on the block they live on. Some business owner that they work for is making a profit off of their labor, and that business's profit is taxed as well....

So you aren't for helping these people at all.

The best way to help people who require aid is to teach them and help them to become self-sufficient. Anything else shows a remarkable lack of compassion.