So what should Obama have done?

[Immanuel]

furthermore, many foreign vessels are working on this situation, already. the deepwater horizon is a foreign vessel. the jones act has to do with the origin and crew of boats shipping goods from one american port to another. that has little or nothing to do with the spill.

Exactly. Liarbility and his ilk would probably love to see the entire gulf coast destroyed so they could continue spreading lies. Bastards make me ill.

You know that I like you, but that is a low blow.

What on Earth did he say that would indicate he wanted the entire gulf coast destroyed?

They banned flights? Really?

Evidently they did, but then there may be very good reasons why they did:

0/5100 NOTAM Details

All aircraft operations are prohibited except those flights authorized by ATC, routine flights supporting offshore oil operations; federal, state, local and military flight operations supporting oil spill recovery and reconstitution efforts; and air medical and law enforcement operations.

1. All pilots operating within and near this area including the shoreline should exercise extreme caution due to the numerous low level operations associated with the deepwater horizon/mc-252 incident 3000 feet and below.

2. Aircraft involved in these operations may make sudden changes in direction, speed, and altitude. For additional information, participating aircraft altitude assignments and awareness, all pilots are recommended to review the following web site dedicated to the aviation cleanup efforts at: https://1afnorth.Region1.Ang.Af.Mil/deepwater_spill/default.Aspx

Its easy to think that this is simply to keep the press and the rest of us from pointing out that the government is hiding something, but then if you think about the massive clean up effort that should be going on, and may or may not be going on at the moment, then safety issues might play a very strong reason in regards to why this airspace is currently restricted.

Immie

On the other hand, this smacks of Soviet-style censorship. In America we expect to receive real news.
Well we used to.
Hope and change.

Like I said, it is easy to think that and I am not denying the possibility. However, safety for the men and women working to clean up the mess first.

Immie

 

[Liability]

And speaking now of the Jones Act, why HASN'T President "I'm in charge" Obama just simply and unilaterally already issued an Executive Order WAIVING the applicability of the Jones Act for the duration of this Ecological emergency and the related clean up efforts in the Gulf?

It would be supremely easy to do. He already HAS (as I noted when I quoted the relevant section of the law) been granted the authority to do exactly that. What the fuck is that schmuck waiting for?

Sign the EO, tell the Admiral all about it, give him a damn copy in fact, and that way if any other nation offers one of its ships and crews to help in this clean up effort, in whatever way the Admiral might need, nobody will have to worry about whether or not the Jones Act is an impediment.

Viola. Problem pre-solved.

Indeed, the President -- by the same stroke of his fucking pen -- could waive the possibly conflicting provisions of ANY OTHER laws which might impede the clean up efforts.

What's he waiting for?

 

[antagon]

again with the jones act garbage.

this is effectively a litmus test for gullibility and partisan bias.

I guess so.

I'm totally out-of-the-loop regarding foriegn aid and how its been received or not.

Do you know if its been offered or rejected for any reason?

the US does not accept aid by way of habit. not 9/11, not katrina, not the spill.

the jones act hype is a blogosphere contention which purports that a fed act which regs shipping between US ports has something to do with whether or not the US accepts aid from the 17 or so nations which have offered, or whether BP contracts from the hundreds of firms available.

the fact of the matter is that international vessels, including the deepwater horizon itself and skandi neptune, the norwegian ship responsible for the undersea video broadcasts all over the news, have been at the center of this mess from day one.

ignoring that to pursue a partisan agenda supported by blogger-sources makes a clear statement.

 

[Liability]

again with the jones act garbage.

this is effectively a litmus test for gullibility and partisan bias.

I guess so.

I'm totally out-of-the-loop regarding foriegn aid and how its been received or not.

Do you know if its been offered or rejected for any reason?

the US does not accept aid by way of habit. not 9/11, not katrina, not the spill.

the jones act hype is a blogosphere contention which purports that a fed act which regs shipping between US ports has something to do with whether or not the US accepts aid from the 17 or so nations which have offered, or whether BP contracts from the hundreds of firms available.

the fact of the matter is that international vessels, including the deepwater horizon itself and skandi neptune, the norwegian ship responsible for the undersea video broadcasts all over the news, have been at the center of this mess from day one.

ignoring that to pursue a partisan agenda supported by blogger-sources makes a clear statement.

The main statement being made here is that you are a rabid partisan hack.

If the Jones Act has not been an impediment to accepting aid from other nations and their ships and crews, then the statement of Coast Guard Lt. Commander Chris O’Neil must just have been a mistake. (I'm sure you can provide some link or source for how and why that statement is not what it appears to have been. )

But gee. For SOME reason, you and RavingLunatic seem not to want to confront that.

And just to make sure that nobody in the Government (or BP at the control of the government) "erroneously" interprets the Jones Act as a block to accepting offered assistance or ships, etc., then why not just have an Executive Order WAIVING the applicability of the Jones Act (and similar laws which might impede the clean up efforts) for the duration of the cleanup? At worst, it would be meaningless. But it MIGHT serve to avoid allowing red tape to screw up the clean-up efforts.

 

[Liability]

Here's an interesting little read:

U.S. not accepting foreign help on oil spill
Posted By Josh Rogin Thursday, May 6, 2010 - 10:52 AM Share

When State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley refused to tell reporters which countries have offered assistance to help respond to the BP oil spill, the State Department press corps was flabbergasted.

"As a policy matter, we're not going to identify those offers of assistance until we are able to see, you know, what we need, assess the ongoing situation. And as we accept those offers of assistance, we will inform you," Crowley said.

Reporters pointed out that the Bush administration identified assistance offers after the Katrina disaster, so what is this, a new policy? They pressed Crowley, but he refused to budge.

Then they mentioned Iran's offer of assistance, through its National Iranian Drilling Company. Crowley said there was no Iranian offer of assistance, at least in any official capacity. The reporters kept on it, asking why it was taking so long to figure out what was needed in the first place? That's the Coast Guard's decision, Crowley explained.

Late Wednesday evening, the State Department emailed reporters identifying the 13 entities that had offered the U.S. oil spill assistance. They were the governments of Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Republic of Korea, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations.

"These offers include experts in various aspects of oil spill impacts, research and technical expertise, booms, chemical oil dispersants, oil pumps, skimmers, and wildlife treatment," the email read.

"While there is no need right now that the U.S. cannot meet, the U.S. Coast Guard is assessing these offers of assistance to see if there will be something which we will need in the near future."

The Obama administration has been relentless in its messaging that it is doing everything possible to aggressively respond to the oil spill. But for the record, the current message to foreign governments is: Thanks but no thanks, we've got it covered.

A State Department official, speaking on background, said that the decision not to initially release the names of offering countries came directly from the State Department leadership.

U.S. not accepting foreign help on oil spill | The Cable

Out of curiosity, if the message is what it appears to be: "no thanks boys, but we have it covered," then WTF exactly ARE these Obama Administration assclowns actually DOING?

That's a LOT of fucking oil hitting lots of beaches on our Southern shores, you damn imbeciles. Exactly WHAT do "we" have so well "covered" that we can act so high and mighty in turning down offers of assistance? Fine. Turn down Iran. But why would we turn down an offer from France or Germany?

 

[boedicca]

The electoral map might explain Obama's disinterest in actually doing something, although one would think he'd at least be doing something for FL.

 

[Samson]

Sign the EO, tell the Admiral all about it, give him a damn copy in fact, and that way if any other nation offers one of its ships and crews to help in this clean up effort, in whatever way the Admiral might need, nobody will have to worry about whether or not the Jones Act is an impediment.

Viola. Problem pre-solved.

Indeed, the President -- by the same stroke of his fucking pen -- could waive the possibly conflicting provisions of ANY OTHER laws which might impede the clean up efforts.

What's he waiting for?

Um...since the Admiral had a similar supervisory role coordinating disaster relief after Katrina, and if Bush waived the Jones Act days after Katrina, I'd expect the Admiral is NOT the one that needs a copy of the statute.

My guess is the Admiral has probably asked them to move on it a long time ago, but was ignored by an administration that is obviously in well over its head. He had no recourse but to go to the media.

I predict the Admiral will soon be asked to walk the plank.

 

[Samson]

The electoral map might explain Obama's disinterest in actually doing something, although one would think he'd at least be doing something for FL.

It must be a comfort to know that if The Big One hits the Bay Area, Obama will be there to help you.

Do you have a spare room?

 

[boedicca]

I suspect he'd prefer to stay at the Getties' place.

 

[Samson]

I suspect he'd prefer to stay at the Getties' place.

Well, I know you'd be sad if he didn't even consider Chez Boe.

Maybe you should practice your Fried Chicken recipe, just in case?

 

[boedicca]

I hear he prefers Wagyu Beef medallions and argula.

 

[Samson]

I hear he prefers Wagyu Beef medallions and argula.

As I'm not in the Fan Club, I only can guess at his preference for Regular or Extra Crispy.

Is argula like really expensive mustard greens?

 

[Darkwind]

Some are criticizing Obama for not doing enough in response to the oil leak that BP created. (Of course, some of those same people are criticizing Obama for doing too much).
However, when I've asked many of these people what Obama should have done, they suddenly stop posting. So far, only one whiner has offered a suggestion, and it was.....get this... Obama should have put his boots on, and gone to LA to have his picture taken on a oil-stained beach wearing his boots.

So let's hear it you oil cleanup Einsteins? Are you going to wimp out like you usually do and not post in order to avoid having your ignorance and hateful hypocrisy revealed, or will display some strength of character and meet the challenge?

Really? You are this pathetic that you will shill for Obama given the fact that his job was to contain and keep the oil from getting to our shores first and worry about sending the bill to BP last.

Is this your position?

 

[Capitalist]

The Times reported:

A high-level British offer of help to clean up the Gulf of Mexico oil spill was rebuffed by America shortly after the accident, fuelling fresh fears of political tension between the two countries over the disaster.
A few days after the BP-leased rig sank on April 22, the Cabinet Office made a direct offer to the US State Department to airlift half of Britain’s 1,200-tonne stockpile of chemical dispersants, The Times has learnt.
At the time there was an urgent demand for fresh supplies. The offer to provide the chemicals, at the cost price of £3 million, was made through diplomatic channels and via the Civil Contingency Secretariat, the Government’s emergency planning unit.
A spokeswoman for the Department of Energy and Climate Change, which was also involved in drafting the plan, said that the US had chosen not to accept the offer. Officials said the US claimed that the chemicals held in Britain did not have the correct paperwork.
​

 

[antagon]

i think it is telling of our education system that so many americans lack the historical foundation to understand that for over 150 years the US has not sought foreign state-funded aid, help or support for causes in the western hemisphere from any states in europe as part of the wider-reaching implications of the monroe doctrine.

our 'thanks, but no thanks, we've got it covered' policy is pretty central to our history with respect to circumstances of need such as this and is evident from our civil war (save for southern separatists), clear through to modern tragedy in 9/11, and katrina.

nevertheless, whether through ignorance or partisan bias, some attribute this action to the current government (or bush's in katrina or 9/11). presuming that something like the jones act is preventing much needed foreign vessels from operating in the gulf for the purposes of repair, cleanup or mitigation would be validating of these claims.

to the contrary, this is the reality:

the rig in the foreground (ground? ) is the swiss-owned, singaporean laid, vanuatu registered development driller III
the red rig in the middle is the q4000, an american vessel directly over the spot where the korean made, british owned, marshalls registered deepwater horizon used to be. the boat to the left in the red is the boa sub c, a norwegian vessel that has been at work there since april 20. the other red vessel looks like skandi neptune, which has also been there from the jump.

you decide:

the skandi neptune, a norwegian laid and flagged vessel.

one of the vessels in blue are from american firm, oceaneering, the norweigian laid and flagged Ocean Intervention III. i could speculate that the sistership from the same firm is of similar origin, but i only know from here that these three were at sea as early as the 20th.

finally, the largest vessel colored to match its swiss owned/operated co-worker in the front is the discoverer enterprise, built in spain, flagged in the marshalls.

in light of this concerted, commercial, international effort to cap the broke rig last month, one might consider arguments that the jones act is impeding international response to be absolutely rediculous. the only impediment that i see is that there's only so much room for these big-ass ships to operate, and only a few companies have been contracted to do so in light of that. naturally this leaves a world of gracious declines of assistance - just the opportunity for a partisan spin-doctor to run with.

 

[Ravi]

Thanks for all the info, antagon.

Funny...no one ever said we were turning down help (besides the wingnuts), rather that our government was evaluating each offer for feasibility.

It is so easy to twist words...and the Obama bashers are masters at it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Thanks for all the info, antagon.

Funny...no one ever said we were turning down help (besides the wingnuts), rather that our government was evaluating each offer for feasibility.

It is so easy to twist words...and the Obama bashers are masters at it.

Take your head out of Obama's ass and perhaps you could see the truth.

Opposing Views: Obama Refuses to Waive Law to Allow Foreign Help With Oil Spil

According to Foreign Policy, thirteen entities had offered the U.S. oil spill assistance within about two weeks of the Horizon rig explosion. They were the governments of Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands
, Norway, Romania, Republic of Korea, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations.

The U.S. response - Thank you, but no thank you, we've got it.

"..While there is no need right now that the U.S. cannot meet, the U.S. Coast Guard is assessing these offers of assistance to see if there will be something which we will need in the near future."

Why Did The U.S. Refuse International Help on The Gulf Oil Spill? | Before It's News

 

[Ravi]

Your talking points don't match reality. In the case of just Norway, at least three of their ships have been helping since the day the platform blew.

I don't expect you to speak the truth...either because of stupidity or just dishonesty, it is impossible for you.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Your talking points don't match reality. In the case of just Norway, at least three of their ships have been helping since the day the platform blew.

I don't expect you to speak the truth...either because of stupidity or just dishonesty, it is impossible for you.

Link?

 

[antagon]

its a matter of state to state disaster aid in contrast to commercial contracts which are the responsibility of BP who's all committed to the fix. oceaneering, transocean(the swiss) and subsea 7(the norwegian boats, and a conglomerate of halliburton pedigree) are all existing BP contractors, of course. that they haven't intimately and directly involved their competitors and their contractors is understandable.

anyhow, deep water engineering is not a US dominated sector, and it is no mystery that with the international nature of the oil industry, that the majority of rigs are foreign to the US as are the ships which place and service them.