So...You Believe America is "Still Here"???

[PoliticalChic]

The result of the better part of a century of Leftist propaganda has produced Americans who believe this:
"...communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here.....
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph ..."
This, an actual post, from yesterday.





No....our way of government is long gone...if 'our government' refers to the United States as defined by the Constitution.

Leftist dupes have accepted exactly what totalitarians were selling....hate of success, individual liberty, business, profits, big government in control of every aspect of one's life.

The following is designed to give proof of this, and insight into FDR's thinking, and his plans.





1. Professor Paul Kengor writes, in " Dupes: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century," "The progressive left, and the liberal left, while not themselves communists, share many of the same sympathies, such of redistribution of wealth, and worker’s rights, nationalizations of industry, etc, but are not quite as far left as the communists, and would not go to the same lengths as the communists to achieve their goals. This does not mean, though, that the help of these dupes is not necessary in order for the communists to achieve victory.

a. And, in "Witness," Whittaker Chambers, former communist spy, notes that liberals are/were incapable of ever effectively fighting Communism because they did not see anything in Communism that was antithetical to their own beliefs.

b. Based on the above analysis, it seems that identifying one as a Liberal, or progressive rather than a communist, is a distinction without a difference. That is what I saw in the post that I quoted.


2. Are the values, the policies above 'American' values? Redistribution? Nationalization?
Or...are they from....somewhere else?
How did they gain more than acceptance....predominance in some precincts?
While they were popular in university dining rooms and seminars for a century, it took the crisis of the Depression for them to be imposed, inserted into the American system.






3. One of the policy advisers recruited by FDR was a young economics professor, Rexford Tugwell. He became part of FDR's 'BrainTrust' even before FDR became President. He had all the requirements: doctorate from Columbia University, fervent admirer of the man who re-branded 'socialist' as 'liberal,' John Dewey, and devotee of big government central planning.

a. FDR was an egomaniac, very much like our current President....neither of whom takes on alternative views to his own, to learn from them.


4. FDR selected Tugwell for a reason: they both had the same views. Tugwell admired what was known as "the Soviet experiment." In 1927, Rexford Guy Tugwell and Paul Douglas, who would become two of America's leading New Deal economists, expressed their awe at the Soviet “experiment.” Said Tugwell, “There is a new life beginning there.” Progressive Support for Russia's Bolshevik Revolution - Discover the Networks

The ideas contained included putting government in total control of the economy, production controls, price controls, profit controls, everything. To a large degree, it has been accomplished.
Yet, intelligent folks say "communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here....."




5. In 1931, Tugwell predicted "Business will be logically required to disappear." Ciepley, "Liberalism in the Shadow of Totalitarianism," p. 76.

Pretty much a one sentence definition of Marxism.

a. The plan: the abolition of the free market:
"Tugwell Sees End of Laissez Faire," NYTimes, February 16, 1934, and 147. Rexford Guy Tugwell (1891-1979). Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations. 1989





6. FDR endorsed Tugwell's ideas...but at that time America was still America. Unlike today, yelling "I'm a Communist" would not have been a good idea....
HAS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BEEN HIJACKED BY "SOCIALISTS" - YouTube

a. "[Harry] Hopkins [FDR's live-in adviser] tried to persuade Roosevelt to articulate a New Deal philosophy along Tugwell's lines, but the President was reluctant."
George McJimsey, " Harry Hopkins: Ally of the Poor and Defender of Democracy," p. 74-75

b. "No wonder. Congressional elections were coming up and the president didn't want to blow them by going completely Bolshevik. Better, I'm thinking, to preserve a good-cop (FDR), bad-cop (Tugwell) deniability."
Diana West, "American Betrayal," p. 144.





And while Lenin read a book on Marx
A quartet practiced in the park
And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died
Now the halftime air was sweet perfume
While the sergeants played a marching tune
We all got up to dance
Oh, but we never got the chance
Don Mclean, "American Pie"

More accurately...the day the Constitution died.




So, no, my Leftist friend, our way of government is not 'still here'....
...not if it once included liberty, freedom, values like responsibility, and success.



Left, Right, Left, Right, Left......

America has gone down hill, and it is one side's fault? Good one. You must have written this one especially for Daveman and Crusader Frank.

Sorry you feel left out.....
....but it was for folks who study history and learn from same.


I'm guessing that E. L. James, rather than either William James or Henry James would be more your speed.
True?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[a. Healthcare costs were falling until ObamaCare
.

No.

 

[PoliticalChic]

[a. Healthcare costs were falling until ObamaCare
.

No.

One of my guilty pleasures is ramming your bogus graphs down your biased throat.



.Year *NHE Increase

2001 1493

2002 1638 9.7%

2003 1775 8.3%

2004 1901 7.0%

2005 2030 6.7%

2006 2163 6.5%

2007 2298 6.2%

2008 2406 4.6%

2009 2501 3.9%

2010 2600 3.9%

2011 2700 3.8%

*National Health Expenditures, in $ billions.
http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...NationalHealthExpendData/Downloads/tables.pdf



Yup....government data.


That sound?
Me, laughing.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[Again....Americans in every quintile are living better every year.
Only the dupes of Leftism, i.e., you, claim otherwise.

So liberals won the War on Poverty?

 

[Spoonman]

[Again....Americans in every quintile are living better every year.
Only the dupes of Leftism, i.e., you, claim otherwise.

So liberals won the War on Poverty?

liberals create and facilitate poverty

 

[NYcarbineer]

[a.
[*]Healthcare costs were falling until ObamaCare.

No.

One of my guilty pleasures is ramming your bogus graphs down your biased throat.



.Year *NHE Increase

2001 1493

2002 1638 9.7%

2003 1775 8.3%

2004 1901 7.0%

2005 2030 6.7%

2006 2163 6.5%

2007 2298 6.2%

2008 2406 4.6%

2009 2501 3.9%

2010 2600 3.9%

2011 2700 3.8%

*National Health Expenditures, in $ billions.
http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...NationalHealthExpendData/Downloads/tables.pdf



Yup....government data.


That sound?
Me, laughing.

I bolded your claim a bit to remind you of it.

You posted the numbers that prove you were wrong. Healthcare costs were not falling, they were rising every year.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[Again....Americans in every quintile are living better every year.
Only the dupes of Leftism, i.e., you, claim otherwise.

So liberals won the War on Poverty?

liberals create and facilitate poverty

Would poor people be better off if we ended Medicaid?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Horsefeathers.

Every quintile has lived better.

Standard of living has done nothing but improve.


In 1949, someone who worked minimum wage over the summer would have enough money to buy the following items from that year’s Sears’ catalogue: A Smith-Corona typewriter, Argus 21 35mm camera, Silvertone AM-FM table radio, and Silvertone 3-speed phonograph.

In 2009, the same person, working the same number of hours at minimum wage, would now be able to purchase: A Dell laptop computer, HP color ink printer, scanner, copier, Canon 8 megapixel digital camera, GPS system, 32” LCD HDTV television, 8GB iPod Nano, GE microwave, Haier refrigerator/freezer, Toshiba DVD/VCR combo, RCA home theater system, Uniden cordless phone, RCA AM/FM radio, Camcorder, Sony PlayStation 2, as well as several other things.
Mark J. Perry, “Young Americans: Luckiest Generation in History,” CARPE DIEM: Young Americans: Luckiest Generation in History



If you're seeking a factor that works against the average individual becoming wealthy....it's taxes.

That would seem a clever post, to the untrained eye, but to the rest of us, we can note that

the author of that comparison scrupulously cherrypicked his list of items to include only those that have been in a non-inflationary/low inflationary trajectory over 60 years.

Leaving out such items as fuel/energy, food, healthcare, housing, education, etc., etc., those things which have been inflationary,

might make the argument look smart, but it isn't.

Not to mention the fact that the items in the 1949 list were mostly American made, and the items in the modern list aren't.

Factor out the lost value to the economy imported vs. American made manufacturing goods and re-calculate.

1. " ...but to the rest of us,..."
A reference to your multiple personalities?


2. "...the author of that comparison scrupulously cherrypicked his list of items..."
So...an admission that the post is correct, true....and you are left with no strategy but to spin it?
Good start.



3. "Leaving out such items as fuel/energy, food, healthcare, housing, education, etc., etc., those things which have been inflationary,..."

Herein lies the source of your problem. Being an ignorant fellow, you are forced to either spin, or lie.
Here is a tutorial you so sorely require:
a. Healthcare costs were falling until ObamaCare
b. The result of same is that overall costs that our name have not risen.

Increases in healthcare expenditures:
2003 8.6%
2004 6.9%
2005 6.5%
2006 6.7%
2007 6.1%
Compare to 10.5% in 1970 and 13% in 1980

Each year since 1960, food and energy together have taken up a declining share of Americans' expenditures, while housing has taken up a steady share.

These four necessities together consume the same share of American spending now (55%) as they did in 1960 (53%).

As further evidence, Americans are increasing the share of their spending that goes to recreation.
The American Spectator : Downgrading American Medical Care



Again....Americans in every quintile are living better every year.
Only the dupes of Leftism, i.e., you, claim otherwise.

In reality your data dump proves my point earlier...

...that Americans are working more and more to stay even, as evidenced for instance in the significant number of 2 earner households over the last 60 years.

Nowadays, in many more cases, both parents work to make ends meet when in the past 1 outside income could suffice.

 

[G.T.]

[a. Healthcare costs were falling until ObamaCare
.

No.

One of my guilty pleasures is ramming your bogus graphs down your biased throat.



.Year *NHE Increase

2001 1493

2002 1638 9.7%

2003 1775 8.3%

2004 1901 7.0%

2005 2030 6.7%

2006 2163 6.5%

2007 2298 6.2%

2008 2406 4.6%

2009 2501 3.9%

2010 2600 3.9%

2011 2700 3.8%

*National Health Expenditures, in $ billions.
http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...NationalHealthExpendData/Downloads/tables.pdf



Yup....government data.


That sound?
Me, laughing.

Umm, anything above 0% would be an increase, dipstick.

 

[g5000]

I've been around since 1950.

If anything, life has gotten better.

I've been around since the 70's...no complaints. At it's worst, America is still the best. You'll note that none of the sourpusses under Obama or Bush for that matter left this "terrible" place.

except "this place" was exponentially better under Bush.

Except for that whole economic collapse thing that threw unemployment into the doube digits, a doubling of the national debt, two wars, creating a massive new cabinet department, tossing US citizens into confinement without habeas corpus, the militarizaton of domestic police forces, "free speech zones", warrantless wiretaps, and waterboarding, yeah.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That would seem a clever post, to the untrained eye, but to the rest of us, we can note that

the author of that comparison scrupulously cherrypicked his list of items to include only those that have been in a non-inflationary/low inflationary trajectory over 60 years.

Leaving out such items as fuel/energy, food, healthcare, housing, education, etc., etc., those things which have been inflationary,

might make the argument look smart, but it isn't.

Not to mention the fact that the items in the 1949 list were mostly American made, and the items in the modern list aren't.

Factor out the lost value to the economy imported vs. American made manufacturing goods and re-calculate.

1. " ...but to the rest of us,..."
A reference to your multiple personalities?


2. "...the author of that comparison scrupulously cherrypicked his list of items..."
So...an admission that the post is correct, true....and you are left with no strategy but to spin it?
Good start.



3. "Leaving out such items as fuel/energy, food, healthcare, housing, education, etc., etc., those things which have been inflationary,..."

Herein lies the source of your problem. Being an ignorant fellow, you are forced to either spin, or lie.
Here is a tutorial you so sorely require:
a. Healthcare costs were falling until ObamaCare
b. The result of same is that overall costs that our name have not risen.

Increases in healthcare expenditures:
2003 8.6%
2004 6.9%
2005 6.5%
2006 6.7%
2007 6.1%
Compare to 10.5% in 1970 and 13% in 1980

Each year since 1960, food and energy together have taken up a declining share of Americans' expenditures, while housing has taken up a steady share.

These four necessities together consume the same share of American spending now (55%) as they did in 1960 (53%).

As further evidence, Americans are increasing the share of their spending that goes to recreation.
The American Spectator : Downgrading American Medical Care



Again....Americans in every quintile are living better every year.
Only the dupes of Leftism, i.e., you, claim otherwise.

In reality your data dump proves my point earlier...

...that Americans are working more and more to stay even, as evidenced for instance in the significant number of 2 earner households over the last 60 years.

Nowadays, in many more cases, both parents work to make ends meet when in the past 1 outside income could suffice.

1. Necessities cost the same as they did in 1960

2. Spending on recreation has increased

3. If more healthcare dollars are spent on heathcare, yet % drops every year....


....then folks must be earning more dollars than the rise in healthcare.

QED....costs are cut.


Is that over your head?

 

[PoliticalChic]

No.

One of my guilty pleasures is ramming your bogus graphs down your biased throat.



.Year *NHE Increase

2001 1493

2002 1638 9.7%

2003 1775 8.3%

2004 1901 7.0%

2005 2030 6.7%

2006 2163 6.5%

2007 2298 6.2%

2008 2406 4.6%

2009 2501 3.9%

2010 2600 3.9%

2011 2700 3.8%

*National Health Expenditures, in $ billions.
http://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...NationalHealthExpendData/Downloads/tables.pdf



Yup....government data.


That sound?
Me, laughing.

Umm, anything above 0% would be an increase, dipstick.

Seems we've found yet another subject beyond your comprehension.
What a surprise.

 

[Spoonman]

So liberals won the War on Poverty?

liberals create and facilitate poverty

Would poor people be better off if we ended Medicaid?

they did just fine before we created medicade. why? becuase they were incented to work. because they didn't come here looking for the free ride and easy handouts.

 

[L.K.Eder]

I've been around since 1950.

If anything, life has gotten better.

I've been around longer than that. Fought for this country. Served her for 22 years. This is NOT the country I grew up in.

No?

What's different?

THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[L.K.Eder]

I've been around since the 70's...no complaints. At it's worst, America is still the best. You'll note that none of the sourpusses under Obama or Bush for that matter left this "terrible" place.

except "this place" was exponentially better under Bush.

Except for that whole economic collapse thing that threw unemployment into the doube digits, a doubling of the national debt, two wars, creating a massive new cabinet department, tossing US citizens into confinement without habeas corpus, the militarizaton of domestic police forces, "free speech zones", warrantless wiretaps, and waterboarding, yeah.

the patriot act was great.

 

[NYcarbineer]

1. " ...but to the rest of us,..."
A reference to your multiple personalities?


2. "...the author of that comparison scrupulously cherrypicked his list of items..."
So...an admission that the post is correct, true....and you are left with no strategy but to spin it?
Good start.



3. "Leaving out such items as fuel/energy, food, healthcare, housing, education, etc., etc., those things which have been inflationary,..."

Herein lies the source of your problem. Being an ignorant fellow, you are forced to either spin, or lie.
Here is a tutorial you so sorely require:
a. Healthcare costs were falling until ObamaCare
b. The result of same is that overall costs that our name have not risen.

Increases in healthcare expenditures:
2003 8.6%
2004 6.9%
2005 6.5%
2006 6.7%
2007 6.1%
Compare to 10.5% in 1970 and 13% in 1980

Each year since 1960, food and energy together have taken up a declining share of Americans' expenditures, while housing has taken up a steady share.

These four necessities together consume the same share of American spending now (55%) as they did in 1960 (53%).

As further evidence, Americans are increasing the share of their spending that goes to recreation.
The American Spectator : Downgrading American Medical Care



Again....Americans in every quintile are living better every year.
Only the dupes of Leftism, i.e., you, claim otherwise.

In reality your data dump proves my point earlier...

...that Americans are working more and more to stay even, as evidenced for instance in the significant number of 2 earner households over the last 60 years.

Nowadays, in many more cases, both parents work to make ends meet when in the past 1 outside income could suffice.

1. Necessities cost the same as they did in 1960

2. Spending on recreation has increased

3. If more healthcare dollars are spent on heathcare, yet % drops every year....


....then folks must be earning more dollars than the rise in healthcare.

QED....costs are cut.


Is that over your head?

Is it that you don't understand what a dramatic rise in the number of 2 earner households is? That's going from 1 job per household to 2. Understand that?

That's a yes or no question.

 

[NoNukes]

The result of the better part of a century of Leftist propaganda has produced Americans who believe this:
"...communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here.....
Thank you FDR and the other world leaders for your triumph ..."
This, an actual post, from yesterday.





No....our way of government is long gone...if 'our government' refers to the United States as defined by the Constitution.

Leftist dupes have accepted exactly what totalitarians were selling....hate of success, individual liberty, business, profits, big government in control of every aspect of one's life.

The following is designed to give proof of this, and insight into FDR's thinking, and his plans.





1. Professor Paul Kengor writes, in " Dupes: How America's Adversaries Have Manipulated Progressives for a Century," "The progressive left, and the liberal left, while not themselves communists, share many of the same sympathies, such of redistribution of wealth, and worker’s rights, nationalizations of industry, etc, but are not quite as far left as the communists, and would not go to the same lengths as the communists to achieve their goals. This does not mean, though, that the help of these dupes is not necessary in order for the communists to achieve victory.

a. And, in "Witness," Whittaker Chambers, former communist spy, notes that liberals are/were incapable of ever effectively fighting Communism because they did not see anything in Communism that was antithetical to their own beliefs.

b. Based on the above analysis, it seems that identifying one as a Liberal, or progressive rather than a communist, is a distinction without a difference. That is what I saw in the post that I quoted.


2. Are the values, the policies above 'American' values? Redistribution? Nationalization?
Or...are they from....somewhere else?
How did they gain more than acceptance....predominance in some precincts?
While they were popular in university dining rooms and seminars for a century, it took the crisis of the Depression for them to be imposed, inserted into the American system.






3. One of the policy advisers recruited by FDR was a young economics professor, Rexford Tugwell. He became part of FDR's 'BrainTrust' even before FDR became President. He had all the requirements: doctorate from Columbia University, fervent admirer of the man who re-branded 'socialist' as 'liberal,' John Dewey, and devotee of big government central planning.

a. FDR was an egomaniac, very much like our current President....neither of whom takes on alternative views to his own, to learn from them.


4. FDR selected Tugwell for a reason: they both had the same views. Tugwell admired what was known as "the Soviet experiment." In 1927, Rexford Guy Tugwell and Paul Douglas, who would become two of America's leading New Deal economists, expressed their awe at the Soviet “experiment.” Said Tugwell, “There is a new life beginning there.” Progressive Support for Russia's Bolshevik Revolution - Discover the Networks

The ideas contained included putting government in total control of the economy, production controls, price controls, profit controls, everything. To a large degree, it has been accomplished.
Yet, intelligent folks say "communism has died away and our way of govt. is still here....."




5. In 1931, Tugwell predicted "Business will be logically required to disappear." Ciepley, "Liberalism in the Shadow of Totalitarianism," p. 76.

Pretty much a one sentence definition of Marxism.

a. The plan: the abolition of the free market:
"Tugwell Sees End of Laissez Faire," NYTimes, February 16, 1934, and 147. Rexford Guy Tugwell (1891-1979). Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations. 1989





6. FDR endorsed Tugwell's ideas...but at that time America was still America. Unlike today, yelling "I'm a Communist" would not have been a good idea....
HAS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BEEN HIJACKED BY "SOCIALISTS" - YouTube

a. "[Harry] Hopkins [FDR's live-in adviser] tried to persuade Roosevelt to articulate a New Deal philosophy along Tugwell's lines, but the President was reluctant."
George McJimsey, " Harry Hopkins: Ally of the Poor and Defender of Democracy," p. 74-75

b. "No wonder. Congressional elections were coming up and the president didn't want to blow them by going completely Bolshevik. Better, I'm thinking, to preserve a good-cop (FDR), bad-cop (Tugwell) deniability."
Diana West, "American Betrayal," p. 144.





And while Lenin read a book on Marx
A quartet practiced in the park
And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died
Now the halftime air was sweet perfume
While the sergeants played a marching tune
We all got up to dance
Oh, but we never got the chance
Don Mclean, "American Pie"

More accurately...the day the Constitution died.




So, no, my Leftist friend, our way of government is not 'still here'....
...not if it once included liberty, freedom, values like responsibility, and success.



Left, Right, Left, Right, Left......

America has gone down hill, and it is one side's fault? Good one. You must have written this one especially for Daveman and Crusader Frank.

Sorry you feel left out.....
....but it was for folks who study history and learn from same.


I'm guessing that E. L. James, rather than either William James or Henry James would be more your speed.
True?

Reality is more my speed. The downfall of America was a group effort.

 

[Vox]

Is it that you don't understand what a dramatic rise in the number of 2 earner households is? That's going from 1 job per household to 2. Understand that?

That's a yes or no question.

seems that it is YOU who does not understand that on a level of living that was 40 years ago one can live on one salary today as well

one car, two bedroom home and one TV in the living room. No cell phones, no internet, no computer , no other electronic gadgets, no kitchen gadgets - and a family of 4 can live on one salary as they have been 40 years ago.

 

[Vox]

Reality is more my speed. The downfall of America was a group effort.

Except there is NO DOWNFALL.

EVERYONE is much better, no matter how much you leftist hater dupes (c) want to deny it.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Reality is more my speed. The downfall of America was a group effort.

Except there is NO DOWNFALL.

EVERYONE is much better, no matter how much you leftist hater dupes (c) want to deny it.

you in the wrong thread?