So you wanna claim to be a Libertarian do ya?

[PredFan]

Libertarian ideology is a mess, kind of hard to deride people for not being purists when the whole thing is contradictory.

The Romper Room is that way====>

 

[Paulie]

Fair question...

But let me answer by saying I think it far too dangerous to let democrats continue.The GOP doesnt have my vote, However the dems pissing me off factor may just do it.

At some point the GOP needs to take their medicine and realize they can't trick us into giving them more opportunity to fuck us.

If the GOP is the only place libertarians can call home and still GET somewhere, then it's our responsibility to bring them to their senses.

Giving them yet another win just because we don't like the dems isn't going to change SHIT. It's just going to perpetuate the illusion of choice.

I let the GOP take their lumps and we gt Obama. Does that clarify the point?

What's the biggest problem we have with Obama? I'd say Obamacare. You'll have to forgive me for not assuming that Romney would do anything to change that.

 

[PredFan]

Let me ask you this...

If Romney wins in November, and after 4 years of him he proves to just be Bush 4...will you STILL support candidates endorsed by republican party brass...or will you have finally woken up to the paradigm?

It doesn't matter to me, even IF Romney is the best GOP potus of all time. Even if he tops Ronald Reagan in the minds of the GOP, I'll still fight for Libertarain ideas and Libertarian candidates. I am very familiar with the paradigm thanks, but I'm not so thick-headed as to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Well if he turns out to be that good, then there's nothing to worry about. But if turns out to be another Bush, then we start all over again.

If Obama is Bush 3, which essentially means we're saying he's just as bad as Bush...and Romney turns out to be Bush 4, that would mean we're essentially saying he's just as bad as Bush and Obama.

How does that work out well for us? I'm confused.

You asked me what I would do, now you are asking something else. but it's a good question.

It doesn't work well for the country as a whole, but unless we can figure out a way to get Ron Paul elected then we are stuck with obama or the GOP nom. The lesser of the two evils in that choice is most definitely the GOP nom. As long as we can keep the GOP focussed on the Constitution, and fiscal responsibility, we have a chance. Re-elect obama and we might as well hang it up. We will have no further chance.

 

[PredFan]

Yep same as the last president, just fooling the other party.
this IS a third Bush term.

It is. And with all of Bush's 8 years crammed into obama's four. I wish we could change it, that's why I voted for Ron Paul in the Florida Primaries. Now we just have to vote for the lesser of two evils. The lesser of the two would be any of the fhree GOP candidates. of course Ron Paul would be the cure, or at least a very good start.

3 republican candidates?
I thought there were four?

Read the whole post.

 

[occupied]

Libertarian ideology is a mess, kind of hard to deride people for not being purists when the whole thing is contradictory.

That hilarious! Libertarianism is pretty much the only modern political ideology that comes close to logical consistency. Shall we discuss the contradictions found in liberalism? or conservatism? or progressivism?

It's far to say it's not as clear cut as some like to pretend, but to call it 'mess' or 'contradictory' - I can only ask "compared to what??"

The main problem I have with libertarians or at least people who call themselves libertarians is their devotion to individual rights and their seeming revulsion and hostility for collective rights.

 

[PredFan]

Libertarian ideology is a mess, kind of hard to deride people for not being purists when the whole thing is contradictory.

That hilarious! Libertarianism is pretty much the only modern political ideology that comes close to logical consistency. Shall we discuss the contradictions found in liberalism? or conservatism? or progressivism?

It's far to say it's not as clear cut as some like to pretend, but to call it 'mess' or 'contradictory' - I can only ask "compared to what??"

The main problem I have with libertarians or at least people who call themselves libertarians is their devotion to individual rights and their seeming revulsion and hostility for collective rights.

We have no hostility toward collective rights at all. Unless they infringe on the individual or collective rights of someone else. No one has a right to a "living wage", no one has a right to healthcare, no one has a right to any piece of another persons life and no one has any right to control over another person's life.

 

[PredFan]

Going to luch, will continue in an hour or so. It's an interesting discussion.

 

[Full-Auto]

At some point the GOP needs to take their medicine and realize they can't trick us into giving them more opportunity to fuck us.

If the GOP is the only place libertarians can call home and still GET somewhere, then it's our responsibility to bring them to their senses.

Giving them yet another win just because we don't like the dems isn't going to change SHIT. It's just going to perpetuate the illusion of choice.

I let the GOP take their lumps and we gt Obama. Does that clarify the point?

What's the biggest problem we have with Obama? I'd say Obamacare. You'll have to forgive me for not assuming that Romney would do anything to change that.

I don think he would, nor do I think that is the biggest problem.

WE have the unjustice dept and cronyism that exceeds anything in my lifetime.

 

[occupied]

That hilarious! Libertarianism is pretty much the only modern political ideology that comes close to logical consistency. Shall we discuss the contradictions found in liberalism? or conservatism? or progressivism?

It's far to say it's not as clear cut as some like to pretend, but to call it 'mess' or 'contradictory' - I can only ask "compared to what??"

The main problem I have with libertarians or at least people who call themselves libertarians is their devotion to individual rights and their seeming revulsion and hostility for collective rights.

We have no hostility toward collective rights at all. Unless they infringe on the individual or collective rights of someone else. No one has a right to a "living wage", no one has a right to healthcare, no one has a right to any piece of another persons life and no one has any right to control over another person's life.

If you are self centered enough to exploit people or the environment, collective rights always infringe on individual rights.

 

[eflatminor]

...the extent of their knowledge of the economy, and fiscal issues is that the stopping the war on drugs will reduce government spending.

Then teach them! Buy a young Libertarian a book by Mises or Hayek, or a subscription to Reason. Have a convincing conversation when you can. Mentor a family member or friend. Better yet, run for a local office. It took 100+ years of progressive socialism to get where we are, it's going to take some time to get back to liberty and fiscal sanity. Keep trying!

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I know this, but if we count those things as a wash, there is plenty of other things that obama does that are apalling to libertarians. This is what separates obama from the eventual GOP nom. I agree, that it is a sad choice for us to have to make, and I will have to hold my nose in November and vote for the GOP candidate and continue to put my support behind Libertarian candidates and Libertarian ideas. Like I'm doing right now.

See, in my view, this is the phony libertarian line. If you're holding your nose and voting for a Republican regardless of who it is, you ARE a Republican - and not a libertarian. And you are worse for the libertarian cause than not. If Romney wins the nomination, and you vote for him, you are ensuring that libertarian views will continue to be ignored in the Republican party. As long as they can take us for granted, and ignore us when it comes to forming policy, they will.

That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.

That's ironic.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Fair question...

But let me answer by saying I think it far too dangerous to let democrats continue.The GOP doesnt have my vote, However the dems pissing me off factor may just do it.

At some point the GOP needs to take their medicine and realize they can't trick us into giving them more opportunity to fuck us.

If the GOP is the only place libertarians can call home and still GET somewhere, then it's our responsibility to bring them to their senses.

Giving them yet another win just because we don't like the dems isn't going to change SHIT. It's just going to perpetuate the illusion of choice.

But you are trying to merge two separate issues into one. One the one hand, we can and will change the hearts and minds of the GOP. Who started talking fiscal responsibility first? the Libertarians. Who started the Tea Party back in 2007 when Bush was potus? The Libertarian party. we are capable of doing it and we are doing it. the other issue is that we cannot let the democrats destroy liberty and capitalism while waiting for the dumb masses to wake up. by the time they do, it will be too late for us to do anything about it.

Two separate issues.

No, it was not the Libertarian Party who did the tea parties in 2007. It was supporters of Ron Paul who was running in the Republican Party.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

This entire thread is premised on the foolish ideas that young libertarians only want to smoke weed, and that the GOP is superior to the Democratic Party. That "we" will be able to keep a Republican President, be it Romney or Santorum, in check and make them follow the Constitution and fiscal responsibility.

I'm sorry, but if you've really been a libertarian for 25 years then you should know better.

 

[PredFan]

Ok well, my lunch (much like Truthmatters higher brain functions) is delayed.

 

[PredFan]

At some point the GOP needs to take their medicine and realize they can't trick us into giving them more opportunity to fuck us.

If the GOP is the only place libertarians can call home and still GET somewhere, then it's our responsibility to bring them to their senses.

Giving them yet another win just because we don't like the dems isn't going to change SHIT. It's just going to perpetuate the illusion of choice.

I let the GOP take their lumps and we gt Obama. Does that clarify the point?

What's the biggest problem we have with Obama? I'd say Obamacare. You'll have to forgive me for not assuming that Romney would do anything to change that.

Of course we cannot assume he will, but we KNOW that obama won't. That's not all the issues I have but it is a good example of why he needs to be gone.

 

[PredFan]

The main problem I have with libertarians or at least people who call themselves libertarians is their devotion to individual rights and their seeming revulsion and hostility for collective rights.

We have no hostility toward collective rights at all. Unless they infringe on the individual or collective rights of someone else. No one has a right to a "living wage", no one has a right to healthcare, no one has a right to any piece of another persons life and no one has any right to control over another person's life.

If you are self centered enough to exploit people or the environment, collective rights always infringe on individual rights.

No one is exploiting anyone and the environment has no rights.

 

[PredFan]

...the extent of their knowledge of the economy, and fiscal issues is that the stopping the war on drugs will reduce government spending.

Then teach them! Buy a young Libertarian a book by Mises or Hayek, or a subscription to Reason. Have a convincing conversation when you can. Mentor a family member or friend. Better yet, run for a local office. It took 100+ years of progressive socialism to get where we are, it's going to take some time to get back to liberty and fiscal sanity. Keep trying!

That';s what this thread is about my friend.

I am also on FaceBook since that is where many of the young are.

 

[PredFan]

See, in my view, this is the phony libertarian line. If you're holding your nose and voting for a Republican regardless of who it is, you ARE a Republican - and not a libertarian. And you are worse for the libertarian cause than not. If Romney wins the nomination, and you vote for him, you are ensuring that libertarian views will continue to be ignored in the Republican party. As long as they can take us for granted, and ignore us when it comes to forming policy, they will.

That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.

That's ironic.

Not at all.

 

[PredFan]

At some point the GOP needs to take their medicine and realize they can't trick us into giving them more opportunity to fuck us.

If the GOP is the only place libertarians can call home and still GET somewhere, then it's our responsibility to bring them to their senses.

Giving them yet another win just because we don't like the dems isn't going to change SHIT. It's just going to perpetuate the illusion of choice.

But you are trying to merge two separate issues into one. One the one hand, we can and will change the hearts and minds of the GOP. Who started talking fiscal responsibility first? the Libertarians. Who started the Tea Party back in 2007 when Bush was potus? The Libertarian party. we are capable of doing it and we are doing it. the other issue is that we cannot let the democrats destroy liberty and capitalism while waiting for the dumb masses to wake up. by the time they do, it will be too late for us to do anything about it.

Two separate issues.

No, it was not the Libertarian Party who did the tea parties in 2007. It was supporters of Ron Paul who was running in the Republican Party.

What? Yes, the tea Party started in 2007 and it was Libertarians who started it. The first rally I went to here in Orlando was mostly Ron Paul people. Later it was usurped by the GOP. Your second statement makes no sense at all. Typo somewhere perhaps?

 

[PredFan]

This entire thread is premised on the foolish ideas that young libertarians only want to smoke weed, and that the GOP is superior to the Democratic Party. That "we" will be able to keep a Republican President, be it Romney or Santorum, in check and make them follow the Constitution and fiscal responsibility.

I'm sorry, but if you've really been a libertarian for 25 years then you should know better.

Try reading the OP first before making a fool of yourself. The thread didn't start out that way but it has been mostly about that. I cannot help it if that is what everyone wants to discuss.

What you also fail at is realizing the very real fact that as bad as the GOP might be, simply allowing the DNC and obama to continue is much worse. Now, before you go off half-cocked and say anything else idiotic, please read at least some of the discussion before posting so I don't have to repeat the same stuff I've already gone over.