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I know this, but if we count those things as a wash, there is plenty of other things that obama does that are apalling to libertarians. This is what separates obama from the eventual GOP nom. I agree, that it is a sad choice for us to have to make, and I will have to hold my nose in November and vote for the GOP candidate and continue to put my support behind Libertarian candidates and Libertarian ideas. Like I'm doing right now.
See, in my view, this is the phony libertarian line. If you're holding your nose and voting for a Republican regardless of who it is, you ARE a Republican - and not a libertarian. And you are worse for the libertarian cause than not. If Romney wins the nomination, and you vote for him, you are ensuring that libertarian views will continue to be ignored in the Republican party. As long as they can take us for granted, and ignore us when it comes to forming policy, they will.
I used to get stoned every day. I don't smoke anymore. And somehow the issue is still just as important to me now as it was when I got high. In fact, I think it becomes MORE important as you start to advocate for legalization not because of "getting high", but because of the more broad issue of personal liberty itself. It's not about getting high. It's about being free to decide what's best for YOU.I don't buy this notion that the Paul movement is just a bunch of stoners looking for decriminalization or legalization or whatever.
not all of us, I'm a Libertarian and that isn't what i'm here for.
....but what's wrong with pro-marijuana people looking to the libertarians for a home?
nothing, except that i wish they would spend some time actually more learning about the party then just it's stance on drug use.
Everyone's got political issues that are important to them. There's a huge problem in this country when people are having their futures ruined over getting caught with a bag of weed. That's serious to a lot of people. I'm one of them. It's not exactly issue number one to me at the moment, but I don't see anywhere else where that issue is ever going to get anywhere other than with the libertarians.
We could discuss that issue in a whole new thread, but it wouldn't go very far because i agree that the war on drugs is a failure and I support the freedom to do that kind of thing if you so choose.
The problem is the future. Most people grow out of smoking pot. What happens to their political leanings when that's over? What is going to happen to the Libertarian Party when Ron Paul retires or passes on? Can any of the young people recite the names any of the other Libertarian politicians out there? If they don't know the LP platform other than the drug issue, what future does the party have?
Some know about the LP's desire to do away with the Fed. They know to shout "End the Fed" but that's about it. What really disturbs me is that they have such a total lack of understanding about how government actually works that they think that if Paul was to get elected to the White House, they'd be able to smoke dope very soon after.
While I don't mind having them and even welcome them as useful idiots, it is distressing to me. That is part of the reason for this thread. To educate those who call themselves libertarians.
That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.
I have been a Libertarian for at least 25 years. Longer, if you count the time I was a Libertarian without knowing there was such a thing.
In the past 10 years I have seen tremendous growth in the party's ranks. especially among the young. At first, this was very encouraging. However, the more I talked to these people and the more I observed their actions, the more disappointed I've become. 90% of these new, young, libertarians are only here because they think that Ron paul is going to let them do drugs legally. the extent of their knowledge of the economy, and fiscal issues is that the stopping the war on drugs will reduce government spending.
Many of the new Libertarians, also are aware that the LP promotes non-interventionalism, they like this idea too. "Don't die in a war, and you live to smoke more pot" sounds pretty good to them. They also love to point out how much money will be saved when we aren't fighting "over there".
Too many times I see these people doing and saying the stupidest things in the name of the Libertarian Party. Throwing things at Sean hannity during the 2008 GOP convention is a prime example. It has been said many times and it's true, that sometimes Ron Paul's worst enemy is his supporters.
The worst, in my opinion is their preference for the democrats over the GOP if they have to make the choice. I heard just last week, a person on a local libertarian talk show state that he's rather have Obama than rick Santorum. That's an exmaple of a person who is only a libertarian because of one or two issues, and listening to him, I'll bet he just wants to smoke pot unmolested. There is no way that a knowledgeable and rational libertarian would say such a thing. I have heard this same sentiment a few times before, and it's rediculous. Barack hussein Obama is the polar opposite of everything that the Libertarian Party stands for. no rational thinking libertarian can say that Rick Santorum is in the same category.
It's great that our political clout is slowly increasing and although Ron Paul will never be POTUS, I hope I live to see a Libertarian in the White House. but you people need to really look at the Libertarian Party's platform and payattention to the WHOLE thing.
And btw, Ron Paul, if he were to somehow get elected, would not be able to make drugs legal, not in any way shape or form. The POTUS is not Ceasar and he cannot just do whatever he wants to.
I can definitely relate. I never knew i was until others pointed it out, then later confirmed through several political spectrum tests. You realize the wing nuts from both parties think that gives them the free pass to project our believes all of which are allegedly in lock step.
That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.
Strawman bullshit. I never said I supported Obama. And I don't vote for statism and big government. You do. I vote Libertarian.
And btw, I haven't EVEN tried to lecture in libertarian ideology, but you are badly in need of it.,
Let me ask you this...I know this, but if we count those things as a wash, there is plenty of other things that obama does that are apalling to libertarians. This is what separates obama from the eventual GOP nom. I agree, that it is a sad choice for us to have to make, and I will have to hold my nose in November and vote for the GOP candidate and continue to put my support behind Libertarian candidates and Libertarian ideas. Like I'm doing right now.
See, in my view, this is the phony libertarian line. If you're holding your nose and voting for a Republican regardless of who it is, you ARE a Republican - and not a libertarian. And you are worse for the libertarian cause than not. If Romney wins the nomination, and you vote for him, you are ensuring that libertarian views will continue to be ignored in the Republican party. As long as they can take us for granted, and ignore us when it comes to forming policy, they will.
That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.
Let me ask you this...See, in my view, this is the phony libertarian line. If you're holding your nose and voting for a Republican regardless of who it is, you ARE a Republican - and not a libertarian. And you are worse for the libertarian cause than not. If Romney wins the nomination, and you vote for him, you are ensuring that libertarian views will continue to be ignored in the Republican party. As long as they can take us for granted, and ignore us when it comes to forming policy, they will.
That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.
If Romney wins in November, and after 4 years of him he proves to just be Bush 4...will you STILL support candidates endorsed by republican party brass...or will you have finally woken up to the paradigm?
Let me ask you this...That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.
If Romney wins in November, and after 4 years of him he proves to just be Bush 4...will you STILL support candidates endorsed by republican party brass...or will you have finally woken up to the paradigm?
Fair question...
But let me answer by saying I think it far too dangerous to let democrats continue.The GOP doesnt have my vote, However the dems pissing me off factor may just do it.
That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.
Strawman bullshit. I never said I supported Obama. And I don't vote for statism and big government. You do. I vote Libertarian.
And btw, I haven't EVEN tried to lecture in libertarian ideology, but you are badly in need of it.,
I used to get stoned every day. I don't smoke anymore. And somehow the issue is still just as important to me now as it was when I got high. In fact, I think it becomes MORE important as you start to advocate for legalization not because of "getting high", but because of the more broad issue of personal liberty itself. It's not about getting high. It's about being free to decide what's best for YOU.I don't buy this notion that the Paul movement is just a bunch of stoners looking for decriminalization or legalization or whatever.
not all of us, I'm a Libertarian and that isn't what i'm here for.
nothing, except that i wish they would spend some time actually more learning about the party then just it's stance on drug use.
Everyone's got political issues that are important to them. There's a huge problem in this country when people are having their futures ruined over getting caught with a bag of weed. That's serious to a lot of people. I'm one of them. It's not exactly issue number one to me at the moment, but I don't see anywhere else where that issue is ever going to get anywhere other than with the libertarians.
We could discuss that issue in a whole new thread, but it wouldn't go very far because i agree that the war on drugs is a failure and I support the freedom to do that kind of thing if you so choose.
The problem is the future. Most people grow out of smoking pot. What happens to their political leanings when that's over? What is going to happen to the Libertarian Party when Ron Paul retires or passes on? Can any of the young people recite the names any of the other Libertarian politicians out there? If they don't know the LP platform other than the drug issue, what future does the party have?
Some know about the LP's desire to do away with the Fed. They know to shout "End the Fed" but that's about it. What really disturbs me is that they have such a total lack of understanding about how government actually works that they think that if Paul was to get elected to the White House, they'd be able to smoke dope very soon after.
While I don't mind having them and even welcome them as useful idiots, it is distressing to me. That is part of the reason for this thread. To educate those who call themselves libertarians.
As far as chanting...60 some million people knew to chant "yes we can" and it worked for them.
At least with end the fed, there's a CAUSE behind the chant. There's no way for you to really know whether they understand the issue or not. You'd have to interview a sample of people scientifically and come up with a result with percentages of people who understand, and who don't, to be able to legitimately accuse the movement of being uninformed.
Let me ask you this...See, in my view, this is the phony libertarian line. If you're holding your nose and voting for a Republican regardless of who it is, you ARE a Republican - and not a libertarian. And you are worse for the libertarian cause than not. If Romney wins the nomination, and you vote for him, you are ensuring that libertarian views will continue to be ignored in the Republican party. As long as they can take us for granted, and ignore us when it comes to forming policy, they will.
That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.
If Romney wins in November, and after 4 years of him he proves to just be Bush 4...will you STILL support candidates endorsed by republican party brass...or will you have finally woken up to the paradigm?
I used to get stoned every day. I don't smoke anymore. And somehow the issue is still just as important to me now as it was when I got high. In fact, I think it becomes MORE important as you start to advocate for legalization not because of "getting high", but because of the more broad issue of personal liberty itself. It's not about getting high. It's about being free to decide what's best for YOU.not all of us, I'm a Libertarian and that isn't what i'm here for.
nothing, except that i wish they would spend some time actually more learning about the party then just it's stance on drug use.
We could discuss that issue in a whole new thread, but it wouldn't go very far because i agree that the war on drugs is a failure and I support the freedom to do that kind of thing if you so choose.
The problem is the future. Most people grow out of smoking pot. What happens to their political leanings when that's over? What is going to happen to the Libertarian Party when Ron Paul retires or passes on? Can any of the young people recite the names any of the other Libertarian politicians out there? If they don't know the LP platform other than the drug issue, what future does the party have?
Some know about the LP's desire to do away with the Fed. They know to shout "End the Fed" but that's about it. What really disturbs me is that they have such a total lack of understanding about how government actually works that they think that if Paul was to get elected to the White House, they'd be able to smoke dope very soon after.
While I don't mind having them and even welcome them as useful idiots, it is distressing to me. That is part of the reason for this thread. To educate those who call themselves libertarians.
As far as chanting...60 some million people knew to chant "yes we can" and it worked for them.
At least with end the fed, there's a CAUSE behind the chant. There's no way for you to really know whether they understand the issue or not. You'd have to interview a sample of people scientifically and come up with a result with percentages of people who understand, and who don't, to be able to legitimately accuse the movement of being uninformed.
Obviously not everyone fits into one category. I also smoked pretty heavily in my youth. heck back in the sixties and seventies, who didn't? It is still important in that it is fiscally irresponsible to spend all of this taxpayer money on a fruitless war on drugs, and is also an affront to personal liberty. but my point is that I wish they would learn more about the party than just it's stance on drugs.
Let me ask you this...That's your opinion, I don't buy it, especially when someone who can support obama is trying to lecture me on libertarian ideology. I don't just support Libertarian candidates, I support Libertarian ideas, and if I cannot get what i want i make the best of what's out there and live to fight another day. You vote for statism, big government, and against the constitution. You can have that crap. That is not Liberatarian in any way shape or form.
If Romney wins in November, and after 4 years of him he proves to just be Bush 4...will you STILL support candidates endorsed by republican party brass...or will you have finally woken up to the paradigm?
It doesn't matter to me, even IF Romney is the best GOP potus of all time. Even if he tops Ronald Reagan in the minds of the GOP, I'll still fight for Libertarain ideas and Libertarian candidates. I am very familiar with the paradigm thanks, but I'm not so thick-headed as to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Let me ask you this...
If Romney wins in November, and after 4 years of him he proves to just be Bush 4...will you STILL support candidates endorsed by republican party brass...or will you have finally woken up to the paradigm?
Fair question...
But let me answer by saying I think it far too dangerous to let democrats continue.The GOP doesnt have my vote, However the dems pissing me off factor may just do it.
At some point the GOP needs to take their medicine and realize they can't trick us into giving them more opportunity to fuck us.
If the GOP is the only place libertarians can call home and still GET somewhere, then it's our responsibility to bring them to their senses.
Giving them yet another win just because we don't like the dems isn't going to change SHIT. It's just going to perpetuate the illusion of choice.
Let me ask you this...
If Romney wins in November, and after 4 years of him he proves to just be Bush 4...will you STILL support candidates endorsed by republican party brass...or will you have finally woken up to the paradigm?
Fair question...
But let me answer by saying I think it far too dangerous to let democrats continue.The GOP doesnt have my vote, However the dems pissing me off factor may just do it.
At some point the GOP needs to take their medicine and realize they can't trick us into giving them more opportunity to fuck us.
If the GOP is the only place libertarians can call home and still GET somewhere, then it's our responsibility to bring them to their senses.
Giving them yet another win just because we don't like the dems isn't going to change SHIT. It's just going to perpetuate the illusion of choice.
Because he has to appear different on certain issues to perpetuate the myth that there's actually choices in our elections. At the end of the day, Obama serves big business interests just like Bush did. But as long as he throws a bone to the left every once in a while, it appears that he's the liberal everyone voted for.
Yep same as the last president, just fooling the other party.
this IS a third Bush term.
It is. And with all of Bush's 8 years crammed into obama's four. I wish we could change it, that's why I voted for Ron Paul in the Florida Primaries. Now we just have to vote for the lesser of two evils. The lesser of the two would be any of the fhree GOP candidates. of course Ron Paul would be the cure, or at least a very good start.
I used to get stoned every day. I don't smoke anymore. And somehow the issue is still just as important to me now as it was when I got high. In fact, I think it becomes MORE important as you start to advocate for legalization not because of "getting high", but because of the more broad issue of personal liberty itself. It's not about getting high. It's about being free to decide what's best for YOU.
As far as chanting...60 some million people knew to chant "yes we can" and it worked for them.
At least with end the fed, there's a CAUSE behind the chant. There's no way for you to really know whether they understand the issue or not. You'd have to interview a sample of people scientifically and come up with a result with percentages of people who understand, and who don't, to be able to legitimately accuse the movement of being uninformed.
Obviously not everyone fits into one category. I also smoked pretty heavily in my youth. heck back in the sixties and seventies, who didn't? It is still important in that it is fiscally irresponsible to spend all of this taxpayer money on a fruitless war on drugs, and is also an affront to personal liberty. but my point is that I wish they would learn more about the party than just it's stance on drugs.
I'm not really sure there's any basis in assuming the movement is just about Paul's stance on drugs.
Fair question...
But let me answer by saying I think it far too dangerous to let democrats continue.The GOP doesnt have my vote, However the dems pissing me off factor may just do it.
At some point the GOP needs to take their medicine and realize they can't trick us into giving them more opportunity to fuck us.
If the GOP is the only place libertarians can call home and still GET somewhere, then it's our responsibility to bring them to their senses.
Giving them yet another win just because we don't like the dems isn't going to change SHIT. It's just going to perpetuate the illusion of choice.
But you are trying to merge two separate issues into one. One the one hand, we can and will change the hearts and minds of the GOP. Who started talking fiscal responsibility first? the Libertarians. Who started the Tea Party back in 2007 when Bush was potus? The Libertarian party. we are capable of doing it and we are doing it. the other issue is that we cannot let the democrats destroy liberty and capitalism while waiting for the dumb masses to wake up. by the time they do, it will be too late for us to do anything about it.
Two separate issues.
Libertarian ideology is a mess, kind of hard to deride people for not being purists when the whole thing is contradictory.
