Socialism = Capitalism plus

[francoHFW]

Socialism - The government steals all your money from you

Democratic Socialism - You vote for the government to steal all your money from you

Socialism is always democratic. You are a cold war dinosaur GOP dupe. Communism is no longer an option it's dead for all practical purposes no loss.

 

[francoHFW]

Your way of thinking is only in brainwashed GOP doop world America. The rest of the world thinks you're crazy. Global warming is a hoax, a flat tax is perfect. They're screwing the hell out of you.

Now is that capitalism? or capitalism plus?

Fair capitalism with a good safety net Health Care Day Care etc socialism like every other modern country where the non Rich are not getting screwed over like here by the GOP. Only propaganda makes it possible. Snap out of it LOL

 

[francoHFW]

More like France? Come on Franco you have to exhibit a higher level of intelligence then that.

Fish have told him that

Franco is short for Francophile ask me anything. I speak French fluently and they have the best quality of life in the world. English and Americans are just jealous Germans especially.coamerica could be better than France but then we have the new BS GOP and its Dupes like you.... And you can't move to France unless you're superrich or don't need money.I had a bar in Spain I couldn't do anything with. I must have asked 300 women to marry me LOL.

 

[francoHFW]

More like France? Come on Franco you have to exhibit a higher level of intelligence then that.

Fish have told him that

Franco is short for Francophile ask me anything. I speak French fluently and they have the best quality of life in the world. English and Americans are just jealous Germans especially.coamerica could be better than France but then we have the new BS GOP and its Dupes like you.... And you can't move to France unless you're superrich or don't need money.I had a bar in Spain I couldn't do anything with. I must have asked 300 women to marry me LOL.

English and Americans are so proud of themselves, behind the English channel and the Atlantic ocean..... The worst capitalists in the world LOL the worst conservatives slash imperialists are the GOP totally out of control and the Tories in England with brexit now stupider than Trump even.

 

[francoHFW]

More like France? Come on Franco you have to exhibit a higher level of intelligence then that.

Fish have told him that

Franco is short for Francophile ask me anything. I speak French fluently and they have the best quality of life in the world. English and Americans are just jealous Germans especially.coamerica could be better than France but then we have the new BS GOP and its Dupes like you.... And you can't move to France unless you're superrich or don't need money.I had a bar in Spain I couldn't do anything with. I must have asked 300 women to marry me LOL.

English and Americans are so proud of themselves, behind the English channel and the Atlantic ocean..... The worst capitalists in the world LOL the worst conservatives slash imperialists are the GOP totally out of control and the Tories in England with brexit now stupider than Trump even.

Napoleon never said England was full of shopkeepers, he said they were Monopolists and nasty capitalist LOL. And he was above average height for the time more garbage propaganda. Charles de Gaulle called them anglo-americans and did not trust them much LOL. The other great Republic and our oldest and best Ally.

 

[dblack]

The definition has changed a couple of times. Socialism used to be theoretical Marxism then it became like USSR communism. Then we found out that was a scam and not Democratic at all. Now socialism is democratic socialism like in every other modern country. you think it's some kind of conspiracy but it just means you get Healthcare good day care paid parental leave living wage cheap college and training good vacations and infrastructure.

*Sigh* - more shell games.

The Democratic Socialists of America seem like a decent enough source. They say:

What is Democratic Socialism?
Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I bolded a couple of sections to emphasize that they want considerably more than what you suggest. They want to see both the economy and society "run" by government. A free market is not run by government. Neither is a free society.

 

[francoHFW]

The definition has changed a couple of times. Socialism used to be theoretical Marxism then it became like USSR communism. Then we found out that was a scam and not Democratic at all. Now socialism is democratic socialism like in every other modern country. you think it's some kind of conspiracy but it just means you get Healthcare good day care paid parental leave living wage cheap college and training good vacations and infrastructure.

*Sigh* - more shell games.

The Democratic Socialists of America seem like a decent enough source. They say:

What is Democratic Socialism?
Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I bolded a couple of sections to emphasize that they want considerably more than what you suggest. They want to see both the economy and society "run" by government. A free market is not run by government. Neither is a free society.

Well the last 35 years our government has been a Reaganist conservative give away to the rich and crap for everyone else with the stupidest foreign policy ever. And a depression for crying out loud.... Great job. It would be like Australia or France or Sweden, not run by the government the way you are spinning it, super duper.

 

[dblack]

The definition has changed a couple of times. Socialism used to be theoretical Marxism then it became like USSR communism. Then we found out that was a scam and not Democratic at all. Now socialism is democratic socialism like in every other modern country. you think it's some kind of conspiracy but it just means you get Healthcare good day care paid parental leave living wage cheap college and training good vacations and infrastructure.

*Sigh* - more shell games.

The Democratic Socialists of America seem like a decent enough source. They say:

What is Democratic Socialism?
Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

I bolded a couple of sections to emphasize that they want considerably more than what you suggest. They want to see both the economy and society "run" by government. A free market is not run by government. Neither is a free society.

Well the last 35 years our government has been a Reaganist conservative give away to the rich and crap for everyone else with the stupidest foreign policy ever. And a depression for crying out loud.... Great job. It would be like Australia or France or Sweden, not run by the government the way you are spining it, super duper.

Whatever. The topic is socialism. Currently we're discussion your equivocation - your half-witted word games. Why all the evasion?

 

[Oddball]

In reality the Democrats are centrist pragmatists ...

A statement that dead gives away what a total Marxist tool that you really are.

 

[Oddball]

Whatever. The topic is socialism. Currently we're discussion your equivocation - your half-witted word games. Why all the evasion?

Because commies will never at admit it, until it's too late.

Evasion, equivocation, qualification, and obfuscation is all they have in the meantime.

 

[impuretrash]

Socialism - The government steals all your money from you

Democratic Socialism - You vote for the government to steal all your money from you

America will be just fine, we are the richest country in the world we can handle some justice for the middle-class and working-class. You are brainwashed. Health Care needs to be gotten under control the costs are ridiculous. Cheap college and training Healthcare living wage daycare can be done cheap.

Why does a system of heavily taxed and regulated corporations and all that other stuff always have to go hand in hand with degenerate and immoral social reform?

 

[Oddball]

Socialism - The government steals all your money from you

Democratic Socialism - You vote for the government to steal all your money from you

 

[ralfy]

No it doesn't....Black markets are the best example.

Yes, black markets dominate the global economy. LOL.

It was an example, a model, not a reflection on how things presently are, ferchrissakes.

Next time, come up with a correct example.

 

[ralfy]

None of those things are socialism.

They are part of social democracy, which stems from socialism.

 

[ralfy]

Worthless fiat currencies are socialism...A state-enforced monopoly....And, despite wht the poster in question foolishly asserts, they are not necessary in a free market economic model.

They are not socialist but stems from the latter, together with other aspects of modern capitalist systems. That's why many of them are mixed economies.

They are not worthless because businesses require standardization for more efficient trade. In fact, they are only part of legal systems used by businesses and their customers.

Finally, they are not necessary in a "free market economic model" if the latter is primitive or your black market.

 

[ralfy]

I disagree. Yes, fiat money is controlled by the state, but it's not inherently socialistic. There’s an unfortunate tendency to conflate “socialist” with “state controlled”. The truth is that fiat currency has been used on and off throughout history by all sorts of governments to provide exchange media where nothing else was available, to finance government spending, or to assert control over the money supply.

It originates from that, but its main purpose is to ensure greater efficiency, in contrast to a market where some businesses will not accept money and insist on bartering. Given the need for efficiency they will eventually be driven out of businesses by competitors.

 

[ralfy]

Fiat currencies are all state-run and enforced monopolies....It doesn't get anymore socialistic than that.....So much so that it's plank 5 in Marx's Communist Manifesto.

They were used for hundreds of years in China and Europe before they became one of Marx's planks.

 

[Kit Maskin]

on this thread are mixed concepts of Economics, Ideology and Philosophy.
Economy:
- Planned Economy
- market economy
These 2 types can have different types of property:
- private property
- personal property
- public property
- corporate property

Ideology:
Ideology regulates the relationship of the individual and society.
1. A person has complete freedom of action within the framework of laws established by the society. The society does not interfere. But the Society does not guarantee anything. You do everything at your own risk.
2. The Society guarantees you full protection. But you do not have opportunities for freedom of action.

Philosophy
1. Freedoms of the Person must be respected, and then the interests of the Society
2. vice versa ...
===============
Now let's try to build other concepts from these concepts.
1. Capitalism is:
- private ownership of the means of production
- market economy
- The person has complete freedom and the Society does not guarantee anything.
- Interests of the Person above the interests of the Society..
(This is classic capitalism, but, in fact, capitalism in such a primitive form has not existed since the mid-19th century)
---------
Communism is:
- public ownership of the means of production. no money!
- Planned Economy
- The Society guarantees full protection
- Interests of the Society above the interests of the Person
(This is classic Communism. But, in fact, Communism never existed.)
---------------
Now let's see what Socialism is?
The answer is very simple:
Socialism is a transitional stage between Capitalism and Communism.
as is known, Communism will win.

that's all.

Marxism-Leninism.
Using these concepts, you can easily determine what is the USSR, America, Scandinavia, Russia, ... even penguins in Antarctica.

 

[Kit Maskin]

In reality the Democrats are centrist pragmatists ...

A statement that dead gives away what a total Marxist tool that you really are.

dude, what is your education?
Champion Chatterboxer USMB?

 

[daveman]

I'd educate you, but you're ineducable. You're a Marxist.

I am certainly not a marxist. Nobody is -I am for being more like France and everywhere else in the modern world. Marxist means you're for a dictatorship of the proletariat that owns all the production and business. In reality the Democrats are centrist pragmatists while Republicans are right off the flat earth right wing at this point, totally duped by the greedy idiot rich of the GOP. The United States problem is we do not tax the rich enough, it is a flat tax system now. Only propaganda makes this mess possible and crappy cowardly mainstream media.

"In reality the Democrats are centrist pragmatists..."

The Democrats have been edging further to the left for decades.

Only a Marxist would claim they're centrist.

We don't tax the rich enough?
From 2012:

But it’s a fantasy to imagine that raising taxes on the rich will solve our deficit problem. If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion. That’s only a third of this year’s deficit. Our national debt would continue to explode.​

You simply have no idea what the government costs. From 2011:

Feed Your Family on $10 Billion a Day
Seems like these days I hear a lot of whiney whiners whining about "out of control government spending" and "insane deficits" and such, trying to make hay out of a bunch of pointy-head boring finance hooey. Sure, $3.7 trillion of spending sounds like a big number. "Oh, boo-hoo, how are we going to get $3.7 trillion dollars? We're broke, boo-hoo-hoo," whine the whiners. What these skinflint crybabies fail to realize is that $3.7 trillion is for an entire year - which translates into only a measly $10 billion per day!

Mister, I call that a bargain. Especially since it pays for all of us - you and me, the whole American family. Like all families, we Americas have to pay for things - health, food, safety, uncle Dave America with his drinking problem. And when little Billy America wants that new quad runner they promised, do Mom and Dad America deny him? No, they get a second job at Circle K, because they know little Billy might have one of his episodes and burn down the house.

So let's all sit down together as an American family with a calendar and make a yearly budget. First, let's lock in the $3.7 trillion of critical family spending priorities; now let's get to work on collecting the pay-as-we-go $10 billion daily cash flow we need.

12:01 AM, January 1
Let's start the year out right by going after some evil corporations and their obscene profits. And who is more evil than those twin spawns of Lucifer himself, Exxon Mobil and Walmart? Together these two largest American industrial behemoths raked in, between them, $34 billion in 2010 global profits. Let's teach 'em both a lesson and confiscate it for the public good. This will get us through...

9:52 AM January 4
Okay, maybe I underestimated our take. But we shouldn't let Exxon and Walmart distract us from all those other corporate profiteers out there worth shaking down. In fact, why don't we grab every cent of 2010 profit made by the other 498 members of the Fortune 500? That will net us another, let's see, $357 billion! Enough to get us to...

2:00 AM February 9
So we're running out of corporate cash, but look - it's Super Bowl time! As we all know, the game has become a crass disgusting festival of commercialism. So let's take all the TV ad money spent on stupid Super Bowl ads, and apply that to government needs. That would be $250 million, enough to fund us for, let's see... 36 minutes. The half time show, at least. But why stop there? Let's take every cent of ad money spent on all 45 Super Bowls, a cool $5 billion, which would cover us until...

2:00 PM February 9
Speaking of sports, why should the players be immune to our pressing public needs? Lord knows professional athletes make obscene salaries for playing a dumb game. So let's take the combined salaries of all players in the NFL, Major League Baseball, the NBA, and the NHL. Hey, they've got endorsement deals, they'll hardly miss it. Throw in the total winnings of everybody on the PGA tour and NASCAR, and we get $9.4 billion, enough to get us through until...

1:00 PM February 10
Okay, it's time to stop messing around. Athletes aren't the only ones greedily raking it in. What about America's rich - those fancy pants fat cats living the high life in the above-$250,000 income bracket? According to IRS statistics, these 1.93% of US households are hogging 25% of US income. And why do they need it? For crying out loud, they probably stole it anyway. I say let's take 100% of every penny they make above $250,000. They can use the rest to pay their state and local taxes. Now we're talking big bucks, brother. How much? Let's see...

A: Number of US households: 116,000,000
B: Average US household income: $68,000 (median = $52,000)
C: Total US household income (A * B): $7.89 trillion
D: Percent of households above $250k income: 1.93%
E: Number of households above $250k income (A*D): 2,238,800
F: Percent of national income earned by households making $250k or more = 25%
G: Total income of households making $250k or more (C*F): $1.97 trillion
H: Total income of households in excess of $250k (G - E*$250,000) = $1.412 trillion

Alright! Take that, fat cats! Our $1.412 trillion windfall has us covered for the next 141 days, or until...

6:00 PM July 2
Well, I guess maybe there are a few items we can cut from the budget. Those quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan, for example. Why don't we end all funding for those wars, and bring our troops home to march in the Fourth of July parade? That would save us $105 billion Afghanistan and $159 billion in Iraq, a total of $264 billion - enough savings to cover us until...

4:00 AM July 29
Summer blockbuster season! And of course the biggest blockbuster of all time was Star Wars. To punish George Lucas for those stupid sequels, let's confiscate every penny of revenue generated by the Star Wars franchise since 1977 - movies, TV rights, books, toys, action figures, everything - which nets us $25 billion. Enough to keep the lights on until...

4:00 PM August 1
Well, there's plenty more money in Hollywood to go after. So, for the national good, let's evict everyone in Beverly Hills and sell their homes at current market value. 15,000 homes at $2 million per gets us another $30 billion, paying the bills through...

4:00 PM August 4
The kids will be going back to school soon, so we're gonna have to bring out the big guns and really go after those moneybag plutocrats like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates. Between 'em, those two bastards have amassed a combined fortune of $100 billion. What kind of jerk needs that kind of money? The worst thing is they're shielding it from the public treasury using the oldest trick in the billionaire playbook - by continuing to live. Once they kick the bucket, and after we close the estate tax loopholes, the American public will get the 50% of their ill-gotten loot we so richly deserve. So let's say we arrange a couple of unfortunate "accidents" for Mssrs. Gates and Buffett. Now we've got another $50 billion for the US coffers, enough to get us to...

4:00 PM August 9
Aw, screw it. There are plenty more American billionaires to go after - 398 more to be precise, according to the latest Forbes 400, with a combined total net worth of $1.29 trillion. 398 more "accidents," 398 more estates taxed at 50%, and we've got another $650 billion to tide us through...

4:00 PM October 13
Crap. Okay, let's just kill all the billionaires and take all their money. Add in another 100 or so of the almost-billionaires, and that buys us an additional 73 days until...

4:00 PM December 25
Merry Christmas! Just one more week to go. In the spirit of the season, let's give the surviving conservative wingnuts a few of the budget cuts they've been bitching for, like getting rid of foreign aid. This saves $50 billion - getting us to...

4:00 PM December 30
Only 32 hours to go! To cover the remaining $12.5 billion vital federal program tab, let's pass the cash bucket and demand every surviving American man, woman and child to kick in another another $40 bucks. I'm pretty sure they will, after all those previous "accidents."

12:00 AM January 1
Happy New Year!

See? Easy peasy lemon squeezy. Time to do it all again, except this time we'll need to come up with $11 billion per day. I'm sure we'll figure it out somehow.

Do you know where we can get some more plutocrats?​

You won't read this, because it disproves your Marxist bullshit.

Bloody hell, Marxists are stupid about economics.

What a load of hateful crap. Democrats want a society like every other modern country has. And you have to tax the rich more percentage wise than the rest or you get terrible inequality and no investments in the middle class and our infrastructure. You don't know what is going on you are brainwashed by the GOP propaganda machine. It's brilliant but it's garbage. Hillary is honest the rich don't pay enough we are not investing in Americans or infrastructure enough. End of story.

Your butthurt is not a compelling refutation. Run along now.

We have the worst inequality and upward mobility of any modern country.

Have you tried, I dunno, working?

Meanwhile, we're left with the inescapable fact that there simply isn't enough money you can take from people to fund the feel-good bullshit you want.