Some Countries Still Care about Presidents Birth Certificate

[Syriusly]

I saw your non answers.

Posting the following isn't answering any question.

Yes, that is a question that has been around for several years. It is a question that I repeated here hours ago.

You're nothing but a cowardly birther. And you can't even admit what you are.

Which is why I have nothing but distain and disgust with you and people like you.

However what you think about Obama makes absolutely no difference at all. You just don't matter nor do your stupid lies about him.

Obama is the president. He was born in Hawaii in August 1961. No amount of lies will make that not true. No amount of lies is going to negate the fact that he's the president and will be until January 2017.

You don't have to like it. You do have to accept it.

Very good. Just curious, was all of that meant to impress someone? Feel better now? Got all of it off your chest? So, when someone disagrees with you, you go off the deep end and start name calling and personal attacks? Obviously, your medication isn't working.

IF you have any 'legitimate' questions of your own- then ask them- one per post- and I will answer them.

But only if they are what you yourself personally have doubts about- not what you are parroting from Birthers.

Fair enough, great. Thanks. Question #1 - How would you explain what several experts found when examining the birth certificate? They found, after using sophisticated software, that some lines were altered. They showed, by using layers and over-lays, that information had been removed and replaced with the desired information. This was verified by more than one expert. They even included a video showing the process used. To me, it looked authentic and above board. I can research and find it for you so that you can see it for yourself. To me, in my opinion, there's enough there to at least question.

I have always been bemused by these claims.

You do realize that the image that was posted on the internet is not a legal document- right? It is an image- a scanned image- of a certified photocopy of the original birth certificate.

So lets work backwards
Image on internet.
Hardcopy scanned of physical certified photocopy
Physical certified photocopy shown to reporters- handled by reporters- even photographed by reporters.
Physical certified photocopy made by the State of Hawaii- and sent to President Obama.
Original Birth Certificate on file in Hawaii.

Which of those documents are relevant?

Ultimately there are two legal documents- the original birth certificate on file in Hawaii- and the certified photocopy of the original birth certificate.

Those are the documents that matter.

Who do we know for certain that have seen the hardcopy certified photocopy? Several reporters including Savannah Guthrie- who took a photo with her cell phone, and Jake Starkey(?) who confirmed he had seen the BC.

So we have at least two witnesses who have seen the actual legal document that could be presented in court as proof of anyone's place of birth.

Then we have the original on file- and the making of the photocopy. The State of Hawaii has consistently said that the original BC is on file- and that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii- and that the President had posted a copy of the certified photocopy online

Vital Records Frequently Asked Questions about Vital Records of President Barack Hussein Obama II
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT VITAL RECORDS OF PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA II
On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth

Here is what the State of Hawaii specifically said:

HAWAI‘I HEALTH DEPARTMENT GRANTS PRESIDENT OBAMA’S
REQUEST FOR CERTIFIED COPIES OF
‘LONG FORM’ BIRTH CERTIFICATE

HONOLULU – The Hawai„i State Health Department recently complied with a request by
President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth,
which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate.
“We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to
President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai„i,” Hawai„i
Health Director Loretta Fuddy said. “I have seen the original records filed at the
Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the
department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in
Hawai„i.”

On April 22, 2011, President Obama sent a letter to Director Fuddy, requesting two
certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth. Also on that day, Judith Corley,
the President‟s personal attorney, made the same request in writing on behalf of the
President. (Letters from President Obama and Ms. Corley are attached).
On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama‟s request, Director Fuddy personally
witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the
authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the
copies.

So let me tell you- I ignore the Birthers claim that the image on the internet is a forgery. I just ignore them- because Birthers have never seen the legal photocopy that reporters have seen and posted photo's of- and Birthers have never seen the original BC that the State of Hawaii is on file and that is the same as the one posted online, and says that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

Birthers carefully try to dance around this- but the bottom line is this:
The State of Hawaii has confirmed that the Birth Certificate we have seen is authentic and that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Oh did I forget mention that the former Republican Director of Health also confirmed it- in 2008 and 2009?

STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital
records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama
was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement
or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

So why do you care about claims about 'layers' on the image posted online?

Reporters have shown us photo's of the same image they saw of the certified photocopy.
The State of Hawaii has confirmed it is authentic.

Why do you believe some self proclaimed experts who started off believing that the BC was a forgery- and managed to confirm their own bias?

OK. I understand your point. Now, next question please. I believe that asked 3 questions. Would you mind going to number 2 now? Thanks. I will tie all of it together once you're finished, if that's OK with you.

Is your question regarding the authenticity of the birth certificate satisfied?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Question #2 - Articles has been released that points out that at the time of Mr. Obama's birth, the hospitals in Hawaii were not operating with the latest record keeping systems and procedures. Their systems were not updated and brought up to speed until several years after his birth. Therefore, some have said that the original records were transcribed onto what was released as his original birth certificate at a later date. Can you verify or explain away this information with some data or facts that would either disprove this or verify it?

Barack Obama's birth certificate is signed and dated by the doctor that attended his birth.

View attachment 35660

Signed and dated- dated in 4 places- both typed and hand written. Why would the doctor lie about the date?

Are you saying that there's absolutely no chance that the birth certificate could've been transcribed a year or two after Mr. Obama was born? Are you saying that there's no chance that a birth certificate could've been transcribed at a later date, and then signed by the doctor? Are you saying that it's 110% certain that the typed and hand written information was done at the exact same date and time? In other words, there is undeniable proof that the birth certificate was issued within days of his birth, and that all information contained therein was and is original and un-retouched? And, you have the proof? Also, have you researched whether or not the record keeping system was updated at a later time, and thus birth certificates, and other documents, were transcribed? And, are you also saying that document experts can not tell from photo copies whether a document has been altered or not? In other words, you're saying that the technology and software doesn't exist that can detect altered information on documents?

 

[Sonny Clark]

[. Is it so wrong to question something that you're not sure of?

It is never wrong to ask the questions.

I think it is wrong to blindly repost others questions as your own without questioning them first- without doing any research of your own on the claims.

It has been 6 years since President Obama was elected. It has been 3 years since he showed voters copies of his certified birth certificate.

If you still have 'legitimate' questions regarding his birth certificate you have either been too lazy to research it yourself, or unwilling to accept the facts.

I have researched it. I research everything. I never ever take anything at face value. I'm not lazy. And, yes, I do still have questions concerning Mr. Obama.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Question #3 - Where did the information come from that insisted that Mr. Obama was a foreign student, used a different name, and was here in this country on a student visa?

I have no idea- Birthers make crap up. Sorry- I can't help you figure out Birther fantasies- that is a question you should ask Birthers.

Barack Obama had a nickname of Barry that he used until he was in college. That of course is not unusual. We have lots of Presidents who have had nicknames. Birthers like to call Obama Soetoro- which was his step fathers name. There is only one document that calls Barack Obama 'Barry Soetoro'- and that is a registration page for a school in Indonesia- signed by his step father.

Why did his step father call him 'Barry Soetoro'? I don't know- and since the step father and Obama's mother are both dead- no one is alive who could say why.

But what Birthers who bring that up ALWAYS fail to say is that that registration says that 'Barry Soetoro' was born in Hawaii.

So ask yourself- why do Birthers use that document to question Obama's name- but ignore that document when it comes to place of birth?

I have no idea as to the "why". But, the question has never been fully explained. There has been a ton of speculations, but no one has ever present a sound and believable reason for it. In addition, you're saying, or claiming, that Mr. Obama was never registered as a foreign student here in the U.S? Am I correct? He was never registered under any other name while living in the United States? Is that what you're saying? And, is everything that you're telling me, verified by you as to it's authenticity and truth? In other words, you're assuring me that you have done all necessary homework on the subject, and have exhausted every lead and path, and have reached your conclusions based on factual data? Everything that you're telling me is other than your own personal opinion?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Very good. Just curious, was all of that meant to impress someone? Feel better now? Got all of it off your chest? So, when someone disagrees with you, you go off the deep end and start name calling and personal attacks? Obviously, your medication isn't working.

IF you have any 'legitimate' questions of your own- then ask them- one per post- and I will answer them.

But only if they are what you yourself personally have doubts about- not what you are parroting from Birthers.

Fair enough, great. Thanks. Question #1 - How would you explain what several experts found when examining the birth certificate? They found, after using sophisticated software, that some lines were altered. They showed, by using layers and over-lays, that information had been removed and replaced with the desired information. This was verified by more than one expert. They even included a video showing the process used. To me, it looked authentic and above board. I can research and find it for you so that you can see it for yourself. To me, in my opinion, there's enough there to at least question.

I have always been bemused by these claims.

You do realize that the image that was posted on the internet is not a legal document- right? It is an image- a scanned image- of a certified photocopy of the original birth certificate.

So lets work backwards
Image on internet.
Hardcopy scanned of physical certified photocopy
Physical certified photocopy shown to reporters- handled by reporters- even photographed by reporters.
Physical certified photocopy made by the State of Hawaii- and sent to President Obama.
Original Birth Certificate on file in Hawaii.

Which of those documents are relevant?

Ultimately there are two legal documents- the original birth certificate on file in Hawaii- and the certified photocopy of the original birth certificate.

Those are the documents that matter.

Who do we know for certain that have seen the hardcopy certified photocopy? Several reporters including Savannah Guthrie- who took a photo with her cell phone, and Jake Starkey(?) who confirmed he had seen the BC.

So we have at least two witnesses who have seen the actual legal document that could be presented in court as proof of anyone's place of birth.

Then we have the original on file- and the making of the photocopy. The State of Hawaii has consistently said that the original BC is on file- and that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii- and that the President had posted a copy of the certified photocopy online

Vital Records Frequently Asked Questions about Vital Records of President Barack Hussein Obama II
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT VITAL RECORDS OF PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA II
On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth

Here is what the State of Hawaii specifically said:

HAWAI‘I HEALTH DEPARTMENT GRANTS PRESIDENT OBAMA’S
REQUEST FOR CERTIFIED COPIES OF
‘LONG FORM’ BIRTH CERTIFICATE

HONOLULU – The Hawai„i State Health Department recently complied with a request by
President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth,
which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate.
“We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to
President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai„i,” Hawai„i
Health Director Loretta Fuddy said. “I have seen the original records filed at the
Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the
department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in
Hawai„i.”

On April 22, 2011, President Obama sent a letter to Director Fuddy, requesting two
certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth. Also on that day, Judith Corley,
the President‟s personal attorney, made the same request in writing on behalf of the
President. (Letters from President Obama and Ms. Corley are attached).
On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama‟s request, Director Fuddy personally
witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the
authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the
copies.

So let me tell you- I ignore the Birthers claim that the image on the internet is a forgery. I just ignore them- because Birthers have never seen the legal photocopy that reporters have seen and posted photo's of- and Birthers have never seen the original BC that the State of Hawaii is on file and that is the same as the one posted online, and says that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

Birthers carefully try to dance around this- but the bottom line is this:
The State of Hawaii has confirmed that the Birth Certificate we have seen is authentic and that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Oh did I forget mention that the former Republican Director of Health also confirmed it- in 2008 and 2009?

STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital
records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama
was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement
or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

So why do you care about claims about 'layers' on the image posted online?

Reporters have shown us photo's of the same image they saw of the certified photocopy.
The State of Hawaii has confirmed it is authentic.

Why do you believe some self proclaimed experts who started off believing that the BC was a forgery- and managed to confirm their own bias?

OK. I understand your point. Now, next question please. I believe that asked 3 questions. Would you mind going to number 2 now? Thanks. I will tie all of it together once you're finished, if that's OK with you.

Is your question regarding the authenticity of the birth certificate satisfied?

It will be when you address the question about the record keeping method used at the time of his birth, and whether or not it's possible that it could have been transcribed at a later date. I believe that is my question #2 on the list that I gave you.

 

[Syriusly]

Question #2 - Articles has been released that points out that at the time of Mr. Obama's birth, the hospitals in Hawaii were not operating with the latest record keeping systems and procedures. Their systems were not updated and brought up to speed until several years after his birth. Therefore, some have said that the original records were transcribed onto what was released as his original birth certificate at a later date. Can you verify or explain away this information with some data or facts that would either disprove this or verify it?

Barack Obama's birth certificate is signed and dated by the doctor that attended his birth.

View attachment 35660

Signed and dated- dated in 4 places- both typed and hand written. Why would the doctor lie about the date?

Are you saying that there's absolutely no chance that the birth certificate could've been transcribed a year or two after Mr. Obama was born? Are you saying that there's no chance that a birth certificate could've been transcribed at a later date, and then signed by the doctor? Are you saying that it's 110% certain that the typed and hand written information was done at the exact same date and time? In other words, there is undeniable proof that the birth certificate was issued within days of his birth, and that all information contained therein was and is original and un-retouched? And, you have the proof? Also, have you researched whether or not the record keeping system was updated at a later time, and thus birth certificates, and other documents, were transcribed? And, are you also saying that document experts can not tell from photo copies whether a document has been altered or not? In other words, you're saying that the technology and software doesn't exist that can detect altered information on documents?

Sigh.
Are you saying that there is absolutely no chance that George Washington was really a spy for France?

Look- Birth certificates exist for one purpose- as proof of place and time of birth. They are the legal evidence. I am saying that the legal evidence show that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

I am saying that not only has that been satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt- I am saying that we know with far, far more certainty where Barack Obama was born than we know of where George Bush or Bill Clinton was born.

Nothing is '110%' certain- the Constitution may not exist- even though I have seen what appears to be the Constitution through a window.

What we have is 100% legal proof that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Which is more than we have ever had for any other President.

There are wingnuts who to this day insist that the moon landings may have been faked. And 20 years from now there will still be Birthers who say Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii.

But I go with the evidence- and the evidence is rock solid.

 

[Dana7360]

Here they are-

Quoting you:
Why would the president of the United States have his/her college records sealed and labeled "off limits"?

Why would the president of the United States use a foreign student ID, with a different name ( Barry Sorrento ) to get into college?

Why doesn't anyone that attended college at the same time as Mr. Obama remember him?

You have not actually dealt with any of your claims- other than to provide the image of the faked college ID.

You have not responded to any of the evidence that your claims are bogus.

You claimed that no one remembers Obama from college- and I have shown that to be completely false.

I have asked you numerous times to stand behind your claims- and then you just claim to 'have questions'.

I have just addressed them and answered them. Scroll down and you'll see my answers.

All you did was say that it's been floating around. You didn't answer the questions.

The reason for it is all you stated has been proven as the lies they are. Yet you still cling to the lies. Yet you still don't give any real and honest replies.

You're a birther and too cowardly to admit it and honestly answer any questions.

I answered each and every question, and even numbered the questions and my answers. Didn't you see them? Want me to copy them and paste them for you to see? Yes, I did answer the questions. Can't you read and understand what you read? Yes, all of those claims have been floating around for several years. And, yes, on some of the issues, I also have questions as to whether those claims are true or false. I do NOT believe that everyone is making this stuff up, nor fabricating lies. I disagree that all of it has been proven to be lies. I challenge you to show where and when all of it was proven to be lies. Please show where experts without any bias, has examined all the information, and has determined all claims to be totally false. FYI - Every reply that I give is honest, and a true representation of what I have said and what I believe to be the case.

What have I not been honest about? Please tell me what it is that I have not been honest about.

I saw your non answers.

Posting the following isn't answering any question.

Yes, that is a question that has been around for several years. It is a question that I repeated here hours ago.

You're nothing but a cowardly birther. And you can't even admit what you are.

Which is why I have nothing but distain and disgust with you and people like you.

However what you think about Obama makes absolutely no difference at all. You just don't matter nor do your stupid lies about him.

Obama is the president. He was born in Hawaii in August 1961. No amount of lies will make that not true. No amount of lies is going to negate the fact that he's the president and will be until January 2017.

You don't have to like it. You do have to accept it.

Very good. Just curious, was all of that meant to impress someone? Feel better now? Got all of it off your chest? So, when someone disagrees with you, you go off the deep end and start name calling and personal attacks? Obviously, your medication isn't working.

Disagreeing is on opinions. You can't disagree on honest facts.

I've been posting facts. You consider what you post opinion.

Yes you're free to be as stupid as you want. I certainly won't stop you.

You're just like all birthers, no amount of honest facts will ever penetrate your brain. You've made your mind up and there's nothing anyone can do to change it.

That's fine. Just expect intelligent people to have nothing but contempt and scorn for you. We won't pity you because you choose to be this way.

You can write all the insults and personal attacks you want. It will never change reality. Which is that Barack Obama is the president of the United States. He was born on the island of Oahu in the state of Hawaii in August 1961. He is the president and will remain president until January 2017.

There's absolutely nothing your lies can do about it.

Don't bother to reply, I won't read it. You're a waste of my time.

 

[Syriusly]

IF you have any 'legitimate' questions of your own- then ask them- one per post- and I will answer them.

But only if they are what you yourself personally have doubts about- not what you are parroting from Birthers.

Fair enough, great. Thanks. Question #1 - How would you explain what several experts found when examining the birth certificate? They found, after using sophisticated software, that some lines were altered. They showed, by using layers and over-lays, that information had been removed and replaced with the desired information. This was verified by more than one expert. They even included a video showing the process used. To me, it looked authentic and above board. I can research and find it for you so that you can see it for yourself. To me, in my opinion, there's enough there to at least question.

I have always been bemused by these claims.

You do realize that the image that was posted on the internet is not a legal document- right? It is an image- a scanned image- of a certified photocopy of the original birth certificate.

So lets work backwards
Image on internet.
Hardcopy scanned of physical certified photocopy
Physical certified photocopy shown to reporters- handled by reporters- even photographed by reporters.
Physical certified photocopy made by the State of Hawaii- and sent to President Obama.
Original Birth Certificate on file in Hawaii.

Which of those documents are relevant?

Ultimately there are two legal documents- the original birth certificate on file in Hawaii- and the certified photocopy of the original birth certificate.

Those are the documents that matter.

Who do we know for certain that have seen the hardcopy certified photocopy? Several reporters including Savannah Guthrie- who took a photo with her cell phone, and Jake Starkey(?) who confirmed he had seen the BC.

So we have at least two witnesses who have seen the actual legal document that could be presented in court as proof of anyone's place of birth.

Then we have the original on file- and the making of the photocopy. The State of Hawaii has consistently said that the original BC is on file- and that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii- and that the President had posted a copy of the certified photocopy online

Vital Records Frequently Asked Questions about Vital Records of President Barack Hussein Obama II
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT VITAL RECORDS OF PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA II
On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth

Here is what the State of Hawaii specifically said:

HAWAI‘I HEALTH DEPARTMENT GRANTS PRESIDENT OBAMA’S
REQUEST FOR CERTIFIED COPIES OF
‘LONG FORM’ BIRTH CERTIFICATE

HONOLULU – The Hawai„i State Health Department recently complied with a request by
President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth,
which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate.
“We hope that issuing certified copies of the original Certificate of Live Birth to
President Obama will end the numerous inquiries related to his birth in Hawai„i,” Hawai„i
Health Director Loretta Fuddy said. “I have seen the original records filed at the
Department of Health and attest to the authenticity of the certified copies the
department provided to the President that further prove the fact that he was born in
Hawai„i.”

On April 22, 2011, President Obama sent a letter to Director Fuddy, requesting two
certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth. Also on that day, Judith Corley,
the President‟s personal attorney, made the same request in writing on behalf of the
President. (Letters from President Obama and Ms. Corley are attached).
On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama‟s request, Director Fuddy personally
witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the
authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the
copies.

So let me tell you- I ignore the Birthers claim that the image on the internet is a forgery. I just ignore them- because Birthers have never seen the legal photocopy that reporters have seen and posted photo's of- and Birthers have never seen the original BC that the State of Hawaii is on file and that is the same as the one posted online, and says that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

Birthers carefully try to dance around this- but the bottom line is this:
The State of Hawaii has confirmed that the Birth Certificate we have seen is authentic and that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Oh did I forget mention that the former Republican Director of Health also confirmed it- in 2008 and 2009?

STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital
records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama
was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement
or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”

So why do you care about claims about 'layers' on the image posted online?

Reporters have shown us photo's of the same image they saw of the certified photocopy.
The State of Hawaii has confirmed it is authentic.

Why do you believe some self proclaimed experts who started off believing that the BC was a forgery- and managed to confirm their own bias?

OK. I understand your point. Now, next question please. I believe that asked 3 questions. Would you mind going to number 2 now? Thanks. I will tie all of it together once you're finished, if that's OK with you.

Is your question regarding the authenticity of the birth certificate satisfied?

It will be when you address the question about the record keeping method used at the time of his birth, and whether or not it's possible that it could have been transcribed at a later date. I believe that is my question #2 on the list that I gave you.

Believe what you will.

There is an irrationality to your approach. Do you demand such proof for everything in your life?

Seriously- what proof do you accept from your doctor that he is capable of training you? By your standard you can't trust his medical license. You can't even trust what his medical school says.

Rather you rely upon Yelp comments.

 

[Syriusly]

Question #3 - Where did the information come from that insisted that Mr. Obama was a foreign student, used a different name, and was here in this country on a student visa?

I have no idea- Birthers make crap up. Sorry- I can't help you figure out Birther fantasies- that is a question you should ask Birthers.

Barack Obama had a nickname of Barry that he used until he was in college. That of course is not unusual. We have lots of Presidents who have had nicknames. Birthers like to call Obama Soetoro- which was his step fathers name. There is only one document that calls Barack Obama 'Barry Soetoro'- and that is a registration page for a school in Indonesia- signed by his step father.

Why did his step father call him 'Barry Soetoro'? I don't know- and since the step father and Obama's mother are both dead- no one is alive who could say why.

But what Birthers who bring that up ALWAYS fail to say is that that registration says that 'Barry Soetoro' was born in Hawaii.

So ask yourself- why do Birthers use that document to question Obama's name- but ignore that document when it comes to place of birth?

I have no idea as to the "why". But, the question has never been fully explained. There has been a ton of speculations, but no one has ever present a sound and believable reason for it. In addition, you're saying, or claiming, that Mr. Obama was never registered as a foreign student here in the U.S? Am I correct? He was never registered under any other name while living in the United States? Is that what you're saying? And, is everything that you're telling me, verified by you as to it's authenticity and truth? In other words, you're assuring me that you have done all necessary homework on the subject, and have exhausted every lead and path, and have reached your conclusions based on factual data? Everything that you're telling me is other than your own personal opinion?

It is essentially impossible to prove a negative.

I have never seen a single piece of evidence that Barack Obama- or any other President- was ever registered here as a foreign student.

Every single Birther claim I have seen has been nothing more than that- an unsubstantiated claim.

No Birther has ever proven that he was registered here as a foreign student.

Furthermore- since I am in the near range to President Obama's birth- and went to college almost at the same time as he did- I knew foreign students- and believe me- they would have preferred to be registered as American students.

There was no benefit to being a foreign student- so the claim doesn't pass the smell test.

But you can continue to be influenced by Birther lies, speculation and innuendo- you realize that you have not yet presented any Birther claim that is more than that right?

I would be more impressed if you were demanding that Birthers prove any of their claims.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Question #2 - Articles has been released that points out that at the time of Mr. Obama's birth, the hospitals in Hawaii were not operating with the latest record keeping systems and procedures. Their systems were not updated and brought up to speed until several years after his birth. Therefore, some have said that the original records were transcribed onto what was released as his original birth certificate at a later date. Can you verify or explain away this information with some data or facts that would either disprove this or verify it?

Barack Obama's birth certificate is signed and dated by the doctor that attended his birth.

View attachment 35660

Signed and dated- dated in 4 places- both typed and hand written. Why would the doctor lie about the date?

Are you saying that there's absolutely no chance that the birth certificate could've been transcribed a year or two after Mr. Obama was born? Are you saying that there's no chance that a birth certificate could've been transcribed at a later date, and then signed by the doctor? Are you saying that it's 110% certain that the typed and hand written information was done at the exact same date and time? In other words, there is undeniable proof that the birth certificate was issued within days of his birth, and that all information contained therein was and is original and un-retouched? And, you have the proof? Also, have you researched whether or not the record keeping system was updated at a later time, and thus birth certificates, and other documents, were transcribed? And, are you also saying that document experts can not tell from photo copies whether a document has been altered or not? In other words, you're saying that the technology and software doesn't exist that can detect altered information on documents?

Sigh.
Are you saying that there is absolutely no chance that George Washington was really a spy for France?

Look- Birth certificates exist for one purpose- as proof of place and time of birth. They are the legal evidence. I am saying that the legal evidence show that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

I am saying that not only has that been satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt- I am saying that we know with far, far more certainty where Barack Obama was born than we know of where George Bush or Bill Clinton was born.

Nothing is '110%' certain- the Constitution may not exist- even though I have seen what appears to be the Constitution through a window.

What we have is 100% legal proof that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Which is more than we have ever had for any other President.

There are wingnuts who to this day insist that the moon landings may have been faked. And 20 years from now there will still be Birthers who say Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii.

But I go with the evidence- and the evidence is rock solid.

I totally understand and get your points. I respect your opinion and your right to express it. But, what I was asking of you, is not what you think or believe to be the case, rather what you have yourself proven to be factual and authentic. There's a huge different between what I thing and what you think, and what anyone else thinks, and actual FACTS. We all can have opinions, and we all do. To you, everything is inline with factual and authentic representation, and that's fine. I have no problem with that. But, what makes your opinion any more credible than John Q. Public's opinion? In other words, you feel very strongly that everything is above board considering the sources that have put out the information. Yet, you have absolutely no more than someone that uses different sources for their information. You believe that everyone should accept your sources of information, and believe as you do. And, you totally discard, disregard, and slander anything that differs from your strong opinion.

My opinion mean absolutely nothing because I have used different sources and experts than you have used. There are a ton of questions concerning what I have looked at, but everything that you have looked at is gospel, and should never be questioned. We both presented what we thought was an area that had merit. I believe there are legitimate questions that still don't have satisfactory answers. You believe that your sources have answered all of your questions, and you believe what they say is the ONLY correct answers.

I ask you again, please verify or prove that no documents were ever transcribed from previous records, and that the medical facilities in Hawaii, at the time of Mr. Obama's birth, used the documents and data attested to that have been publicly shown to be authentic copies of the birth certificate in question. Also, please provide the differences between the experts that I used and the ones you used. Are yours more qualified to examine documents than the ones that I have mentioned in links? Have you anything besides your opinion that you'd like to offer, or the opinion of others?

 

[Syriusly]

Question #2 - Articles has been released that points out that at the time of Mr. Obama's birth, the hospitals in Hawaii were not operating with the latest record keeping systems and procedures. Their systems were not updated and brought up to speed until several years after his birth. Therefore, some have said that the original records were transcribed onto what was released as his original birth certificate at a later date. Can you verify or explain away this information with some data or facts that would either disprove this or verify it?

Barack Obama's birth certificate is signed and dated by the doctor that attended his birth.

View attachment 35660

Signed and dated- dated in 4 places- both typed and hand written. Why would the doctor lie about the date?

Are you saying that there's absolutely no chance that the birth certificate could've been transcribed a year or two after Mr. Obama was born? Are you saying that there's no chance that a birth certificate could've been transcribed at a later date, and then signed by the doctor? Are you saying that it's 110% certain that the typed and hand written information was done at the exact same date and time? In other words, there is undeniable proof that the birth certificate was issued within days of his birth, and that all information contained therein was and is original and un-retouched? And, you have the proof? Also, have you researched whether or not the record keeping system was updated at a later time, and thus birth certificates, and other documents, were transcribed? And, are you also saying that document experts can not tell from photo copies whether a document has been altered or not? In other words, you're saying that the technology and software doesn't exist that can detect altered information on documents?

Sigh.
Are you saying that there is absolutely no chance that George Washington was really a spy for France?

Look- Birth certificates exist for one purpose- as proof of place and time of birth. They are the legal evidence. I am saying that the legal evidence show that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

I am saying that not only has that been satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt- I am saying that we know with far, far more certainty where Barack Obama was born than we know of where George Bush or Bill Clinton was born.

Nothing is '110%' certain- the Constitution may not exist- even though I have seen what appears to be the Constitution through a window.

What we have is 100% legal proof that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Which is more than we have ever had for any other President.

There are wingnuts who to this day insist that the moon landings may have been faked. And 20 years from now there will still be Birthers who say Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii.

But I go with the evidence- and the evidence is rock solid.

I totally understand and get your points. I respect your opinion and your right to express it. But, what I was asking of you, is not what you think or believe to be the case, rather what you have yourself proven to be factual and authentic. There's a huge different between what I thing and what you think, and what anyone else thinks, and actual FACTS.

I have seen the facts that establish beyond a reasonable doubt that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

I have seen the image of this birth certificate. His birth certificate- and place of birth has been confirmed by three different Hawaiian officials who have the legal responsibility for the records- their confirmations are online at the official Hawaiian website.

That is all I need.

I treat all Presidents the same- I never demanded or expected that any President provide any of this information.

Barack Obama has proven beyond any previous President that he is legally eligible to be President.

Like I said- I go with the evidence- and the evidence is rock solid.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Question #2 - Articles has been released that points out that at the time of Mr. Obama's birth, the hospitals in Hawaii were not operating with the latest record keeping systems and procedures. Their systems were not updated and brought up to speed until several years after his birth. Therefore, some have said that the original records were transcribed onto what was released as his original birth certificate at a later date. Can you verify or explain away this information with some data or facts that would either disprove this or verify it?

Barack Obama's birth certificate is signed and dated by the doctor that attended his birth.

View attachment 35660

Signed and dated- dated in 4 places- both typed and hand written. Why would the doctor lie about the date?

Are you saying that there's absolutely no chance that the birth certificate could've been transcribed a year or two after Mr. Obama was born? Are you saying that there's no chance that a birth certificate could've been transcribed at a later date, and then signed by the doctor? Are you saying that it's 110% certain that the typed and hand written information was done at the exact same date and time? In other words, there is undeniable proof that the birth certificate was issued within days of his birth, and that all information contained therein was and is original and un-retouched? And, you have the proof? Also, have you researched whether or not the record keeping system was updated at a later time, and thus birth certificates, and other documents, were transcribed? And, are you also saying that document experts can not tell from photo copies whether a document has been altered or not? In other words, you're saying that the technology and software doesn't exist that can detect altered information on documents?

Sigh.
Are you saying that there is absolutely no chance that George Washington was really a spy for France?

Look- Birth certificates exist for one purpose- as proof of place and time of birth. They are the legal evidence. I am saying that the legal evidence show that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

I am saying that not only has that been satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt- I am saying that we know with far, far more certainty where Barack Obama was born than we know of where George Bush or Bill Clinton was born.

Nothing is '110%' certain- the Constitution may not exist- even though I have seen what appears to be the Constitution through a window.

What we have is 100% legal proof that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Which is more than we have ever had for any other President.

There are wingnuts who to this day insist that the moon landings may have been faked. And 20 years from now there will still be Birthers who say Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii.

But I go with the evidence- and the evidence is rock solid.

I totally understand and get your points. I respect your opinion and your right to express it. But, what I was asking of you, is not what you think or believe to be the case, rather what you have yourself proven to be factual and authentic. There's a huge different between what I thing and what you think, and what anyone else thinks, and actual FACTS.

I have seen the facts that establish beyond a reasonable doubt that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

I have seen the image of this birth certificate. His birth certificate- and place of birth has been confirmed by three different Hawaiian officials who have the legal responsibility for the records- their confirmations are online at the official Hawaiian website.

That is all I need.

I treat all Presidents the same- I never demanded or expected that any President provide any of this information.

Barack Obama has proven beyond any previous President that he is legally eligible to be President.

Like I said- I go with the evidence- and the evidence is rock solid.

I appreciate the conversation and the very nice debate. You're to be commended for your strong belief and determination. I admire that. Even though we didn't come to an agreement, it was a real pleasure discussing the issue with someone that has the spirit of debate that you have. I hope that we can do this again on other topics. And, who knows, you may be right after all. Thanks again for the pleasant debate.

 

[Syriusly]

Barack Obama's birth certificate is signed and dated by the doctor that attended his birth.

View attachment 35660

Signed and dated- dated in 4 places- both typed and hand written. Why would the doctor lie about the date?

Are you saying that there's absolutely no chance that the birth certificate could've been transcribed a year or two after Mr. Obama was born? Are you saying that there's no chance that a birth certificate could've been transcribed at a later date, and then signed by the doctor? Are you saying that it's 110% certain that the typed and hand written information was done at the exact same date and time? In other words, there is undeniable proof that the birth certificate was issued within days of his birth, and that all information contained therein was and is original and un-retouched? And, you have the proof? Also, have you researched whether or not the record keeping system was updated at a later time, and thus birth certificates, and other documents, were transcribed? And, are you also saying that document experts can not tell from photo copies whether a document has been altered or not? In other words, you're saying that the technology and software doesn't exist that can detect altered information on documents?

Sigh.
Are you saying that there is absolutely no chance that George Washington was really a spy for France?

Look- Birth certificates exist for one purpose- as proof of place and time of birth. They are the legal evidence. I am saying that the legal evidence show that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

I am saying that not only has that been satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt- I am saying that we know with far, far more certainty where Barack Obama was born than we know of where George Bush or Bill Clinton was born.

Nothing is '110%' certain- the Constitution may not exist- even though I have seen what appears to be the Constitution through a window.

What we have is 100% legal proof that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.

Which is more than we have ever had for any other President.

There are wingnuts who to this day insist that the moon landings may have been faked. And 20 years from now there will still be Birthers who say Barack Obama was not born in Hawaii.

But I go with the evidence- and the evidence is rock solid.

I totally understand and get your points. I respect your opinion and your right to express it. But, what I was asking of you, is not what you think or believe to be the case, rather what you have yourself proven to be factual and authentic. There's a huge different between what I thing and what you think, and what anyone else thinks, and actual FACTS.

I have seen the facts that establish beyond a reasonable doubt that President Obama was born in Hawaii.

I have seen the image of this birth certificate. His birth certificate- and place of birth has been confirmed by three different Hawaiian officials who have the legal responsibility for the records- their confirmations are online at the official Hawaiian website.

That is all I need.

I treat all Presidents the same- I never demanded or expected that any President provide any of this information.

Barack Obama has proven beyond any previous President that he is legally eligible to be President.

Like I said- I go with the evidence- and the evidence is rock solid.

I appreciate the conversation and the very nice debate. You're to be commended for your strong belief and determination. I admire that. Even though we didn't come to an agreement, it was a real pleasure discussing the issue with someone that has the spirit of debate that you have. I hope that we can do this again on other topics. And, who knows, you may be right after all. Thanks again for the pleasant debate.

You are welcome.

I look forward to your challenging Birthers claims also.

 

[candycorn]

Still waiting for the names of the "experts" who think the long form birth certificate was forged.