Some Inconvenient Facts About Social Security

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 78740" data-quote="struth" data-source="post: 31571012" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571012" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571012">struth said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> no no it’s a tax…literally called a tax. You pay 6.2 percent your employer pays the other half for you…unless your are self employed then you pay 12.4 percent of your income. <br /> <br /> and you have no right to benefits…see Fleming v Nester 1960 </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Why do you dumbasses keep citing a case where the person claiming SS was deported?</div>

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 78740" data-quote="struth" data-source="post: 31571062" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571062" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571062">struth said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> wow reading comp is a problem for you. i said that in response to show that it wasn’t a right </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Then you need to learn to fucking write better, because that had nothing to do with the topic.</div>

 

[miketx]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 78740" data-quote="struth" data-source="post: 31571012" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571012" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571012">struth said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> no no it’s a tax…literally called a tax. You pay 6.2 percent your employer pays the other half for you…unless your are self employed then you pay 12.4 percent of your income. <br /> <br /> and you have no right to benefits…see Fleming v Nester 1960 </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Lying pos. Die.</div>

 

[80zephyr]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 56040" data-quote="Admiral Rockwell Tory" data-source="post: 31571072" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571072" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571072">Admiral Rockwell Tory said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Why do you dumbasses keep citing a case where the person claiming SS was deported? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Why does that matter? The decision was not limited to people who are deported.</div>

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 48120" data-quote="80zephyr" data-source="post: 31571418" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571418" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571418">80zephyr said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Why does that matter? The decision was not limited to people who are deported. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>You better read the case.</div>

 

[80zephyr]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 56040" data-quote="Admiral Rockwell Tory" data-source="post: 31571450" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571450" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571450">Admiral Rockwell Tory said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> You better read the case. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><b>The Supreme Court disagreed, saying “To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of ‘accrued property rights’ would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever changing conditions which it demands.” The Court went on to say, “It is apparent that the non‐contractual interest of an employee covered by the [Social Security] Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments.”</b><br /> <br /> Where does it mention deportation?</div>

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 48120" data-quote="80zephyr" data-source="post: 31571485" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571485" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571485">80zephyr said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> <b>The Supreme Court disagreed, saying “To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of ‘accrued property rights’ would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever changing conditions which it demands.” The Court went on to say, “It is apparent that the non‐contractual interest of an employee covered by the [Social Security] Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments.”</b><br /> <br /> Where does it mention deportation? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>The person suing was deported. You are using the wrong court case.</div>

 

[80zephyr]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 56040" data-quote="Admiral Rockwell Tory" data-source="post: 31571515" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571515" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571515">Admiral Rockwell Tory said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> The person suing was deported. You are using the wrong court case. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>No, I&#039;m not. <br /> <br /> <div> <a href="https://www.cato.org/commentary/there-right-social-security" class="link link--external" target="_blank" rel="nofollow ugc noopener" data-proxy-href=""> https://www.cato.org/commentary/there-right-social-security </a> </div></div>

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 48120" data-quote="80zephyr" data-source="post: 31571564" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571564" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571564">80zephyr said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> No, I&#039;m not.<br /> <br /> <div> <a href="https://www.cato.org/commentary/there-right-social-security" class="link link--external" target="_blank" rel="nofollow ugc noopener" data-proxy-href=""> https://www.cato.org/commentary/there-right-social-security </a> </div> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>The Cato Institute is well-known for their lies and misinterpretations.</div>

 

[Lesh]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 56416" data-quote="miketx" data-source="post: 31570899" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31570899" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31570899">miketx said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Lying pos. You scum wanna see blood run, cancel SS. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Exactly.<br /> <br /> Keep your fucking hands off my social security</div>

 

[Lesh]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 56040" data-quote="Admiral Rockwell Tory" data-source="post: 31571591" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571591" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571591">Admiral Rockwell Tory said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> The Cato Institute is well-known for their lies and misinterpretations. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Technically they are correct. We don’t have a legal “right” to social security benefits.<br /> <br /> The guy in that case was deported and they ruled that since he (like anyone else) had no right to SS, he lost it.<br /> <br /> It is however a political reality.<br /> <br /> Keep those grubby mitts off my social security</div>

 

[jbander]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 89101" data-quote="Lord Long Rod" data-source="post: 31556251" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31556251" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31556251">Lord Long Rod said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Virtually all of the aged denizens of this great nation express similar opinions on Social Security regardless of political affiliation, to wit: “I paid into Social Security. It’s MY money. I am entitled to get it back when I retire.”<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> I know you were “promised” this benefit by the federal government, and that you donated 6% of your gross earnings to this purportedly noble system in good faith. Therefore, you are willing to fight tooth and nail to protect this program. I get it. Your feelings are understandable. It is the fair thing to occur.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> However, maybe it is time for older Americans to consider Social Security benefits in a very different light. Instead of viewing Social Security as a good faith pact between contributors (forced contributors) and big daddy government, who knows what’s best for you; perhaps try considering Social Security as an elaborate, government sanctioned Ponzi scheme you were drawn into and fucked by.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> There is no real Social Security trust fund. You have been lied to in order to gain your trust. Your SS contributions go into the general federal fund. You pay into a fungible fund, the feds draw from said funds to, inter alia, buy weapons, build roads to nowhere, and to finance tranny education in Pakistan. Then Congress authorizes spending a certain amount of SS funding in its periodic appropriations bills. Thus, the federal government receives your “investment”, spends it on whatever, then will pay you a “return” on your investment as funds are available to do so. When funds are no longer available to pay you a return, then you are fucked and there is nothing you can do about it. This is the heart of all Ponzi schemes.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Moreover, the monthly payments you SS trough feeders are receiving today is not YOUR money. YOUR money was spent decades ago. Your benefits are from the money being forcibly taken from people today. Your benefits are being doled out somewhat loosely based on the amount you have “paid in” (I.e., had taken from you involuntarily) over the years. But that is the only nexus between you and the money the government is giving you.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Social Security theoretically should not “go broke”. Every person is forced to give up 6% of their gross incomes. Recipients become eligible for SS payments at 65 (62 if you agree to reduce the monthly payment to which you are “entitled”. Thus, you have revenue funneled into the system by working folks, then being paid out to old, dying folks. If there was a “trust fund” being administered solely for retirement payments, then they could tweak the system to keep it solvent (e.g., increase contribution requirements; raise age of eligibility; reduce benefits; invest corpus of trust in conservative assets - e.g., municipal bonds - that have low risk but will grow the fund; etc…). But this is not how it works. There is no trustee administrator with a fiduciary duty to payees like there is with a private trust. The effective “administrator” of this fake “fund” is 535 senators and representatives who have no fiduciary interest to manage your Social Security benefits in a manner to ensure YOUR best interests are accounted for. A true trust fund would mot be subject to political interests.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> If a real trust fund goes broke, then there is a big problem in terms of law and ethics. Somebody is either going to prison or will be subject to civil liability. However, there is no such redress if the fake SS fund “goes broke”. The only redress is political.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> As mentioned, there is actually no trust fund to “go broke”. Rather, it boils down to projected spending. The “contributions” to SS (I.e., the 6% involuntary deduction taken from your gross pay) are going down while the benefits payments are increasing, all based upon changing demographics. Moreover, the out of control federal spending is causing the value of the dollar to decrease. This exacerbates the spending shortfall.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> So, the nonexistent “fund” is not running out of money. Rather, projections show that it will be impossible to sustain the Social Security hand-outs -which accounts for a HUGE portion of the federal budget - at current revenue levels. In short, you retired Americans who rely upon this scheme to make ends meet are fucked. Perhaps you should go back to school and learn to code?<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Don’t feel bad. I understand your anger. This is not the first time big government has lied to its subjects. Most older Americans are essentially dependent upon their Social Security payments. They are economic slaves on the plantation. They were promised Utopian retirement years, free of all obligations so they could spend their golden years fishing, knitting, and catching the “early bird special” down at the Country Buffet. But in reality they are economic slavery. They are made to fight tooth and nail to keep this financial boondoggle in place. They need their meager SS payment, and the government wants this large source of revenue. This is why it is so taboo, and politically destructive, to talk about common sense solutions to this coming disaster.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Americans need to get over their aversion to admitting that the federal government duped them into the Social Security Ponzi game. You were TAXED involuntarily for SS; you did not “contribute”. It is not “your money”, it’s the federal government’s money and they will spend it according to appropriations bills. And YOU let it happen this way.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> When you look at this rationally it is clear that we are going to have to make big changes to this program. It cannot be avoided. SS represents a huge part of our budget. We should not run from this challenge. It fact, it is morally indefensible to ignore this. Politicians have been content to kick the can down the road lest they are portrayed in campaign ads as pushing grandma off the cliff.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> There’s ways to address this. You can offset SS payments by giving tax cuts and deductions to families who take care of elder family members, in whole or in part. This costs us nothing. Rather, it can be “paid for” (a very misleading political term in this context) by cutting spending elsewhere. Further, it will make the nursing and assisted living homes more competitive and, thereby, lower costs. Hell, cutting Medicaid grants to states will do this too.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Innovation and capitalism will solve this issue, not big daddy government. But attitudes must change. Social Security is a big old socialist government clusterfuck that is not sustainable. Like most big government socialist clusterfucks it was always doomed to fail. Don’t blame the boomers either. SS is the brainchild of leftist Judeo-Christian guilt-think and is not based upon sound economic principles. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>When You have to lie through your teeth to make the point you want , you are nothing but a cartoon character. Screw this clown and his lies , SS have a problem , tax every dollar of income that is made in this country. And have business match every dollar. Or just raise the taxes on the fat of this country, the free ride companies that don&#039;t pay any taxes and the free ride people who don&#039;t pay any taxes in this country. Screw them They want to leave, then leave, but you won&#039;t take this country&#039;s market with you , You go you lose our market. Fuck them.</div>

 

[jbander]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 20321" data-quote="rightwinger" data-source="post: 31556428" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31556428" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31556428">rightwinger said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> In addition to Social Security, you should participate in a 401k type retirement and pay off your home.<br /> That will ensure your retirement </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>My guess is 40% of this country don&#039;t have a dime extra to put away. Or the little they could, would represent nothing.</div>

 

[jbander]

<div class="bbWrapper">SS worked great, and it will continue and be fixed and my best bet is they will go after the fat boys to do it when the time comes , Love it.</div>

 

[jbander]

<div class="bbWrapper">Tax capital gains us and above what it is taxed at now. , that would take care of any future problem.</div>

 

[struth]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 56416" data-quote="miketx" data-source="post: 31571152" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571152" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571152">miketx said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Lying pos. Die. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>wow…spoken like a true cultist</div>

 

[ReinyDays]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 77511" data-quote="Dadoalex" data-source="post: 31570382" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31570382" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31570382">Dadoalex said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> hank you for pointing out the problems and solutions.<br /> <br /> Taxing ALL income<br /> eliminating the upper limit<br /> <br /> Problem solved. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Why? ... why should I pay taxes, I&#039;M RICH ... tax the scum in the middle class more, they love to pay taxes ... they always vote for people who don&#039;t pay taxes ... hahahahahahahahahahah ...</div>

 

[80zephyr]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 56040" data-quote="Admiral Rockwell Tory" data-source="post: 31571591" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571591" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571591">Admiral Rockwell Tory said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> The Cato Institute is well-known for their lies and misinterpretations. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>They cite the court cases.</div>

 

[ReinyDays]

<div class="bbWrapper">Just to help with folks who like to fact-check ... here&#039;s an article about SS taxes ... not many middle class losers are aware of this information ...<br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.thebalancemoney.com/how-to-complete-schedule-se-for-self-employed-taxes-5212306" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">&quot;How to Complete Schedule SE for Self-Employment Taxes&quot;</a><br /> <br /> This is only for earned income ... investment income isn&#039;t taxed for SS ... [ka&#039;ching] ... the rich just keep getting richer hahahahahahahahahaha</div>

 

[80zephyr]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 58500" data-quote="jbander" data-source="post: 31571766" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=31571766" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-31571766">jbander said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Tax capital gains us and above what it is taxed at now. , that would take care of any future problem. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Then social security becomes a welfare program. Tax the rich to give to the poor.</div>