Someone please explain the logic of what God is doing because I don't get it

[james bond]

So God gives man "Free choice" and then punishes them horribly when they make the wrong choices?

The way I look at it is God and Satan are dividing sides. People like to blame God for everything, but forget about Satan because he is very good at hiding.

 

[james bond]

Or you could just live a long life.

Unfortunately, the one who has the power of death always wins in this universe.

 

[onefour1]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

It is important to understand that before we came to this earth we lived in heaven as the spirit children of our Father in Heaven. There we were given the opportunity to become more like our Father in Heaven and we all volunteered to come to this earth and receive a body of flesh and bones, go through a mortal existence in order to understand good and evil and eventually be resurrected and live forever with our bodies and the knowledge we attain from experiencing a fallen world. Those who come to this earth and choose good over evil will resurrect to a higher degree of glory than those who spend their time on this earth committing sin. There are varying degrees of glory in the hereafter and based upon our choices here on this earth, we will reap what we sow.

A part of man, known as his intelligence, is self-existent and has always existed. God could never create, let alone create perfect, the intelligence of man. God's work is to further the progression of those intelligences since they are not perfect beings. The more intelligent beings were chosen to be sons of God and were given a spirit body. When those spirit bodies come to this earth, they take on a physical body. Since God could never create the self-existent intelligence of man, he had to come up with another way to help them progress. Giving them free will to choose in and of themselves to be a good beings was the way for these intelligences to progress to be better beings. They progressed to a degree in the pre-mortal world known as their first estate. However, to progress further, they needed to experience good and evil, life and death, happiness and misery. To accomplish this, God sent his spirit children to a mortal existence. This is a learning ground for us to progress. It is temporary but needed for our progression.

God knew that his spirit children were not perfect and that when placed on a mortal world, they would occasionally make bad decisions. Some of his children would actually love evil more than good and would not succeed very well in their progression. Knowing that we would make mistakes, God provide a means whereby we could repent of our evil mistakes and seek forgiveness upon regretting what we had done and seeking to better our life. This is where Jesus' atonement helps us progress. Those who reject God and Jesus' atonement will not progress but be damned in their progression. This they do of their own choice.

Those in this life who have never had the chance to hear the gospel will hear it as the spirits of the dead before they are judged and resurrected. For this reason Jesus went and preached to the spirits that are dead and set up an organization for these spirits to hear the gospel and accept or reject it.

1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

In this way, all mankind will eventually have the opportunity to hear the gospel and be able to decide whether to accept or reject it. We all will progress according to our free will of choice and acceptance of the Lord's gospel. Our eternal reward is of our own choosing. If we are able and willing to live by a celestial law, we may find ourselves in the kingdom of heaven. If we list to obey wicked principles in our lives and love them more than righteousness, we will find ourselves in a lesser kingdom. You become what you want to become.

 

[BreezeWood]

So God gives man "Free choice" and then punishes them horribly when they make the wrong choices?

The way I look at it is God and Satan are dividing sides. People like to blame God for everything, but forget about Satan because he is very good at hiding.

.

To not die, one has to believe in a savior.

.
far from the truth, you just want the innocent to believe your book of forgeries and fallacies so you can keep them in servitude - the way those that crucified the 1st century religious itinerant are not brought to justice to rule to this day in prevention of the 1st century liberation theology, religion of antiquity from ever being completed.

 

[DukeU]

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

Adam and Eve were put on a perfect earth to multiply and live forever. They brought sin and death on mankind when they disobeyed God and ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

God could have not given us any choices to be made, but he loved us enough to give man a free will. And, man used that free will to go against God's wishes and instructions.

 

[Crepitus]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

Questioning is good. You're starting to shed the manacles of organized religion. Apply logic and reason instead. Go forth and live your life the way you want to, not the way someone else dictates.

 

[onefour1]

God was not surprised by the free will choice Adam and Eve made. We know this because Jesus was chosen as the redeemer of the world before the foundation of this earth. Knowing before hand what Adam and Eve would do and still going through with it, means that God planned for a fallen world. He knew well in advance that Adam and Eve would not live forever in a state of innocence. Coming to this earth and experiencing mortal life and learning good from evil was all part of the plan.

 

[Andylusion]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

In Acts 10, it says:
"At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God"

So what this passage shows it that G-d judges fairly the man who lives according to G-d, even if he does not officially have a Bible or something. G-d will judge the heart.

Another passage for this is Roman 2:14, which says:
"When Gentiles, who do not have the Law [since it was given only to Jews], do instinctively the things the Law requires [guided only by their conscience], they are a law to themselves, though they do not have the Law."

So again, G-d will judge people according to their own hearts.

Also you have a concept in Christianity, called the age of accountability. Now it isn't explicitly laid out how old you have to be, but it's a point where you are old enough to understand right and wrong, and make choices between the two.

One passage the refers to this, is 2 Samuel 12, when David's child dies, and he says "but now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.", the implication is the child is in Heaven, and David will join him.

What this means, is that every man who does not know the Lord Jesus, but has rejected him, is the same as a man who knows that stealing is wrong, rejects what is good by stealing, whether he has ever heard the name of Jesus or not.

Further, a man that accepts Jesus has his savior, will be judged the same as a man who acknowledges his evil and sinful heart and is faithful to G-d, even if he doesn't know G-d.

The best example of this, that I personally know, was a missionary trip to China, where a young girl on the mission trip was walking with group, and saw a man on the opposite side of the square, sitting and feeding the birds. For whatever reason she felt she had to leave the group, and go on her own to talk with the man.

She talked to him, and told him the name of Jesus. He stopped her, and said he's been following and praying his whole life to G-d and never knew his name before.

So like the Roman Centurion in Acts 10, G-d respects the heart devoted to him, even if they never heard the name of Jesus. So a man in China, who was faithful and true, was part of the faithful before he knew who the faithful were.

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

Sure. There is nothing wrong with questioning it. G-d is more than able to handle your doubt. Lord knows that I have had my own doubts in life.

Your question is super hard, even for the best to answer, and I'm not even close to the best.

Here's the best answer I have. Parents know that their kids are going to do wrong things, they'll lie, and make evil and wrong choices. Yet parents still have children.

You knowing that someone will do wrong, doesn't mean that you should not allow them to make the choice.

It's a bit like that Sci-fi movie with Tom Cruise, Minority Report. Is it right to go around arresting people for crimes they didn't commit yet, even if you are nearly absolutely sure they will?

But what alternative does G-d have? Prevent you from making any choices? Or prevent you from ever living?

G-d wants a people who love him, and love is a choice. Without choice, it isn't love. The problem is, if you give people a choice, then you also have the choice to do wrong and evil.

Does that help? Or did I confuse you more? lol. I don't know

 

[Indeependent]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

Step 1...Stop reading the New Testament.

 

[Michelle420]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

I really don't know what we're doing here. And I just don't like getting shivers about it all. It makes me feel terrible like I'm a soldier with no arms and no legs and I'm deaf and blind and there is a bag over my head where occasionally a nurse must feed me I assume but otherwise I am completely alone. Could you imagine that? Hossfly knows the movie I am talking about. Sorry, Im a little tipsy.

 

[emilynghiem]

God created the universe, put human beings on Earth, and then each of us lives a short life mostly consisting of struggling to survive and suffering, then we die.

Some of us go to heaven, some of us go to hell, based on criteria no one can agree on.

Some say we go to heaven if we believe Jesus is our Savior.

But what happens to all the unlucky people who never heard of Jesus because they were born before he was born or live in countries where Christianity isn't widespread?

Some people believe we go to heaven if we have faith and avoid sin. But everyone sins, every day. If you die with one mortal sin on your soul, nothing else matters, you go to hell.

The question I have is why did God set up the whole crazy system to begin with?

Why put us on Earth, to suffer and die? Why not put us in heaven right off the bat?

What good is it to send people to hell?

I'm seriously questioning the logic of believing in a God who is all knowing and all loving and yet sends people to hell for sins God knew before they were born they would commit.

I'm not saying I'm ready to throw Christianity out the window.

The alternative doesn't appear good either.

People who don't believe in God and don't fear going to hell have committed most of the world's nastiest deeds. So faith has a purpose.

And I do believe in God because I can't figure out how a universe can exist without something causing it to exist.

But I'm telling you I need someone to explain how God's plan includes all the horrible things that happen every day.

Dear Blackrook
God created humans with free will and conscience to learn from experience, from trial and error, the laws of cause and effect or karmic justice and reaping what we sow.

All the ugliness we see today didn't happen by chance.

Generations carry the consequences of the past until we learn to break the curses and cycle of sin and retribution.

The sin of unforgiveness allows injustice to multiply into war. The OT tells the history of tribal genocide and death from greed for power that corrupts our nations and institutions. This way of living by the letter of the law and following Mammon or material motivations leads to death and destruction, so we learn by our history.

On the other hand, living by the spirit of the laws as taught in the NT brings life rebirth and redemption by Restorative Justice, which we embody through Christ Jesus, not Retributive justice which kills relations and humanity.

The grace that comes with forgiveness in Christ Jesus allows the healing of mind, body, spirit and relations to reconcile humanity back with God

All the Bible, and all the history present and future of humanity, capture this spiritual process of reaching spiritual maturity by collectively establishing Universal Truth, Justice and Peace by love and free will and reason, not by fear or force. Moving from dying by the letter of the law to living by the spirit. We have free will to choose between the two paths by studying, learning and teaching from the causes, cures, and consequences.

 

[JoeB131]

The way I look at it is God and Satan are dividing sides. People like to blame God for everything, but forget about Satan because he is very good at hiding.

Okay, a whole lot of problems with this.

The first is that why did God create Satan and allow him to exist to start with?

The second is, looking at the bible, God kills hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people. Satan only kills 10 people, on a wager with God in the book of Job.

For that matter, in the Book of Job, Satan is allowed to come and go as he pleases in Heaven and is called a "Son of God." When Job asks God why he has inflicted so much misery on him, God replies, "I'm God, you can't question me."

 

[JoeB131]

Step 1...Stop reading the New Testament.

Step 2- Stop reading the Old Testament.

Come to think of it, the God of the OT is kind of an awful individual. the God of the NT is almost decent.

Of course, modern Churches ignore most of what's in the bible and give God a makeover that would make even Disney Blush.

 

[Indeependent]

Step 1...Stop reading the New Testament.

Step 2- Stop reading the Old Testament.

Come to think of it, the God of the OT is kind of an awful individual. the God of the NT is almost decent.

Of course, modern Churches ignore most of what's in the bible and give God a makeover that would make even Disney Blush.

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

 

[JoeB131]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

 

[Indeependent]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

Thanks for admitting you never read these passages yourself.

 

[Indeependent]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

For a guy with a Cracker Jacks degree in history you sure do reference a lot of stuff incorrectly or out of context.
But...you are a Liberal.

 

[Mindful]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

For a guy with a Cracker Jacks degree in history you sure do reference a lot of stuff incorrectly or out of context.
But...you are a Liberal.

Probably anti Jew too.

The bias was palpable.

 

[Indeependent]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

For a guy with a Cracker Jacks degree in history you sure do reference a lot of stuff incorrectly or out of context.
But...you are a Liberal.

Probably anti Jew too.

The bias was palpable.

JoeB thinks dark skinned people are too weak minded so they need his help; J thinks this makes him non-racist.
He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.
JoeB is an idiot.

 

[BreezeWood]

Thanks for admitting you never read the OT.
If you read the actual chapters, you would see that God only punishes people who destroy society and teach their kids to do the same.

Actually, what I see is a petty diety who slaughters people on a whim.

Such as stoning a man for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

Or forcing Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter because he made a foolish vow.

Or killing the baby of David and Bathsheba to prove that adultery is wrong.

Or killing 70,000 Israelites because David did a census God told him to do. Or maybe it was Satan. Kind of hard to tell, because the bible gives two different accounts.

Frankly the God of the Old Testament is about one step above a Batman villain.

For a guy with a Cracker Jacks degree in history you sure do reference a lot of stuff incorrectly or out of context.
But...you are a Liberal.

Probably anti Jew too.

The bias was palpable.

JoeB thinks dark skinned people are too weak minded so they need his help; J thinks this makes him non-racist.
He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.
JoeB is an idiot.

.

He hates religion, especially Judaism because we haven’t murdered as many people as other religions.

Thanks for admitting you never read these passages yourself.

.
by not reading your book, if you might - what specifically makes your religion different than the simple spoken religion of antiquity, namely the triumph of good vs evil.

is there a difference between who murders and who causes murder.