Something I wish a U.S. president would say about Afghanistan (or some place similar).

[Dayton3]

"We can't win. No one wants us there. We don't want to be there. Our troops will never be popular there nor supported by the locals. It will always be dangerous and expensive.

But we can't walk away. Anymore than police can simply walk away from a domestic violence situation. Sometimes all you can do is do your best in an utterly thankless situation. But we can't walk away and ignore it anymore than you can walk away and ignore a small fire burning. Small fires almost inevitably become bigger fires and then holocausts.

Sometimes the best we can do is kill people that need to be killed and hope for the best.

 

[harmonica]

..why can't we walk away?

 

[task0778]

So, how long do you think we should stay there? 1 year? 5? 10? 50? 100? You wanna wait until the Taliban goes away? In that part of the world that could take centuries, and for what? That country is a fucked up mess, that's the way it was before we got there and that's the way it'll be the day we leave.

 

[harmonica]

..plain and simple---the US [ any country ] cannot change a country's politics/culture/etc--EXCEPT maybe in a total war where we destroy their country [ with Atomic bomb use ] like Japan...and Afghanistan is nothing like Japan ...like Vietnam, it is ''''unwinnable'''.....
...should we have gone in there? of course ---the 9-11 leader /etc was based there
..so, tough shit....optimally, we needed a spec force there and intel there--to stay there....

 

[kyzr]

We walked away in VN and in AFG because there is no clearly defined defensible border, like in South Korea, or the "Iron Curtain" countries.
Iraq may be culturally safe enough, except ISIS was gaining ground there until Trump unleashed the military.
Yemen, African puss cases, North Korea, and even Cuba and Venezuela can fester until the people revolt.
The US is NOT the world's cop.

 

[Yarddog]

So, how long do you think we should stay there? 1 year? 5? 10? 50? 100? You wanna wait until the Taliban goes away? In that part of the world that could take centuries, and for what? That country is a fucked up mess, that's the way it was before we got there and that's the way it'll be the day we leave.

I believe in this case the Afghan government asked us to leave. wasnt that correct? and in that case, we pretty much needed to go. However had they asked us to stay, I wouldnt be against leaving a very small contingent to help keep their military's shit together. It wouldnt be necessary to send our guys out on dangerous patrols our anything like that, just lending our expertise in communication, logistics etc. That was about all we had there now and we were having very few deaths if any, I believe. And now we can see they are already crumbling which shows how powerful that simple presence was.

I would disagree. They were showing great progress inside of kabul. Education and freedom for women was just starting to take effect. You never saw that happen under the soviet occupation you can bet. If it all goes backwards now, then everything we have done so far and every life we had lost will be for nothing if we let the Taliban rule it all. They will invite groups like AlQuida and Isis once more, and they will once again focus on bringing down the west through terrorism.
But anyway, its all a moot point. We cant stay there without the invite from the Afghan government.

 

[Dayton3]

..why can't we walk away?

answered in the opening post

learn to read

 

[kyzr]

answered in the opening post

learn to read

The OP did not explain why we can't walk away. Hint: we ARE walking away.

 

[Dayton3]

The OP did not explain why we can't walk away. Hint: we ARE walking away.

You should also learn to read.

 

[Asclepias]

But we can't walk away.

Sure you can. Its none of the US business and no one appointed the US to be the police.

 

[kyzr]

You should also learn to read.

Maybe you need a technical writing course or two? Your OP makes no compelling case for staying.

 

[basquebromance]

BREAKING: 3000 US troops deployed to Afghanistan to teach the Taliban CRT.

 

[task0778]

I believe in this case the Afghan government asked us to leave. wasnt that correct? and in that case, we pretty much needed to go. However had they asked us to stay, I wouldnt be against leaving a very small contingent to help keep their military's shit together. It wouldnt be necessary to send our guys out on dangerous patrols our anything like that, just lending our expertise in communication, logistics etc. That was about all we had there now and we were having very few deaths if any, I believe. And now we can see they are already crumbling which shows how powerful that simple presence was.

I would disagree. They were showing great progress inside of kabul. Education and freedom for women was just starting to take effect. You never saw that happen under the soviet occupation you can bet. If it all goes backwards now, then everything we have done so far and every life we had lost will be for nothing if we let the Taliban rule it all. They will invite groups like AlQuida and Isis once more, and they will once again focus on bringing down the west through terrorism.
But anyway, its all a moot point. We cant stay there without the invite from the Afghan government.

1. I don't believe the Afghan gov't asked us to leave. It's doubtful they would do that knowing the Taliban will kill them all after we're gone.

2. A small contingent of US military would be useless, from what I hear the Afghan military is already being executed over there. Any American who is still there would be in grave danger. If we're not there in enough numbers then our presence would be negligible, who's going worry about an American outpost that doesn't do anything?

3. What great progress are you talking about inside of Kabul? I've not seen any indication of that.

4. The lives we lost and money spent are gone, whether we stay or go. I think we're better off considering the future lives that will be lost if we stay and saved if we leave.

5. I think there has to be a clear understanding: there will be severe retribution from us for any future terrorist camps or activities originating in Afghanistan. Not another deployment of troops but bombings and missile attacks against Talban leaders enough to be a real deterrent.

 

[harmonica]

Dayton3 the OP is babble crap

 

[harmonica]

Dayton3 OMG--you definitely never heard of a place called Vietnam

 

[harmonica]

Dayton3 the police analogy is ridiculous

 

[surada]

So, how long do you think we should stay there? 1 year? 5? 10? 50? 100? You wanna wait until the Taliban goes away? In that part of the world that could take centuries, and for what? That country is a fucked up mess, that's the way it was before we got there and that's the way it'll be the day we leave.

Afghanistan wasn't a mess until the Afghani communists overthrew the monarchy in 1974.

 

[surada]

1. I don't believe the Afghan gov't asked us to leave. It's doubtful they would do that knowing the Taliban will kill them all after we're gone.

2. A small contingent of US military would be useless, from what I hear the Afghan military is already being executed over there. Any American who is still there would be in grave danger. If we're not there in enough numbers then our presence would be negligible, who's going worry about an American outpost that doesn't do anything?

3. What great progress are you talking about inside of Kabul? I've not seen any indication of that.

4. The lives we lost and money spent are gone, whether we stay or go. I think we're better off considering the future lives that will be lost if we stay and saved if we leave.

5. I think there has to be a clear understanding: there will be severe retribution from us for any future terrorist camps or activities originating in Afghanistan. Not another deployment of troops but bombings and missile attacks against Talban leaders enough to be a real deterrent.

The Mujadideen fought the Afghani communists and were joined by the Taliban in 1994. The US backed them and AQ.

The Mujahideen are war lords who won't give up power so now they are fighting the Taliban.

Al Qaeda: Facts About the Terrorist Network and Its ...

Al Qaeda: Facts About the Terrorist Network and Its History of Attacks | HISTORY

The global terror network, al Qaeda, founded by Osama bin Laden, has been responsible for thousands of deaths on 9/11 and several other deadly attacks across the globe.

www.history.com

Exiled by the Saudi regime, and later stripped of his citizenship in 1994, bin Laden left Afghanistan and set up operations in Sudan, with the United States in his sights as enemy No. 1.

 

[Dayton3]

Dayton3 OMG--you definitely never heard of a place called Vietnam

I've studied the Vietnam War thoroughly.

 

[bendog]

"We can't win. No one wants us there. We don't want to be there. Our troops will never be popular there nor supported by the locals. It will always be dangerous and expensive.

But we can't walk away. Anymore than police can simply walk away from a domestic violence situation. Sometimes all you can do is do your best in an utterly thankless situation. But we can't walk away and ignore it anymore than you can walk away and ignore a small fire burning. Small fires almost inevitably become bigger fires and then holocausts.

Sometimes the best we can do is kill people that need to be killed and hope for the best.

Someone did. We just stopped following it under W. And no one has reinstated it .... until perhaps now.

Weinberger Doctrine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It actually was one of several reasons I actually joined a political party.