Something people don't seem to get about why Jesus came into the world, what the Crucifixion means 4 us individually

[rightnow909]

Most people don't know that that reason is just part of the package.

Jesus died on the Cross for the Church.

what?

dont get it

 

[rightnow909]

Truth bomb: The truth of the matter is the scriptural fact that nothing exists within Biblical Text that would authorize any papal lineage.

Catholic dogma concerning a supposed lineage of Popes going back to the Apostle Peter comes from one misinterpreted scripture. Matthew 16.......where the Catholic transfers the rock that the church was constructed upon from Jesus to Peter. They interpret the passage, ".......upon this rock I will build My church and the gates of hell shall not prevail......" as a reference to Peter because Jesus called him

I didn't get this thefirst time through and didn't want to go through it again but

Jesus would never have used Petra to refer to Peter... that is a feminine noun

Peter is the rock. Jesus changed his name from Simon to Peter bc changing a name in Jewish tradition was very significant... I can't recall details but I do recall that. Saul's name was changed when he converted... (2 Paul)

 

[rightnow909]

Here is where you can be misled by doctrine, instead of scripture.

If we don't succeed in this life? Succed at what? d...

like i said elsewhere... can't get beyond 1st sentence of the anti-Catholics because... first sentence is usually a lie/distortion/misunderstanding of Catholicism.

YOU are the one who deliberately or otherwise gets it wrong. WHO said anything about "succeed"?

you see how you antiCatholics are? You twist things from the very beginning of the argument... to your own favor of course

Succeed?

no one used that word. The psg cited did not use that word..

so until u fix that and get that kind of thing straight... This Catholic at least is not going to bother w/ any other "argument"

like i have said elsewhere.. the anticatholics do NOT listen... it's a total banging head against wall to try to get them to open their minds

 

[The Irish Ram]

like i said elsewhere... can't get beyond 1st sentence of the anti-Catholics because... first sentence is usually a lie/distortion/misunderstanding of Catholicism.

YOU are the one who deliberately or otherwise gets it wrong. WHO said anything about "succeed"?

you see how you antiCatholics are? You twist things from the very beginning of the argument... to your own favor of course

Succeed?

no one used that word. The psg cited did not use that word..

so until u fix that and get that kind of thing straight... This Catholic at least is not going to bother w/ any other "argument"

like i have said elsewhere.. the anticatholics do NOT listen... it's a total banging head against wall to try to get them to open their minds

You used that word! You think you have to go to purgatory if you don't succeed in life.
Paul begs to differ:
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Is the Lord residing in Purgatory now?

And you can stop with the anti Catholic bullshit. I am surrounded by wonderful Catholics. My husband for one. I call dogma when I see it, regardless of denomination...

 

[rightnow909]

You used that word! You think you have to go to purgatory if you don't succeed in life.
Paul begs to differ:
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Is the Lord residing in Purgatory now?

And you can stop with the anti Catholic bullshit. I am surrounded by wonderful Catholics. My husband for one. I call dogma when I see it, regardless of denomination...

i don't recall using that word at all. Show me where I used it. But some antiCatholics if not all remind me of liberals who just accuse, accuse accuse and hope something will stick...

and who said that being present w/ the Lord is not sometimes a purgation? I mean, it can hurt seeing one's sinfulness in full relief, so yeh... who said purgation involves total separation from God, an assumption on your part... you know about ass ump tions

not logical, captain. Purgatory is not Heaven but it is not total separation either (Hell)

 

[The Irish Ram]

Purgatory is made up. Again, if you are with the Lord, then you are in Heaven, not purgatory. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God as we speak. There isn't one verse in the Bible that says Jesus resides in limbo somewhere. Neither do His followers. Paul says we go straight up. And as the Bride of Christ, so do His followers. He took our sin. He gave us His pure record to enter Heaven with.

i don't recall using that word at all. Show me where I used it. But some antiCatholics if not all remind me of liberals who just accuse, accuse accuse and hope something will stick...

and who said that being present w/ the Lord is not sometimes a purgation? I mean, it can hurt seeing one's sinfulness in full relief, so yeh... who said purgation involves total separation from God, an assumption on your part... you know about ass ump tions

not logical, captain. Purgatory is not Heaven but it is not total separation either (Hell)

You used it in your 23 post. You used it as a reason you might end up in purgatory.
Quote:
"the thing is, even after He has forgiven us... we have to go through purification (Purgatory if we don't succed in this life).."

You have nothing to do with your redemption, but to except the gift that Christ gave to us from the cross. Any work on our part to get there is a slap in the face to the work Jesus did on the cross. God likens it to "filthy rags". Trying to work your way into Heaven says that His work was incomplete. The Bible tells us otherwise:

Romans 6:10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.​

​

 

[norwegen]

what?

dont get it

Why do Christians say that Jesus died for the sins of others, and then cut off the narrative? That's not where it ends.

No, Jesus died for the Church (Acts 20:28; Eph 5:25). More than just dying for the sins of individuals, as Paul alluded to in 1 Corinthians 15, Jesus died for the church. He died for his betrothed, the new temple where the saints of the everlasting kingdom gather.

Welcome to the wedding banquet.

 

[onefour1]

1 Corinthians 15:20-22
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

In this verse we learn that by the fall of Adam all men who are born into this life are subject unto death. We also learn that through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, not only did Christ overcome death for himself but he overcame death for all mankind. All mankind whether evil or good will be resurrected and receive the gift of immortality with a body of flesh and bones. So the salvation of all mankind to immortality is a gift of God through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

However, not everyone will be able to to live again in the kingdom of heaven. Salvation into the kingdom of heaven comes only to those who are humble and seek after the Lord and repent of their sins. These are they unto whom the redeeming blood of the atonement of Jesus Christ will gain grace and forgiveness of sins. Only to those who repent and seek the kingdom of Heaven will find it. Those who love darkness rather than light and who are followers of that wicked one who fell from heaven will find themselves in lower kingdoms and possibly outer darkness at the judgement seat. Those not willing to keep the laws of a celestial glory will need to go to a terrestrial glory or a telestial glory or possibly to a kingdom without glory where only darkness exists.

Jesus died for the sins of all mankind but only those who choose to repent and come unto him will receive the forgiveness of sins to dwell once again in celestial glory in the kingdom of heaven. It is a free gift to all mankind but man has his free will to accept it through the doctrine of repentance and faith in keeping the commandments of God or not.

 

[rightnow909]

Purgatory is made up. Again, if you are with the Lord, then you are in Heaven, not purgatory. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God as we speak. There isn't one verse in the Bible that says Jesus resides in limbo somewhere. Neither do His followers. Paul says we go straight up. And as the Bride of Christ, so do His followers. He took our sin. He gave us His pure record to enter Heaven with.



You used it in your 23 post. You used it as a reason you might end up in purgatory.
Quote:
"the thing is, even after He has forgiven us... we have to go through purification (Purgatory if we don't succed in this life).."

You have nothing to do with your redemption, but to except the gift that Christ gave to us from the cross. Any work on our part to get there is a slap in the face to the work Jesus did on the cross. God likens it to "filthy rags". Trying to work your way into Heaven says that His work was incomplete. The Bible tells us otherwise:

Romans 6:10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.​

​

well, I would like to see the original post but when I am in a hurry, I use words that aren't always thebest...

What I meant ws that if the work you do for the Lord is not what it should be, you will ... 1 Cor 3:15... saved, yet as through fire


=

 

[rightnow909]

Why do Christians say that Jesus died for the sins of others, and then cut off the narrative? That's not where it ends.

No, Jesus died for the Church (Acts 20:28; Eph 5:25). More than just dying for the sins of individuals, as Paul alluded to in 1 Corinthians 15, Jesus died for the church. He died for his betrothed, the new temple where the saints of the everlasting kingdom gather.

Welcome to the wedding banquet.

Do u agree this Church is the Catholic Church?

yes, there are weirdos in the clergy... I know all about that (though I have never met, that I know of, a pedophile priest; I hve known some RUDE ones and selfish ones... and heretical ones).

But that does not ever take away from the fact that the RCC is the one Christ himself established

 

[rightnow909]

1 Corinthians 15:20-22
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Catholics can quote scripture also

but Catholics have a CHURCH that infallibly interprets Scripture...

protestants only have each protestant's opinion of what a given scripture means, basically every man is his own pope

not good... Jesus established PETER was the first pope and then there were successors Peter and the other 11 anointed...

265 popes, I believe... that's a long, historical chain back to Christ

 

[onefour1]

Catholics can quote scripture also

but Catholics have a CHURCH that infallibly interprets Scripture...

protestants only have each protestant's opinion of what a given scripture means, basically every man is his own pope

not good... Jesus established PETER was the first pope and then there were successors Peter and the other 11 anointed...

265 popes, I believe... that's a long, historical chain back to Christ

My church is not a protestant church but a restored church. We do not believe that Peter was named a Pope but that he was the lead Apostle. We believe that the church Jesus established fell into a state of apostasy soon after the deaths of most of the Apostles. We believe that through the Prophet Joseph Smith the Lord restored his true church to the earth which is now called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thus I don't believe the catholic church is the true church of Jesus Christ nor do I believe that the Pope has any authority from God. If you wish to understand why I believe these things, read The Great Apostasy by James E. Talmage.

 

[rightnow909]

My church is not a protestant church but a restored church. We do not believe that Peter was named a Pope but that he was the lead Apostle. We believe that the church Jesus established fell into a state of apostasy soon after the deaths of most of the Apostles. We believe that through the Prophet Joseph Smith the Lord restored his true church to the earth which is now called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thus I don't believe the catholic church is the true church of Jesus Christ nor do I believe that the Pope has any authority from God. If you wish to understand why I believe these things, read The Great Apostasy by James E. Talmage.

all "churches" that are not Catholic but call themselves Christian are Protestant

and FYI

No one who has found the truth cares to listen to what others subjectively believe....

why would they? When one has the Truth, when one has all that Jesus gave... why would that person bother listening to what mere humans are teaching? I have the ancient Church Christ founded to teach and lead me... (yes, there are bad people in the Church... just as there are bad people in politics and everywhere else)

 

[onefour1]

all "churches" that are not Catholic but call themselves Christian are Protestant

and FYI

No one who has found the truth cares to listen to what others subjectively believe....

why would they? When one has the Truth, when one has all that Jesus gave... why would that person bother listening to what mere humans are teaching? I have the ancient Church Christ founded to teach and lead me... (yes, there are bad people in the Church... just as there are bad people in politics and everywhere else)

If you want to consider us protestant, then be my guest since I don't believe the Catholic Church was ever the true church of Jesus Christ. Most people however believe that those churches that formed by breaking off from the Catholic Church in protest to great evils that came out of the church are the protestant churches. After the Catholic Church lost its political power God restored his true church and there was no need to protest. However, even though we do not consider ourselves Protestants, but a restored church, we absolutely do not agree that the Catholic Church is God's true church.

You can choose to believe whatever you wish. That is the God given right given to all mankind who come to this earth. If you don't want to listen to me or read The Great Apostasy then that is your choice. I respect that. But I too have the choice to believe as I wish. In the end we shall see if God is in favor of the Catholic Church and all the things it has done throughout history.

 

[The Irish Ram]

well, I would like to see the original post but when I am in a hurry, I use words that aren't always thebest...

What I meant ws that if the work you do for the Lord is not what it should be, you will ... 1 Cor 3:15... saved, yet as through fire


=

You have misapplied that scripture and it has caused a misunderstanding. If you are saved, what you are saved from is the second death. Hell and the Lake of Fire. Thanks to Jesus, you never have to go there. It is what He saved us from.

If you accept Christ, and never do one good thing in your life for His sake, you are saved and in Heaven when you die. It is sin that prevents you from entering the presence of God, and Christ removed it from you. You are washed clean by His blood and nothing else. And God has completely forgotten any sin you committed while you were here, to honor what His beloved Son did on our behalf.
I will forgive their iniquities and remember their sins no more...
I will put their sins as far from me as the east is from the west...


The work you do for the Lord is the key in your statement. Because this is what happens when you get to Heaven:
You have your royal coronation. NOT YOUR SINS< because you have none, but your GOOD WORKS are put through the fire to see what kind it is. < Was it self serving, or Christ serving? And what survives(what you did because of your love of the Lord and not for your own pride or ego trip or pats on the back) determines the crowns you are presented with.

When you accept Christ as your Savior, your name is written in the Book of Life, and your place is set at the family table. Good works do not merit salvation, they are the fruits of it. Don't boast. Do them quietly...

Matthew 6:1-5
“Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly. <(at your coronation)
“And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

 

[norwegen]

Do u agree this Church is the Catholic Church?

No

But that does not ever take away from the fact that the RCC is the one Christ himself established

Nothing in scripture mentions any papacy.

 

[norwegen]

all "churches" that are not Catholic but call themselves Christian are Protestant

I don't believe the Baptist churches were part of the Protestant Reformation. Nor the Charismatic and non-denominational churches.

 

[rightnow909]

Purgatory is made up. Again, if you are with the Lord, then you are in Heaven, not purgatory. Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God as we speak. There isn't one verse in the Bible that says Jesus resides in limbo somewhere. Neither do His followers. Paul says we go straight up. And as the Bride of Christ, so do His followers. He took our sin. He gave us His pure record to enter Heaven with.



You used it in your 23 post. You used it as a reason you might end up in purgatory.
Quote:
"the thing is, even after He has forgiven us... we have to go through purification (Purgatory if we don't succed in this life).."

You have nothing to do with your redemption, but to except the gift that Christ gave to us from the cross. Any work on our part to get there is a slap in the face to the work Jesus did on the cross. God likens it to "filthy rags". Trying to work your way into Heaven says that His work was incomplete. The Bible tells us otherwise:

Romans 6:10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.​

​

no, you don't get Catholics at all, not surprisingly... used to this

sigh

Purgatory iss supported by the Bible... it's just that most protestants don't SEE it.. Scott Hahn saw it... He had to study a long time but he finally began to understand Catholic teaching. I suggest others do as he did.. Otherwise, they cannot have an intelligent conversation about this... bc they do not know what they are talking about.

Purgatory is not punishment but purgation. Yes, it hurts in the lower levels... that is why we need to follow Christ diligently in THIS life...

 

[rightnow909]

I don't believe the Baptist churches were part of the Protestant Reformation. Nor the Charismatic and non-denominational churches.

they came a lot later

Luther broke from the Catholic Church he was raised in

Zwingli and others broke from Luther

others broke from Zwingli

and so and so forth until today we have something like 60,000 different denoms

 

[rightnow909]

No

Nothing in scripture mentions any papacy.

a lot of things are not mentioned in the Bible