R&E Spiritual Warfare

[Disir]

Can you tell us of an example of this 'spiritual warfare'?

Science doesn't accept one's faith as evidence of anything.

This thread isn't about science proving anything. Is it?

 

[Donald H]

This thread isn't about science proving anything. Is it?

If you want to exclude discussion that relates to science questioning 'faith' or anything else, then you should make your appeal to the moderators.

I will happily abide by any decision that is made concerning this section of the forum.

In the meantime, I'll consider my comments to be appropriate.

And if you don't choose to involve a moderator then I'll even consider your personal plea to exclude comments you feel aren't appropriate for this forum section.

 

[Disir]

If you want to exclude discussion that relates to science questioning 'faith' or anything else, then you should make your appeal to the moderators.

I will happily abide by any decision that is made concerning this section of the forum.

In the meantime, I'll consider my comments to be appropriate.

And if you don't choose to involve a moderator then I'll even consider your personal plea to exclude comments you feel aren't appropriate for this forum section.

Your mission is not to question. Your mission is to shut down whatever real conversation of any depth taking place. It's ok for you not to believe in the same things. I appreciate that whole heartedly. I really want to hear what people have to say from their hearts and I don't want them to feel afraid when they take the time to put how they feel or their thoughts about this on the line. You are harassing people on the thread to prevent them from speaking. Are you ok with that?

 

[Donald H]

Your mission is not to question. Your mission is to shut down whatever real conversation of any depth taking place. It's ok for you not to believe in the same things. I appreciate that whole heartedly. I really want to hear what people have to say from their hearts and I don't want them to feel afraid when they take the time to put how they feel or their thoughts about this on the line. You are harassing people on the thread to prevent them from speaking. Are you ok with that?

I don't consider your opinion that I'm harassing others as valid.
As I have suggested, if you appeal to the moderators to exclude me from taking part here, and they decide in your favour, then I'll abide by their decision.

Until that happens, I suggest that you just let it go and accept opinions of others that differ from yours. It's counter productive.

If anybody fears hearing my opinions or fears expressing their own opinion, then they should make their feelings known by referring to a specific example of my being at fault.

 

[Disir]

I don't consider your opinion that I'm harassing others as valid.
As I have suggested, if you appeal to the moderators to exclude me from taking part here, and they decide in your favour, then I'll abide by their decision.

Until that happens, I suggest that you just let it go and accept opinions of others that differ from yours. It's counter productive.

If anybody fears hearing my opinions or fears expressing their own opinion, then they should make their feelings known by referring to a specific example of my being at fault.

I appreciate your transparency. I'm sure others will as well.

 

[Donald H]

I appreciate your transparency. I'm sure others will as well.

Thank you and so maybe now we can continue to pursue the questions on the need to not turn to accepting a supernatural solution to difficult questions that can only be answered by science. Faith can answer as personal satisfaction for some but it can't be acceptable as an answer for others.

We're supposed to be talking about 'Spiritual Warfare' and so that calls for specific examples of the imagined warfare.

 

[Disir]

Thank you and so maybe now we can continue to pursue the questions on the need to not turn to accepting a supernatural solution to difficult questions that can only be answered by science. Faith can answer as personal satisfaction for some but it can't be acceptable as an answer for others.

We're supposed to be talking about 'Spiritual Warfare' and so that calls for specific examples of the imagined warfare.

We are talking about spiritual warfare and it doesn't have anything to do with science. I've been very clear about that from the beginning. That is the "spiritual" part. Is it not? You seem to be confused regarding the terminology.

 

[Donald H]

We are talking about spiritual warfare and it doesn't have anything to do with science. I've been very clear about that from the beginning. That is the "spiritual" part. Is it not? You seem to be confused regarding the terminology.

The 'spiritual' part of it is that which I refuse to accept as valid.
We've already discussed your attempts to eliminate my opinion from the discussion. I refused to accept your demands!

I'll now leave the discussion of my own accord, unless there is a discussion taking place that deals with the topic, as opposed to your complaining.

 

[Disir]

The 'spiritual' part of it is that which I refuse to accept as valid.
We've already discussed your attempts to eliminate my opinion from the discussion. I refused to accept your demands!

I'll now leave the discussion of my own accord, unless there is a discussion taking place that deals with the topic, as opposed to your complaining.

Bye!

 

[Meriweather]

I don't consider your opinion that I'm harassing others as valid.

Would you call 'annoying others' a valid assessment? I have been considering a couple of stories--but I get tired of posters like you diagnosing what may have "really" happened.

These aren't your stories--they did not happen to you, so your cockiness that you can evaluate another's personal experience over the internet is annoying. It is especially annoying for those of us who have already thoroughly investigated alternate "scientific" explanations and are confident science doesn't hold the answer to what happens in some particular cases.

In sensitive topics such as this one, could you perhaps let people share without interrupting? There is nothing wrong with reading and then, without comment, moving on to another thread.

 

[Meriweather]

so that calls for specific examples of the imagined warfare.

In other words, no such thing as actual spiritual warfare. Since you hold that belief, this is not the thread for you. It's for people to share actual experiences, which in your mind do not exist. Take that as a "Here's your sign" (that this thread may not be for you).

 

[Donald H]

Would you call 'annoying others' a valid assessment? I have been considering a couple of stories--but I get tired of posters like you diagnosing what may have "really" happened.

I would call you being annoyed as your personal issue.

These aren't your stories--they did not happen to you, so your cockiness that you can evaluate another's personal experience over the internet is annoying. It is especially annoying for those of us who have already thoroughly investigated alternate "scientific" explanations and are confident science doesn't hold the answer to what happens in some particular cases.

You're only telling me that you aren't confident in those stories being able to stand up to scrutiny.

In sensitive topics such as this one, could you perhaps let people share without interrupting?

NO! If you consider what I've added as an interruption then you shouldn't have read it. This isn't a live conversation, face to face, in which there can be interruptions.
If your stories cause you embarrassment then perhaps you should be questioning your own faith and beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with reading and then, without comment, moving on to another thread.

And there is nothing wrong with commenting and disagreement if it's done in a manner that is acceptable to the rules of the forum.

 

[Meriweather]

We are talking about spiritual warfare and it doesn't have anything to do with science.

I have no testimony about Satan, devils, demons although I have read a few books on possessions and exorcisms by those who have witnessed such.

In all my years of teaching, I have had only one student who fits the description of making my blood run cold, before he ever did or said anything. I still pray for him, and I can relate to RodISHI's account of evil sometimes reaching an almost tangible level.

I have never felt attacked, so my experiences may not have anything to do with warfare. For those who believe in Purgatory, I can testify that prayers help. I have three lovely experiences of that.

The other experience is more along the lines I found myself in a place I wasn't supposed to be and angels led me back.

My assessment of all these events is that we are more deeply cared for and watched over than we know. And, we can lend a helping hand even though it is extremely hard to discern how/why prayer can help.

 

[Meriweather]

And there is nothing wrong with commenting and disagreement if it's done in a manner that is acceptable to the rules of the forum.

Go ahead and disagree with spiritual warfare all you wish. However, when you step into someone's story, you are on someone's holy ground and your disagreement with the story is the same as calling them a liar, thereby desecrating holy ground.

 

[Donald H]

Go ahead and disagree with spiritual warfare all you wish. However, when you step into someone's story, you are on someone's holy ground and your disagreement with the story is the same as calling them a liar, thereby desecrating holy ground.

No, disagreeing with somebody is not calling that person a liar.
And it's no desecration of holy ground to disagree, or even to call somebody a liar!

If your opinion brings you or anybody else shame, then that's for you and them to deal with.

 

[Vastator]

Not really. This is where it came up. Someone made the statement "as above so below" and then asked what is happening "up there". That statement is the Principle of Correspondence and it original came from the Emerald Tablet. I have a hard time seeing it the way she did because of my own limitations. I see it as I am the Kabbalah tree of life with this material plane being the shell. I don't see outside forces at work. I see all of that battle as going down within yourself. I didn't disagree with her, of course, because who am I? Right? I have heard spiritual warfare as a topic quite frequently. It won't kill me to hear other people's view.

 

[Meriweather]

No, disagreeing with somebody is not calling that person a liar.

It is if you dispute their account.

 

[Meriweather]

And it's no desecration of holy ground to disagree

I set forth the boundaries of holy ground--someone's personal story. The general idea of spiritual warfare is open.

 

[Donald H]

I have no testimony about Satan, devils, demons although I have read a few books on possessions and exorcisms by those who have witnessed such.

And I reject all of that as superstitious supernatural nonsense.

In all my years of teaching, I have had only one student who fits the description of making my blood run cold, before he ever did or said anything. I still pray for him, and I can relate to RodISHI's account of evil sometimes reaching an almost tangible level.

I'm interested in hearing your anecdotal tales but there's no onus on me to respect any of them.

I have never felt attacked, so my experiences may not have anything to do with warfare. For those who believe in Purgatory, I can testify that prayers help. I have three lovely experiences of that.

I'm interested, as I've said.
And I may comment in a way that observes the rules of this section of the forum.

The other experience is more along the lines I found myself in a place I wasn't supposed to be and angels led me back.

I don't consider angels to be real.

My assessment of all these events is that we are more deeply cared for and watched over than we know. And, we can lend a helping hand even though it is extremely hard to discern how/why prayer can help.

There has never been any proof furnished to prove that prayer has ever been effective. There's evidence to show the contrary. Faith can't be considered to be evidence or proof of anything.

 

[Donald H]

It is if you dispute their account.

I'm asking for proof. If they can't furnish proof then I don't consider their account as being acceptable.

My atheism isn't a religion. It's my lack of belief in any religion.