Stop Blaming Israel For the Gaza War

[Phoenall]

An example example of why Israel MUST COMPLETELY DESTROY the place once known as Gaza....Wait for the incoming and then drop the hammer on them!

'If demands not met by Sunday, we will attack Tel Aviv,' says Hamas

The Jerusalem Post ^

Hamas states on Saturday that it would continue attacks on Israel, if Palestinian demands it put forward in indirect talks in Cairo were not met. Palestinian demands include lifting the siege, reopening the border crossings, and allowing construction material into the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians are also demanding free passage between the West Bank and Gaza Strip, freedom of fishing within 12 miles of the coast, reopening the Palestinian airport in the southern Gaza Strip, construction of a seaport and cancellation of buffer zones along the border with Israel. At the same time, Hamas spokesman Mushir al-Masri said the group...

Or Israel could voluntarily abandon the Zionist dream of all the land between the River and the sea for Jews only.

"Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said that his movement would not make any concessions regarding its demand to have a seaport in the Gaza Strip. 'Such a port would be the Palestinian gate to the outside world,' he explained.

"Senior Hamas official Ahmed Bahr reiterated his movement’s refusal to disarm. 'The weapons of the Palestinian resistance will stay as long as Israeli occupation exists on our occupied land,' Bahr said. 'The painful strikes of the resistance on Israel will drive the Israeli negotiator to accept all the demands of the resistance. This is the only language of negotiations they understand.'”

Sounds like a small price to pay for peace.

Hamas threatens to resume strikes on Tel Aviv if demands not met by Sunday | JPost | Israel News

A pity that they never had that dream as shown by the treaties they signed with Egypt, Jordan and the PLO. Or did you just ignore the truth about the land given up for peace by Israel. We can start with gaza given up in 2005 and go on to the Sinai and Jordan valley

 

[Phoenall]

An example example of why Israel MUST COMPLETELY DESTROY the place once known as Gaza....Wait for the incoming and then drop the hammer on them!

'If demands not met by Sunday, we will attack Tel Aviv,' says Hamas

The Jerusalem Post ^

Hamas states on Saturday that it would continue attacks on Israel, if Palestinian demands it put forward in indirect talks in Cairo were not met. Palestinian demands include lifting the siege, reopening the border crossings, and allowing construction material into the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians are also demanding free passage between the West Bank and Gaza Strip, freedom of fishing within 12 miles of the coast, reopening the Palestinian airport in the southern Gaza Strip, construction of a seaport and cancellation of buffer zones along the border with Israel. At the same time, Hamas spokesman Mushir al-Masri said the group...

What's wrong with those demands?

They seem pretty fair to me!

Just as the Israeli demands are fair also, that hamas disarm and stop the terrorism and belligerence. One more rocket from hamas will see a return to death and destruction in gaza, and the world will sit back and tell hamas they have made their bed so lie on it.

 

[Billo_Really]

So then dildo how about you provide the link that states Einstein says Israel today is just like Nazi Germany. And none of your changing the rules this time because you cant produce the evidence, then denying you said the words

I just did. It was in my post. It's not my problem if you have comprehension issues.

The government he accused of being like the Nazis back then, is the government Israel has today.

 

[Billo_Really]

Just as the Israeli demands are fair also, that hamas disarm and stop the terrorism and belligerence. One more rocket from hamas will see a return to death and destruction in gaza, and the world will sit back and tell hamas they have made their bed so lie on it.

Asking a nation not to have weapons to defend itself, is not a fair demand.

 

[georgephillip]

No need.

See 'competing religion', above. It was practitioners of the same competing religion. Unless, of course, you hold that the Ottoman Empire was not a Muslim empire.


My admiration of Israeli courage does not stem from the period of the British Mandate.

My admiration of Israeli courage stems from May 15, 1948, and beyond, and especially in the years 1948 - 1967, when they were pretty much on their own, and won a home for themselves regardless of what the rest of the world wanted.


True. Beat a house pet long enough and it will begin to whimper and lie down in a corner and manifest exemplary behavior. Same for the Jews, beaten and taxed into submission centuries beforehand.


I'm pretty sure that (a) the British Navy had successfully transitioned from coal to oil by the time they assumed the Mandate and (b) there wasn't enough oil and gas in Old Palestine to make that the reason why the British attacked the Ottomans there during WWI and (c) the British established no permanent colonies in Old Palestine for the purposes of securing nearby oil and gas fields.

The British established a colony of Zionists in Palestine at the end of WWI. That was done to control the flow of Arab oil in neighboring states...

I suggest you study the history of immigration into Old Palestine...

Aliyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The post-WWI period you refer to is also known as the Third Aliyah - a mere continuation of the large-scale immigration already underway since 1882 - and during the Third Aliyah, the numbers coming in (40K-ish) were not substantively different from those before it.

There is no credible evidence that I am aware of, that indicates that the British created a colony in Palestine for the purpose of controlling the oil fields of neighboring countries.

How did a Jewish colony in Palestine secure nearby oil-fields for the British?

Especially when one considers that the British had control of Egypt and other Middle East countries, and the Suez Canal.


Not Arabs, George... Muslims... members of the same religious belief-system.

Do you really need for me to document Dhimmi Status for Jews in Old Palestine, either before or during the Ottoman Imperial period?

Google it yourself. I did. And found what I was looking for on Wiki and a dozen other places.

...Does your admiration of Jewish courage stem from Plan Dalet?

Nope.

Hell, until I saw you spamming it here, I didn't even know what the goddamned thing was.

My admiration for them stems from winning the Arab-Israeli War of 1948-1949, against very long odds indeed, and telling the rest of the world to go <bleep> itself, when those uppity Jews actually won, and others became quite upset.

...Its purpose is much debated... Plan Dalet...

Don't care.

Doesn't matter.

That was then.

This is now.

And, just now, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad, are getting their asses kicked.

To the great harm of their supposed beneficiaries - the civilians of Gaza - because those Muslim militias will not move their war-assets away from their civilians; thereby necessitating counterstrikes which produce more unintended collateral civilian casualties than would otherwise be inflicted.

Now explain how any state, even Israel, is permitted under international law to simultaneously exercise control over a territory it occupies AND militarily attack that same territory on the claim it is "foreign" and poses an external security threat?

Law matters.

Then and now.

 

[irosie91]

Just as the Israeli demands are fair also, that hamas disarm and stop the terrorism and belligerence. One more rocket from hamas will see a return to death and destruction in gaza, and the world will sit back and tell hamas they have made their bed so lie on it.

Asking a nation not to have weapons to defend itself, is not a fair demand.

Kassam rockets are not a defensive weapon------in fact, they have no military value at all---
their only function is terrorism -------their most effective function is random killing of children
which is why they are called the muslimah thing

 

[georgephillip]

An example example of why Israel MUST COMPLETELY DESTROY the place once known as Gaza....Wait for the incoming and then drop the hammer on them!

'If demands not met by Sunday, we will attack Tel Aviv,' says Hamas

The Jerusalem Post ^

Hamas states on Saturday that it would continue attacks on Israel, if Palestinian demands it put forward in indirect talks in Cairo were not met. Palestinian demands include lifting the siege, reopening the border crossings, and allowing construction material into the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians are also demanding free passage between the West Bank and Gaza Strip, freedom of fishing within 12 miles of the coast, reopening the Palestinian airport in the southern Gaza Strip, construction of a seaport and cancellation of buffer zones along the border with Israel. At the same time, Hamas spokesman Mushir al-Masri said the group...

Or Israel could voluntarily abandon the Zionist dream of all the land between the River and the sea for Jews only.

"Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said that his movement would not make any concessions regarding its demand to have a seaport in the Gaza Strip. 'Such a port would be the Palestinian gate to the outside world,' he explained.

"Senior Hamas official Ahmed Bahr reiterated his movement’s refusal to disarm. 'The weapons of the Palestinian resistance will stay as long as Israeli occupation exists on our occupied land,' Bahr said. 'The painful strikes of the resistance on Israel will drive the Israeli negotiator to accept all the demands of the resistance. This is the only language of negotiations they understand.'”

Sounds like a small price to pay for peace.

Hamas threatens to resume strikes on Tel Aviv if demands not met by Sunday | JPost | Israel News

A pity that they never had that dream as shown by the treaties they signed with Egypt, Jordan and the PLO. Or did you just ignore the truth about the land given up for peace by Israel. We can start with gaza given up in 2005 and go on to the Sinai and Jordan valley

What land has Israel given up in the Jordan Valley?
Israel removed thousands of squatters and twice as many troops from Gaza in 2005 but remains in effective control of Gaza's land borders, airspace, coastal waters, population registry, and its electromagnetic sphere. The land Israel relinquished in the Sinai only happened after Israel nearly lost everything in 1973's Yom Kippur War. Jews want all the land between the River and the sea for Jews alone, and every action they've taken for the past 66 years proves that.

 

[irosie91]

I absolutely support all the demands of----whatshisname achmed-----except that free passage thing---
if it means that they get to walk thru Israel. ------with a single provision------if some brave mujahad-
kid or slut------attacks or kills a jew anywhere in the world in the name of pig "god"--allah-----Israel
gets to bomb Gaza completely out of existence-----and kill a few hundred thousand ummah niks ---
somewhere else in the world

 

[protectionist]

So then dildo how about you provide the link that states Einstein says Israel today is just like Nazi Germany. And none of your changing the rules this time because you cant produce the evidence, then denying you said the words

I just did. It was in my post. It's not my problem if you have comprehension issues.

The government he accused of being like the Nazis back then, is the government Israel has today.

NO, it is the govt that Gaza has, headed by Hamas. It's also the way ISIS functions.

 

[protectionist]

Just as the Israeli demands are fair also, that hamas disarm and stop the terrorism and belligerence. One more rocket from hamas will see a return to death and destruction in gaza, and the world will sit back and tell hamas they have made their bed so lie on it.

Asking a nation not to have weapons to defend itself, is not a fair demand.

It is only unfair in that what you describe ("Asking") would be a request. In the case of a nation led by terrorists (Hamas), it should be a DEMAND, not a request. Better yet, the nation should be annihilated, and every last member of Hamas killed.
Nothing less than 100% EXTERMINATION of the vermin of Hamas, would be acceptable.

 

[Kondor3]

As for Albert Einstein: Political views of Albert Einstein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Einstein was one of the authors of an open letter to the New York Times in 1948 deeply criticizing Menachem Begin's Herut (Freedom) Party for the Deir Yassin massacre (Einstein et al."

That, of course, is not 'being against the establishment of Israel' in any way shape or form.

That quote is from this context: "Einstein publicly stated reservations about the proposal to partition the British Mandate of Palestine into independent Arab and Jewish countries. In a 1938 speech, "Our Debt to Zionism", he said: "I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain&#8212;especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state. ... If external necessity should after all compel us to assume this burden, let us bear it with tact and patience."[17]

Nothing in the above even hints at the assertion that Einstein was opposed to Israel per se. His views did change somewhat through time, but the basic support of a Jewish homeland in Judea was always there (and that's what Zionism truly is): if Einstein were alive today, it's unclear whether he would still favor a 'binational' state (although Israel is closer to a 'binational' state than most critics are willing to acknowledge).

Certainly the Israelis of 1952 never imagined that Einstein was so against them as has been asserted! And while I try to never underestimate my fellow humans' propensity for complete stupidity - I really do not suppose they were so stupid as to offer him the presidency if he were really so opposed to their State.

Here's Einstein's exact words...

TO THE EDITORS OF NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.[/I]

Two things of note here:

A big "fuck you" to all those who criticize my comparisons between Israel today and Nazi Germany. Here's Einstein doing the same thing...

So, anyone who dares to disagree with you, or anyone who criticizes your ideas about comparing Israel and Nazi Germany, can go get phukked?

Really?

I haven't encountered that sort of manic behavior since grade-school; at least, not from anyone not pursuing a psych consult.

And you wonder why a great many people have stopped treating you civilly around here, given your collegial mannerisms in interacting with your peers.

Big friggin' surprise.

And, just for the record, your sophomoric piggybacking upon Einstein in a lame attempt (and failure) to lend credibility to your pathetic argument, is worthy of a fifth-grade debating club primer-pamphlet, but it isn't going to impress anyone beyond the age of, say, twelve or so.

Serving up a critical open letter from a handful of intelligent folks does not ipso facto render their political perspective or opinions one whit more valid than those of anyone else.

...[*]The Freedom Party was formed from a terrorist group, just like Hamas.
[/LIST]And just where is the Freedom Party today?

Well, they are the Likud Party, the current Israeli regime, causing all the trouble in the ME.

And like the sage that he was, Einstein predicted what we're seeing today!...

Albert Einstein was a mathematical and physics wizard.

In connection with politics, he has no more claim to fame or authority or credibility than my Aunt Martha.

He was also sufficiently Old-School Euro-Jew that he was content to live under the shield and umbrella of others and was not, by all reports, heavily vested in either Judaism nor religion-at-large nor the idea of a Jewish Homeland, if I recall correctly the few scraps that I've read concerning Einstein, over the years.

MEH.

Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Not so fast, Albert. They were speaking the language of survival earlier, while you were safe and sound in America, having had the means to escape the Nazis while so many of your European Jewish kindred could not, and having a safe home, thousands of miles away from any real danger, while the survivors amongst your European Jewish kindred did not

...Either Israel purges itself of this fascist, right wing leadership, or suffer the consequences similar to Nazi Germany, when the world is finally sick of their bullshit!

Pure horseshit and hyperbole.

You're just doing the Loser's Whine, because your boys (Hamas, and Islamic Jihad) are getting their asses kicked, good-and-proper.

No such worldwide assault has been planned (by any sane, credible polity, anyway) and attempted in the first 66 years of their existence.

Given that Egypt, Jordan and Turkey routinely collaborate with Israel, and are friends to some extent or another, I wouldn't hold my breath for that to unfold at any point during the next 66 years, either.

Wake us up when that is about to happen, Skippy.

Still, you're entitled to dream your little dream.

 

[protectionist]

I absolutely support all the demands of----whatshisname achmed-----except that free passage thing---
if it means that they get to walk thru Israel. ------with a single provision------if some brave mujahad-
kid or slut------attacks or kills a jew anywhere in the world in the name of pig "god"--allah-----Israel
gets to bomb Gaza completely out of existence-----and kill a few hundred thousand ummah niks ---
somewhere else in the world

They're damn lucky that's not happening to them right now. If this was Roosevelt, Truman, or Eisenhower running the show, they'd have been nuked or carpet-bombed (or both), long before this. Lucky for them it's Netanyahu, instead.

 

[Kondor3]

Gaza mosques fall to Israeli airstrikes, without any groundswell of outrage

By Sudarsan Raghavan and William Booth August 9 at 5:24 PM - the Washington Post

...

In the month-long war, Israeli airstrikes have struck more religious targets than in Israel&#8217;s two previous offensives against Hamas in 2009 and 2012, Palestinians say. According to the Palestinian Liberation Organization, 63 mosques have been destroyed and 150 have been partially damaged. Ten Muslim cemeteries were also targeted.

Surprisingly, there has been little outrage from the Palestinian street or from the broader Muslim world. Violent upheavals across the Middle East, political analysts say, have acclimated Muslims to seeing their houses of worship under siege. Arabic news channels and Facebook and other social media have been filled with scenes of mosques pocked with bullets and damaged by attacks in recent conflicts and revolutions in Egypt, Syria and Libya. The shock value is over, say analysts.

...

The absence of much umbrage in the Arab world is also a reflection of its overall detachment to the Gaza conflict, analysts said. Many governments in the region are consumed by domestic instability. Or they believe the war is not between Israel and Palestinians, but rather between Israel and Hamas, an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which has been classified as a terrorist group by Saudi Arabia, Egypt and some other Arab countries.

&#8220;The Arab street has become indifferent to what happens to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip,&#8221; said Mkhaimar Abusaada, a political science professor at Al Azhar University in Gaza, referring to the attacks on mosques. &#8220;Many Arab countries are busy dealing with their own internal problems &#8212; Iraq, Syria, Libya, for example. And part of the Arab street believes this war is against terrorism, radicalism, and not against the Palestinians.&#8221;

...

Thrall, of the International Crisis Group, said that Hamas as an insurgent force has greatly improved its fighting capabilities, meaning that it may no longer need mosques to serve as protection the way it once did. Hamas and the other militant factions now have remote-controlled rocket launchers that pop out of the ground and extensive networks of tunnels to protect weapons, fighters and command and control centers. They don&#8217;t need a basement in a mosque, he said.

In the current offensive, said Eisin, Israel has seen Hamas and the other factions employ ambulances, &#8220;TV&#8221; trucks, U.N. schools and abandoned hospitals, as well as mosques. &#8220;Anytime Hamas perceives something as inviolate, they will take advantage of it and use it,&#8221; she said.

This put Israel in a difficult position, but rules of engagement and international law support striking even mosques. &#8220;When you respond to a source of fire, it is not a war crime, even if it is a mosque,&#8221; Eisen said.

...

Gaza mosques fall to Israeli airstrikes, without any groundswell of outrage - The Washington Post

=========================================

There is no Arab Cavalry coming over the hill to rescue Hamas (or the Palestinians) this time.

Hamas is toast.

 

[irosie91]

uhm----hamas went a tad too far?

 

[WillReadmore]

People should blaming Israel For the Gaza War. They are just defending themselves from the Muslim terrorist creeps known as Hamas. The Palestinians are just an unfortunate people caught in the crossfire.

The Hamas Charter clearly defines the reason for this terrible war. It is because Hamas is a bunch of Muslim jihadist lunatics, hell bent on annihilating Israel. All this talk about the Palestinians and land is just a con job to gain sympathy for Hamas. They don't care a wit about the Palestinians, and they invite harm to these poor people by attacking Israel and than locating themselves and their weapons closely among the Palestinians, where they know this will get them killed. Then they blame it on Israel and seek world condemnation,

Some foolish people fall for this scam and attack Israel for the deaths of Palestinians, playing right into the hands of Hamas, who set it all up that way.

Alan M. Dershowitz: When will Gazans finally get fed up with Hamas? | National Post

Abject ignorance.

The Hamas prime minister elected in 2006 stated clearly that Israel has full rights of permanence.

Israel and Egypt (under US pressure by Bush) used that free and fair election as the reason to establish the embargo on Gaza.

The recent tightening of the embargo came as punishment from Netanyahu for Hamas having acceded to the unity government of Abbas - a pro-western technocrat. That government has Israel's permanence as a founding principle, and has NO positions for Hamas - it was a major concession by Hamas, putting Palestine under one non-terrorist rule.

Other parts of Netanyahu's collective punishment of Palestinians for this unity government included bulldozing thousands of Palestinian homes in West Bank, denying the right of Gaza to fish in the Mediterranean Sea (cutting a hugely important food source), and the confiscation of the payroll of 50 thousand citizens of Gaza. Lest anyone doubt that this wasn't pure punishment, Israel even denies exports as well as travel.

This was an act of war, obviously. It was also a crime under international law. Israel offered no negotiations over this - as Israel has never in 8 years included any opportunity for Gaza to negotiate an end to it. And, no nation came to the political aid of Gaza - leaving them with the choice of war or sitting there watching their children starve.


So, no, Israel is absolutely and fully responsible for this war, having taken the first acts of war against Gaza without any valid justification.

And, NO nation would have failed to fire on an opposing nation under these circumstances faced by Gaza.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Really that is why Truman had such a huge discussion with his Zionist group about it, and might I add General Marshall was very against it.

So was Albert Einstein.

True, people of intelligence were against it, those with foresight.

Indeed, they were saying that a Jewish state in Palestine would bring generations of death and destruction.

But the dumbards won out and we have had generations of death and destruction.

 

[Sally]

So was Albert Einstein.

True, people of intelligence were against it, those with foresight.

Indeed, they were saying that a Jewish state in Palestine would bring generations of death and destruction.

But the dumbards won out and we have had generations of death and destruction.

But, Mr. Tinmore, your fellow Arabs are governing such a huge portion of the Palestine Mandate plus an very enormous portion of the Middle East that one would think a tiny bit of land government by the Jews wouldn't matter that much. After all, we have to remember that most of the Arabs came from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them, the same reason your fellow Arabs have moved to Western countries for jobs these days. Do you happen to know how many heeded the call of one of the previous leaders when the Muslim Brotherhood was in charge in Egypt? Surely you must remember that he said to the Gazans to come back to Egypt where they belong.

 

[irosie91]

True, people of intelligence were against it, those with foresight.

Indeed, they were saying that a Jewish state in Palestine would bring generations of death and destruction.

But the dumbards won out and we have had generations of death and destruction.

But, Mr. Tinmore, your fellow Arabs are governing such a huge portion of the Palestine Mandate plus an very enormous portion of the Middle East that one would think a tiny bit of land government by the Jews wouldn't matter that much. After all, we have to remember that most of the Arabs came from their poor surrounding countries for the jobs the Jews had for them, the same reason your fellow Arabs have moved to Western countries for jobs these days. Do you happen to know how many heeded the call of one of the previous leaders when the Muslim Brotherhood was in charge in Egypt? Surely you must remember that he said to the Gazans to come back to Egypt where they belong.

Sally do not jar his memory. He might remember the REAL reason that Gamal Nasser
conjured up the UAR----(UNITED ARAB REPUBLIC) -----that potential totalitarian
Islamic EMPIRE-----(aka caliphate) and why he fomented a war in May 1967----it was easy---
one after the other arab muslim ambassadors stood up and ANNOUNCED the
reason "WE (ARABS OF THE UNITED ARAB REPUBLIC) WILL NOT TOLERATE
A ZIONIST ENTITY IN OUR MIDST" it is no mystery --------it was EMPIRE----
with no dissent------TOTALITARIANISM (with no pesky jews owning anything at all)
....... and somehow over all those hours and days and into weeks----NO ONE
MENTIONED ""palestinians""

 

[georgephillip]

Even the word "war" is disingenuous in this thread since Israel is the occupying power in Gaza, and, under international law, an occupying power can not declare war on a territory it occupies.

Complicating the situation for the "Jew-First" contingent is the fact that Israel's forty-plus year occupation of Palestine is itself illegal:

"Israeli Violations of International Law - (6) The current Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories is illegal.

"Military actions and occupations are considered legal only if they are based on self-defense (as Israel claims), but it is now clear that Israel's occupation is illegal because Israeli implementation of it clearly is about (1) acquisition of land by force, (2) economic exploitation of the occupied communities (both violations of international law), (3) through unwarranted self-serving alterations of local law (also a violation of international law), and (4) in violation of human rights through the practice of collective punishment and (5) the creation of 'de facto' annexation also benefitting Israel and at the expense of the local population ."

Illegal Military Occupation

 

[Vigilante]