Study: Free birth control leads to fewer abortions; Romney wants to cut access.

[OohPooPahDoo]

Abstract:
We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime by John Donohue, Steven Levitt :: SSRN

 

[candycorn]

This from The Associated Press.

-----------

One has to wonder why the Governor wants to cut off the primary source for low cost contraception to financially challenged women. From his website:

Associated Press | The Register-Guard | Eugene, Oregon

For $300M (or less than 1/3 the cost of a new destroyer the Navy is building), we could prevent a great many abortions, unwanted pregnancies, and help ensure women's health choices. The $300M spent now will be a lot less than building more schools, expanding entitlements, and building more prisons later on when the unwanted pregnancies are carried to term.

Also it should be noted that Title X money is not only provided to Planned Parenthood (no Title money is used for abortions by the way) but to public health departments across the nation; in red states as well as blue states. It is used to pay for everything from iron tablets to condoms to contraceptive foams and creams.

Forum copyright policy, to be found HERE, prohibits posting of pieces in their entirety and requires that you provide a link.

~Oddball

This is something we need a study to tell us? Seems obvious to me. When folks can easily obtain birth control, there are less abortions, less poverty, less crime, and less dependency on the federal government. The right wing isn't concerned about solutions that work, though - they have their principles and nothing else matters, not even reality. And they actually WANT there to be a large underclass to supply them with cheap labor. The more unplanned pregnancies that come to term - the more slave wage labor will be availabel 18 years from now.

Oh, that explains why we have fewer abortions, less poverty, less crime and less dependency now than we did before low-cost/free birth control and legal abortions became available beginning in the 70s and increasingly available through the decades...

Oh...wait a minute....

None of this happens in a vaccuum. When I grew up, you could get a good job for life with a high school education. Now you need a 4 year degree to get the same type of pay rate. When Roe was passed, international competition was just starting. As it increased, wage pressue took hold and cheap labor went overseas.

Freakenomics did a very good job explaining the outcome of the Roe decision. If I thought you were reachable, I 'd post the video of it.

Anyway, if you want to see what runaway population does to a society, look to India. The availability of birth control has created a ladder out of poverty that many have used but many more should be using. To get rid of that ladder when it costs us about $1 apiece is silly; especially when its done--as the governor says--to deprive PP of funding. PP is only one player in the game. He simply doesn't understand what he's talking about.

 

[candycorn]

ever notice that Poodle uses bigger fonts when he's losing an argument?

Yes I have. He uses them quite often.

 

[candycorn]

Anything they can that our tax dollars do now. For instance, you can't have them involved with national security, but you can have them repairing roads.

I never understood why I pay a fortune in taxes to house these worthless animals, and then I have to turn around and pay a fortune in taxes to repair roads/bridges/etc.

Since I'm paying for inmates food, healthcare, housing - they least they can do is EARN it.

Ahh...and the jobs that went to non-inmates paving the roads; I guess their out of work now? You're the best advertisement for why we need 4 more years of Obama.

And you're the best advertisement for the extreme ignorance of dumbocrats when it comes to economics.

The results of any action does not exist in a vacuum stupid. With the significant tax cuts that would come from this model, people would have more money in their pockets. When people have more money in their pockets - they do one of two things. Invest or purchase. They will be buying more plasma tv's, which means more manufacturing. They will buy new automobiles, which means more manufacturing. They will invest, which means more brokers, investment advisors, etc. Jobs do not disappear, they shift.

It truly is astounding how ignorant all of you dumbocrats are on economics. Obama keeps blaming "ATM's" for the bad economy like a fucking 6 year old (how does anyone take this dumb ass serious?!?). He, like you, can't comprehend that for every one bank teller job that an ATM has replaced, their were dozens of higher paying jobs created. Someone had to engineer the design of that ATM. one job Several others had to set up the assembly line that manufactures them 10 jobs in China. Many others had to work on those assembly lines At Foxcon. Still others had to work in shipping sending them offIn Shanhai. Then, more jobs were created by the increased need for UPS/FedEx personnel delivering them around the world.Wow, 1 delivery stop out of a route of 65+stops..way to keep them rolling poodle And finally, someone has to repair those units.This much is true; and they make about what the bank teller made

How embarrassing for both you and Obama...

Ahh, so that is why we have unemployment; those jobs just haven't shifted yet?

 

[koshergrl]

This is something we need a study to tell us? Seems obvious to me. When folks can easily obtain birth control, there are less abortions, less poverty, less crime, and less dependency on the federal government. The right wing isn't concerned about solutions that work, though - they have their principles and nothing else matters, not even reality. And they actually WANT there to be a large underclass to supply them with cheap labor. The more unplanned pregnancies that come to term - the more slave wage labor will be availabel 18 years from now.

Oh, that explains why we have fewer abortions, less poverty, less crime and less dependency now than we did before low-cost/free birth control and legal abortions became available beginning in the 70s and increasingly available through the decades...

Oh...wait a minute....

None of this happens in a vaccuum. When I grew up, you could get a good job for life with a high school education. Now you need a 4 year degree to get the same type of pay rate. When Roe was passed, international competition was just starting. As it increased, wage pressue took hold and cheap labor went overseas.

Freakenomics did a very good job explaining the outcome of the Roe decision. If I thought you were reachable, I 'd post the video of it.

Anyway, if you want to see what runaway population does to a society, look to India. The availability of birth control has created a ladder out of poverty that many have used but many more should be using. To get rid of that ladder when it costs us about $1 apiece is silly; especially when its done--as the governor says--to deprive PP of funding. PP is only one player in the game. He simply doesn't understand what he's talking about.

Sure he doesn't. Only enlightened progressives understand the WHOLE PICTURE.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No.

Actually, yes, the doctors were advising against a medical treatment.

1. Did you read the link?

The IUD and implants are safe and nearly 100 percent effective at preventing pregnancy, and should be "first-line recommendations," the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists said in updating its guidance for teens.

2. Even if they were advising against a certian thing, what difference does that make? They're still making recommendations for medical treatment.

Did you read the part where it said that these are new guidelines, and it talked about how some pediatricians have been reluctant to prescribe them? That, for the idiots among us, means they are advising against them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I see candy has started the lie chain back up.

Kill those babies to save babies!

You know that was a Nazi propaganda line, right? Death for life! heil obama!

Fetuses aren't babies, and women had just as many abortions before Roe v. Wade as they did afterwards.

Since abortion providers were never arrested, it was just like the prohibition laws. Laws no one took seriously, and everyone ignored with impunity.

Not according to Planned Parenthood.

 

[AmyNation]

I see candy has started the lie chain back up.

Kill those babies to save babies!

You know that was a Nazi propaganda line, right? Death for life! heil obama!

Why do you love nazis so much?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This from The Associated Press.

-----------

WASHINGTON (AP) — Free birth control led to dramatically lower rates of abortions and teen births, a large study concludes. The findings were eagerly anticipated and come as a bitterly contested Obama administration policy is poised to offer similar coverage.
The project tracked more than 9,000 women in St. Louis, many of them poor or uninsured. They were given their choice of a range of contraceptive methods at no cost — from birth control pills to goof-proof options like the IUD or a matchstick-sized implant.

When price wasn't an issue, women flocked to the most effective contraceptives — the implanted options, which typically cost hundreds of dollars up-front to insert. These women experienced far fewer unintended pregnancies as a result, reported Dr. Jeffrey Peipert of Washington University in St. Louis in a study published Thursday.

The effect on teen pregnancy was striking: There were 6.3 births per 1,000 teenagers in the study. Compare that to a national rate of 34 births per 1,000 teens in 2010.
There also were substantially lower rates of abortion, when compared with women in the metro area and nationally: 4.4 to 7.5 abortions per 1,000 women in the study, compared with 13.4 to 17 abortions per 1,000 women overall in the St. Louis region, Peipert calculated. That's lower than the national rate, too, which is almost 20 abortions per 1,000 women.

One has to wonder why the Governor wants to cut off the primary source for low cost contraception to financially challenged women. From his website:

Eliminate Title X Family Planning Funding — Savings: $300 Million. Title X subsidizes family planning programs that benefit abortion groups like Planned Parenthood.

Associated Press | The Register-Guard | Eugene, Oregon

For $300M (or less than 1/3 the cost of a new destroyer the Navy is building), we could prevent a great many abortions, unwanted pregnancies, and help ensure women's health choices. The $300M spent now will be a lot less than building more schools, expanding entitlements, and building more prisons later on when the unwanted pregnancies are carried to term.

Also it should be noted that Title X money is not only provided to Planned Parenthood (no Title money is used for abortions by the way) but to public health departments across the nation; in red states as well as blue states. It is used to pay for everything from iron tablets to condoms to contraceptive foams and creams.

Forum copyright policy, to be found HERE, prohibits posting of pieces in their entirety and requires that you provide a link.

~Oddball

This is something we need a study to tell us? Seems obvious to me. When folks can easily obtain birth control, there are less abortions, less poverty, less crime, and less dependency on the federal government. The right wing isn't concerned about solutions that work, though - they have their principles and nothing else matters, not even reality. And they actually WANT there to be a large underclass to supply them with cheap labor. The more unplanned pregnancies that come to term - the more slave wage labor will be availabel 18 years from now.

The thing that makes me laugh is how few people actually bothered to dig through and find out what the study says. one would think a scientist would be one of the people who would want to know what he is actually talking about before he stuck his foot in his mouth, but PooP has already declared that he doesn't care about facts, so finding out that what he assumed is wrong wouldn't bother him even if he did read the study.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is something we need a study to tell us? Seems obvious to me. When folks can easily obtain birth control, there are less abortions, less poverty, less crime, and less dependency on the federal government. The right wing isn't concerned about solutions that work, though - they have their principles and nothing else matters, not even reality. And they actually WANT there to be a large underclass to supply them with cheap labor. The more unplanned pregnancies that come to term - the more slave wage labor will be availabel 18 years from now.

Oh, that explains why we have fewer abortions, less poverty, less crime and less dependency now than we did before low-cost/free birth control and legal abortions became available beginning in the 70s and increasingly available through the decades...

Oh...wait a minute....

What are you waiting for? Crime HAS gone down significantly since about 18-21 years after Roe v Wade. You're a fucking idiot.

As you can see, in the early 90's, about 20 years after Roe v Wade, crime started dropping.



The povery status of black children also took a dive about 20 years after Roe v Wade

And you are the only idiot that thinks there is a connection.

Tell me something, why do social scientists think this has more to do with more economic freedom and better police than it does with abortion?

 

[koshergrl]

I see candy has started the lie chain back up.

Kill those babies to save babies!

You know that was a Nazi propaganda line, right? Death for life! heil obama!

Why do you love nazis so much?

I believe in "learning from history".

Of course, one must actually know history to learn from it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Abstract:
We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime by John Donohue, Steven Levitt :: SSRN

Do you have any idea how widely that claim has been debunked? Can you explain why the peak year for crime among the 12-17 year old was 1993-1994, which was 20 years after Roe, if abortion prevents crimes? Given that other pro abortion supporters have pointed out that the rate of live births was unchanged after after Roe how did something that had a null effect on population result in a negative effect on crime? Why has the percentage of illegitimate births climbed steadily since before Roe?

Unlike you I actually know the answer to these questions. Feel free to ignore me and pretend you are smarter than anyone else, you aren't fooling anyone.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Abstract:
We offer evidence that legalized abortion has contributed significantly to recent crime reductions. Crime began to fall roughly 18 years after abortion legalization. The 5 states that allowed abortion in 1970 experienced declines earlier than the rest of the nation, which legalized in 1973 with Roe v. Wade. States with high abortion rates in the 1970s and 1980s experienced greater crime reductions in the 1990s. In high abortion states, only arrests of those born after abortion legalization fall relative to low abortion states. Legalized abortion appears to account for as much as 50 percent of the recent drop in crime.

The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime by John Donohue, Steven Levitt :: SSRN

Do you have any idea how widely that claim has been debunked?

Why don't you show us.

 

[koshergrl]

"Donohue and Levitt made a number of miscalculations right at the beginning, Lott and Whitley point out. Though abortion was indeed legalized in New York, California, Alaska, Hawaii, and Washington prior to the 1973 Roe decision, there were also a sizeable number of abortions being performed in other states where abortion was legal for the life or "health" of the mother before 1973. Indeed, several of these states had abortion rates as high or higher than those states where abortion was legalized.
For whatever reason, Donohue and Levitt treat states other than the five they focus on as if no abortions had been performed. In fact thousands of abortions took place. This leaves unanswered the obvious question: did their crime rates also drop?
Donohue and Levitt also failed to adequately disaggregate (separate out) those crime statistics by the age, race, or sex of the offender. In failing to do so, Donahue and Levitt are in danger of mistakenly attributing reductions in crime to the impact of abortion among generations that were too old to havew been aborted in a particular year.
Lott and Whitley attempt to replicate Donohue and Levitt's analysis over all states. They refine the data to account for all recorded abortions prior to 1973 and correct for how the age of criminals changed over the years and across states. The revised statistical analysis now shows not a decline, but a slight increase in overall crime due to abortion."

Abortion Link to Crime Decrease Debunked

 

[koshergrl]

"
[SIZE=+2]D[/SIZE]onohue and Levitt went through at least two versions of their paper before putting it in the final form published in the May 2001 Quarterly Journal of Economics, so it is worth looking at what the changes they made tell us about their presuppositions and sensitivities.
Early on, Donohue and Levitt were much more direct in identifying the racial and economic factors involved in their analysis. "Teenagers, unmarried women and African Americans are all substantially more likely to seek abortions," Donohue and Levitt wrote in the 1999 version of their paper. "Children born to these mothers tend to be at higher risk for committing crime 17 years or so down the road, so abortion may reduce subsequent criminality through this selection effect."

Abortion Link to Crime Decrease Debunked

 

[koshergrl]

"Says economist Ted Joyce of Baruch College and the National Bureau of Economic Research, "Can you tease out that effect [of abortion] from crude aggregate data on crime 15 to 20 years later? I don't think so."

Abortion Link to Crime Decrease Debunked

 

[koshergrl]

"We find evidence that legalizing abortion increased

murder rates by around about 0.5 to 7 percent. Previous estimates are shown to suffer from
not directly linking the cohorts who are committing crime with whether they had been born​

before or after abortion was legal."

http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1018&context=lepp_papers

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Impact of Legalized Abortion on Crime by John Donohue, Steven Levitt :: SSRN

Do you have any idea how widely that claim has been debunked?

Why don't you show us.

Because I don't have to.

"Donohue and Levitt made a number of miscalculations right at the beginning, Lott and Whitley point out. Though abortion was indeed legalized in New York, California, Alaska, Hawaii, and Washington prior to the 1973 Roe decision, there were also a sizeable number of abortions being performed in other states where abortion was legal for the life or "health" of the mother before 1973. Indeed, several of these states had abortion rates as high or higher than those states where abortion was legalized.
For whatever reason, Donohue and Levitt treat states other than the five they focus on as if no abortions had been performed. In fact thousands of abortions took place. This leaves unanswered the obvious question: did their crime rates also drop?
Donohue and Levitt also failed to adequately disaggregate (separate out) those crime statistics by the age, race, or sex of the offender. In failing to do so, Donahue and Levitt are in danger of mistakenly attributing reductions in crime to the impact of abortion among generations that were too old to havew been aborted in a particular year.
Lott and Whitley attempt to replicate Donohue and Levitt's analysis over all states. They refine the data to account for all recorded abortions prior to 1973 and correct for how the age of criminals changed over the years and across states. The revised statistical analysis now shows not a decline, but a slight increase in overall crime due to abortion."

Abortion Link to Crime Decrease Debunked

 

[g5000]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fitxofd7kOA]Funniest Commercial Ever - YouTube[/ame]

 

[candycorn]

I see candy has started the lie chain back up.

Kill those babies to save babies!

You know that was a Nazi propaganda line, right? Death for life! heil obama!

Why do you love nazis so much?

I believe in "learning from history".

Of course, one must actually know history to learn from it.

Government spending due to government regulations:

A history lesson.

In the 1980's Nancy and Ronald Reagan promoted "Just Say No" and we started this "war on drugs". 30 years later...bloated prisons, drugs that are almost as easily available as cigarettes in some states, regulations on top of regulations, and dangerous products on the street replete with gangs fighting over turf. This happened 60 years after Prohibition did the same exact thing to alcohol.

Title X funding which costs American citizens $1 per year or $0.028 cents per day prevents pregnancies which leads to fewer abortions, smaller class sizes, enhances the ability to escalate out of poverty, shrinks the welfare rolls, and ultimately leads to fewer occupants of our prisons if you trust the studies that find correlations between unwanted pregnancies and prison terms.

Stripping it away in some election year stunt under the guise of wanting to starve "abortion groups" is a stupid move.