Surprise: New Amnesty Bill Includes $5,000 Penalty for Hiring Americans

[tooAlive]

Not liking this "Gang of Eight" very much right now. Thank God for men like Ted Cruz.

Ted Cruz Rips Amnesty Bill: $5000 Fee For Hiring Americans Over Legalized Aliens // Mr. Conservative

The Texas Senator read the new amnesty bill (all 1,200 pages of it) and then exposed it for what it is on the Senate floor this Tuesday. Cruz found a loophole in the bill that actually punishes an employer with a $5,000 fine for hiring a citizen over a legalized alien. Yes, you read that correctly…

I filed an amendment that would have corrected one of the most egregious aspects of the gang of eight bill as it intersects with Obamacare legislation, namely a penalty imposed on U.S. employers for hiring U.S. citizens and U.S. permanent residents. This bill says if an employer hires a citizen or a legal immigrant, the IRS can impose a $5,000 penalty on that employer. But if the employer instead hires someone with RPI status, that penalty will go away. That is utterly and completely indefensible.
Nobody in this body wants to see African-American unemployment go up. Nobody wants to see Hispanic unemployment go up, youth unemployment go up, union household unemployment go up, legal immigrant unemployment go up. Yet every one of those will happen if this Gang of Eight bill passes without fixing this problem. If that happens, all 100 members of the U.S. Senate will be accountable to our constituents for explaining why we voted to put a federal penalty on hiring U.S. citizens and hiring legal immigrants. I hope this body will choose to pass my amendment and fix this grave defect in the Gang of Eight legislation.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

We need to pass this bill so you find out what's inside it!

 

[g5000]

Please quote the actual provision in the bill that has this fine, please.

 

[Moonglow]

Try being over 50 and getting a job.

 

[hjmick]

Please quote the actual provision in the bill that has this fine, please.

I do not know about the gibberish quoted in the OP, but it has been reported that employers can avoid the ACA $3,000.00 per employee fine for not providing healthcare by hiring newly legal illegal immigrants...

Under the existing Senate immigration bill, immigrants who have been in the United States illegally can obtain a provisional legal status after paying fines and meeting certain preconditions. But this population would have to wait at least 13 years to be able to obtain full citizenship, and it isn’t until then that they could qualify for government benefits such as Obamacare.

The problem arises when this rule interacts with another provision of Obamacare – the employer mandate. Starting in January, businesses with 50 or more employees who don’t offer workers health insurance that the federal government deems acceptable must pay a penalty if at least one of their workers obtains insurance on a new government-run exchange. The penalty is up to $3,000 per worker.

This means if the immigration bill becomes law, some employers could effectively face incentives of hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire newly legalized immigrants over American citizens, because the immigrant workers would not qualify for Obamacare benefits.

Whether or not one likes the source for this information should make no difference, the author's conclusions are drawn from facts already in evidence.

 

[tooAlive]

Please quote the actual provision in the bill that has this fine, please.

I do not know about the gibberish quoted in the OP, but it has been reported that employers can avoid the ACA $3,000.00 per employee fine for not providing healthcare by hiring newly legal illegal immigrants...

Under the existing Senate immigration bill, immigrants who have been in the United States illegally can obtain a provisional legal status after paying fines and meeting certain preconditions. But this population would have to wait at least 13 years to be able to obtain full citizenship, and it isn’t until then that they could qualify for government benefits such as Obamacare.

The problem arises when this rule interacts with another provision of Obamacare – the employer mandate. Starting in January, businesses with 50 or more employees who don’t offer workers health insurance that the federal government deems acceptable must pay a penalty if at least one of their workers obtains insurance on a new government-run exchange. The penalty is up to $3,000 per worker.

This means if the immigration bill becomes law, some employers could effectively face incentives of hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire newly legalized immigrants over American citizens, because the immigrant workers would not qualify for Obamacare benefits.

Whether or not one likes the source for this information should make no difference, the authors conclusions are drawn from facts already in evidence.

This.

If employers hire RPIs they do not face the Obamacare penalty.

So in a nutshell, businesses could simply fire all their employees that are natural-born US citizens and legal immigrants and save $5,000 on each one by re-hiring RPIs.

 

[tooAlive]

Video added to the OP explaining this disaster of a bill.

 

[rightwinger]

Sounds like more conservatives having difficulties understanding the English language

But if Ted Cruz said so, it must be right

 

[tooAlive]

Sounds like more conservatives having difficulties understanding the English language

But if Ted Cruz said so, it must be right

What's so hard to understand?

Amnestied immigrants are exempt from Obamacare.

Therefore businesses are exempt from paying penalties for them.

Which means that there will be an incentive to hire illegal immigrants and not US citizens.

Get it?

 

[RoadVirus]

Deja vu! This bill should be renamed the "Son of Obamacare" bill because it's just as disasterous as Obamacare.

 

[rightwinger]

Sounds like more conservatives having difficulties understanding the English language

But if Ted Cruz said so, it must be right

What's so hard to understand?

Amnestied immigrants are exempt from Obamacare.

Therefore businesses are exempt from paying penalties for them.

Which means that there will be an incentive to hire illegal immigrants and not US citizens.

Get it?

Imagine that...

Maybe Republicans should push a bill to get immigrants covered by Obamacare

 

[g5000]

Please quote the actual provision in the bill that has this fine, please.

I do not know about the gibberish quoted in the OP, but it has been reported that employers can avoid the ACA $3,000.00 per employee fine for not providing healthcare by hiring newly legal illegal immigrants...

Under the existing Senate immigration bill, immigrants who have been in the United States illegally can obtain a provisional legal status after paying fines and meeting certain preconditions. But this population would have to wait at least 13 years to be able to obtain full citizenship, and it isn’t until then that they could qualify for government benefits such as Obamacare.

The problem arises when this rule interacts with another provision of Obamacare – the employer mandate. Starting in January, businesses with 50 or more employees who don’t offer workers health insurance that the federal government deems acceptable must pay a penalty if at least one of their workers obtains insurance on a new government-run exchange. The penalty is up to $3,000 per worker.

This means if the immigration bill becomes law, some employers could effectively face incentives of hundreds of thousands of dollars to hire newly legalized immigrants over American citizens, because the immigrant workers would not qualify for Obamacare benefits.

Whether or not one likes the source for this information should make no difference, the author's conclusions are drawn from facts already in evidence.

Layers within layers. I would like to see the provision which says an employer has to pay $3,000 for every employee using a health insurance exchange.

 

[asaratis]

Deja vu! This bill should be renamed the "Son of Obamacare" bill because it's just as disasterous as Obamacare.

It's all part of the fundamental transformation that the asshole Obama promised us.

 

[g5000]

Starting in January, businesses with 50 or more employees who don’t offer workers health insurance that the federal government deems acceptable must pay a penalty if at least one of their workers obtains insurance on a new government-run exchange. The penalty is up to $3,000 per worker.

Turns out that is incorrect. And the link in their own article proves them wrong.

In 2014, if an employer employs enough employees to be subject to the Employer Shared Responsibility provisions and does not offer coverage during the calendar year to at least 95% of its full-time employees, it owes an Employer Shared Responsibility payment equal to the number of full-time employees the employer employed for the year (minus 30) multiplied by $2,000, as long as at least one full-time employee receives the premium tax credit.

So if you have 50 employees and don't provide them insurance, as long as one does not use the health insurance exchange, there is no fine.

But if one or more do use the exchange, you are fined a total of $40,000 ($2,000 x 20). Not $150,000 ($3,000 x 50) as claimed.

The $40,000 fine is way cheaper than paying for insurance for 50 employees, though. That costs upward of $500,000.




And for those who do provide insurance to their employees, but one or more employees use an exchange and receives a subsidy, then the fine is really tiny:

For an employer that offers coverage to at least 95% of its full-time employees in 2014, but has one or more full-time employees who receive a premium tax credit, the payment is computed separately for each month. The amount of the payment for the month equals the number of full-time employees who receive a premium tax credit for that month multiplied by 1/12 of $3,000.

So an employee must qualify for a federal health insurance subsidy before a fine can even be levied against the employer. And then the employer is only fined $250 per employee who received a subsidy.

He is not fined for every employee. Only for the ones who used the exchange, and then only for those who received a subsidy.

 

[edthecynic]

Cruz found a loophole in the bill that actually punishes an employer with a $5,000 fine for hiring a citizen over a legalized alien.

Please quote the actual provision in the bill that has this fine, please.

I do not know about the gibberish quoted in the OP, but it has been reported that employers can avoid the ACA $3,000.00 per employee fine for not providing healthcare by hiring newly legal illegal immigrants...

It seems like Cruz and the Examiner can't get their lies coordinated!

 

[g5000]

So in a nutshell, businesses could simply fire all their employees that are natural-born US citizens and legal immigrants and save $5,000 on each one by re-hiring RPIs.

No one has provided evidence of Cruz's claim of a $5000 fine for hiring an American citizen.

When you stop to think about it, does the claim make the slightest bit of sense?

Nope.

"This bill says if an employer hires a citizen or a legal immigrant, the IRS can impose a $5,000 penalty on that employer."

Ask your employer if he believes he will be fined $5000 every time he hires a new employee from now on. I assure you, he won't buy it and will demand evidence.

It is an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence.

 

[tooAlive]

Cruz found a loophole in the bill that actually punishes an employer with a $5,000 fine for hiring a citizen over a legalized alien.

Please quote the actual provision in the bill that has this fine, please.

I do not know about the gibberish quoted in the OP, but it has been reported that employers can avoid the ACA $3,000.00 per employee fine for not providing healthcare by hiring newly legal illegal immigrants...

It seems like Cruz and the Examiner can't get their lies coordinated!

The penalty isn't tax-deductible.

So while the $3,000 is taken out of your income, you're still taxed on the amount earned before the penalty was taken out.

In the end, the total penalty to employers is give or take $5,000.

 

[hjmick]

Starting in January, businesses with 50 or more employees who don’t offer workers health insurance that the federal government deems acceptable must pay a penalty if at least one of their workers obtains insurance on a new government-run exchange. The penalty is up to $3,000 per worker.

Turns out that is incorrect. And the link in their own article proves them wrong.

In 2014, if an employer employs enough employees to be subject to the Employer Shared Responsibility provisions and does not offer coverage during the calendar year to at least 95% of its full-time employees, it owes an Employer Shared Responsibility payment equal to the number of full-time employees the employer employed for the year (minus 30) multiplied by $2,000, as long as at least one full-time employee receives the premium tax credit.

So if you have 50 employees and don't provide them insurance, as long as one does not use the health insurance exchange, there is no fine.

But if one or more do use the exchange, you are fined a total of $40,000 ($2,000 x 20). Not $150,000 ($3,000 x 50) as claimed.

The $40,000 fine is way cheaper than paying for insurance for 50 employees, though. That costs upward of $500,000.




And for those who do provide insurance to their employees, but one or more employees use an exchange and receives a subsidy, then the fine is really tiny:

For an employer that offers coverage to at least 95% of its full-time employees in 2014, but has one or more full-time employees who receive a premium tax credit, the payment is computed separately for each month. The amount of the payment for the month equals the number of full-time employees who receive a premium tax credit for that month multiplied by 1/12 of $3,000.

So an employee must qualify for a federal health insurance subsidy before a fine can even be levied against the employer. And then the employer is only fined $250 per employee who received a subsidy.

He is not fined for every employee. Only for the ones who used the exchange, and then only for those who received a subsidy.

Now we need only figure out how the newly legal immigrants will figure into the whole mess...

 

[g5000]

Cruz found a loophole in the bill that actually punishes an employer with a $5,000 fine for hiring a citizen over a legalized alien.

I do not know about the gibberish quoted in the OP, but it has been reported that employers can avoid the ACA $3,000.00 per employee fine for not providing healthcare by hiring newly legal illegal immigrants...

It seems like Cruz and the Examiner can't get their lies coordinated!

The penalty isn't tax-deductible.

So while the $3,000 is taken out of your income, you're still taxed on the amount earned before the penalty was taken out.

In the end, the total penalty to employers is give or take $5,000.

You are confabulating an ObamaCare penalty with Cruz's claim of an entirely new penalty in the immigration bill, which he says is a $5000 fine for hiring a new worker.

 

[tooAlive]

So in a nutshell, businesses could simply fire all their employees that are natural-born US citizens and legal immigrants and save $5,000 on each one by re-hiring RPIs.

No one has provided evidence of Cruz's claim of a $5000 fine for hiring an American citizen.

When you stop to think about it, does the claim make the slightest bit of sense?

Nope.

"This bill says if an employer hires a citizen or a legal immigrant, the IRS can impose a $5,000 penalty on that employer."

Ask your employer if he believes he will be fined $5000 every time he hires a new employee.

It is an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence.

I think you're being a little purposely ignorant here, which is surprising given your other very intelligent posts on here.

It's no surprise that many employers are deliberately cutting their employee's hours to under 30 so they won't be required to cover their health insurance.

With this bill they could fire all their costly part-time employees and hire full-time illegal immigrants that are exempt from Obamacare penalties.