Tax and Spending Proposal That Makes Sense

[eflatminor]

Yet, they're [the rich] paying a much higher percentage of the overall tax burden. MUCH higher. Meanwhile, the middle class is paying a much lower percentage than they at any time in the past. . . . The top 25% pay 83 percent of the taxes. Meanwhile, the bottom 50% pay less than 4 percent of the taxes, but it's the rich that are "parasites"? Think about just how stupid that makes you sound.

Uh, it's the rich that pay all these taxes, more so than at any time in the past...but they're 'parasites'. How does that square? Was there some law that required poor people to write a check to a rich person that I didn't hear about? .

Since the rich are so much richer now than 30 years ago, then, yes, they should pay their fair share.

And they are...more of that share than they ever have. So what are you bitching about? Of course, if we had a flat tax with no loopholes, the rich would still be paying more than ever before...probably even more than today. After all, if they're getting richer, a flat tax would ensure they pay more. Meanwhile, nearly half the country wouldn't be getting a free ride.

See how that logic and reason thing works?

America's wealth is the middle class economically and culturally, while the parasites are the rich.

Nothing I have seen posted on this Board has ever given even a minor significance that the rich is the economic and cultural center of America.

Always it has been the working man and women and the middle class families that have made America the desired center of the human race.

You sycophants and lackeys of the wealthy can step off.

Your overwhelming class bias makes clear that you support inequality not because the middle class is worse off (which you admit they're not), but because you just can't stand that some people thrive, while others don't. What a petty, jealous little man you are.

 

[JakeStarkey]

eflatminor, you have overwhelming fail here.

Your class bias in favor of the rich reveals your agenda: the rich get richer at the expense of everyone else.

The ad hom of your petty jealousy you discuss is yours, only yours.

 

[eflatminor]

eflatminor, you have overwhelming fail here.

Your class bias in favor of the rich reveals your agenda: the rich get richer at the expense of everyone else.

The ad hom of your petty jealousy you discuss is yours, only yours.

I call for a flat tax that would result in those ever-richer rich paying more than they do today...but I'm biased in favor of the rich...

I'm jealous of no one. Hell, I'm in the group that actually pays income tax. Who in the fuck do I have to be jealous of?

Tool.

Let us know when you're ready to make a cogent argument in favor of inequality.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The flat tax will lead for the middle and poorer classes paying an even greater share of their income.

That is class warfare by you, eflatminor, a regressive class warfare.

You should be ashamed, and you should not be jealous of the working men and women of America.

I pay the higher tax on my retirement income, and I believe the capital gains revenue % has to be increased.

Do that, and I will still do very, very will.

You have no cogent argument, none, in favor of your regressive program.

 

[eflatminor]

The flat tax will lead for the middle and poorer classes paying an even greater share of their income.

Well, given that nearly have of Americas pay NO income tax, it's not "an even greater share". A greater share of zero is still zero.

But yes, I think everyone that earns an income should have their skin in the game. It's only fair.

That is class warfare by you, eflatminor, a regressive class warfare.

When everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income, it's hardly class warfare, it's equality. I stand for equality. You clearly do not.

You should be ashamed, and you should not be jealous of the working men and women of America.

I am a working man in America.

I pay the higher tax on my retirement income, and I believe the capital gains revenue % has to be increased.

Of course you do. Cuz government does so well with our money...

Do that, and I will still do very, very will.

Well that's all that matters, isn't it...

You have no cogent argument, none, in favor of your regressive program

Flat is not regressive. It's fair.

Ironically, you have no cogent argument, none, in favor of your progressive program. Other than your obvious hatred of those that have done better than you. Good luck with that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

eflatminor is simply a broken record, who wants the middle and working classes to pay more even though he and I are doing well. He wants a regressive tax program to take more from them and give more to us, even though we don't need it. An aside: very few have here done better than me.

 

[eflatminor]

even though we don't need it.

And who gets to decide that? You? Pass.

An aside: very few have here done better than me.

Sure, sure you have...

 

[pinqy]

When everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income, it's hardly class warfare, it's equality.

Is it? Consumption as a percent of income is important. Basically, Income can be used as Consumption, Savings, or Investment.

Assume 0 income tax:
Person A's income goes 92% to Consumption, 6% to Savings, 2% to Investment
Person B has 78% Consumption, 14% Savings, 8% Investment
Person C has 59% Consumption, 10% Savings, 30% Investment.

Now we assess a 30% flat income tax. A's consumption will be seriously affected. B's consumption will be moderately affected, and C can live exactly the same lifestyle and simply save and/or invest less. The impact of cutting Savings or Investment is NOT as severe as cutting Consumption which is the basic living expenses (including recreation and hobbies)

So we know that the higher the income the lower the percent of Consumption Spending. The lowest 20% spend over 200% of their income on Consumption (government assistance is not counted as part of income), While the top 20% spend 59% of their income on Consumption.

So while nominally fair, a flat tax has a much greater negative effect on lower income.

 

[eflatminor]

When everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income, it's hardly class warfare, it's equality.

Is it? Consumption as a percent of income is important.

What a person chooses to consume, save or invest is up to them, not you or the government.

Basically, Income can be used as Consumption, Savings, or Investment.

Assume 0 income tax:
Person A's income goes 92% to Consumption, 6% to Savings, 2% to Investment
Person B has 78% Consumption, 14% Savings, 8% Investment
Person C has 59% Consumption, 10% Savings, 30% Investment.

Now we assess a 30% flat income tax. A's consumption will be seriously affected.

First, 30% is a ridiculously high rate. Second, if you're going to have an income tax, EVERYBODY'S income should be effected. How any one particular income earner chooses to spend his money is not your business.

That said, I would support the notion of taxing everyone on a flat basis above a certain income level. That way, the first X dollars earned are not taxed for anyone, which makes any claims of the poor's 'seriously affected' consumption moot.

So while nominally fair, a flat tax has a much greater negative effect on lower income.

Will you also agree that in today's progressive and loophole laden tax scheme that it is far from fair that nearly half pay absolutely no income tax? Certainly, half the country should not be giving the other half a free ride.

So, I can agree with your case for the poor by excluding the first X dollars of income from any taxation. Deal?

 

[JakeStarkey]

eflatminor is just doing the libertarian song, "I don't want to pay my fair share of taxes."

Guess what: he will, and he will keep on complainin' and keep on payin'.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Every dollar earned should be taxed at the same rate.

10% off the top on earned income, capital gains, corporate income etc.

Treat them all the same.

That is the only fair way to tax.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Every dollar earned should be taxed at the same rate.

10% off the top on earned income, capital gains, corporate income etc.

Treat them all the same.

That is the only fair way to tax.

Why?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Every dollar earned should be taxed at the same rate.

10% off the top on earned income, capital gains, corporate income etc.

Treat them all the same.

That is the only fair way to tax.

Why?

Because it is equally applied and uniform.

There is no difference between types of income.

What is the difference between me buying stock and selling it for a gain or me buying a product marking it up and selling it for a profit?

What is the difference if i get paid for my labor and earn money or if I rent an apartment and earn money?

Right now all those types of income are treated differently. Why?

No one has yet been able to explain to me why your first dollar earned should be taxed less than your 50 thousandth dollar earned.

So by eliminating the arbitrary brackets everyone is treated exactly the same no matter how they earn their money. That is the very definition of fair.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

A. Federal income tax rates by segment of earnings
(1) 0-$50K = not taxed
(2) $50K-$100K =20%
(3) $100K-$250K = 25%
(4) $250K - $5kk = 33%
(5) above $5kk = 40%


B. State Income Tax by segment of earnings
(1) 0-$50K = not taxed
(2) $50K-$100K = 3%
(3) $100K-$250K = 5%
(4) $250K - $5kk = 7%
(5) above $5kk = 9%

All personal income except insurance receipts are taxed at the same rate. No exceptions.
No joint filing. No deductions.

Inheritances tax free to $10kk. 33% federal above that; 17% state above that. No exemptions, no exceptions.

Mandatory prison sentences for tax fraud exceeding $50k in one year, total sentence to be based on multiples of $50k. No exceptions on conviction.

Federal and State Pensions:
Effective as speedily as legal, ban future pensions not indexed to private pensions and wages across entire private sector segments (not just averages of companies paying pensions, but averages of the entire sector) then index current payments to the average local area private sector pension for wages paid over career with no reduction in payments to people whose pensions are below $36k/a. This creates a significant legal battle that will probably take a constitutional amendment like the one ending prohibition, a one-off ex post facto fiat telling top level grifting fucks how its going to be.
Offer government workers the same plans available to private sector workers with a prohibition on matches over 5% and medical plans in retirement.

Means test social security; collect payment to the last dollar earned; bar payments to people who never worked; structure payments based on quarters worked, amounts paid in and max payments at $2.5k/m. Adjust every five years by act of congress only.

Corporate Tax -
100% domestic assembly, 50% domestic sourced = 0% tax
50% domestic assembly, 50% domestic sourced = 10% tax
All others, 20% of net after hard costs or 5% of gross whichever is more

No deductions except hard costs.
Mandatory prison sentences and confiscation of personal assets for officers of corporations found to commit tax fraud.

Tariffs: perfectly reciprocal (exactly equal to what the trade-nation's tariffs are on similar US goods) PLUS indexed costs per item associated with manufacturers not meeting US environmental and safety standards.

End federal meddling in education, period. End earmarks, period.

A constitutional amendment banning military, police and defense spending being more than 5% of the federal budget except during declared wars.



With a hard across the board spending freeze, no pay increases in government until private sector wages in every sector equal or surpass government pay, and no increase in grants, the budget would be balanced in four or five years and the debt could be restructured to maintain manageable rates as far out as anyone living can envision.

 

[editec]

People who talk about tax that is FAIR, remind me of gigantic bullies who want ONLY FAIR FIGHTING when they attack little people.

Remember now, even though I have 100 lbs and a two feet height advantage on you in this fight, do NOT kick me in the balls because that wouldn't be FAAAAAAAAAAAIR fighting.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5f5_KdLEw4]Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid - YouTube[/ame]

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

With a hard across the board spending freeze, no pay increases in government until private sector wages in every sector equal or surpass government pay, and no increase in grants, the budget would be balanced in four or five years and the debt could be restructured to maintain manageable rates as far out as anyone living can envision.

Republicans would sign on is a second while liberals of course would not!!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, the "equality" and "fair" freaks are merely saying, "I don't want to pay taxes, so I want you to pay mine."

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Every dollar earned should be taxed at the same rate.

10% off the top on earned income, capital gains, corporate income etc.

Treat them all the same.

That is the only fair way to tax.

Why?

Because it is equally applied and uniform.

There is no difference between types of income.

What is the difference between me buying stock and selling it for a gain or me buying a product marking it up and selling it for a profit?

What is the difference if i get paid for my labor and earn money or if I rent an apartment and earn money?

Right now all those types of income are treated differently. Why?

No one has yet been able to explain to me why your first dollar earned should be taxed less than your 50 thousandth dollar earned.

So by eliminating the arbitrary brackets everyone is treated exactly the same no matter how they earn their money. That is the very definition of fair.

No no no, what is fair is when everyone pays the same tax just like they pay the same price in the supermarket.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yup, the "equality" and "fair" freaks are merely saying, "I don't want to pay taxes, so I want you to pay mine."

Kinda like you sheep who want so called rich people to pay their "fair" share?

 

[eflatminor]

Yup, the "equality" and "fair" freaks are merely saying, "I don't want to pay taxes, so I want you to pay mine."

Kinda like you sheep who want so called rich people to pay their "fair" share?

We are the ones that actually the income taxes while 1/2 the country pays nothing...but 'ol Jakey is just sure that's fair and we're 'freaks' for pointing out the inequality. Logic and reason be damned and never mind the hypocracy...Jakey knows what's best for us all...