"Tax Cuts Don't Pay for Themselves" - GOP Economists

Then you don't understand what the word "pay" means in its entirety. You are using it in a narrow and political context, as I stated above. If there is a jacket on sale, the sale ends and you buy it full price, you "pay" for waiting and not buying it on sale. "Pay" can be used in many contexts. People who make your argument only understand it one way.

And BTW, I agree with you that it is not the government's money.

I am not using it in a political context, you are. Here are all the definitions of the word pay that exist, I challenge you to find any of them that come close to paying for tax cuts.

Pay | Define Pay at Dictionary.com

Pay - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

pay, n. : Oxford English Dictionary

pay, v.1 : Oxford English Dictionary

pay, v.2 : Oxford English Dictionary

You are very much arguing from a political context. From a Marxist standpoint, the collective has a right to your labour, and that the collective pays when the individual receives a tax cut. Even if I agree with your political argument - which I do - it is still wrong from a linguistics standpoint.

From Webster





In the English language is the same as

To compensate for our tax cuts, we will have to cut our police force and will have higher crime.
Definition of COMPENSATE
transitive verb
1
: to be equivalent to : counterbalance
Compensate - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

The counterbalance of tax cuts are fewer police. We "pay" for tax cuts by having less police. The term "pay" does not just fit within the political context of individual private property ownership, as you imply.

I am not a Marxist, I don't believe the collective is entitled to anything but my contempt.

For the record, neutralizing the effect of is not the same thing as paying for. You have to neutralize the effect of lost wages by reducing spending, not by paying more for something.
 
For the record, neutralizing the effect of is not the same thing as paying for. You have to neutralize the effect of lost wages by reducing spending, not by paying more for something.

"Pay" in the context of "paying for tax cuts by firing police and having more crime" is absolutely correct in the English language. "Pay" does not only mean monetary compensation, though it does mean that as well. That's why we say one pays for being drunk the night before by being hung over today, or one pays for infidelities by one's wife leaving. There is not a monetary transaction, but a compensating response to one's action. There is a trade-off. One "pays" for the trade-off. "Pay" doesn't just mean paying the police out of taxes. It also means the trade-offs of having a police force or the lack thereof.
 
Those citizens who want a police force agree on a social contract that allows for a police force as well as fire protection, a water and sewer system, shared utilities, shared schools, and all other city services that were quite adequately produced before the federal government got involved in any of that. These are not intended nor practical functions of the federal government.
 
Couple things...the government social services produces consumers, and those consumers buy from private businesses thus shoring up their economies,

too stupid but 100% liberal.

1) If tax and spend worked recessions and depressions would be a thing of the past.

2) taking from the productive and giving to the unproductive depresses an economy obviously

3)an economy grows one way and way only and that is from new or improved products from the productive class.

See why we are positve a liberal will be slow, so very very slow?

When the productive become unproductive & start hording cash causing recession then tax & spend works. Tax cuts little to stimulate spending & hiring for someone bent on hording cash.

The last people who are interested in hoarding cash are rich people. Putting their money to work is how they make their money so hoarding it is counter intuitive. What we have now isn't hoarding for the sake of having money to hoard, it's paralyzing fear over a political instability. Why do rich people have investment accounts and not savings accounts? Do they hide vast amounts of cash under the bed? Buried in the backyard?
 
The only way a tax cut is going to help the economy in the long term is to keep the spending low.

The problem with the Bush tax cuts, is that his administration is spending money like it isn't lent and sold to us at interest or something. So how the hell is the economy going to strengthen, the budget stay balanced, and our debt stay low, if you're going to lessen revenue, but increase spending? It doesn't make any sense, does it?

Don't just stop at Bush2. you can take that back to 1913 when the FED was signed into law. This total ass rape of America has been going on for decades. and one of the MAIN REASONS that JFK was taken out....in public....for all to see...

Rosharch Test successful.

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For the record, neutralizing the effect of is not the same thing as paying for. You have to neutralize the effect of lost wages by reducing spending, not by paying more for something.

"Pay" in the context of "paying for tax cuts by firing police and having more crime" is absolutely correct in the English language. "Pay" does not only mean monetary compensation, though it does mean that as well. That's why we say one pays for being drunk the night before by being hung over today, or one pays for infidelities by one's wife leaving. There is not a monetary transaction, but a compensating response to one's action. There is a trade-off. One "pays" for the trade-off. "Pay" doesn't just mean paying the police out of taxes. It also means the trade-offs of having a police force or the lack thereof.

Strange, I posted multiple dictionary definitions of the word pay, and asked you to show one that fit in with the way you are using the word. You found one that used the word compensate, then used the word in a context that means neutralizing the effect of something. Can you show me any definition of the word pay that means neutralizing the effect of, or did compensate in the definition you chose actually mean to make appropriate and, usually, counterbalancing payment to?

Just as an aside, what if those tax cuts actually yield both a reduced police force and a reduced crime rate? Did we still pay for them or do we only have to pay for them if there is a negative effect?
 
Those citizens who want a police force agree on a social contract that allows for a police force as well as fire protection, a water and sewer system, shared utilities, shared schools, and all other city services that were quite adequately produced before the federal government got involved in any of that. These are not intended nor practical functions of the federal government.

The problem with this approach is that it ignores externalities, benefits and costs that benefit or burden economic players outside of the locality. For example, suppose that Memphis Tennessee decided that it didn't need to spend money on waste water treatment since it could just dump all of its polluted sewage into the Mississippi River (downstream of its water supply intake, of course). This actually happened for much of the nineteenth century. The costs of treating Memphis' waste water was converted to a cost of downriver communities in processing potable water.

Now there are several ways to resolve this issue. One is to do nothing and let everyone fend for themselves. This works great for Memphis until upstream cities such as St Louis decide to do the same. Result: endemic typhus, typhoid, and dysentery.

The standard solution has been to pass laws mandating sewage treatment before sewage is dumped into common waterways. Since this is often interstate, it becomes a national concern. But there are some situations where the local government does not have the resources to provide the needed treatment plant. So we have another choice: shut down Memphis or subsidize their treatment plant.

Parallel arguments can be made for virtually any local public service. Do fires or criminals respect jurisdiction boundaries? Or try driving US Highway 98 from Hattiesburg to Mobile and see what happens. HINT: the four-lane stops at the Alabama--Mississippi border for more than 15 miles.

So local governments making decisions on the basis of the benefits and costs to their community ONLY will almost always underproduce projects that benefit other communities and overproduce projects that shift costs onto other communities. If you know of a solution that does not involve action by state or federal agencies, I'd like to hear it.
 
they absolutely can. For example, you reduce the capital gains tax on venture capitalists, they have more money to fund more new ventures like Apple Google Intel and Facebook and the government has tons and tons of new revenue for eternity!!

There is no tax on investing. Only on gains at the end of an investment when it is sold. Investors do not reduce investing due to capital gains. I thought the market would soar when Bush cut capital gains tax in half, but it did not. The market & investment went down & money flowed into housing. Capital gains should be taxed just like ordinary income. Once you earn above standard deduction amount you should have to pay just like earned income. This tax money goes to pay someone else who will in turn invest it just as the tax payer would have. the investment is not lost.

This tax money goes to pay someone else who will in turn invest it just as the tax payer would have.

Yes! The increased tax revenues will go to Obama and will be invested in great companies.....like Solyndra!

12+ million defaulted bad loans made by Wallstreet & backed by us taxpayers -VS- a few bad loan guarantees made by government. :dunno:
 
the OP is very misleading.

Cutting taxes DOES create surplus. As long as you don't spend it right back.

Cutting taxes like Property Taxes will save homeowners a truckload.
Cutting taxes on Imported/Exported goods will save American taxpayers a bundle.

If Obama and Mittens were smart they would RAISE TAXES on China/Japan/Germany because they are getting away with murder on the import/export front.

Have any you been to the Mercedes car lot lately?...a fucking Mercedes CLS55 is $102,000 bucks. that's murder when I can fly over there to Germany in person and get one for $50,000
 
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the OP is very misleading.

Cutting taxes DOES create surplus. As long as you don't spend it right back.

Cutting taxes like Property Taxes will save homeowners a truckload.
Cutting taxes on Imported/Exported goods will save American taxpayers a bundle.

If Obama and Mittens were smart they would RAISE TAXES on China/Japan/Germany because they are getting away with murder on the import/export front.

Have any you been to the Mercedes car lot lately?...a fucking Mercedes CLS55 is $102,000 bucks. that's murder when I can fly over there to Germany in person and get one for $50,000

If you raise taxes on Germany the CLS55 will cost the American people more than $102,000! Higher prices are a bad thing.
 
the OP is very misleading.

Cutting taxes DOES create surplus. As long as you don't spend it right back.

Cutting taxes like Property Taxes will save homeowners a truckload.
Cutting taxes on Imported/Exported goods will save American taxpayers a bundle.

If Obama and Mittens were smart they would RAISE TAXES on China/Japan/Germany because they are getting away with murder on the import/export front.

Have any you been to the Mercedes car lot lately?...a fucking Mercedes CLS55 is $102,000 bucks. that's murder when I can fly over there to Germany in person and get one for $50,000

If you raise taxes on Germany the CLS55 will cost the American people more than $102,000! Higher prices are a bad thing.

German profit margin will be a lot less & the US profit will be much more.
 
There is no tax on investing. Only on gains at the end of an investment when it is sold. Investors do not reduce investing due to capital gains. I thought the market would soar when Bush cut capital gains tax in half, but it did not. The market & investment went down & money flowed into housing. Capital gains should be taxed just like ordinary income. Once you earn above standard deduction amount you should have to pay just like earned income. This tax money goes to pay someone else who will in turn invest it just as the tax payer would have. the investment is not lost.

This tax money goes to pay someone else who will in turn invest it just as the tax payer would have.

Yes! The increased tax revenues will go to Obama and will be invested in great companies.....like Solyndra!

12+ million defaulted bad loans made by Wallstreet & backed by us taxpayers -VS- a few bad loan guarantees made by government. :dunno:

are you a socialist? Do you want Obozo to make all our investment decisions or do you want them made by private people investing their own hard earned money?

Now even a liberal can understand why the USSR failed!!
 
This tax money goes to pay someone else who will in turn invest it just as the tax payer would have.

Yes! The increased tax revenues will go to Obama and will be invested in great companies.....like Solyndra!

12+ million defaulted bad loans made by Wallstreet & backed by us taxpayers -VS- a few bad loan guarantees made by government. :dunno:

are you a socialist? Do you want Obozo to make all our investment decisions or do you want them made by private people investing their own hard earned money?

Now even a liberal can understand why the USSR failed!!

Are you saying that Bush's no bid contracts & cost plus contracts were better than Solyndra?

A GSE that allows business to socialize losses & privatize gains is worse than socialism.
 
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12+ million defaulted bad loans made by Wallstreet & backed by us taxpayers -VS- a few bad loan guarantees made by government. :dunno:

are you a socialist? Do you want Obozo to make all our investment decisions or do you want them made by private people investing their own hard earned money?

Now even a liberal can understand why the USSR failed!!

Are you saying that Bush's no bid contracts & cost plus contracts were better than Solyndra?

A GSE that allows business to socialize losses & privatize gains is worse than socialism.

you complete moron liberal!! I'm saying that private people investing their own hard earned money will do far better than liberal bureaucrats playing with other people's money!

Still over your head??
 
the OP is very misleading.

Cutting taxes DOES create surplus. As long as you don't spend it right back.

Cutting taxes like Property Taxes will save homeowners a truckload.
Cutting taxes on Imported/Exported goods will save American taxpayers a bundle.

If Obama and Mittens were smart they would RAISE TAXES on China/Japan/Germany because they are getting away with murder on the import/export front.

Have any you been to the Mercedes car lot lately?...a fucking Mercedes CLS55 is $102,000 bucks. that's murder when I can fly over there to Germany in person and get one for $50,000

If you raise taxes on Germany the CLS55 will cost the American people more than $102,000! Higher prices are a bad thing.

Not if we tell them they have a set number of vehicles they can sell in our Market they won't. they will drop those car prices so fast your head will spin. because ULTIMATELY it's about moving units, not gouging the customer. they will gladly lower the prices if they have no other choice. Americans buy more Mercedes than they do themselves since they rarely drive theirs as much as we drive them.

As it stands, they can charge whatever the fuck they want for a CLS55, just like they are doing right now.

Who is the fuck got $102,000 bucks laying around in this shitbag economy????

WHY are they still having these high priced vehicles shipped daily to our shores when our economy is in the gotdamn trashcan???? WHY? because Obama won't make them stop that's why.

It's nothing for Obama to Pen an Executive Order "Imported auto taxes from other country will be drastically cut since our economy is in the shitter and our buying power is low. so you fancy car companies listenin up(Obama voice)"

I bet you good money Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW drop them prices quick. They know who their cash cow on auto sales comes from.
 
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Not if we tell them they have a set number of vehicles they can sell in our Market they won't. they will drop those car prices so fast your head will spin.

when liberals restrict imports with a quota or tax, that makes the price go up, not down.
 
Not if we tell them they have a set number of vehicles they can sell in our Market they won't. they will drop those car prices so fast your head will spin.

when liberals restrict imports with a quota or tax, that makes the price go up, not down.

Temporary price hike to scare us. small potatos won't last long. they are not that stupid trust me. they WANT/NEED to move those vehicles as fast as possible to make room for newer models. and what country buys luxury vehicles more than America? none. Not even the Saudis.

When I was over there during my 2 tours, they were practically giving away S500 Benzos with 35,000 miles on them for like $6,500 bucks...THAT'S CHEAP! In America the same mileage car on a car lot or off craigslist is double that. $12,000 easy.

I'm telling you, a sure fire way to boost this Economy is check those countries that are bending us over the table on auto sales just because they can.

It's no way in HELL I'd buy a brand new Bimmer, Merc or Lexus in America after finding out what I know now. I will ALWAYS buy them used in this country. too much of a gotdamn rip-off at the showroom and THEY KNOW IT.

FYI- Mercedes Benz S-class is the #1 Taxi they use over there. So to them...a Benz is like a Ford Taurus to us.

a TAXI
 
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I'm telling you, a sure fire way to boost this Economy

there is one way and one way only to boost an economy!! Think about how we got from the stone age to here. People invented new products. Its just that simple!! No amount of liberal tricks and paper shuffling in Washington will boost the economy!!

If its not in support of innovative new products its liberal and won't work!!!!
 
Temporary price hike to scare us.

you missed the point!! If they can sell x units at $102,000 they can sell x-20% units at $150,000!!

its basic supply and demand!! sorry. As the quanity goes down
the price goes up

You fail to see whose the Needy and whose the Greedy.

the Needy are the car makers. the Greedy are the foolish American fools willing to pay such ridiculous prices.

If they were stupid enough to raise the price after a quota sanction, they don't wanna sell no cars and are better off opening up a Museum.

Nobody is that damn stupid and antsy to pay $150K for a Benz after finding out it was
$120K a month ago.

Let's be sensible here. the Supply & Demand is at the mercy of the buyer, NOT the seller.

a little math lesson is in order:

20 Bimmers x $150K =$3 million
20 Bimmers x $120K = $2.4 million


America still wins. And it's not smart business for the auto makers
 
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