Teachers' Union To Sue Private Schools Over Voucher Program...

[NYcarbineer]

Just for clarity, which I know is not relevant to most conservatives on this forum but I'll post it anyway,

this is what the Jindal/Louisiana voucher program looks like:

Jindal Vouchers’ Price Tag « The Daily Kingfish

 

[squeeze berry]

Not true. Even when you control for the quality of the students, private schools do a better job. Those regulations are part the reason government schools suck. When you have government schools, you have regulations. That's never going to change. That's just one more reason to support vouchers.

cam we have a link to that study please?

Right after you provide a link to the study that says private schools perform better because they only accept the smart kids.

Private Schools vs. Public Schools: Why Do Private School Students Achieve Better Results? « Educhatter's Blog

"In the August 2011 study reported in PISA in Focus, private school students at 14-years-of-age were compared with the much larger public school cohort using results from the 2009 Program of International Standards and Assessment (PISA). Based upon straight results, private school students in 36 OECD countries, including Canada, scored 30 points higher in PISA reading scores, essentially equivalent to three-quarters of a year’s worth of formal schooling. The private school performance edge, according to the OECD researchers, was attributable to three key factors: the competitive school environment, greater teacher autonomy in deciding curriculum and allocating resources, and the ability to attract higher performing socially-advantaged students. "

 

[squeeze berry]

1. Pay teachers according to merit.
   
2. Fire teachers who don't perform.
   
3. Groups kids according to ability rather than according to age.

4. Fail students who have earned it.

5. Boot out hooligans

it's illegal to boot out students.
Education in the US is free and cumpulsory in most states until age 18. If they get booted out they go to a taxpayer funded alternative school that is Veeeery expensive.

If a student would get booted out of a private school, where do you think they go? I have seen that happen BTW.

Were you aware that intellectually disabled and some autistic students are pemitted to stay in school until age 22?

Do private schools deal with that?

Do private schools accept anyone on the far left side of the bell curve?

 

[squeeze berry]

Just for clarity, which I know is not relevant to most conservatives on this forum but I'll post it anyway,

this is what the Jindal/Louisiana voucher program looks like:

Jindal Vouchers’ Price Tag « The Daily Kingfish

OK

so you give vouchers to those students that are from schools graded a C, D, or F.

Fine.....

Are the private schoos required to accept the student?

Remember, this student is from a school that is failing or not top notch. The student could be part of the reason the school is failing.

 

[paulitician]

Teacher Unions just want to dictate and force their agendas on others. It's as simple as that. They've been allowed too much power & control. The Government is gonna blow all the Taxpayer cash anyway, so i see no reason why new ideas can't be tried. Why should Taxpayer money only be spent on Teacher Union/Democrat agendas? Other Citizens have the right to speak up and offer other ideas on Education. The Teacher Unions just hate the thought of that. They truly believe the Government should only fund their agendas. They stand against Freedom & Liberty. Shame on them.

 

[squeeze berry]

Teacher Unions just want to dictate and force their agendas on others. It's as simple as that. They've been allowed too much power & control. The Government is gonna blow all the Taxpayer cash anyway, so i see no reason why new ideas can't be tried. Why should Taxpayer money only be spent on Teacher Union/Democrat agendas? Other Citizens have the right to speak up and offer other ideas on Education. The Teacher Unions just hate the thought of that. They truly believe the Government should only fund their agendas. They stand against Freedom & Liberty. Shame on them.

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

 

[paulitician]

Teacher Unions just want to dictate and force their agendas on others. It's as simple as that. They've been allowed too much power & control. The Government is gonna blow all the Taxpayer cash anyway, so i see no reason why new ideas can't be tried. Why should Taxpayer money only be spent on Teacher Union/Democrat agendas? Other Citizens have the right to speak up and offer other ideas on Education. The Teacher Unions just hate the thought of that. They truly believe the Government should only fund their agendas. They stand against Freedom & Liberty. Shame on them.

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

Just about all forced policies that have destroyed our Public School System in the past 30yrs. So why should only their agendas be funded by Taxpayers? Why can't other Citizens have their agendas funded? It's not the Teacher Union/Democrat way, or the Highway. Who are they to dictate terms? I'm not even defending the School-Voucher Program so much. I just don't feel it's right for the Unions to be suing their fellow Citizens over this stuff. All Citizens have the right to dictate terms on American Education. No one individual group should be allowed to force their agendas on all Citizens. And that's been the cas with Teacher Unions for too many years. It's time for that to end. We need to fully embrace new ideas on Education.

 

[paulitician]

Teacher Unions just want to dictate and force their agendas on others. It's as simple as that. They've been allowed too much power & control. The Government is gonna blow all the Taxpayer cash anyway, so i see no reason why new ideas can't be tried. Why should Taxpayer money only be spent on Teacher Union/Democrat agendas? Other Citizens have the right to speak up and offer other ideas on Education. The Teacher Unions just hate the thought of that. They truly believe the Government should only fund their agendas. They stand against Freedom & Liberty. Shame on them.

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

Just about all of the forced policies that have destroyed our Public School System in the past 30yrs. So why should only their agendas be funded by Taxpayers? Why can't other Citizens have their agendas funded? It's not the Teacher Union/Democrat way, or the Highway. Who are they to dictate terms?

I'm not even defending the School-Voucher Program so much. I just don't feel it's right for the Unions to be suing their fellow Citizens over this stuff. All Citizens have the right to dictate terms on American Education. No one individual group should be allowed to force their agendas on all Citizens. And that's been the case with Teacher Unions for too many years. It's time for that to end. We need to fully embrace new ideas on Education.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Totally wrong. You obviously didn't read the article. A totally random process was used to select the students who received a voucher from the list of applicants. Test scores and graduation rates were compared only with the students who applied but were not selected. That procedure totally eliminates any selection bias.

They are still being sent to a school that gets to select its student body.
All the study proves is that public school students do better when sent to a private school, that fact is not in dispute.

Isnt that the issue? That's the point....you have discipline, no unions and people who give a shit, and parents are more involved and in some private schools, the parents HAVE to be involved.....which you cant do with a public school.

What? How are parents not allowed to be involved in a public school?

 

[paulitician]

Just hand em a Condom, and tell em to vote Democrat. How bout those wonderful Teacher Union/Democrat innovative ideas on Education? My God, they've made such a miserable catastrophe of our Public Schools. No one should be forced to fund their agendas anymore. Other ideas and methods will have to be tried. It is what it is.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Just hand em a Condom, and tell em to vote Democrat. How bout those wonderful Teacher Union/Democrat innovative ideas on Education? My God, they've made such a miserable catastrophe of our Public Schools. No one should be forced to fund their agendas anymore. Other ideas and methods will have to be tried. It is what it is.

And yet you can't name one idea or method.

Hmm.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Private for profit schools are less expensive, have less waste, busses would just be a part of the operating costs

I'll say it again.

Private schools are under no obligation to provide buses.

You want inner city kids to get sent to different schools, so I will ask again, how are you going to do this? You don't want to spend any more money in public schools, and in fact want to cut the money they're currently getting. In addition, private schools are not required to provide transportation.

So ... how?

Inner city… Out of city… The schools don't have to be out of the city, just privately run for profit. “Required”? Competition dictates the needs of a business in order to succeed. Is home depot "required to provide those nice shopping carts? It’s part of doing business. Liberals always think everything has to be required by the federal government in order for anything to get done

In other words, you want kids to be able to get out of a troubled school and get sent to a "better" school but you have absolutely no idea how that will happen other than some faceless entity that provides buses.

Solid plan.

 

[paulitician]

Just hand em a Condom, and tell em to vote Democrat. How bout those wonderful Teacher Union/Democrat innovative ideas on Education? My God, they've made such a miserable catastrophe of our Public Schools. No one should be forced to fund their agendas anymore. Other ideas and methods will have to be tried. It is what it is.

And yet you can't name one idea or method.

Hmm.

I'm willing to try new ideas. And so are most other common sense thinking Americans. You guys have failed the children. Time for change. Deal with it.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Just hand em a Condom, and tell em to vote Democrat. How bout those wonderful Teacher Union/Democrat innovative ideas on Education? My God, they've made such a miserable catastrophe of our Public Schools. No one should be forced to fund their agendas anymore. Other ideas and methods will have to be tried. It is what it is.

And yet you can't name one idea or method.

Hmm.

I'm willing to try new ideas. And so are most other common sense thinking Americans. You guys have failed the children. Time for change. Deal with it.

And I say again ...

You can't name one new idea or method.

You cry about wanting us to try new things, well, like what? What would you like to see public schools try that they haven't tried before?

 

[squeeze berry]

Teacher Unions just want to dictate and force their agendas on others. It's as simple as that. They've been allowed too much power & control. The Government is gonna blow all the Taxpayer cash anyway, so i see no reason why new ideas can't be tried. Why should Taxpayer money only be spent on Teacher Union/Democrat agendas? Other Citizens have the right to speak up and offer other ideas on Education. The Teacher Unions just hate the thought of that. They truly believe the Government should only fund their agendas. They stand against Freedom & Liberty. Shame on them.

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

Just about all of the forced policies that have destroyed our Public School System in the past 30yrs. So why should only their agendas be funded by Taxpayers? Why can't other Citizens have their agendas funded? It's not the Teacher Union/Democrat way, or the Highway. Who are they to dictate terms?

I'm not even defending the School-Voucher Program so much. I just don't feel it's right for the Unions to be suing their fellow Citizens over this stuff. All Citizens have the right to dictate terms on American Education. No one individual group should be allowed to force their agendas on all Citizens. And that's been the case with Teacher Unions for too many years. It's time for that to end. We need to fully embrace new ideas on Education.

you didn't answer the question.

Which policies were forced by teacher's unions?

 

[tinydancer]

My daughter was lost to the system because of the powerful union. No shit here. This union in particular owned at one point in time the major shares in the Toronto Maple Leafs. We are talking mega power house.

They became all about themselves, not about teaching and sure as hell not about being teachers. T realized that after all those years, she had signed on to union life not a teachers life.

 

[tinydancer]

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

Just about all of the forced policies that have destroyed our Public School System in the past 30yrs. So why should only their agendas be funded by Taxpayers? Why can't other Citizens have their agendas funded? It's not the Teacher Union/Democrat way, or the Highway. Who are they to dictate terms?

I'm not even defending the School-Voucher Program so much. I just don't feel it's right for the Unions to be suing their fellow Citizens over this stuff. All Citizens have the right to dictate terms on American Education. No one individual group should be allowed to force their agendas on all Citizens. And that's been the case with Teacher Unions for too many years. It's time for that to end. We need to fully embrace new ideas on Education.

you didn't answer the question.

Which policies were forced by teacher's unions?

This is why I know you are not a teacher. You are asking the most impossible question. ETA: or you are a horrid one

How can anyone answer?

 

[tinydancer]

And yet you can't name one idea or method.

Hmm.

I'm willing to try new ideas. And so are most other common sense thinking Americans. You guys have failed the children. Time for change. Deal with it.

And I say again ...

You can't name one new idea or method.

You cry about wanting us to try new things, well, like what? What would you like to see public schools try that they haven't tried before?

Skip condoms and teach children how to use a calculator so they can balance a check book.

hey hey hey....

Want to try to prevent unwanted babies

Take male student

Show him how much he's going to have to pay for the rest of his life for getting his rocks off just one night in high school....

 

[DontBeStupid]

Just about all of the forced policies that have destroyed our Public School System in the past 30yrs. So why should only their agendas be funded by Taxpayers? Why can't other Citizens have their agendas funded? It's not the Teacher Union/Democrat way, or the Highway. Who are they to dictate terms?

I'm not even defending the School-Voucher Program so much. I just don't feel it's right for the Unions to be suing their fellow Citizens over this stuff. All Citizens have the right to dictate terms on American Education. No one individual group should be allowed to force their agendas on all Citizens. And that's been the case with Teacher Unions for too many years. It's time for that to end. We need to fully embrace new ideas on Education.

you didn't answer the question.

Which policies were forced by teacher's unions?

This is why I know you are not a teacher. You are asking the most impossible question. ETA: or you are a horrid one

How can anyone answer?

Simple. Someone could say "Policy X was forced by a teachers' union and here's how it's bad for students."

 

[Full-Auto]

Wow. You actually wrote that.

I guess its idiotic attitudes like that which result in private "schools" where kids are just sat in front of TV's all day long at taxpayer expense. The students become mere commodities to be profited off of, like hamburgers or used cars, and public dollars are turned into private profits.

Its a conservative dream.

Then you can demonstrate that bit of strawman information with an actual story?

“Smaller, less prestigious” and often struggling religious schools are more likely to have spots open for voucher students. The school willing to accept the most voucher students — 314 — is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.”

Voucher Accountability: From Bad to Worse | Louisiana Progress

I appreciate the article, thank you......................

Now what I wanted was the story behind the straw... That isnt to difficult is it?

At worst case, private schools do as well as public schools, so what is your problem?

Why do you insist on mediocrity?