Teachers' Union To Sue Private Schools Over Voucher Program...

[DontBeStupid]

Pauli, this is why people call you a partisan hack. You spend this whole thread crying and trying to blame liberals or democrats or the teachers unions, but when you're asked a simple, direct question, you run and hide.

You have no desire to see schools perform better or help students better. All you care about is blaming the Left, in any way you can, for the entirety of the problem.

You're a cowardly hack.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Just for clarity, which I know is not relevant to most conservatives on this forum but I'll post it anyway,

this is what the Jindal/Louisiana voucher program looks like:

Jindal Vouchers’ Price Tag « The Daily Kingfish

OK

so you give vouchers to those students that are from schools graded a C, D, or F.

Fine.....

Are the private schoos required to accept the student?

Remember, this student is from a school that is failing or not top notch. The student could be part of the reason the school is failing.

One more component is, these vouchers only go to low income students. Ironically, the more you look at it, the more you realize that what this really is is a taxpayer funded social program for the poor,

that conservatives here are reflexively supporting because it has the word 'voucher' attached to it, and they've been programmed to say yes!! every time they hear the word 'voucher' and 'school' in the same sentence.

Maybe some of them will explain why.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Just for clarity, which I know is not relevant to most conservatives on this forum but I'll post it anyway,

this is what the Jindal/Louisiana voucher program looks like:

Jindal Vouchers’ Price Tag « The Daily Kingfish

OK

so you give vouchers to those students that are from schools graded a C, D, or F.

Fine.....

Are the private schoos required to accept the student?

Remember, this student is from a school that is failing or not top notch. The student could be part of the reason the school is failing.

One more component is, these vouchers only go to low income students. Ironically, the more you look at it, the more you realize that what this really is is a taxpayer funded social program for the poor,

that conservatives here are reflexively supporting because it has the word 'voucher' attached to it, and they've been programmed to say yes!! every time they hear the word 'voucher' and 'school' in the same sentence.

Maybe some of them will explain why.

Make up your feeble mind, why don't you? At one juncture, y'all bitch, piss, whine, moan, and berate conservatives for their lack of compassion for your "poor" people, but when they come out in support of a program that effectively helps the "poor" to better themselves, all you can do is bitch, piss, whine, moan, and berate them. WTF! One gets the feeling that conservatives are damned if the do, damned if they don't.

 

[NYcarbineer]

OK

so you give vouchers to those students that are from schools graded a C, D, or F.

Fine.....

Are the private schoos required to accept the student?

Remember, this student is from a school that is failing or not top notch. The student could be part of the reason the school is failing.

One more component is, these vouchers only go to low income students. Ironically, the more you look at it, the more you realize that what this really is is a taxpayer funded social program for the poor,

that conservatives here are reflexively supporting because it has the word 'voucher' attached to it, and they've been programmed to say yes!! every time they hear the word 'voucher' and 'school' in the same sentence.

Maybe some of them will explain why.

Make up your feeble mind, why don't you? At one juncture, y'all bitch, piss, whine, moan, and berate conservatives for their lack of compassion for your "poor" people, but when they come out in support of a program that effectively helps the "poor" to better themselves, all you can do is bitch, piss, whine, moan, and berate them. WTF! One gets the feeling that conservatives are damned if the do, damned if they don't.

Did I miss where you berated Paulitician, the consummate small-government guy, for now supporting a big government social program?

 

[bripat9643]

In other words, you want kids to be able to get out of a troubled school and get sent to a "better" school but you have absolutely no idea how that will happen other than some faceless entity that provides buses.

Solid plan.

On the other hand, you want to keep kids trapped in troubled schools.

What a humanitarian!

 

[bripat9643]

I'm willing to try new ideas. And so are most other common sense thinking Americans. You guys have failed the children. Time for change. Deal with it.

And I say again ...

You can't name one new idea or method.

You cry about wanting us to try new things, well, like what? What would you like to see public schools try that they haven't tried before?

Been there. Done that. Try reading the thread, moron.

 

[bripat9643]

They said they were challenging the constitutionality of giving public funds to Catholic schools.

Funny how a constitutional challenge suddenly becomes a manifestation of Satan to the Right when they don't happen to like its content;

I don't recall anyone on the conservative side demonizing those who challenged the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act.

The teacher's union is challenging a program that the voters want. The ACA is a program the voters want. In the former case, the purpose of the challenge is to eliminate voter choice. In the later, it's to give the voters a choice. In both case the liberal position is to increase the power of government employees and eliminate the choices available to the voters.

 

[bripat9643]

Your "study" was nothing more than propaganda conducted by government hacks. They don't explain how they eliminated factors such as socioeconomic advantages. They plainly admit that private schools out perform government schools by a wide margin. Their claims are totally unsupported by their data.

Your article even admits the claims made by the authors of the study are "problematic."

The OECD study, like many applying SES factors, is inclined to explain away the sharp variations in actual results. The report’s contention that public schools with comparable student populations offer the same advantages is problematic because it’s difficult for parents to determine which public schools are better than others. While private schools and socially advantaged public schools do benefit the students attending them, the OECD study claims that private schools, perhaps because of their smaller numbers, do not “raise the level of the school system as a whole.”

The sweeping conclusions reached by the OECD report authors will certainly be challenged by great numbers of students, parents, and staff. Why? Because their appraisal will be based upon more than SES benchmarked comparative test results, and they are likely far more familiar with the true advantages– for better or worse — of a private school education.

cam we have a link to that study please?

Right after you provide a link to the study that says private schools perform better because they only accept the smart kids.

Private Schools vs. Public Schools: Why Do Private School Students Achieve Better Results? « Educhatter's Blog

"In the August 2011 study reported in PISA in Focus, private school students at 14-years-of-age were compared with the much larger public school cohort using results from the 2009 Program of International Standards and Assessment (PISA). Based upon straight results, private school students in 36 OECD countries, including Canada, scored 30 points higher in PISA reading scores, essentially equivalent to three-quarters of a year’s worth of formal schooling. The private school performance edge, according to the OECD researchers, was attributable to three key factors: the competitive school environment, greater teacher autonomy in deciding curriculum and allocating resources, and the ability to attract higher performing socially-advantaged students. "

 

[bripat9643]

4. Fail students who have earned it.

5. Boot out hooligans

it's illegal to boot out students.
Education in the US is free and cumpulsory in most states until age 18. If they get booted out they go to a taxpayer funded alternative school that is Veeeery expensive.

If a student would get booted out of a private school, where do you think they go? I have seen that happen BTW.

Were you aware that intellectually disabled and some autistic students are pemitted to stay in school until age 22?

Do private schools deal with that?

Do private schools accept anyone on the far left side of the bell curve?

First you claim it's illegal to boot out students. Then you admit that some schools do it.

In Milwaukee, students that get booted out of public school get sent to special private schools, so that's hardly an argument against a voucher program.

 

[bripat9643]

Teacher Unions just want to dictate and force their agendas on others. It's as simple as that. They've been allowed too much power & control. The Government is gonna blow all the Taxpayer cash anyway, so i see no reason why new ideas can't be tried. Why should Taxpayer money only be spent on Teacher Union/Democrat agendas? Other Citizens have the right to speak up and offer other ideas on Education. The Teacher Unions just hate the thought of that. They truly believe the Government should only fund their agendas. They stand against Freedom & Liberty. Shame on them.

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

For starters:

1. Tenure: They can't be fired.
2. No merit pay
3. Numerous crackpot teaching ideas like "critical thinking," "values clarification" and the "look-say" method of learning to read.

 

[Trajan]

cam we have a link to that study please?

Right after you provide a link to the study that says private schools perform better because they only accept the smart kids.

Private Schools vs. Public Schools: Why Do Private School Students Achieve Better Results? « Educhatter's Blog

"In the August 2011 study reported in PISA in Focus, private school students at 14-years-of-age were compared with the much larger public school cohort using results from the 2009 Program of International Standards and Assessment (PISA). Based upon straight results, private school students in 36 OECD countries, including Canada, scored 30 points higher in PISA reading scores, essentially equivalent to three-quarters of a year’s worth of formal schooling. The private school performance edge, according to the OECD researchers, was attributable to three key factors: the competitive school environment, greater teacher autonomy in deciding curriculum and allocating resources, and the ability to attract higher performing socially-advantaged students. "

and the ability to attract higher performing socially-advantaged students. "

a) can you post the link to the data wherein this holds for ts significant portion of the enrolled charter/voucher students in the US.

b) now for context; to an extent thats true HERE, IN THAT, the students who benefit most and are seen as the greatest benefactors and supply of those students Comparatively come from homes in the inner city where parents are active in their children schooling .....see my point?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Teacher Unions just want to dictate and force their agendas on others. It's as simple as that. They've been allowed too much power & control. The Government is gonna blow all the Taxpayer cash anyway, so i see no reason why new ideas can't be tried. Why should Taxpayer money only be spent on Teacher Union/Democrat agendas? Other Citizens have the right to speak up and offer other ideas on Education. The Teacher Unions just hate the thought of that. They truly believe the Government should only fund their agendas. They stand against Freedom & Liberty. Shame on them.

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

For starters:

1. Tenure: They can't be fired.
2. No merit pay
3. Numerous crackpot teaching ideas like "critical thinking," "values clarification" and the "look-say" method of learning to read.

1. They can be fired.
2. Obama proposed merit pay and the GOP is against it.
3. Teaching "critical thinking" is "crackpot teaching"?? Wow! You're an idiot!

 

[Full-Auto]

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

For starters:

1. Tenure: They can't be fired.
2. No merit pay
3. Numerous crackpot teaching ideas like "critical thinking," "values clarification" and the "look-say" method of learning to read.

1. They can be fired.
2. Obama proposed merit pay and the GOP is against it.
3. Teaching "critical thinking" is "crackpot teaching"?? Wow! You're an idiot!

That bogus critical thinking theory was laughed off the board.

Revive it, tell us all about the THEORY.....................

WE NEED ANOTHER LAUGH..........

 

[Ariux]

1. They can be fired.
2. Obama proposed merit pay and the GOP is against it.
3. Teaching "critical thinking" is "crackpot teaching"?? Wow! You're an idiot!

Hey BeSoStupid:

1) It's too hard to fire bad teachers. There are some astounding examples of this.
2) I'm against merit pay, because ultimately it will be given out unfairly.
3) The liberal's idea of "critical thinking" is blind acceptance of state propaganda.

 

[DontBeStupid]

For starters:

1. Tenure: They can't be fired.
2. No merit pay
3. Numerous crackpot teaching ideas like "critical thinking," "values clarification" and the "look-say" method of learning to read.

1. They can be fired.
2. Obama proposed merit pay and the GOP is against it.
3. Teaching "critical thinking" is "crackpot teaching"?? Wow! You're an idiot!

That bogus critical thinking theory was laughed off the board.

Revive it, tell us all about the THEORY.....................

WE NEED ANOTHER LAUGH..........

Critical thinking is about teaching a kid to think and decide for himself. Meaning, you teach kids it's okay reject those Socialist/Liberal ideas and embrace the NeoConservative movement, if they think that movement is better.

I can see why you'd be against it.

 

[squeeze berry]

5. Boot out hooligans

it's illegal to boot out students.
Education in the US is free and cumpulsory in most states until age 18. If they get booted out they go to a taxpayer funded alternative school that is Veeeery expensive.

If a student would get booted out of a private school, where do you think they go? I have seen that happen BTW.

Were you aware that intellectually disabled and some autistic students are pemitted to stay in school until age 22?

Do private schools deal with that?

Do private schools accept anyone on the far left side of the bell curve?

First you claim it's illegal to boot out students. Then you admit that some schools do it.

In Milwaukee, students that get booted out of public school get sent to special private schools, so that's hardly an argument against a voucher program.

all at taxpayer expense

 

[Full-Auto]

1. They can be fired.
2. Obama proposed merit pay and the GOP is against it.
3. Teaching "critical thinking" is "crackpot teaching"?? Wow! You're an idiot!

That bogus critical thinking theory was laughed off the board.

Revive it, tell us all about the THEORY.....................

WE NEED ANOTHER LAUGH..........

Critical thinking is about teaching a kid to think and decide for himself. Meaning, you teach kids it's okay reject those Socialist/Liberal ideas and embrace the NeoConservative movement, if they think that movement is better.

I can see why you'd be against it.

Jesus Christ man get your talking points straight............

Post the story about critical thinking and see how off you have gone from the reservation.

How can I argue with you when you are clueless?

 

[DontBeStupid]

That bogus critical thinking theory was laughed off the board.

Revive it, tell us all about the THEORY.....................

WE NEED ANOTHER LAUGH..........

Critical thinking is about teaching a kid to think and decide for himself. Meaning, you teach kids it's okay reject those Socialist/Liberal ideas and embrace the NeoConservative movement, if they think that movement is better.

I can see why you'd be against it.

Jesus Christ man get your talking points straight............

Post the story about critical thinking and see how off you have gone from the reservation.

How can I argue with you when you are clueless?

Just do what I do when talking with you.

Use small words and articulate your point.

 

[squeeze berry]

Teacher Unions just want to dictate and force their agendas on others. It's as simple as that. They've been allowed too much power & control. The Government is gonna blow all the Taxpayer cash anyway, so i see no reason why new ideas can't be tried. Why should Taxpayer money only be spent on Teacher Union/Democrat agendas? Other Citizens have the right to speak up and offer other ideas on Education. The Teacher Unions just hate the thought of that. They truly believe the Government should only fund their agendas. They stand against Freedom & Liberty. Shame on them.

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

For starters:

1. Tenure: They can't be fired.
2. No merit pay
3. Numerous crackpot teaching ideas like "critical thinking," "values clarification" and the "look-say" method of learning to read.

1. I can be fired if I have a bad eval and don't show improvement in 5 months

2. I haven't gotten a raise of any kind in 3 years, and there are issues with how to implement merit pay.

3. the union has never told me I can't teach phonics

 

[Trajan]

which agenda has any teacher's union FORCED on the taxpayer

For starters:

1. Tenure: They can't be fired.
2. No merit pay
3. Numerous crackpot teaching ideas like "critical thinking," "values clarification" and the "look-say" method of learning to read.

1. They can be fired.
2. Obama proposed merit pay and the GOP is against it.
3. Teaching "critical thinking" is "crackpot teaching"?? Wow! You're an idiot!

1. They can be fired. and I can walk to NYC if I want too but, its a very very very long walk and would cost me more than just flying....see how that works?


2. Obama proposed merit pay and the GOP is against it. can you link to the particulars of that please?