Teachers' Union To Sue Private Schools Over Voucher Program...

[bripat9643]

Vouchers are just a conservative handout program. You take my tax dollars, hand them over to some parents who want to send their kids to a fundie Christian school to learn there's no such thing as evolution.

No.

So public schools are a liberal handout? Is that what you're trying to say?

I'm saying conservatives aren't for less government spending, they're for less spending for the other guy, so there's more for them.

Which voucher proposal says only conservatives are eligible to receive one?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Not true. Even when you control for the quality of the students, private schools do a better job. Those regulations are part the reason government schools suck. When you have government schools, you have regulations. That's never going to change. That's just one more reason to support vouchers.

I'd like a link to that study as well. I'm curious as to how they control for the quality of students.

School Vouchers in DC Produce Gains in Both Test Scores and Graduation Rates : Education Next

School Vouchers in DC Produce Gains in Both Test Scores and Graduation Rates

I thought you had a study that showed private schools had better results than public schools with the same set of students. Obviously the set of students attending private schools through vouchers are prone to the most of the same selection biases as the rest of the private school student body. You exclude the set of students with uninvolved parents from the start, and the private schools still get to decide which of their applicants to accept.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Loolk All the crap on this on the vouchers is a joke. They work and parents know it and want it...Even in DC they love it....public schools suck and have no accountability. MAke schools compete just like universities.....if you suck....buh bye.....and if you dont...cha ching!!!!!Even Obama is like oh shit we fucked this up.....

Why do liberals oppose voucher,? well because the teachers unions tell them to (and they hurt the unions not the students....and unions do not care about students)
And if black folk get educated, they MIGHT be able to make decisions without realying on civil rights groups telling them what to do....


Obama Administration Softens Position On D.C. Voucher Program

 

[bripat9643]

The first inevitable consequence of a widespread voucher program would be the cost of private school going up.

Really? Do you think cars would be cheaper if the government manufactured them?

I know that if every parent had an extra couple thousand dollars to spend on private school but they couldn't spend it on anything else that the laws of supply and demand would dictate that prices could go up in response to higher demand and more ability to pay.

It's really quite simple, although not in the way that you're simple.

Your theory depends on the supply of private schools being fixed. However, we know that not to be the case. Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership. The supply will expand to meet the demand.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership.

Wow. You actually wrote that.

I guess its idiotic attitudes like that which result in private "schools" where kids are just sat in front of TV's all day long at taxpayer expense. The students become mere commodities to be profited off of, like hamburgers or used cars, and public dollars are turned into private profits.

Its a conservative dream.

 

[Full-Auto]

Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership.

Wow. You actually wrote that.

I guess its idiotic attitudes like that which result in private "schools" where kids are just sat in front of TV's all day long at taxpayer expense. The students become mere commodities to be profited off of, like hamburgers or used cars, and public dollars are turned into private profits.

Its a conservative dream.

Then you can demonstrate that bit of strawman information with an actual story?

 

[bripat9643]

I thought you had a study that showed private schools had better results than public schools with the same set of students. Obviously the set of students attending private schools through vouchers are prone to the most of the same selection biases as the rest of the private school student body. You exclude the set of students with uninvolved parents from the start, and the private schools still get to decide which of their applicants to accept.

Totally wrong. You obviously didn't read the article. A totally random process was used to select the students who received a voucher from the list of applicants. Test scores and graduation rates were compared only with the students who applied but were not selected. That procedure totally eliminates any selection bias.

 

[bripat9643]

Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership.

Wow. You actually wrote that.

I guess its idiotic attitudes like that which result in private "schools" where kids are just sat in front of TV's all day long at taxpayer expense. The students become mere commodities to be profited off of, like hamburgers or used cars, and public dollars are turned into private profits.

Its a conservative dream.

Except for the fact that private schools perform better than government schools. Do you really believe that parents care so little about their children that they don't care if their child gets a proper education? The reason they send their kids to private schools is precisely because they are concerned about their kids getting a proper education. The any voucher goons even admit this when they claim private schools perform better because parents are more involved with their child's education.

All the arguments against vouchers aren't just wrong, they are positively stupid.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I thought you had a study that showed private schools had better results than public schools with the same set of students. Obviously the set of students attending private schools through vouchers are prone to the most of the same selection biases as the rest of the private school student body. You exclude the set of students with uninvolved parents from the start, and the private schools still get to decide which of their applicants to accept.

Totally wrong. You obviously didn't read the article. A totally random process was used to select the students who received a voucher from the list of applicants. Test scores and graduation rates were compared only with the students who applied but were not selected. That procedure totally eliminates any selection bias.

They are still being sent to a school that gets to select its student body.
All the study proves is that public school students do better when sent to a private school, that fact is not in dispute.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I thought you had a study that showed private schools had better results than public schools with the same set of students. Obviously the set of students attending private schools through vouchers are prone to the most of the same selection biases as the rest of the private school student body. You exclude the set of students with uninvolved parents from the start, and the private schools still get to decide which of their applicants to accept.

Totally wrong. You obviously didn't read the article. A totally random process was used to select the students who received a voucher from the list of applicants. Test scores and graduation rates were compared only with the students who applied but were not selected. That procedure totally eliminates any selection bias.

They are still being sent to a school that gets to select its student body.
All the study proves is that public school students do better when sent to a private school, that fact is not in dispute.

Isnt that the issue? That's the point....you have discipline, no unions and people who give a shit, and parents are more involved and in some private schools, the parents HAVE to be involved.....which you cant do with a public school.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership.

Wow. You actually wrote that.

I guess its idiotic attitudes like that which result in private "schools" where kids are just sat in front of TV's all day long at taxpayer expense. The students become mere commodities to be profited off of, like hamburgers or used cars, and public dollars are turned into private profits.

Its a conservative dream.

Then you can demonstrate that bit of strawman information with an actual story?

“Smaller, less prestigious” and often struggling religious schools are more likely to have spots open for voucher students. The school willing to accept the most voucher students — 314 — is New Living Word in Ruston, which has a top-ranked basketball team but no library. Students spend most of the day watching TVs in bare-bones classrooms. Each lesson consists of an instructional DVD that intersperses Biblical verses with subjects such chemistry or composition.”

Voucher Accountability: From Bad to Worse | Louisiana Progress

 

[bripat9643]

I thought you had a study that showed private schools had better results than public schools with the same set of students. Obviously the set of students attending private schools through vouchers are prone to the most of the same selection biases as the rest of the private school student body. You exclude the set of students with uninvolved parents from the start, and the private schools still get to decide which of their applicants to accept.

Totally wrong. You obviously didn't read the article. A totally random process was used to select the students who received a voucher from the list of applicants. Test scores and graduation rates were compared only with the students who applied but were not selected. That procedure totally eliminates any selection bias.

They are still being sent to a school that gets to select its student body.

All the students who received vouchers were able to use them, so that proves your claim is complete bullshit.

All the study proves is that public school students do better when sent to a private school, that fact is not in dispute.

If that's not in dispute, then what is? That's the reason people support vouchers.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership.

Wow. You actually wrote that.

I guess its idiotic attitudes like that which result in private "schools" where kids are just sat in front of TV's all day long at taxpayer expense. The students become mere commodities to be profited off of, like hamburgers or used cars, and public dollars are turned into private profits.

Its a conservative dream.

Except for the fact that private schools perform better than government schools.

They get to select their student body. We've been through this. And the statement isn't even generally true. If you select a public and private school at random usually the private is better but not always. The Louisiana School for Math Science & The Arts is a much better school than most private high schools. Of course, it gets to select its student body!

Do you really believe that parents care so little about their children that they don't care if their child gets a proper education? The reason they send their kids to private schools is precisely because they are concerned about their kids getting a proper education. The any voucher goons even admit this when they claim private schools perform better because parents are more involved with their child's education.

All the arguments against vouchers aren't just wrong, they are positively stupid.

I'm failing to see what in your argument above supports your absurd assertion that:
"Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership."

 

[bripat9643]

They are still being sent to a school that gets to select its student body.
All the study proves is that public school students do better when sent to a private school, that fact is not in dispute.

Isnt that the issue? That's the point....you have discipline, no unions and people who give a shit, and parents are more involved and in some private schools, the parents HAVE to be involved.....which you cant do with a public school.

It's hard to believe Poo Poo admitted that.

 

[bripat9643]

Except for the fact that private schools perform better than government schools.

They get to select their student body.

I already proved that claim to be wrong.

We've been through this. And the statement isn't even generally true. If you select a public and private school at random usually the private is better but not always. The Louisiana School for Math Science & The Arts is a much better school than most private high schools.

That doesn't support your case. If the private schools perform better on average than public schools, it doesn't follow that all private schools are better than all public schools. You need to take a course in logic.

Do you really believe that parents care so little about their children that they don't care if their child gets a proper education? The reason they send their kids to private schools is precisely because they are concerned about their kids getting a proper education. The any voucher goons even admit this when they claim private schools perform better because parents are more involved with their child's education.

All the arguments against vouchers aren't just wrong, they are positively stupid.

I'm failing to see what in your argument above supports your absurd assertion that: "Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership."

I didn't attempt to prove it. However, how difficult can it be to hire a bunch of teachers and start a school? They should be in abundant supply once parents receive a voucher and start pulling their kids out of public schools.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Totally wrong. You obviously didn't read the article. A totally random process was used to select the students who received a voucher from the list of applicants. Test scores and graduation rates were compared only with the students who applied but were not selected. That procedure totally eliminates any selection bias.

They are still being sent to a school that gets to select its student body.

All the students who received vouchers were able to use them, so that proves your claim is complete bullshit.

The private schools didn't have to accept a student who didn't apply for a voucher, did they? Did the private schools get to select the remainder of their non-voucher student body?

All the study proves is that public school students do better when sent to a private school, that fact is not in dispute.

If that's not in dispute, then what is? That's the reason people support vouchers.

What is in dispute is the idea that vouchers are a solution for a failing public school system. Vouchers only allow a sub-set of students to attend private schools. In Louisiana that number is about 6,000 out of over 700,000 students. In this case - the vouchers don't actually fix the system - they just create a handful of poster children so that the voucher program can be considered good and places like New Living World profit while the vast masses of public school students are left with even worse public schools to attend.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Except for the fact that private schools perform better than government schools.

They get to select their student body.

I already proved that claim to be wrong.

You only proved that all voucher students were accepted. They still get to select the remainder of their student body. Not to mention obviously they didn't accept any public school students that did not apply for a voucher. So your taking voucher applicants (one selection bias) and placing them in an environment where the remainder of the student body is hand picked from a list of applicants.

That doesn't support your case. If the private schools perform better on average than public schools, it doesn't follow that all private schools are better than all public schools. You need to take a course in logic.

Well here's an idea - let's look at the better performing public schools and try to figure out what makes them better than the worst ones.

I'm failing to see what in your argument above supports your absurd assertion that: "Starting a private school is no more difficult than opening a Wendy's restaurant or a used car dealership."

I didn't attempt to prove it. However, how difficult can it be to hire a bunch of teachers and start a school? They should be in abundant supply once parents receive a voucher and start pulling their kids out of public schools.

I dunno, I guess teachers are just like hamburger flippers and a fast food menu is kinda like a school curriculum. Seriously? Why hire any teachers, lets just sit them down in front of TVs,


I've attened both public and private schools in my life. The teachers at my private school were great, but if you had swapped student bodies on them and given them an entire student body from a public school - most of them would have failed miserably. Why do you think private school teachers get paid less on average? Its because their job isn't as hard! And its not because of the union in my state - Louisiana has no deal with the teacher's union.

 

[bripat9643]

They are still being sent to a school that gets to select its student body.

All the students who received vouchers were able to use them, so that proves your claim is complete bullshit.

The private schools didn't have to accept a student who didn't apply for a voucher, did they? Did the private schools get to select the remainder of their non-voucher student body?

I'll repeat it for you: "All the students who received vouchers were able to use them"

All the study proves is that public school students do better when sent to a private school, that fact is not in dispute.

If that's not in dispute, then what is? That's the reason people support vouchers.

What is in dispute is the idea that vouchers are a solution for a failing public school system. Vouchers only allow a sub-set of students to attend private schools. In Louisiana that number is about 6,000 out of over 700,000 students. In this case - the vouchers don't actually fix the system - they just create a handful of poster children so that the voucher program can be considered good and places like New Living World profit while the vast masses of public school students are left with even worse public schools to attend.

Up to now vouchers have been available to a subset of students only because those are the only voucher programs that the teachers' unions haven't been able to stop. the solution is simple: make vouchers available to every child.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

All the students who received vouchers were able to use them, so that proves your claim is complete bullshit.

The private schools didn't have to accept a student who didn't apply for a voucher, did they? Did the private schools get to select the remainder of their non-voucher student body?

I'll repeat it for you: "All the students who received vouchers were able to use them"

I read and comprehended the first time you said it and I'm fully aware that no bias exists as a result of a private school being allowed to reject a voucher applicant.

Now do you comprehend the following question?

Did the private schools get to select the remainder of their non-voucher student body?

If so, answer it. A yes/no answer will suffice. If not - get out a dictionary and I'll work with you.

Up to now vouchers have been available to a subset of students only because those are the only voucher programs that the teachers' unions haven't been able to stop. the solution is simple: make vouchers available to every child.

Oh - right - its the UNIONS fault.

Sorry, but less than 20% of Louisiana's teachers are in the union.

Unions | Teachers Union Facts

 

[NYcarbineer]

They said they were challenging the constitutionality of giving public funds to Catholic schools.

Funny how a constitutional challenge suddenly becomes a manifestation of Satan to the Right when they don't happen to like its content;

I don't recall anyone on the conservative side demonizing those who challenged the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act.