Teachers' Union To Sue Private Schools Over Voucher Program...

[bripat9643]

No more Public Unions. Most Americans are sick of their jackbooted intimidation tactics. Their time has passed.

It’s telling a conservative would seek to deny Americans their First Amendment right to assemble, not surprising, but telling. That they are government employees is irrelevant, one does not forfeit his civil liberties as a consequence of the condition of his employment.

They can "assemble" all they like, but public schools aren't required to sign a contract with them.

 

[bripat9643]

As a public school teacher, I am not crazy about vouchers and charter schools because they don't have to play by the same rules as the local public schools. But I also believe that children in high crime areas deserve better. If a voucher will give them the opportunity to go to a safer school, I can't see how any compassionate person could say that's a bad thing.

Until states get serious about getting criminals out of these classrooms, parents should have a choice.

"They don't have to play by the same rules" is an argument in favor of vouchers, because those rules are part of what's wrong with the public schools. The reason you disagree is because you see that unfair to yourself, a public school teacher.

Liberal teachers Unions are a big reason why we can't get the criminals out of these classrooms. Add to that Obama pressuring schools not to punish Afro students, which is an effort to make a bad situation worse.

In other words, public school teachers like Chanel are the problem.

 

[bripat9643]

Name one, specific idea that a private school could do that a public school could not.

Where's the completion? Where's the accountability for the failure? Schools could be run by private companies and do a much better job. Private companies run them and they can be overseen by local elected entities.

Private companies would do what's profitable, not necessarily what's right.

So again, what is the profit going to be to teach the Special Ed Students? Or taking the chronic displinary problems?

When a voucher initiative was on the ballot in Milwaukee, the same argument was used. However, it turned out that the Milwaukee public school system took problem children out of the public schools and paid their tuition at private schools that were designed to handle such children.

Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[bripat9643]

no Ariux, it's not the unions blocking removing criminals and disruptive students from the classroom. It's the laws we live with.

We don't have to live with these stupid laws with a voucher system. You just gave an argument to support vouchers.

 

[bripat9643]

There is nothing wrong with getting kids out of their neighborhood when they attend school. It would actually be a good thing

Ok. I'll bite.

How?

All you libturds supported forced busing for decades, and that is exactly what it did. Now why all the whining all of a sudden?

 

[thanatos144]

"Most economists agree that a school voucher system would improve our educational system" is a flat falsehood, because you can't offer any credible evidence for such a silly statement.

There's a mountain of evidence, you fucking dimwit. Private schools consistently outperform government schools.

they should.

Private schools have fewer regulations and better material to work with.

Yet they are not better funded.......Thats a major point.

 

[bripat9643]

Better yet, simply adopt a voucher plan and you can escape all the problems of the public schools.

or we can eliminate all public schools and school taxes and make the parents pay out of pocket for their child's education

I"m totally on board with that idea.

 

[bripat9643]

Thanks, but you might want to take a second look there. The ruling was not that the vouchers were constitutional, but that the taxpayers suing did not have standing to sue.

Then how do the teachers unions have standing to sue?

When the voucher program is found unconstitutional, any taxpayer money that was sent to a private school would need to be immediately returned, as it legally belongs in the public school system. This would give teachers standing to sue a private school, as that private school is in possession of the teachers' money.

It's not their money, so they still don't have standing to sue. If they did have grounds to sue, then they could sue the state government if it ever cut school spending. That idea is obviously absurd.

 

[bripat9643]

Name one, specific idea that a private school could do that a public school could not.

1. Pay teachers according to merit.
   
2. Fire teachers who don't perform.
   
3. Groups kids according to ability rather than according to age.

4. Fail students who have earned it.

5. Boot out hooligans

 

[bripat9643]

The first inevitable consequence of a widespread voucher program would be the cost of private school going up.

Really? Do you think cars would be cheaper if the government manufactured them?

 

[thanatos144]

The first inevitable consequence of a widespread voucher program would be the cost of private school going up.

Really? Do you think cars would be cheaper if the government manufactured them?

He thinks the government can do all things.

 

[Erand7899]

I believe that an entire state...Louisianna or Texas, perhaps...should shift their educational program to adopt ALL the ideas presented by the Right wing....no unions, vouchers, getting rid of evolution education, prayer in school, etc. and try it out for at least one school generation....13 years (K-12)...and see how those kids compete as adults.

I'm sure the Right wing and those Red states would look forward to such a project.

That's what the teacher's unions have been trying so hard to prevent for the last 30 years because they know what the results will be.

BTW, not all right wingers want prayer in schools or teaching creationism. However, under a voucher program, those that want it can get it, and those that don't want it don't have to get it.

I think I know what the results will be...and it won't be pretty for those states. But we know that the Right much prefers watching and whining than actually taking the bull by the horns.

Apparently, you don't know what the results would be. Your suggestion was the norm until the 1950s, and at that time the United States had the most literate population in the world. Parents were no different than parents today, and the children were the same. The only things that have changed are the Administrators, teachers, and the progressive bullshit that has been forced into the schools.

The best solution to any failure of a system, is to return to the norm when the system was working well, and make necessary changes very carefully to ensure that those changes are actually improvements.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The first inevitable consequence of a widespread voucher program would be the cost of private school going up.

Really? Do you think cars would be cheaper if the government manufactured them?

I know that if every parent had an extra couple thousand dollars to spend on private school but they couldn't spend it on anything else that the laws of supply and demand would dictate that prices could go up in response to higher demand and more ability to pay.

It's really quite simple, although not in the way that you're simple.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You just proved you're a bootlicking Nazi teacher's union toady.

Vouchers are just a conservative handout program. You take my tax dollars, hand them over to some parents who want to send their kids to a fundie Christian school to learn there's no such thing as evolution.

No.

So public schools are a liberal handout? Is that what you're trying to say?

I'm saying conservatives aren't for less government spending, they're for less spending for the other guy, so there's more for them.

 

[Ariux]

Apparently, you don't know what the results would be. Your suggestion was the norm until the 1950s, and at that time the United States had the most literate population in the world. Parents were no different than parents today, and the children were the same. The only things that have changed are the Administrators, teachers, and the progressive bullshit that has been forced into the schools.

The best solution to any failure of a system, is to return to the norm when the system was working well, and make necessary changes very carefully to ensure that those changes are actually improvements.

No silly, the parents and children are not the same. The majority of students are now genetically and culturally inferior to the majority of the students in the 1950s. Also, there has been a huge loss of local control of public schools since the 1950, relating to education taking a backseat to indoctrination.

Also, school funding is tremendously higher now and there's a world of difference in technology.

 

[paulitician]

The Teacher Unions should have never been allowed so much power to dictate all terms on Education matters.

They don't, coward.

Other Citizens have ideas on Education, and should be heard as well.

Why? Honestly, man up and tell us why. Why should someone who has never studied child behavior and development, has never taught a day in his life and doesn't even have kids in the school system, why should we listen to his ideas and give him equal footing as the person who has studied and dedicated their life to teaching?

Yes i know, you must force your agenda on everyone. You just can't help yourself. Freedom & Liberty truly terrifies you. Shame on you and the Teacher Unions. In a free Society, all are allowed to be heard. The Teacher Unions' militant resistance to any new ideas and change, is absolutely appalling. They're employing Gestapo intimidation tactics these days. And who are they to dictate all matters of American Education? We need fresh ideas for Education. It's time. The System is broken.

 

[bripat9643]

When a private school starts getting taxpayer funded vouchers, it de facto becomes a public school,

and should be held to every standard, rule, regulation, restriction that the public school is.

So if someone on welfare puts money in the collection basket, does that make the church a government church?

Liberal legal theories aren't just wrong, they are positively idiotic.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Vouchers are just a conservative handout program. You take my tax dollars, hand them over to some parents who want to send their kids to a fundie Christian school to learn there's no such thing as evolution.

No.

So public schools are a liberal handout? Is that what you're trying to say?

I'm saying conservatives aren't for less government spending, they're for less spending for the other guy, so there's more for them.

Ahh so you're saying the conservatives are for spending money on them, but when they try to eliminate a program such as the NEA, or dept of Education and liberals wail like banshees......that it's the conservatives fault for not getting that done? So you'd like them to actually cut spending, is that what I'm hearing?

 

[bripat9643]

they should.

Private schools have fewer regulations and better material to work with.

Not true. Even when you control for the quality of the students, private schools do a better job. Those regulations are part the reason government schools suck. When you have government schools, you have regulations. That's never going to change. That's just one more reason to support vouchers.

cam we have a link to that study please?

Right after you provide a link to the study that says private schools perform better because they only accept the smart kids.

 

[bripat9643]

they should.

Private schools have fewer regulations and better material to work with.

Not true. Even when you control for the quality of the students, private schools do a better job. Those regulations are part the reason government schools suck. When you have government schools, you have regulations. That's never going to change. That's just one more reason to support vouchers.

I'd like a link to that study as well. I'm curious as to how they control for the quality of students.

School Vouchers in DC Produce Gains in Both Test Scores and Graduation Rates : Education Next

School Vouchers in DC Produce Gains in Both Test Scores and Graduation Rates