Teaching Masturbation To 5-year-olds?

[koshergrl]

And delta maintains, in error, that it's quite healthy for very young children to masturbate.

I'd suggest you're both right. I think it's a matter of degrees. Little kids explore their bodies. Abused children compulsively masturbate, even when told to stop.

Real scientists don't make such declarative statements as with, "Abused children compulsively masturbate..." A) Not all abuse is sexual, B) Not all victims of child sexual abuse develop the same symptoms so you can say if A does B it's because of C. C) What exactly is meant by compulsive?

It's not science, it's propaganda. Before taking some religious lunatic like kosher's word on ANYTHING, please for the love of God google around for yourself. Kosher's a nutjob.

First of all, I'm not claiming to be a real scientist, and when I made that statement, it was a generalization, not meant to include every case in history.

What I mean by "compulsive," is a child who masturbates even when told not to (like in a public place). Interestingly, the link that kosher provided listed a few more scenarios that she didn't see fit to include in her post. I think it is a much more comprehensive list.

• Masturbation is indicative of possible sexual abuse if:
  • Child masturbates to the point of injury.
  • Child masturbates numerous times a day.
  • Child cannot stop masturbating.
  • Child inserts objects into vagina or anus.
  • Child makes groaning or moaning sounds while masturbating.
  • Child engages in thrusting motions while masturbating.

I understood you were paraphrasing Kosher.

List above is a diagnostic. Diagnostics aren't always helpful or definitive. And that aprticular ones describes the masturbatory habits of pretty much everyone. Maybe we're all victims? Oh noes! Only two that are ones I'd use are 'to the point of injury,' or 'can't stop.' But I'd be thinking mental illness like obsessive-compulsive disorder. Perhaps caused by prior abuse but that'd come later determining that.

In any event, psychiatric diagnostics aren't a reason not to teach masturbation to children any more than teaching children not to shake hands because it spreads germs would be.

In other words, we should teach 5 year olds to masturbate.

You do realize that's illegal, right?

 

[ricechickie]

Delta's working from a different perspective, ricechickie.

Maybe so. Either way, there's no harm in discussing.

 

[koshergrl]

Who said there was?

The harm is when it comes to PROMOTING illegal and abusive behavior.

 

[koshergrl]

And what he is suggesting, the *teaching* of masturbation to children, is indeed illegal.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I understood you were paraphrasing Kosher.

List above is a diagnostic. Diagnostics aren't always helpful or definitive. And that aprticular ones describes the masturbatory habits of pretty much everyone. Maybe we're all victims? Oh noes! Only two that are ones I'd use are 'to the point of injury,' or 'can't stop.' But I'd be thinking mental illness like obsessive-compulsive disorder. Perhaps caused by prior abuse but that'd come later determining that.

In any event, psychiatric diagnostics aren't a reason not to teach masturbation to children any more than teaching children not to shake hands because it spreads germs would be.

Honestly, at that young age, I'd rather leave it to the parents.....just like I taught my kids. I didn't slap their hands away, or scold them from touching themselves, but I did tell them that it's a private thing and better done when alone.

I can mostly agree there. However, the con-side of that proposal is that sexual health is tied directly with mental health. Do a lot of good affirming masturbation's normal and healthy. I can see how some religious parents will take exception, but that's why they can opt out of most every sex-ed class.

And if the alternative's leaving such a basic human acitvity babies do it ambiguous, then will the sex-proper education stuff later on overemphasize having sex with all the issues that has? I.E. if we teach kids can pleasure themselves wont they have sex less? Less unwanted pregnancies, abortions, STIs, etc. and isn't that better all around?

 

[ricechickie]

Who said there was?

The harm is when it comes to PROMOTING illegal and abusive behavior.

Like actively teaching a child how to masturbate? Absolutely.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Delta's working from a different perspective, ricechickie.

Maybe so. Either way, there's no harm in discussing.

My perspective is the same perspective as an overwhelming majority of mental health professionals. Kosher's is that of the religious community, bless their cotton socks.

 

[koshergrl]

I understood you were paraphrasing Kosher.

List above is a diagnostic. Diagnostics aren't always helpful or definitive. And that aprticular ones describes the masturbatory habits of pretty much everyone. Maybe we're all victims? Oh noes! Only two that are ones I'd use are 'to the point of injury,' or 'can't stop.' But I'd be thinking mental illness like obsessive-compulsive disorder. Perhaps caused by prior abuse but that'd come later determining that.

In any event, psychiatric diagnostics aren't a reason not to teach masturbation to children any more than teaching children not to shake hands because it spreads germs would be.

Honestly, at that young age, I'd rather leave it to the parents.....just like I taught my kids. I didn't slap their hands away, or scold them from touching themselves, but I did tell them that it's a private thing and better done when alone.

I can mostly agree there. However, the con-side of that proposal is that sexual health is tied directly with mental health. Do a lot of good affirming masturbation's normal and healthy. I can see how some religious parents will take exception, but that's why they can opt out of most every sex-ed class.

And if the alternative's leaving such a basic human acitvity babies do it ambiguous, then will the sex-proper education stuff later on overemphasize having sex with all the issues that has? I.E. if we teach kids can pleasure themselves wont they have sex less? Less unwanted pregnancies, abortions, STIs, etc. and isn't that better all around?

No, you psychopath.

 

[koshergrl]

Delta's working from a different perspective, ricechickie.

Maybe so. Either way, there's no harm in discussing.

My perspective is the same perspective as an overwhelming majority of mental health professionals. Kosher's is that of the religious community, bless their cotton socks.

Only the mentally ill ones that abuse children.

And they are about.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Who said there was?

The harm is when it comes to PROMOTING illegal and abusive behavior.

Like actively teaching a child how to masturbate? Absolutely.

Don't imagine the school was proposing that as it's redundant. I didn't need any instruction as I recall. Imagine what they'd wanna teach is simply it's part of growing up, and I'd hope, "that said, don't do it here at school."

 

[ricechickie]

Who said there was?

The harm is when it comes to PROMOTING illegal and abusive behavior.

Like actively teaching a child how to masturbate? Absolutely.

Don't imagine the school was proposing that as it's redundant. I didn't need any instruction as I recall. Imagine what they'd wanna teach is simply it's part of growing up, and I'd hope, "that said, don't do it here at school."

I know. I don't see anything that says that anyone was considering teaching children to masturbate.

 

[koshergrl]

Who said there was?

The harm is when it comes to PROMOTING illegal and abusive behavior.

Like actively teaching a child how to masturbate? Absolutely.

Don't imagine the school was proposing that as it's redundant. I didn't need any instruction as I recall. Imagine what they'd wanna teach is simply it's part of growing up, and I'd hope, "that said, don't do it here at school."

I know. I don't see anything that says that anyone was considering teaching children to masturbate.

You missed this:

"If we teach kids can pleasure themselves wont they have sex less? Less unwanted pregnancies, abortions, STIs, etc. and isn't that better all around?"

And that's just the most recent one.

Here's another:

"In any event, psychiatric diagnostics aren't a reason not to teach masturbation to children"

 

[Delta4Embassy]

< Snip >

Moderation Note:
Cannot post that much copyrighted material without a proper link...
Linking to sites with incidental nudity isn't a problem. Just don't bring the nude material directly to the board..

FlaCalTenn

Love to link her site but it absolutely positively violates the no-nudity rules here. Should be hit 1 though googling her name.

 

[Bush92]

Recently there have appeared different initiatives on educational reforms. On innovations. Whatever. But sometimes the innovators cross the line, imho.
This article tells about an idea that was discussed in one of the schools – to tell kids from 5 to 8 about masturbation. Though having interest for your genitals is natural at this period of kids’ psychological development, is it really necessary to talk about that at school?
The officials said they were just gathering community input. But the fact this idea even got into their minds and was discussed seems to me quite alarming.

If Obama said this was good every liberal on this board would be teaching it to their children.

 

[ricechickie]

You missed this:

"If we teach kids can pleasure themselves wont they have sex less? Less unwanted pregnancies, abortions, STIs, etc. and isn't that better all around?"

And that's just the most recent one.

Here's another:

"In any event, psychiatric diagnostics aren't a reason not to teach masturbation to children"

*sigh*

I meant in the OP link.

 

[koshergrl]

You said "anyone"..and you said it in response to my statement that Delta was doing it.

 

[koshergrl]

Following sums up the needs for more and better quality education about sex beginning in grade school as most colleges don't teach it unless it's a major or minor course requirement. From Dr. Betty Dodson PhD.

"After hearing countless sex histories from girls and women over the past four decades, I believe sexual repression begins the moment a parent or caregiver punishes a child’s natural curiosity for touching their own sex organs.

Society needs to understand that the health of each person’s sexlife rests upon childhood masturbation— the foundation upon which all of human sexuality is based. It’s very consistent that each client I see struggling with orgasms as an adult has no memory of masturbating in childhood or in their teens. The absence of this natural self-exploration interferes with the development of nerve pathways that carry positive sensations from our genitals to the pleasure center in the brain. This blocks or slows down the development of sexual release with orgasm.

Not as many boys get the same message of “Don’t touch your-self down there” as do girls. The male sex organ is more easily accessible so society tacitly agrees that a boy’s sexual interest is more natural or urgent due to the ejaculation of semen. However, all societies controlled by some form of organized religion demonize pleasure for its own sake, so boys suffer masturbation repression as well. The predominant acceptance for sexuality remains fixated on procreation within a monogamous heterosexual marriage— far too narrow an image. Therefore most of us are sinners in the eyes of the church which makes it much easier to control a large portion of the population by a few.

Female sexual conditioning is already in play when a concerned parent unknowingly sets up a sexual double standard when mothers want their sons to be sexual but fear their daughters might end up with an unwanted teen pregnancy with all that entails. Therefore, most girls grow up without any idea of where her sexual feelings come from except by accident like climbing a rope in gym class, clenching their legs together or rocking on the arm of an overstuffed chair. They become fixated on some weird form of indirect clitoral stimulation that rarely translates into partnersex. Meanwhile, boys learn to come quickly to avoid getting “caught in the act.” This leads to adult men ejaculating fast because they have not learned to sustain heightened sexual feelings. So for every pre-orgasmic woman there is a pre-mature ejaculating man.

Add to this all the jokes, disgust or moral condemnation shown toward masturbation and we have a recipe for preventing people from discovering the joys of orgasmic sex. Those who do masturbate often struggle with guilt and self-loathing. Once we include Dr. Freud’s theory of “mature vaginal orgasms” for women and more recently the much debated, yet fashionable G spot, we have a population that is very sexually confused. Men believe they must “give” a woman her orgasm to prove they’re good lovers while women have been conditioned to protect the male ego. Many women end up faking an orgasm to avoid hurting a lovers feelings and thus sacrificing their own pleasure. As if that isn’t bad enough, we misname the female genitals by reducing all the parts down to a “vagina” which only refers to the birth canal. When was the last time you saw the word clitoris in print or heard it said on television?

Sex educators know this: When we go on television, we are told we can say “G” spot but refer to the clitoris as the “C” spot. When I was interviewed by Bill O’Reilly in 2002, I was told that I couldn’t say “Orgasms for Two” the title of my book, so I had to use the sub title, “The Joy of Partnersex.” Bill said it was because his was a “family show.” I took that to mean families didn’t have any orgasms which is probably closer to the truth.

As long as church and state continues to limit sex to procreation, we’ll have a severely repressed society. Nearly all men can ejaculate quickly but far too many women are not orgasmic. These women suffer from guilt and self-loathing and blame themselves for being “frigid” or today it’s called “sexually dysfunctional.” Both women and men end up comparing themselves to porn stars, which has been society’s primary form of sex education. Naturally this causes more insecurity and dissention in relationships often leading to divorce and the break-up of families. But a sexually controlled society is much easier to manipulate by a few authoritarian dictators, priests, or other so-called leaders.

We now have a chance to change the course of history with the emerging Global Revolution. This time we must complete the sexual revolution that began in the sixties by including orgasmic pleasure in the teaching of human sexuality.

“Help me Dr. Betty. I’ve never had an orgasm.” I have lost track of how many times I‘ve answered this very same question: I want to share this near perfect example from Rebecca. Her story represents many young girls’ struggle with the inability to discover and enjoy the experience of orgasm. In a society where sex is everywhere we turn, this can be emotionally very painful. She feels broken and sexually inadequate."

Love to link her site but it absolutely positively violates the no-nudity rules here. Should be hit 1 though googling her name.

No, thanks.

 

[koshergrl]

PS..aside from using a garbage quote, using quotes without links is also against the rules.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Think the rule's 'without attribution' I attributed the quote. And as much as gave the link

 

[koshergrl]

No, you told us to google it, and said the link would break the rules.

I think the rule is that you provide a link....or at least a citation that gives the work that the quote comes from.