Ten Inconvenient Truths About The National Debt: It's Worse Than You Think...

[DontBeStupid]

No it is not. All companies and even state and local government have to calculate how much money they will need in the future to cover future bills. That is what the article is saying. It is saying that if we were budgeting in a way that says Social Security and Medicare will certainly be provided we would have to have 22.2 trillion dollars in the bank gaining interest. Since it is not a guarantee to future generations we don't have to budget the money to cover Social Security or Medicare.

Lets try this from a different angle, since you really can't grasp this the other way.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS. What interest rate would we need? And how long would that last? Because the article mentions neither.

I will poste again that we don't have the money to pay for Social Security or Medicare for the future. Disability benefits will be all gone by 2016 according to the CBO. Medicare will be out of money by 2024 and SSN will be out of money by 2035.

This is 100% false.

In (about) 2035, the SS Trust Fund will run out but SS will still be bringing in revenue equal to approximately 75% to 80% of inflation-adjusted benefits. In other words, they will not be out of money.

 

[miami_thomas]

You don't change accounting practices at all. The government has their own set of accounting practices in the first place. Most businesses must consider liabilities that are unfunded on their balance sheets. The government does not. It takes the road that it can simply expire any number of items it can not pay for, even if by social contract it is sold as an obligation. For instance, social security. SS does not and never has had its own fund. It is a general tax on the sheet. If they can not pay it, they simply will not pay it. And they will still collect the taxation for the "service".

You're trying to doublethink me, fella. It's not going to work. The government currently has 120 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities in social programs. This is not an accounting practice change. it is true accounting. Someone else in here posted that we would need to come up with 24 trillion dollars right now in order to save these programs from an inevitable mathematical default. I read that we would need to raise GDP 24% right now and maintain it in order for the government to cover these unfunded liabilities based on real accounting practices.

You're idiotic analysis (or rather, the analysis you copied off of some other moron), is predicated on the assumption that future tax revenues will be zero.
Its meaningless to include future payments the government must make in your analysis while excluding future payments it will receive.
Not exactly an accurate assumption.

I don't think they know what they're copying and pasting. The fact that they think we must have the money today to cover something that will happen 50 years from is just comical.

So your answer is just don't make payments for the house then in 50 years after not saving to pay for the house and not making payments then you can pay it all off in one day hoping of course by some miracle that you have all the money for the house that one day. Then if you don't have the money to pay, everyone is just going to be out on the street. By the way, we start running out of money in 2016 which is only 4 years out. Then next is 2024 which is 12 years out. Then the last is 2035 which is 23 years out. But hey obviously it is 50 years. And funny thing every year the CBO is predicting earlier and earlier. For instance last year we were going to run out for SSN in 2026 and Medicare in 2038. But you are probably right we can just kick everyone out on the street.
I will poste again that we don't have the money to pay for Social Security or Medicare for the future. Disability benefits will be all gone by 2016 according to the CBO. Medicare will be out of money by 2024 and SSN will be out of money by 2035.

 

[The T]

HAHA! I love that you think we need $120T this year to cover our liabilities for this year.

Just ... awesome.

We'll see how you feel about massive Debt spending when a Republican gets back in the White House. I have a hunch your opinion on this issue will change drastically. Just a hunch though.

It's nice to see you admitting that a Republican President will be a massive debt spender.

^^Hey Paulitician? By this you can see that he hasn't paid attention and considers YOU as a partisan same as him? Is DBS trying to pull YOU into his gutter?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

What's really funny is that trynottobesofuckingstupid has actually pulled us into his hampster wheel. We explain it, show evidence, explain it again, show evidence, tell it a different way and it just does not sink in even a little.

You're so right, man! The government is on track to meet all of its obligations! We should lower taxes!!!

 

[miami_thomas]

No it is not. All companies and even state and local government have to calculate how much money they will need in the future to cover future bills. That is what the article is saying. It is saying that if we were budgeting in a way that says Social Security and Medicare will certainly be provided we would have to have 22.2 trillion dollars in the bank gaining interest. Since it is not a guarantee to future generations we don't have to budget the money to cover Social Security or Medicare.

Lets try this from a different angle, since you really can't grasp this the other way.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS. What interest rate would we need? And how long would that last? Because the article mentions neither.

I will poste again that we don't have the money to pay for Social Security or Medicare for the future. Disability benefits will be all gone by 2016 according to the CBO. Medicare will be out of money by 2024 and SSN will be out of money by 2035.

This is 100% false.

In (about) 2035, the SS Trust Fund will run out but SS will still be bringing in revenue equal to approximately 75% to 80% of inflation-adjusted benefits. In other words, they will not be out of money.

So you are smarter than the CBO? You are an idiot and you will never be able to understand. You must live in a fairy tale land where money is not real just a figment of our imagination. There is no debt it is all fake. You probably also believe we live in a matrix. Please step away from the computer and TV set and come out here to reality.

WE ARE ALREADY 16 TRILLION IN DEBT. WE ARE ADDING TO THE DEBT AT THE PACE OF OVER 1 TRILLION PER YEAR. WHEN THOSE THINGS RUN OUT OF MONEY TO FUND IT “AT 100%” WHERE IS THE EXTRA MONEY TO COVER IT GOING TO COME FROM? YOU REALLY ARE AN IDIOT. YOU SEE THINGS TRULY IN A FLAT WAY THAT SEEMS TO BE PREVENTING YOU FROM SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE.

 

[DontBeStupid]

No it is not. All companies and even state and local government have to calculate how much money they will need in the future to cover future bills. That is what the article is saying. It is saying that if we were budgeting in a way that says Social Security and Medicare will certainly be provided we would have to have 22.2 trillion dollars in the bank gaining interest. Since it is not a guarantee to future generations we don't have to budget the money to cover Social Security or Medicare.

Lets try this from a different angle, since you really can't grasp this the other way.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS. What interest rate would we need? And how long would that last? Because the article mentions neither.

I will poste again that we don't have the money to pay for Social Security or Medicare for the future. Disability benefits will be all gone by 2016 according to the CBO. Medicare will be out of money by 2024 and SSN will be out of money by 2035.

This is 100% false.

In (about) 2035, the SS Trust Fund will run out but SS will still be bringing in revenue equal to approximately 75% to 80% of inflation-adjusted benefits. In other words, they will not be out of money.

So you are smarter than the CBO? You are an idiot and you will never be able to understand. You must live in a fairy tale land where money is not real just a figment of our imagination. There is no debt it is all fake. You probably also believe we live in a matrix. Please step away from the computer and TV set and come out here to reality.

WE ARE ALREADY 16 TRILLION IN DEBT. WE ARE ADDING TO THE DEBT AT THE PACE OF OVER 1 TRILLION PER YEAR. WHEN THOSE THINGS RUN OUT OF MONEY TO FUND IT “AT 100%” WHERE IS THE EXTRA MONEY TO COVER IT GOING TO COME FROM? YOU REALLY ARE AN IDIOT. YOU SEE THINGS TRULY IN A FLAT WAY THAT SEEMS TO BE PREVENTING YOU FROM SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE.

Calm down. You're getting hysterical. It's a simple question.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

 

[DontBeStupid]

It's a simple question.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

Heh heh where did everyone go?

You're all so adamant about needing this money now, TODAY, but you don't know how long it will last? Not Miami_Taylor? Not TakeAStepBack? Not The T? Not Paulitician?

Wow. I'd think with a topic this serious you guys would know. Hmm.

 

[The T]

It's a simple question.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

Heh heh where did everyone go?

You're all so adamant about needing this money now, TODAY, but you don't know how long it will last? Not Miami_Taylor? Not TakeAStepBack? Not The T? Not Paulitician?

Wow. I'd think with a topic this serious you guys would know. Hmm.

You have already been schooled. You rejected.

Regurgitate much?

Moron.

 

[DontBeStupid]

It's a simple question.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

Heh heh where did everyone go?

You're all so adamant about needing this money now, TODAY, but you don't know how long it will last? Not Miami_Taylor? Not TakeAStepBack? Not The T? Not Paulitician?

Wow. I'd think with a topic this serious you guys would know. Hmm.

You have already been schooled. You rejected.

Regurgitate much?

Moron.

The T doesn't know. Anyone else want to try and answer the question?

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

 

[miami_thomas]

Lets try this from a different angle, since you really can't grasp this the other way.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS. What interest rate would we need? And how long would that last? Because the article mentions neither.


This is 100% false.

In (about) 2035, the SS Trust Fund will run out but SS will still be bringing in revenue equal to approximately 75% to 80% of inflation-adjusted benefits. In other words, they will not be out of money.

So you are smarter than the CBO? You are an idiot and you will never be able to understand. You must live in a fairy tale land where money is not real just a figment of our imagination. There is no debt it is all fake. You probably also believe we live in a matrix. Please step away from the computer and TV set and come out here to reality.

WE ARE ALREADY 16 TRILLION IN DEBT. WE ARE ADDING TO THE DEBT AT THE PACE OF OVER 1 TRILLION PER YEAR. WHEN THOSE THINGS RUN OUT OF MONEY TO FUND IT “AT 100%” WHERE IS THE EXTRA MONEY TO COVER IT GOING TO COME FROM? YOU REALLY ARE AN IDIOT. YOU SEE THINGS TRULY IN A FLAT WAY THAT SEEMS TO BE PREVENTING YOU FROM SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE.

Calm down. You're getting hysterical. It's a simple question.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

it would set us on a path to meet our obligations in the future. But we would have to add money to that account every year to cover future obligations. As far as How far out it looks you would need to check the federal law requirements to see How car out it is needed. States have to do it for their pensions so the formula shouldn't be hard to find. The federal law requirements is What he is using to calculate the 22.2t

 

[DontBeStupid]

So you are smarter than the CBO? You are an idiot and you will never be able to understand. You must live in a fairy tale land where money is not real just a figment of our imagination. There is no debt it is all fake. You probably also believe we live in a matrix. Please step away from the computer and TV set and come out here to reality.

WE ARE ALREADY 16 TRILLION IN DEBT. WE ARE ADDING TO THE DEBT AT THE PACE OF OVER 1 TRILLION PER YEAR. WHEN THOSE THINGS RUN OUT OF MONEY TO FUND IT “AT 100%” WHERE IS THE EXTRA MONEY TO COVER IT GOING TO COME FROM? YOU REALLY ARE AN IDIOT. YOU SEE THINGS TRULY IN A FLAT WAY THAT SEEMS TO BE PREVENTING YOU FROM SEE THE WHOLE PICTURE.

Calm down. You're getting hysterical. It's a simple question.

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

it would set us on a path to meet our obligations in the future. But we would have to add money to that account every year to cover future obligations. As far as How far out it looks you would need to check the federal law requirements to see How car out it is needed. States have to do it for their pensions so the formula shouldn't be hard to find. The federal law requirements is What he is using to calculate the 22.2t

Ok. So Miami_Thomas doesn't know either. Anyone else?

Come on. Some good "conservative" out there has to have an idea about this!

 

[The T]

Heh heh where did everyone go?

You're all so adamant about needing this money now, TODAY, but you don't know how long it will last? Not Miami_Taylor? Not TakeAStepBack? Not The T? Not Paulitician?

Wow. I'd think with a topic this serious you guys would know. Hmm.

You have already been schooled. You rejected.

Regurgitate much?

Moron.

The T doesn't know. Anyone else want to try and answer the question?

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

Since when was there a $22T 'Lockbox' for Socialist Security?

Anyone? Bueller? Frye?

 

[DontBeStupid]

You have already been schooled. You rejected.

Regurgitate much?

Moron.

The T doesn't know. Anyone else want to try and answer the question?

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

Since when was there a $22T 'Lockbox' for Socialist Security?

Anyone? Bueller? Frye?

I never said there was, but TakeAStepBack and Miami_Thomas seem to be under the impression that if we had $22.2T in the bank right now, SS would be okay for .... well, they can't seem to tell us how long SS would be good for. Funny how that is.

 

[freedombecki]

1.) The amount by which the public debt — the portion of the national debt not borrowed by the U.S. government from funds it administers — has increased since President Obama took office is unprecedented, not politics as usual: more than $4.75 trillion (more than 75%), according to the Treasury Department. If the president’s second-term budget is implemented, he will end up (according to the Congressional Budget Office) increasing the public debt by $8.9 trillion. That exceeds the public debt incurred by all previous presidents combined — by more than $2.6 trillion.

2.) Large as the public debt is, it doesn’t include amounts the government has promised to pay but lacks the funds to pay. For example, the Social Security and Medicare trustees have estimated that we need more than $63 trillion right now to make promised payments for Social Security and Medicare benefits not covered by current Social Security and Medicare taxes.

3.) The government can’t keep incurring debt without consequence. High debt slows economic growth (meaning fewer jobs and less income), according to one study by Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff and a second study by Manmohan Kumar and Jaejoon Woo (refuting the claim that it is slow growth that causes higher public debt and not vice versa).

4.) It’s not like the government is skimping on spending. The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) has estimated that this year the federal government will spend 24.3 cents out of every dollar of the value of all final goods we produce and services we provide (add state and local expenditures and that figure increases to 44.2 cents).

5.) Interest payments on the debt are skyrocketing. The CBO has estimated that the president’s proposals will more than triple interest on the public debt from $237 billion in 2013 to $743 billion in 2022 (more than the Department of Defense is spending on military programs and more than seven times what the Department of Education is spending). That money will enrich other countries (the Treasury Department estimates that almost half of the debt is held by foreign investors).

6.) There aren’t enough rich people to balance the budget on their backs. Ending President Bush’s income and estate tax cuts for the “rich” (defined as individuals with taxable income exceeding $200,000 and couples with taxable income exceeding $250,000) would (according to the OMB) reduce the 2013 deficit by less than 5% ($46.6 billion)...

Read more: Ten inconvenient truths about the national debt | The Daily Caller

Wise people don't bury themselves in bill payments. We have nothing left over from Congress' spending spree when interest payments are made. All that taxpayer money, going to interest.

Hey there, Congress: Please pay off the national debt.!

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Im not under any impression. We're talking about the figures some have concluded to to keep SS solvent. Personally, it's never going to get fix. Ever. One thing is for sure, there are 120 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities in social programs.

That number will continue to climb unless government actually sets our SS money aside instead of spending it as it is incurred.

You on the other hand, believe everything is just hunky dory. All is well, nothing to worry about here!
Go on with your bad self. Just dont fucking complain when the default occurs and you realize all the SS money youve paid in will never reap you a benefit.

 

[Care4all]

Im not under any impression. We're talking about the figures some have concluded to to keep SS solvent. Personally, it's never going to get fix. Ever. One thing is for sure, there are 120 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities in social programs.

That number will continue to climb unless government actually sets our SS money aside instead of spending it as it is incurred.

You on the other hand, believe everything is just hunky dory. All is well, nothing to worry about here!
Go on with your bad self. Just dont fucking complain when the default occurs and you realize all the SS money youve paid in will never reap you a benefit.

Over how many years does your 120trillion fall in to? 75 years?

 

[DontBeStupid]

The T doesn't know. Anyone else want to try and answer the question?

If we had $22.2T in the bank right now for SS, how long would that last?

Since when was there a $22T 'Lockbox' for Socialist Security?

Anyone? Bueller? Frye?

I never said there was, but TakeAStepBack and Miami_Thomas seem to be under the impression that if we had $22.2T in the bank right now, SS would be okay for .... well, they can't seem to tell us how long SS would be good for. Funny how that is.

Well, it's no fun when you guys stop posting because you don't understand the topic. Ok. I'll help out and give you the answer.

Projections for SS are done on a 75-year basis. The $22.2T number (which I don't doubt) would cover all shortfalls for SS for 75 years. That's $296B on average per year for 75 years, but of course, we'd need less now and more later.

Now, the reason TakeAStepBack and Miami_Thomas and really, most Republicans, are wrong on this topic, is they think we need all 75 years worth today. Remember, they used large font and bold, so they really mean it. Demanding it all today is just a tactic to kill it. Nothing more. We don't need all of it today. We need a portion of it every year and if we got a portion of it every year we'd be fine.

And that, is what people like 8537, OohPooPahDoo and myself are talking about. The Government has a stream of tax revenue right now and could easily raise that stream if it wanted to. It could easily increase its assets to cover its liabilities. How easily? When the SS Fund runs out around 2035, it will still bring in enough to cover about 80% of all payments. It only needs to get that last 20% and it's fine. The salary cap right now could be slowly raised until that last 20% is brought in and everything is fine. This would only have to be temporary, as most predictions are that after the Boomers die out, Gen X, Gen Y and the Millenials will have the population distribution to sustain SS going forward.

Easy fix. Too bad half the country doesn't want it or understand it.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

It's based on current "funding". Which means our ability to borrow.

Do you want to here it is a 75 year projection so you can go back to sleep?
The liability is there, right now. That liability is unfunded.

Not another one!

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Since when was there a $22T 'Lockbox' for Socialist Security?

Anyone? Bueller? Frye?

I never said there was, but TakeAStepBack and Miami_Thomas seem to be under the impression that if we had $22.2T in the bank right now, SS would be okay for .... well, they can't seem to tell us how long SS would be good for. Funny how that is.

Well, it's no fun when you guys stop posting because you don't understand the topic. Ok. I'll help out and give you the answer.

Projections for SS are done on a 75-year basis. The $22.2T number (which I don't doubt) would cover all shortfalls for SS for 75 years. That's $296B on average per year for 75 years, but of course, we'd need less now and more later.

Now, the reason TakeAStepBack and Miami_Thomas and really, most Republicans, are wrong on this topic, is they think we need all 75 years worth today. Remember, they used large font and bold, so they really mean it. Demanding it all today is just a tactic to kill it. Nothing more. We don't need all of it today. We need a portion of it every year and if we got a portion of it every year we'd be fine.

And that, is what people like 8537, OohPooPahDoo and myself are talking about. The Government has a stream of tax revenue right now and could easily raise that stream if it wanted to. It could easily increase its assets to cover its liabilities. How easily? When the SS Fund runs out around 2035, it will still bring in enough to cover about 80% of all payments. It only needs to get that last 20% and it's fine. The salary cap right now could be slowly raised until that last 20% is brought in and everything is fine. This would only have to be temporary, as most predictions are that after the Boomers die out, Gen X, Gen Y and the Millenials will have the population distribution to sustain SS going forward.

Easy fix. Too bad half the country doesn't want it or understand it.

TryingNotToBeSoFuckingStupid wants people to pay for their SS twice by raising taxes on us to fund what we've already paid. Then says the government IF this and IF that. All the while not smart enough to realize that even if they tax us more, they will spend it and come back to us with their pockets turned inside out. At which point, dumb fucks like TryingNotToBeSoFuckingStupid, will say, well, we can just raise taxes again! And on we go until the bottom drops out.

It takes a fuckign moron of epcot proportions to not see that this path is not sustainable. But by all means, keep believing your own horseshit.

 

[DontBeStupid]

I never said there was, but TakeAStepBack and Miami_Thomas seem to be under the impression that if we had $22.2T in the bank right now, SS would be okay for .... well, they can't seem to tell us how long SS would be good for. Funny how that is.

Well, it's no fun when you guys stop posting because you don't understand the topic. Ok. I'll help out and give you the answer.

Projections for SS are done on a 75-year basis. The $22.2T number (which I don't doubt) would cover all shortfalls for SS for 75 years. That's $296B on average per year for 75 years, but of course, we'd need less now and more later.

Now, the reason TakeAStepBack and Miami_Thomas and really, most Republicans, are wrong on this topic, is they think we need all 75 years worth today. Remember, they used large font and bold, so they really mean it. Demanding it all today is just a tactic to kill it. Nothing more. We don't need all of it today. We need a portion of it every year and if we got a portion of it every year we'd be fine.

And that, is what people like 8537, OohPooPahDoo and myself are talking about. The Government has a stream of tax revenue right now and could easily raise that stream if it wanted to. It could easily increase its assets to cover its liabilities. How easily? When the SS Fund runs out around 2035, it will still bring in enough to cover about 80% of all payments. It only needs to get that last 20% and it's fine. The salary cap right now could be slowly raised until that last 20% is brought in and everything is fine. This would only have to be temporary, as most predictions are that after the Boomers die out, Gen X, Gen Y and the Millenials will have the population distribution to sustain SS going forward.

Easy fix. Too bad half the country doesn't want it or understand it.

TryingNotToBeSoFuckingStupid wants people to pay for their SS twice by raising taxes on us to fund what we've already paid. Then says the government IF this and IF that. All the while not smart enough to realize that even if they tax us more, they will spend it and come back to us with their pockets turned inside out. At which point, dumb fucks like TryingNotToBeSoFuckingStupid, will say, well, we can just raise taxes again! And on we go until the bottom drops out.

It takes a fuckign moron of epcot proportions to not see that this path is not sustainable. But by all means, keep believing your own horseshit.

I understand your position better than you do. That's how I know you're wrong.

Good luck out there.