Thanks Barack 3 West Virginia Coal Plants to Close

[Big Fitz]

Wait. That can't be right! After all, you "knew the regulations were "draconian", didn't you? But you didn't even know what they were based on?
Hmmm. Could someone's opinions be formed not on facts, but politics?
Say it isn't so!

We have a cost/benefit analysis of these new regs?

You mean cost of fixing vs. benefit of not getting emphsyma, cancer etc... no - just an analysis of the damage done to the locals. Guess that's not important enough eh?

Has there been shown an actual direct causitory link and need for these regs improving our lives?
No?

Your ignorance is showing. The answer you're looking for would be "Yes".

Then by default it is tyranny and onerous.

Except for that not making people sick or killing them part......

have proof of direct cause? Increased risk is NOT cause.

 

[bripat9643]

So then it's your contention that the AMA and SG didn't find the level of mercury et. al. toxins directly attributable to asthma and other respiratory diseases surrounding these plants? Not to mention a rate of heart attacks that was 600% above the norm?
Or is it your contention that all that is okay cuz you know, it's not like you live there...

I've never seen any such claims. Where may I find them?

Wait. That can't be right! After all, you "knew the regulations were "draconian", didn't you? But you didn't even know what they were based on?
Hmmm. Could someone's opinions be formed not on facts, but politics?
Say it isn't so!

I've seen the claims the EPA makes. I've also seen some bogus claims by the AMA. However, I've never seen any claim the the incidence of elevated mercury levels, asthma or heart attacks was higher in the immediate vicinity of coal fired power plants. If you have such evidence, then tell me where I can find it. I would love to see it.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong "Bezerk"; Obama did not push for an increase fines for companies that violate regs. THAT is his fault, and his alone. And until the catfight between Newt & Romney, Romney was my choice for President. The Republican nomination has become so nasty, it is tough to pick an alternative to Obama.

Sorry to inform you of this, but there is no choice to the left of Obama.

The child continues; I want the best in the REPUBLICAN field. After the Florida primary, that is difficult to ascertain.

Why do you care about the Republican candidate when you're going to vote for Obama?

 

[The T]

Wait. That can't be right! After all, you "knew the regulations were "draconian", didn't you? But you didn't even know what they were based on?
Hmmm. Could someone's opinions be formed not on facts, but politics?
Say it isn't so!

We have a cost/benefit analysis of these new regs?

You mean cost of fixing vs. benefit of not getting emphsyma, cancer etc... no - just an analysis of the damage done to the locals. Guess that's not important enough eh?

Has there been shown an actual direct causitory link and need for these regs improving our lives?
No?

Your ignorance is showing. The answer you're looking for would be "Yes".

Then by default it is tyranny and onerous.

Except for that not making people sick or killing them part......

Life on the planet is risk...you really wanna go with this shit?

 

[Big Fitz]

I've never seen any such claims. Where may I find them?

Wait. That can't be right! After all, you "knew the regulations were "draconian", didn't you? But you didn't even know what they were based on?
Hmmm. Could someone's opinions be formed not on facts, but politics?
Say it isn't so!

I've seen the claims the EPA makes. I've also seen some bogus claims by the AMA. However, I've never seen any claim the the incidence of elevated mercury levels, asthma or heart attacks was higher in the immediate vicinity of coal fired power plants. If you have such evidence, then tell me where I can find it. I would love to see it.

and there are OH so FEW causes for Athsma too.

 

[Big Fitz]

We have a cost/benefit analysis of these new regs?

You mean cost of fixing vs. benefit of not getting emphsyma, cancer etc... no - just an analysis of the damage done to the locals. Guess that's not important enough eh?

Has there been shown an actual direct causitory link and need for these regs improving our lives?
No?

Your ignorance is showing. The answer you're looking for would be "Yes".

Then by default it is tyranny and onerous.

Except for that not making people sick or killing them part......

Life on the planet is risk...you really wanna go with this shit?

mmmmm actuarial table goodness......

 

[The T]

Sorry to inform you of this, but there is no choice to the left of Obama.

The child continues; I want the best in the REPUBLICAN field. After the Florida primary, that is difficult to ascertain.

Why do you care about the Republican candidate when you're going to vote for Obama?

Because it's in Statist vogue, and deflects on the real question?

 

[Big Fitz]

The child continues; I want the best in the REPUBLICAN field. After the Florida primary, that is difficult to ascertain.

Why do you care about the Republican candidate when you're going to vote for Obama?

Because it's in Statist vogue, and deflects on the real question?

They're hoping for an "Anti-Reagan" landslide victory that will give them a mandate over the nation for the next 30 years... like when FDR won.

 

[IndependntLogic]

I've never seen any such claims. Where may I find them?

Wait. That can't be right! After all, you "knew the regulations were "draconian", didn't you? But you didn't even know what they were based on?
Hmmm. Could someone's opinions be formed not on facts, but politics?
Say it isn't so!

I've seen the claims the EPA makes. I've also seen some bogus claims by the AMA. However, I've never seen any claim the the incidence of elevated mercury levels, asthma or heart attacks was higher in the immediate vicinity of coal fired power plants. If you have such evidence, then tell me where I can find it. I would love to see it.

Well Jeez dude, if you don't like the EPA data and call the AMA data bogus, you don't leave much to post. The state agencies (whom are influenced by what largest industry in W. Va?) even admit that
"
in the 14 counties where the biggest coal mining operations are located residents reported higher rates of cardiopulmonary disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, hypertension, diabetes, and lung and kidney disease. In each of those counties, mining topped 4 million tons of coal a year.

"Residents of coal mining communities have long complained of impaired health. This study substantiates their claims. Those residents are at an increased risk of developing chronic heart, lung and kidney diseases," said Dr. Michael Hendryx, associate director of the Institute for Health Policy Research in West Virginia University's Department of Community Medicine and lead author of the study."

But of course, they're owned by local business so they're doing the usual "Of course it COULD just all be a really big coincidence!" thing. They like their jobs.

So okay. Ya got us. The EPA and Obama conspired to put 100 people out of work in W. Virginia, not because the facilities were old and it was discovered people were getting sick and dying or anything - nope, they did it because they hate miners. Yeah that makes sense. No "It's bad because it happened under Obama!" going on here! Got it.

 

[rdean]

Funny, when I asked a right winger how many babies born with birth defects are acceptable, the right winger said, well, if we want jobs, some things are unavoidable.

So I asked the right winger how many of their kids would they let have a birth defect to help the country and they said "None".

 

[The T]

Wait. That can't be right! After all, you "knew the regulations were "draconian", didn't you? But you didn't even know what they were based on?
Hmmm. Could someone's opinions be formed not on facts, but politics?
Say it isn't so!

I've seen the claims the EPA makes. I've also seen some bogus claims by the AMA. However, I've never seen any claim the the incidence of elevated mercury levels, asthma or heart attacks was higher in the immediate vicinity of coal fired power plants. If you have such evidence, then tell me where I can find it. I would love to see it.

Well Jeez dude, if you don't like the EPA data and call the AMA data bogus, you don't leave much to post. The state agencies (whom are influenced by what largest industry in W. Va?) even admit that
"
in the 14 counties where the biggest coal mining operations are located residents reported higher rates of cardiopulmonary disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, hypertension, diabetes, and lung and kidney disease. In each of those counties, mining topped 4 million tons of coal a year.

"Residents of coal mining communities have long complained of impaired health. This study substantiates their claims. Those residents are at an increased risk of developing chronic heart, lung and kidney diseases," said Dr. Michael Hendryx, associate director of the Institute for Health Policy Research in West Virginia University's Department of Community Medicine and lead author of the study."

But of course, they're owned by local business so they're doing the usual "Of course it COULD just all be a really big coincidence!" thing. They like their jobs.

So okay. Ya got us. The EPA and Obama conspired to put 100 people out of work in W. Virginia, not because the facilities were old and it was discovered people were getting sick and dying or anything - nope, they did it because they hate miners. Yeah that makes sense. No "It's bad because it happened under Obama!" going on here! Got it.

Obama conspires and HAS put more than 100 people out of work asshole.

 

[Big Fitz]

in the 14 counties where the biggest coal mining operations are located residents reported higher rates of cardiopulmonary disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, hypertension, diabetes, and lung and kidney disease. In each of those counties, mining topped 4 million tons of coal a year.

Yeah, we know about COAL MINING hazards. This is coal burning Power Plants. Pulmonary Silicosis or 'Black Lung' has been known about for 300 years. And? This is irrelevant to the discussion. Much of these problems have also been reduced with proper and REASONABLE safety equipment and procedures.

"Residents of coal mining communities have long complained of impaired health. This study substantiates their claims. Those residents are at an increased risk of developing chronic heart, lung and kidney diseases," said Dr. Michael Hendryx, associate director of the Institute for Health Policy Research in West Virginia University's Department of Community Medicine and lead author of the study."

Without direct cause this is just context. If you eat food, some day you will die.

But of course, they're owned by local business so they're doing the usual "Of course it COULD just all be a really big coincidence!" thing. They like their jobs.

"He who asserts, must prove." Socrates. I don''t suspect there are doctors reports that can say unequivocally all these maladies are "directly related to inhalation of coal smoke from these facilities", do they?

So okay. Ya got us. The EPA and Obama conspired to put 100 people out of work in W. Virginia,

And if you were one of the families affected? How big a deal would that be to you? Would you be upset to find out there was no reason, health or scientific, for the loss of your job?

not because the facilities were old and it was discovered people were getting sick and dying or anything - nope, they did it because they hate miners. Got it.

We really can't stick to the issue and keep away from your pet peeve about coal mining, can we?

 

[The T]

in the 14 counties where the biggest coal mining operations are located residents reported higher rates of cardiopulmonary disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, hypertension, diabetes, and lung and kidney disease. In each of those counties, mining topped 4 million tons of coal a year.

Yeah, we know about COAL MINING hazards. This is coal burning Power Plants. Pulmonary Silicosis or 'Black Lung' has been known about for 300 years. And? This is irrelevant to the discussion. Much of these problems have also been reduced with proper and REASONABLE safety equipment and procedures.

"Residents of coal mining communities have long complained of impaired health. This study substantiates their claims. Those residents are at an increased risk of developing chronic heart, lung and kidney diseases," said Dr. Michael Hendryx, associate director of the Institute for Health Policy Research in West Virginia University's Department of Community Medicine and lead author of the study."

Without direct cause this is just context. If you eat food, some day you will die.



"He who asserts, must prove." Socrates. I don''t suspect there are doctors reports that can say unequivocally all these maladies are "directly related to inhalation of coal smoke from these facilities", do they?

So okay. Ya got us. The EPA and Obama conspired to put 100 people out of work in W. Virginia,

And if you were one of the families affected? How big a deal would that be to you? Would you be upset to find out there was no reason, health or scientific, for the loss of your job?

not because the facilities were old and it was discovered people were getting sick and dying or anything - nope, they did it because they hate miners. Got it.

We really can't stick to the issue and keep away from your pet peeve about coal mining, can we?

Note how some backtrak and pretend we are living in conditions 200-300 years ago? And they call themselves progressives?

 

[Big Fitz]

Funny, when I asked a right winger how many babies born with birth defects are acceptable, the right winger said, well, if we want jobs, some things are unavoidable.

So I asked the right winger how many of their kids would they let have a birth defect to help the country and they said "None".

how many bugs or rat feces is tolerable in your can of beans?

Defect Levels Handbook

I don't have a problem with reasonable safety regs on any industry. It keeps me healthy happy and hale. What I have a problem is when people want levels of regulation with NO DISCERNABLE IMPROVEMENT over the previous standard with increased costs.

You want pure air and water? Live in a biosphere and drink distilled water. Don't live on Earth.

 

[Big Fitz]

in the 14 counties where the biggest coal mining operations are located residents reported higher rates of cardiopulmonary disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, hypertension, diabetes, and lung and kidney disease. In each of those counties, mining topped 4 million tons of coal a year.

Yeah, we know about COAL MINING hazards. This is coal burning Power Plants. Pulmonary Silicosis or 'Black Lung' has been known about for 300 years. And? This is irrelevant to the discussion. Much of these problems have also been reduced with proper and REASONABLE safety equipment and procedures.



Without direct cause this is just context. If you eat food, some day you will die.



"He who asserts, must prove." Socrates. I don''t suspect there are doctors reports that can say unequivocally all these maladies are "directly related to inhalation of coal smoke from these facilities", do they?



And if you were one of the families affected? How big a deal would that be to you? Would you be upset to find out there was no reason, health or scientific, for the loss of your job?

not because the facilities were old and it was discovered people were getting sick and dying or anything - nope, they did it because they hate miners. Got it.

We really can't stick to the issue and keep away from your pet peeve about coal mining, can we?

Note how some backtrak and pretend we are living in conditions 200-300 years ago? And they call themselves progressives?

The beginning of the Progressive Era was in 1912 under Wilson with roots 19 years before in the panic of 1893. It is ending, rapidly under Obama 100 years later. Their pinnacle was in 1962. Then they went too far, and now the pendulum of culture and history is sweeping them away, just the same way they swept away the Guilded age that ran from 1820 to 1912.

Interesting. The sinking of the Titanic really is the beginning of the death knell for that era with the loss of so many rich people as well as the election of Woodrow Wilson.

 

[rdean]

Funny, when I asked a right winger how many babies born with birth defects are acceptable, the right winger said, well, if we want jobs, some things are unavoidable.

So I asked the right winger how many of their kids would they let have a birth defect to help the country and they said "None".

how many bugs or rat feces is tolerable in your can of beans?

Defect Levels Handbook

I don't have a problem with reasonable safety regs on any industry. It keeps me healthy happy and hale. What I have a problem is when people want levels of regulation with NO DISCERNABLE IMPROVEMENT over the previous standard with increased costs.

You want pure air and water? Live in a biosphere and drink distilled water. Don't live on Earth.

Hmmm, you can prove that right? Because you're a "scientist"? Oh, right wingers don't like science. I forgot. Then how do they "prove" things? Short answer? "They don't".

 

[The T]

Funny, when I asked a right winger how many babies born with birth defects are acceptable, the right winger said, well, if we want jobs, some things are unavoidable.

So I asked the right winger how many of their kids would they let have a birth defect to help the country and they said "None".

how many bugs or rat feces is tolerable in your can of beans?

Defect Levels Handbook

I don't have a problem with reasonable safety regs on any industry. It keeps me healthy happy and hale. What I have a problem is when people want levels of regulation with NO DISCERNABLE IMPROVEMENT over the previous standard with increased costs.

You want pure air and water? Live in a biosphere and drink distilled water. Don't live on Earth.

Let us hope deany ceases eating. leaves more for me.

 

[Big Fitz]

Funny, when I asked a right winger how many babies born with birth defects are acceptable, the right winger said, well, if we want jobs, some things are unavoidable.

So I asked the right winger how many of their kids would they let have a birth defect to help the country and they said "None".

how many bugs or rat feces is tolerable in your can of beans?

Defect Levels Handbook

I don't have a problem with reasonable safety regs on any industry. It keeps me healthy happy and hale. What I have a problem is when people want levels of regulation with NO DISCERNABLE IMPROVEMENT over the previous standard with increased costs.

You want pure air and water? Live in a biosphere and drink distilled water. Don't live on Earth.

Hmmm, you can prove that right? Because you're a "scientist"? Oh, right wingers don't like science. I forgot. Then how do they "prove" things? Short answer? "They don't".

ahhh, the 'proving a negative argument'. Nice try, Hairnet.

No, I'm saying that if someone wants to change the standards, they must PROVE there is both a need and benefit for it that outweighs the cost.

Now get back to your fries. You've hungry liberal drones waiting.

 

[sealybobo]

Congrats Repubicans. While you argue for oil and coal, China is building high speed rail all over china. It is saving them billions in oil and coal, not to mention it is a eco friendly solution.

But the GOP don't want high speed rail. They want to drill baby drill! I can understand the oil companies wanting to stick with oil and of course the people that work for coal companies are pro coal, but most Americans need to understand the oil and coal advocates are going to fight alternative evergy every step of the way.

If it means losing the coal plant vote, so be it.

But I would think if they were union coal plants, they will probably still vote Democratic. They should if they value the amount they make and the safety they enjoy in those mines.

And any non union coal miners can't possibly be happy with their work conditions.

 

[Big Fitz]

a

Congrats Repubicans. While you argue for oil and coal, China is building high speed rail all over china. It is saving them billions in oil and coal, not to mention it is a eco friendly solution.

But the GOP don't want high speed rail. They want to drill baby drill! I can understand the oil companies wanting to stick with oil and of course the people that work for coal companies are pro coal, but most Americans need to understand the oil and coal advocates are going to fight alternative evergy every step of the way.

If it means losing the coal plant vote, so be it.

But I would think if they were union coal plants, they will probably still vote Democratic. They should if they value the amount they make and the safety they enjoy in those mines.

And any non union coal miners can't possibly be happy with their work conditions.

yes... leading the way by updating 19th century technology.



I watched Stephen Fry's America last night. One point he made was that you cannot SEE all the lower 48 without a car. Period. It's just too massive.