Thanks Barack 3 West Virginia Coal Plants to Close

[The T]

how many bugs or rat feces is tolerable in your can of beans?

Defect Levels Handbook

I don't have a problem with reasonable safety regs on any industry. It keeps me healthy happy and hale. What I have a problem is when people want levels of regulation with NO DISCERNABLE IMPROVEMENT over the previous standard with increased costs.

You want pure air and water? Live in a biosphere and drink distilled water. Don't live on Earth.

Hmmm, you can prove that right? Because you're a "scientist"? Oh, right wingers don't like science. I forgot. Then how do they "prove" things? Short answer? "They don't".

ahhh, the 'proving a negative argument'. Nice try, Hairnet.

No, I'm saying that if someone wants to change the standards, they must PROVE there is both a need and benefit for it that outweighs the cost.

Now get back to your fries. You've hungry liberal drones waiting.

 

[Big Fitz]

Hmmm, you can prove that right? Because you're a "scientist"? Oh, right wingers don't like science. I forgot. Then how do they "prove" things? Short answer? "They don't".

ahhh, the 'proving a negative argument'. Nice try, Hairnet.

No, I'm saying that if someone wants to change the standards, they must PROVE there is both a need and benefit for it that outweighs the cost.

Now get back to your fries. You've hungry liberal drones waiting.

Come on T... It's Hairnet, man!

He worships proffesors and public ed so much but so easilly shown a liar.... he's gotta be university food service swooning over his unrequited loves with their tweeds, elbow patches, balding ponytails and lab coats hiding the crumbling vestages of 1960's male virility!

yes indeed! Those were the salad days we should live again!!

 

[tinydancer]

Fortunately, The Institute for Justice (donate today...I do!) is on the case.

Sackett v. EPA Amicus Release: 10-3-2011 | The Institute for Justice

This one took my breath away.

Such an abuse of power. I've got more than one up my sleeve here being a true soul fighting for water rights for over 4 decades since Grassy Narrows.

This abuse of power and please understand I track Monsanto/Gates as well, not a shrinking violet as you can tell.

I am stunned to witness young children on the net telling people mercury laden bulbs are a cool thing. Help the planet with mercury going into land fills.

Obviously no one has learned history. My heart breaks.

Oh! but if you read the instruction label, they aren't SUPPOSED to go in a landfill! You have to pay to put them in a special facility!

Fuck that shit. Do you know a SINGLE person who will when that thing pops and the ballast starts to fry? FUCK no! It's going in the dumpster outside, NOW.

I know dear heart. Thats when my brain starts to scream and I'm running around at minus 30 just fucking losing it that this could even be a consideration.

 

[Fang]

These old plants need to be retired.

Government Motors should have been allowed to fail. Since when does the Government decide who fails and who doesn't? I guess that's the socialist/liberal way.

 

[The T]

These old plants need to be retired.

Government Motors should have been allowed to fail. Since when does the Government decide who fails and who doesn't? I guess that's the socialist/liberal way.

Since Government decided it could pick winners and losers dependent upon whom has the strongest support of politicians.

 

[The T]

ahhh, the 'proving a negative argument'. Nice try, Hairnet.

No, I'm saying that if someone wants to change the standards, they must PROVE there is both a need and benefit for it that outweighs the cost.

Now get back to your fries. You've hungry liberal drones waiting.

Come on T... It's Hairnet, man!

He worships proffesors and public ed so much but so easilly shown a liar.... he's gotta be university food service swooning over his unrequited loves with their tweeds, elbow patches, balding ponytails and lab coats hiding the crumbling vestages of 1960's male virility!

yes indeed! Those were the salad days we should live again!!

yeah...who am I to call him on his hypocrisy?

 

[Big Fitz]

These old plants need to be retired.

Government Motors should have been allowed to fail. Since when does the Government decide who fails and who doesn't? I guess that's the socialist/liberal way.

Since Government decided it could pick winners and losers dependent upon whom has the strongest support of politicians.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4"]Glenn Beck presents the Obama National Anthem - YouTube[/ame]

Detonation of liberals brains in:

3...
2...
1...

 

[Big Fitz]

and something to piss off EdtheCretin to a frothing screaming mess.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N08ZIsSPKuo]Barack the Magic Negro - Paul Shanklin - YouTube[/ame]

ahem... Rush and Paul Shanklin. ::uts up splash guard:::

 

[The T]

and something to piss off EdtheCretin to a frothing screaming mess.

Barack the Magic Negro - Paul Shanklin - YouTube

ahem... Rush and Paul Shanklin. ::uts up splash guard:::

 

[bripat9643]

Well Jeez dude, if you don't like the EPA data and call the AMA data bogus, you don't leave much to post. The state agencies (whom are influenced by what largest industry in W. Va?) even admit that
"
in the 14 counties where the biggest coal mining operations are located residents reported higher rates of cardiopulmonary disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, hypertension, diabetes, and lung and kidney disease. In each of those counties, mining topped 4 million tons of coal a year.

"Residents of coal mining communities have long complained of impaired health. This study substantiates their claims. Those residents are at an increased risk of developing chronic heart, lung and kidney diseases," said Dr. Michael Hendryx, associate director of the Institute for Health Policy Research in West Virginia University's Department of Community Medicine and lead author of the study."

But of course, they're owned by local business so they're doing the usual "Of course it COULD just all be a really big coincidence!" thing. They like their jobs.

So okay. Ya got us. The EPA and Obama conspired to put 100 people out of work in W. Virginia, not because the facilities were old and it was discovered people were getting sick and dying or anything - nope, they did it because they hate miners. Yeah that makes sense. No "It's bad because it happened under Obama!" going on here! Got it.

We're discussing coal fired power plants here, not coal mining. The EPA claims that coal fired power plants are causing illness. I have yet to see any evidence that such is the case.

 

[bripat9643]

Funny, when I asked a right winger how many babies born with birth defects are acceptable, the right winger said, well, if we want jobs, some things are unavoidable.

So I asked the right winger how many of their kids would they let have a birth defect to help the country and they said "None".

No one has ever proved that coal fired power plants have ever caused a single birth defect.

Note, Eco-fascists aren't about to tell people to stop eating fish, but that is the biggest single source of mercury in the human body. If Mercury causes birth defects, then why aren't hypocrites like you campaigning against eating fish? When will the EPA make fishing in the ocean illegal?

How many birth defects are acceptable?

 

[Cowman]

My goodness, you leftists sure an emotional lot, aren't you?

Someday you'll grow up and realize that more government isn't the solution to every problem.

Well, maybe you will.

Oh I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that 90% of the threads on this board were of Liberals bitching and whining. Sure seems like conservatives bitching and whining to me(I'll challenge you to a thread count comparison). Every little thing Obama does, it's a grave injury for your feeble souls.

But thanks for admitting you didn't have a fucking point, you were just flapping your gums with no reasoning behind it... no stalwart point you were trying to make about the dismantling of the FDA... because you know it fucking more saves lives than without.

You keep arguing against things I haven't said.

Chicks think you're hot for that. No, really.

Retard.

Well, you basically did say the things I've said you've said... but now you're backing out on it because you realize you got yourself in a bind. You realized that mentioning people who still get sick despite the FDA regulations, under the guise that doing away with them would be no different then before the FDA was put in place(because you know, people still get sick!), is profoundly stupid.

I mean it's either that or you were just talking to talk, and didn't have a point. You were just arguing for the sake of arguing and didn't have a position. That's probably why you keep fucking deflecting instead of telling me what your point was.

 

[DaGoose]

Sez it all.

Ya...that "sez it all", alright. You guys are really fucking stupid. Let me rephrase it so your third grade mentalities can understand it.

My power plant is doing GREAT even with the EPA regulations. Why would that be since we're all under the same regulations? Please give me your expert opinions.

UH, when did anyone claim the regulations would shut down all power plants? Obviously, newer ones with advanced scrubbers can meat the regulations. However, it's only a matter of time until your fuhrer lowers the limit on Mercury again and then your plant will be on the block.

I will love watching your bleating in the forum when that occurs.

Wow. You're really showing your ignorance of the power industry.

First off.....NO coal fired power plants older than 5 years were built with ANY kind of scubbers, let alone "advanced" scrubbers. (In fact, we have NO scrubbers and we're meeting EPA regulations.)

Nearly EVERY plant in the ENTIRE NATION had to install some type of polution controls to meet EPA giudelines. However, many older plants that were expensive to run anyhow could not install them and still compete in the deregulated marketplace. They could not sell a megawatt as cheap as what others could due to their old equipment. Hence, nobody would buy their product.

We are ALL on a level playing field as far as regulations go. And with that being the case only the old plants built in the teens, 40's and 50's (as outlined in your OP) simply were not efficient enough to compete. The reason for that is the high O&M costs.

So now you can see why those plants were shut down. It is deregulation and their inability to compete in an open market. Something I thought YOU would understand, but apparently not.



Class dismissed.

 

[bripat9643]

UH, when did anyone claim the regulations would shut down all power plants? Obviously, newer ones with advanced scrubbers can meat the regulations. However, it's only a matter of time until your fuhrer lowers the limit on Mercury again and then your plant will be on the block.

I will love watching your bleating in the forum when that occurs.

Wow. You're really showing your ignorance of the power industry.

First off.....NO coal fired power plants older than 5 years were built with ANY kind of scubbers, let alone "advanced" scrubbers. (In fact, we have NO scrubbers and we're meeting EPA regulations.)

Wrong.

Existing U.S. Coal Plants - SourceWatch

In 1970, the U.S. Congress passed the Clean Air Act, which regulated the emission of sulfur dioxide (SO2), among other forms of pollution. SO2 contributes strongly to acid rain, and causes or exacerbates respiratory illnesses. However, the legislation allowed for exemptions for older power plants. This legislation has been strengthened since then: in 1977, the New Source Review increased compliance by states, while the EPA's Clean Air Interstate Rule, passed in 2005, requires a 57% cut in U.S. SO2 emissions by 2015. (Roughly 60% of U.S. SO2 emissions come from coal-fired power plants.) Especially since 2005, many utilities have begun attaching SO2 scrubbers to their coal-fired generating stations. However, many plants still do not have adequate - or even any - SO2 controls.[25][26][27]

Nearly EVERY plant in the ENTIRE NATION had to install some type of polution controls to meet EPA giudelines. However, many older plants that were expensive to run anyhow could not install them and still compete in the deregulated marketplace. They could not sell a megawatt as cheap as what others could due to their old equipment. Hence, nobody would buy their product.

We are ALL on a level playing field as far as regulations go. And with that being the case only the old plants built in the teens, 40's and 50's (as outlined in your OP) simply were not efficient enough to compete. The reason for that is the high O&M costs.

They were efficient enough before the EPA imposed new regulations. The fact that you're on a "level playing field" is irrelevant. The EPA moved the field.

So now you can see why those plants were shut down. It is deregulation and their inability to compete in an open market. Something I thought YOU would understand, but apparently not.

Class dismissed.

"Deregulation?" Are you serious?

Here is the reason they are shut down: because the EPA imposed draconian regulations. The fact that some plants meet the regulations is relevant only to morons.

 

[Cowman]

UH, when did anyone claim the regulations would shut down all power plants? Obviously, newer ones with advanced scrubbers can meat the regulations. However, it's only a matter of time until your fuhrer lowers the limit on Mercury again and then your plant will be on the block.

I will love watching your bleating in the forum when that occurs.

Wow. You're really showing your ignorance of the power industry.

First off.....NO coal fired power plants older than 5 years were built with ANY kind of scubbers, let alone "advanced" scrubbers. (In fact, we have NO scrubbers and we're meeting EPA regulations.)

Wrong.

Existing U.S. Coal Plants - SourceWatch

Nearly EVERY plant in the ENTIRE NATION had to install some type of polution controls to meet EPA giudelines. However, many older plants that were expensive to run anyhow could not install them and still compete in the deregulated marketplace. They could not sell a megawatt as cheap as what others could due to their old equipment. Hence, nobody would buy their product.

We are ALL on a level playing field as far as regulations go. And with that being the case only the old plants built in the teens, 40's and 50's (as outlined in your OP) simply were not efficient enough to compete. The reason for that is the high O&M costs.

They were efficient enough before the EPA imposed new regulations. The fact that you're on a "level playing field" is irrelevant. The EPA moved the field.

So now you can see why those plants were shut down. It is deregulation and their inability to compete in an open market. Something I thought YOU would understand, but apparently not.

Class dismissed.

"Deregulation?" Are you serious?

Here is the reason they are shut down: because the EPA imposed draconian regulations. The fact that some plants meet the regulations is relevant only to morons.

Please tell me how dozens of tons of mercury being put into the air is a draconian regulation?

You fucking conservatives can't stop talking about the amount of mercury in a compact fluorescent lights, but you think dozens and dozens of tons of mercury being put into the atmosphere by coal plants is no big deal?

A real help to our nation you are. I think I'm going to call you Freddie Mercury Jr. from now on.

 

[bripat9643]

Please tell me how dozens of tons of mercury being put into the air is a draconian regulation?

You fucking conservatives can't stop talking about the amount of mercury in a compact fluorescent lights, but you think dozens and dozens of tons of mercury being put into the atmosphere by coal plants is no big deal?

A real help to our nation you are. I think I'm going to call you Freddie Mercury Jr. from now on.

All US coal fired power plants put about 44 tons of Mercury into the environment. Forest fires in the US alone put 45 tons of Mercury into the environment. Cremation of human remains puts another 25 tons into the environment. Chinese power plants put over 400 tons of mercury into the environment. Natural sources such as volcanoes an undersea vents put 10,000 tons of Mercury into the environment.

How much of an effect do you suppose the puny reductions in Mercury mandated by the EPA are going to make in the amount of Mercury in the environment? The amount won't even be measurable.

Meanwhile, these regulations are going to double the price of electricity. How is that helping the children of poor families? The fact is the EPA is kicking poor children in the gonads. If you defend these regulations, you are crapping on poor children.

 

[Cowman]

Please tell me how dozens of tons of mercury being put into the air is a draconian regulation?

You fucking conservatives can't stop talking about the amount of mercury in a compact fluorescent lights, but you think dozens and dozens of tons of mercury being put into the atmosphere by coal plants is no big deal?

A real help to our nation you are. I think I'm going to call you Freddie Mercury Jr. from now on.

All US coal fired power plants put about 44 tons of Mercury into the environment. Forest fires in the US alone put 45 tons of Mercury into the environment. Cremation of human remains puts another 25 tons into the environment. Chinese power plants put over 400 tons of mercury into the environment. Natural sources such as volcanoes an undersea vents put 10,000 tons of Mercury into the environment.

How much of an effect do you suppose the puny reductions in Mercury mandated by the EPA are going to make in the amount of Mercury in the environment? The amount won't even be measurable.

Meanwhile, these regulations are going to double the price of electricity. How is that helping the children of poor families? The fact is the EPA is kicking poor children in the gonads. If you defend these regulations, you are crapping on poor children.

Ahh... Freddie Mercury Jr... you have embraced the Mercury!

Also hey wait, since when do you give a shit about poor children? I thought you were a conservative? Poor Children are first on your chopping block!

 

[DaGoose]

Wow. You're really showing your ignorance of the power industry.

First off.....NO coal fired power plants older than 5 years were built with ANY kind of scubbers, let alone "advanced" scrubbers. (In fact, we have NO scrubbers and we're meeting EPA regulations.)

Wrong.

Existing U.S. Coal Plants - SourceWatch





They were efficient enough before the EPA imposed new regulations. The fact that you're on a "level playing field" is irrelevant. The EPA moved the field.

So now you can see why those plants were shut down. It is deregulation and their inability to compete in an open market. Something I thought YOU would understand, but apparently not.

Class dismissed.

"Deregulation?" Are you serious?

Here is the reason they are shut down: because the EPA imposed draconian regulations. The fact that some plants meet the regulations is relevant only to morons.

Please tell me how dozens of tons of mercury being put into the air is a draconian regulation?

You fucking conservatives can't stop talking about the amount of mercury in a compact fluorescent lights, but you think dozens and dozens of tons of mercury being put into the atmosphere by coal plants is no big deal?

A real help to our nation you are. I think I'm going to call you Freddie Mercury Jr. from now on.

And here's a newsflash for "Bripat the Expert".

YOU DON'T NEED SCRUBBERS TO REMOVE MERCURY. In fact, scrubbers are made mostly to remove SO2, not mercury (though they CAN capture some mercury). I'm suprised the "genious" didn't know that.

We built scrubbers years ago and then tore them down. We now inject activated carbon (ACI) which we installed to reduce our mercury output.

The funny thing is that an ACI system can be installed on any power plant, even the OLD plants that were only being used for peak times in the OP.

So if anyone tries to say they had to shut down due to EPA regs, it's only because they could not compete in the first place.

Class dismissed.

 

[DaGoose]

UH, when did anyone claim the regulations would shut down all power plants? Obviously, newer ones with advanced scrubbers can meat the regulations. However, it's only a matter of time until your fuhrer lowers the limit on Mercury again and then your plant will be on the block.

I will love watching your bleating in the forum when that occurs.

Wow. You're really showing your ignorance of the power industry.

First off.....NO coal fired power plants older than 5 years were built with ANY kind of scubbers, let alone "advanced" scrubbers. (In fact, we have NO scrubbers and we're meeting EPA regulations.)

Wrong.

Existing U.S. Coal Plants - SourceWatch

Nearly EVERY plant in the ENTIRE NATION had to install some type of polution controls to meet EPA giudelines. However, many older plants that were expensive to run anyhow could not install them and still compete in the deregulated marketplace. They could not sell a megawatt as cheap as what others could due to their old equipment. Hence, nobody would buy their product.

We are ALL on a level playing field as far as regulations go. And with that being the case only the old plants built in the teens, 40's and 50's (as outlined in your OP) simply were not efficient enough to compete. The reason for that is the high O&M costs.

They were efficient enough before the EPA imposed new regulations. The fact that you're on a "level playing field" is irrelevant. The EPA moved the field.

So now you can see why those plants were shut down. It is deregulation and their inability to compete in an open market. Something I thought YOU would understand, but apparently not.

Class dismissed.

"Deregulation?" Are you serious?

Here is the reason they are shut down: because the EPA imposed draconian regulations. The fact that some plants meet the regulations is relevant only to morons.

I believe your plants in the OP met every one of the below criteria.....

Many plants without this pollution-control equipment will soon be retired due to their age and inefficiency. A CAP review found that utilities plan to shut down at least 80 of these aging units—closures announced before the EPA proposed the air toxics reduction rules. These plants are 52 years old on average, with the oldest unit built during World War II. Many of these units have little or no pollution controls, are relatively small, and utilized infrequently.

Mercury Falling: Many Power Plants Already Have Equipment to Slash Mercury, Toxic Contamination

The plants in your OP were ALL more than 50 years old (with the oldest nearly 100 years old!!), they are small and used infrequently due to the high cost of running them (even without pollution controls). If they were newer and/or larger they could EASILY have been fitted with ACI controls and continued to run.

 

[bripat9643]

Ahh... Freddie Mercury Jr... you have embraced the Mercury!

Also hey wait, since when do you give a shit about poor children? I thought you were a conservative? Poor Children are first on your chopping block!

One thing we know for sure: you don't give a shit about poor children. You proved it in this thread.