Thanksgiving

[syrenn]

Uh, no. While pagans are technically heathens, not all heathens are pagans, and thus Indians are not pagans. Pagan/heathen are not interchangeable across the board.

This is just silly, and really over the top ignorant.

and how do you know what the pilgrims thought about their half naked brown skied saviors? puritans were pretty damn arrogant, close minded and ignorant back then.

and Indians had harvest festivals.....still do.

Yes, and they also have Thanksgiving. They aren't one and the same.

I don't care or know what pilgrims thought. I'm telling you that although Indians might be considered "heathen", "paganism" is an actual religion or set of practices completely separated from our country's native culture. Indians have never observed pagan rituals.

pagan
 
pa·gan
   [pey-guhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks. Synonyms: polytheist.
2.
a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, gentile; idolator; nonbeliever.
3.
an irreligious or hedonistic person.
4.
a person deemed savage or uncivilized and morally deficient.

Pagan | Define Pagan at Dictionary.com

 

[koshergrl]

Syrenn, honey, when you say it's a PAGAN holiday, you are specifically referring to paganism. Not to "every religion but Christianity".

I assure you, Indians did not, and do not, engage in PAGAN harvest festivals and never have.

 

[syrenn]

Syrenn, honey, when you say it's a PAGAN holiday, you are specifically referring to paganism. Not to "every religion but Christianity".

I assure you, Indians did not, and do not, engage in PAGAN harvest festivals and never have.

KG honey.... where do i say the Indians... had PAGAN, as in paganism, holidays?

 

[koshergrl]

So you agree that Thanksgiving in the US is not the offshoot of a pagan holiday.

Correctomundo.

 

[syrenn]

So you agree that Thanksgiving in the US is not the offshoot of a pagan holiday.

Correctomundo.

no... i don't agree to that at all..... The American holiday IS an offshoot of harvest festivals.... a pagan holiday.

i said.... were did i say the indians were having a pagan as in paganism...holiday? They only person who suggests that is you KG.


as to the puritians.... they hated everything.... EVERYTHING..... but were so damn thankful for their first bountiful harvest thanks to the indians un grateful louts that they were...... they decided to have a celebration.

harvest festivals/celebrations... are universal to every culture.... not religion. The pagans all over europe celebrated harvest..... so the pilgrans got it from them.

 

[koshergrl]

Fiddlesticks.

Our Thanksgiving festival is very distinctly attributed to the first "thanksgiving" which was a harvest celebration held with Indians.

So how you can jump from that to saying it's an offshoot of a PAGAN holiday, I don't know.

And every harvest festival/celebration is very definitely associated with religion. There were no non-denominational "harvest festivals" until the anti-Christian loons determined that there is no religious connotation to be associated with them.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Our Thanksgiving holiday season is the development of several traditions, religious and secular, not just one. Each American group will celebrate it in their own way. Our Native Americans will probably celebrate it by hanging effigies of the Pilgrims, setting them on fire, then eating the Pilgrims' food, which is what they should have done in the first place.

 

[koshergrl]

The Indians I know make a big flipping turkey and watch football just like everybody else. The only difference is they also have a big meal at the Longhouse.

 

[Connery]

Fiddlesticks.

Our Thanksgiving festival is very distinctly attributed to the first "thanksgiving" which was a harvest celebration held with Indians.

So how you can jump from that to saying it's an offshoot of a PAGAN holiday, I don't know.

And every harvest festival/celebration is very definitely associated with religion. There were no non-denominational "harvest festivals" until the anti-Christian loons determined that there is no religious connotation to be associated with them.

No...The US Constitution is controlling these matters pursuant to the 1st Amendment.

 

[Freemason9]

it is not a christian holiday nut case.

?????

Yeah, I think it is.

It's one of the few paid holidays American workers get, and if we have to profess to some God to get it, well then that's fine . . .

so STFU

 

[koshergrl]

You don't have to profess to some God.

 

[Freemason9]

You don't have to profess to some God.

Thanks for allowing me that "freedom," koshergirl . . .

 

[koshergrl]

I don't allow it, you've always had it.

Despite the assertions of SOME that to admit that Thanksgiving was established in the US as a holiday to give thanks to God is somehow limiting the ability of modern day non-Christians to enjoy it.

 

[koshergrl]

And because you love Rush:

The Real Story of Thanksgiving:

"The original contract the Pilgrims had entered into with their merchant-sponsors in London called for everything they produced to go into a common store, and each member of the community was entitled to one common share." It was a commune. It was socialism. "All of the land they cleared and the houses they built belonged to the community as well," not to the individuals who built them.
"Bradford, who had become the new governor of the colony, recognized that this form of collectivism was as costly and destructive to the Pilgrims as that first harsh winter, which had taken so many lives. He decided to take bold action. Bradford assigned a plot of land to each family to work and manage." They could do with it whatever they wanted. He essentially turned loose the free market on 'em. "Long before Karl Marx was even born, the Pilgrims had discovered and experimented with what could only be described as socialism." And they found that it didn't work. "

....

"What Bradford wrote about this social experiment should be in every schoolchild's history lesson. 'The experience that we had in this common course and condition,' Bradford wrote. 'The experience that we had in this common course and condition tried sundry years... that by taking away property, and bringing community into a common wealth, would make them happy and flourishing -- as if they were wiser than God. ... For this community [so far as it was] was found to breed much confusion and discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For young men that were most able and fit for labor and service did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men's wives and children without any recompense.'"
What he was saying was, they found that people could not expect to do their best work without any incentive. So what did they try next? Free enterprise. "Every family was assigned its own plot of land to work and permitted to market its own crops and products. And what was the result? 'This had very good success,' wrote Bradford, 'for it made all hands industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been.'"
They had miraculous results. In no time they found they had more food than they could eat themselves. So they set up trading posts. They exchanged goods with the Indians. The profits allowed them to pay off the people that sponsored their trip in London. The success and the prosperity of the Plymouth settlement attracted more Europeans, began what became known as the great Puritan migration.
And they shared their bounty with the Indians. Actually, they sold some of it to 'em. The true story of Thanksgiving is how socialism failed. With all the great expectations and high hopes, it failed. And self-reliance, rugged individualism, free enterprise, whatever you call it, resulted in prosperity that they never dreamed of."

The true story of Thanksgiving.

You're welcome.

The Real Story of Thanksgiving - The Rush Limbaugh Show

 

[koshergrl]

No wonder the lefties sneer at it. It celebrates the two things they loathe... free enterprise, and God. Yuck!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Only one of the threads of Thanksgiving. Pilgrims don't speak for all Americans any more than the folk harvests and thanksgiving to the earth speak for all Americans.

fine... definition of god....

if all three versions of god go...

then its not a "christian" holiday now is it?

Easter is a christian holiday..... by, for, about, revolving around.... christian what ever.

Again Thanksgiving day was created BY CHRISTIANS to give thanks to God.

No But George Washington and the U.S. Congress sure and the hell did.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

fine... definition of god....

if all three versions of god go...

then its not a "christian" holiday now is it?

Easter is a christian holiday..... by, for, about, revolving around.... christian what ever.

Again Thanksgiving day was created BY CHRISTIANS to give thanks to God.

Not to burst your bubble..

But Thanksgiving, like Christmas, Easter and Halloween grew out of pagan holidays

No it didn't it was specifically picked to give thanks to God.
Just ask George Washing and the U.S. Congress

 

[koshergrl]

And Abe Lincoln.
And the pilgrims themselves.

In this country, there were no pagan fall holidays. Root feast is in the spring.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Not to burst your bubble..

But Thanksgiving, like Christmas, Easter and Halloween grew out of pagan holidays

No, in this country, Thanksgiving was not an offshoot of a pagan festival. It was a day set aside specifically to give thanks to God.

Did pagans also celebrate in the fall? Sure. They also celebrated in the summer, and in the winter, and in the spring. Wow, that means that all our holidays must be attributed to pagans!

People have always held celebrations, big whoop. But it is tiresome how the anti-Christian crowd insists on ruining EVERY SINGLE HOLIDAY with their anti-Christian whine.

sure... in this country.

thanksgiving is nothing more then a harvest festival... and IS an off shoot of pagan rituals.

easter is not pagan... its christian.

Are you still arguing about thi, even after I showed you George Washington proclamation at the request of the U.S. Congress to have a date too give thanks to God.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

As a matter of custom Thanksgiving may be a Christian holiday, as a matter of law it is not.

I guess that's why the founders voted to have all those theists and deists to be the congressional chaplains
No wait All the Chaplains in the senate have been of the Christian faith
Chaplain of the United States Senate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lets look at the house.
Chaplain of the United States House of Representatives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nope all of the Christian faith.
Now with all the founders being theists or deists as you have said You would have had at least ONE theists or deists as a Congressional Chaplain in the senate or house.

No once again you are sucking wind.

"The House and Senate elect the chaplains as individuals and not as representatives of any religious body or denominational entity." Further, there have been opening prayer services held in the Muslim and Hindu tradition amongst others.

bigrebnc1775, you have been avoiding me so I took the liberty of reposting my material here.

I haven't been avoiding you, because it's irrelevant what you posted Law has nothing to do with the founders picking a day to give thanks to God