The 50 most developed countries in the world and Universal Healthcare.

[depotoo]

We will go bankrupt, dear, with it.

You guys scream over $5 billion for border security, yet see no problem with this-

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Medicare for All’ Would Cost $32.6 Trillion Over 10 Years, Study Says

How much is it going to cost the American people if we do not have a universal Healthcare program?

 

[Richard-H]

You guys scream over $5 billion for border security, yet see no problem with this-

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Medicare for All’ Would Cost $32.6 Trillion Over 10 Years, Study Says

How much is it going to cost the American people if we do not have a universal Healthcare program?

Depends. How much are leftist asswipes going to insist on stealing and redistributing?

So, you're saying that if we do not have medicare for all healthcare will be free?

Before you start whining about the cost of medicare for all, try finding out how much Americans will pay for healthcare over the same period if we do not have medicare for all.

My guess is that it will cost a whole hell of a lot more that medicare for all will.

 

[Richard-H]

We will go bankrupt, dear, with it.

You guys scream over $5 billion for border security, yet see no problem with this-

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Medicare for All’ Would Cost $32.6 Trillion Over 10 Years, Study Says

How much is it going to cost the American people if we do not have a universal Healthcare program?

Many, many Americans are already going bankrupt without it.

 

[depotoo]

Healthcare spending in 2017 was $1.83 trillion. Almost half of what the per year costs for medicare for all would be.

You guys scream over $5 billion for border security, yet see no problem with this-

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Medicare for All’ Would Cost $32.6 Trillion Over 10 Years, Study Says

How much is it going to cost the American people if we do not have a universal Healthcare program?

Depends. How much are leftist asswipes going to insist on stealing and redistributing?

So, you're saying that if we do not have medicare for all healthcare will be free?

Before you start whining about the cost of medicare for all, try finding out how much Americans will pay for healthcare over the same period if we do not have medicare for all.

My guess is that it will cost a whole hell of a lot more that medicare for all will.

 

[U2Edge]

Being able to talk to doctors and healthcare providers and being given access to low cost quality food. That's how. Many people in low income areas don't have very good access to healthcare professionals or low cost high quality food options.

You cannot conflate the two. Some of our best hospitals are in questionable areas. People have access. In terms of nutrition it is on you. One can easily spend $5 on rice/beans vs. Big Mac and fries. People here choose to eat poorly. You are losing badly. Very badly. You are unprepared.

Its fact that the poor and lower class have lower life expectancies and share a much higher proportion of the nations obesity problem. Universal healthcare could help solve these problems among the poor and lower class and improve overall U.S. life expectancy.

Walk me through on why and how? Doctors do not prescribe diets.

People in the healthcare industry do and Universal Healthcare can bring that advice and those resources to the poor and lower class. Its part of the reason why the Europeans beat us in life expectancy. They take care of the their people at the bottom of the economic ladder.

They beat us by 1 year because they are smaller and eat healthier. My parents came from Europe. They never eat fast food, never eat anything with MSG, cook their own meals, shop at WholeFoods and take vitamins daily. My wife's mom is much younger, but looks much older, is obese, on a ton of meds and eats like crap. Just different lifestyles. Nothing to do with healthcare.

You're simply wrong.

Trying to extrapolate from your parents your wife's mother's experiences is not an accurate or objective way to bolster your viewpoint on this topic.

 

[U2Edge]

Being able to talk to doctors and healthcare providers and being given access to low cost quality food. That's how. Many people in low income areas don't have very good access to healthcare professionals or low cost high quality food options.

You cannot conflate the two. Some of our best hospitals are in questionable areas. People have access. In terms of nutrition it is on you. One can easily spend $5 on rice/beans vs. Big Mac and fries. People here choose to eat poorly. You are losing badly. Very badly. You are unprepared.

Its fact that the poor and lower class have lower life expectancies and share a much higher proportion of the nations obesity problem. Universal healthcare could help solve these problems among the poor and lower class and improve overall U.S. life expectancy.

Walk me through on why and how? Doctors do not prescribe diets.

People in the healthcare industry do and Universal Healthcare can bring that advice and those resources to the poor and lower class. Its part of the reason why the Europeans beat us in life expectancy. They take care of the their people at the bottom of the economic ladder.

You actually believe that poor people don't know eating junk food all day is bad for them? That drinking and smoking are bad for them? They are already continually bombarded with advice.

Low income areas in the United States often have poor access to nutritional food at low cost. Its not just about education, it also involves proximity, availability, travel, and cost.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You cannot conflate the two. Some of our best hospitals are in questionable areas. People have access. In terms of nutrition it is on you. One can easily spend $5 on rice/beans vs. Big Mac and fries. People here choose to eat poorly. You are losing badly. Very badly. You are unprepared.

Its fact that the poor and lower class have lower life expectancies and share a much higher proportion of the nations obesity problem. Universal healthcare could help solve these problems among the poor and lower class and improve overall U.S. life expectancy.

Walk me through on why and how? Doctors do not prescribe diets.

People in the healthcare industry do and Universal Healthcare can bring that advice and those resources to the poor and lower class. Its part of the reason why the Europeans beat us in life expectancy. They take care of the their people at the bottom of the economic ladder.

They beat us by 1 year because they are smaller and eat healthier. My parents came from Europe. They never eat fast food, never eat anything with MSG, cook their own meals, shop at WholeFoods and take vitamins daily. My wife's mom is much younger, but looks much older, is obese, on a ton of meds and eats like crap. Just different lifestyles. Nothing to do with healthcare.

You're simply wrong.

Trying to extrapolate from your parents your wife's mother's experiences is not an accurate or objective way to bolster your viewpoint on this topic.

You have been given fact after fact. Before you argue you need to educate yourself. You have lost all credibility and this debate. BTW if I debated your POV, I would have won. I recommend garnering an education.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

You cannot conflate the two. Some of our best hospitals are in questionable areas. People have access. In terms of nutrition it is on you. One can easily spend $5 on rice/beans vs. Big Mac and fries. People here choose to eat poorly. You are losing badly. Very badly. You are unprepared.

Its fact that the poor and lower class have lower life expectancies and share a much higher proportion of the nations obesity problem. Universal healthcare could help solve these problems among the poor and lower class and improve overall U.S. life expectancy.

Walk me through on why and how? Doctors do not prescribe diets.

People in the healthcare industry do and Universal Healthcare can bring that advice and those resources to the poor and lower class. Its part of the reason why the Europeans beat us in life expectancy. They take care of the their people at the bottom of the economic ladder.

You actually believe that poor people don't know eating junk food all day is bad for them? That drinking and smoking are bad for them? They are already continually bombarded with advice.

Low income areas in the United States often have poor access to nutritional food at low cost. Its not just about education, it also involves proximity, availability, travel, and cost.

That has nothing to do with Universal Healthcare. ZERO.

 

[U2Edge]

Automation right now is not taking care of the labor shortage in America. That's why we have the lowest unemployment rate in half a century and 7.3 million unfilled jobs. Most economist agree you need increased immigration in order to meet and stay at 3% growth rate for the economy per year. The United States is currently behind that rate.

Average growth in the economy per year has only been 1.9% on average since the year 2000. Technology has not improved economic growth. Economic growth was much higher on average back in the 90s and 80s.

No one wants economic growth solely so we can accommodate more people. We only want economic growth that improves our standard of living. What's the point if we just give all the new money to immigrants?

Its the opposite, the immigrants are the SOLUTION to achieving greater wealth, prosperity and power. Otherwise, you risk being a country with a declining work force and an aging retirement community. Population decline is a bad indicator for a country.

My parents are immigrants (legal). I am OK with immigrants if they come in legally. In terms of population decline, tell that to China.

China faces a terrible demographic time bomb because of their stupid one child policy. In 20 or 30 years, their working age population will be so small compared to the retired or non-working population that it will cause extreme economic hardship.

Or it will rightsize the country. You're just guessing.

Its called demography, a field of study on population and problems related to population. That is how I know this.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

No one wants economic growth solely so we can accommodate more people. We only want economic growth that improves our standard of living. What's the point if we just give all the new money to immigrants?

Its the opposite, the immigrants are the SOLUTION to achieving greater wealth, prosperity and power. Otherwise, you risk being a country with a declining work force and an aging retirement community. Population decline is a bad indicator for a country.

My parents are immigrants (legal). I am OK with immigrants if they come in legally. In terms of population decline, tell that to China.

China faces a terrible demographic time bomb because of their stupid one child policy. In 20 or 30 years, their working age population will be so small compared to the retired or non-working population that it will cause extreme economic hardship.

Or it will rightsize the country. You're just guessing.

Its called demography, a field of study on population and problems related to population. That is how I know this.

And? LOL

 

[U2Edge]

Automation right now is not taking care of the labor shortage in America. That's why we have the lowest unemployment rate in half a century and 7.3 million unfilled jobs. Most economist agree you need increased immigration in order to meet and stay at 3% growth rate for the economy per year. The United States is currently behind that rate.

Average growth in the economy per year has only been 1.9% on average since the year 2000. Technology has not improved economic growth. Economic growth was much higher on average back in the 90s and 80s.

No one wants economic growth solely so we can accommodate more people. We only want economic growth that improves our standard of living. What's the point if we just give all the new money to immigrants?

Its the opposite, the immigrants are the SOLUTION to achieving greater wealth, prosperity and power. Otherwise, you risk being a country with a declining work force and an aging retirement community. Population decline is a bad indicator for a country.

My parents are immigrants (legal). I am OK with immigrants if they come in legally. In terms of population decline, tell that to China.

China faces a terrible demographic time bomb because of their stupid one child policy. In 20 or 30 years, their working age population will be so small compared to the retired or non-working population that it will cause extreme economic hardship.

People in China will just have to work until they are 75.

Still won't fix the problem.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

No one wants economic growth solely so we can accommodate more people. We only want economic growth that improves our standard of living. What's the point if we just give all the new money to immigrants?

Its the opposite, the immigrants are the SOLUTION to achieving greater wealth, prosperity and power. Otherwise, you risk being a country with a declining work force and an aging retirement community. Population decline is a bad indicator for a country.

My parents are immigrants (legal). I am OK with immigrants if they come in legally. In terms of population decline, tell that to China.

China faces a terrible demographic time bomb because of their stupid one child policy. In 20 or 30 years, their working age population will be so small compared to the retired or non-working population that it will cause extreme economic hardship.

People in China will just have to work until they are 75.

Still won't fix the problem.

They'll hire North Koreans.

 

[U2Edge]

No one wants economic growth solely so we can accommodate more people. We only want economic growth that improves our standard of living. What's the point if we just give all the new money to immigrants?

Its the opposite, the immigrants are the SOLUTION to achieving greater wealth, prosperity and power. Otherwise, you risk being a country with a declining work force and an aging retirement community. Population decline is a bad indicator for a country.

My parents are immigrants (legal). I am OK with immigrants if they come in legally. In terms of population decline, tell that to China.

China faces a terrible demographic time bomb because of their stupid one child policy. In 20 or 30 years, their working age population will be so small compared to the retired or non-working population that it will cause extreme economic hardship.

Or it will rightsize the country. You're just guessing.

China will be a much better country when it's population is 500 million instead of 1.3 billion.

If it can survive the coming train wreck to get there, its possible. But declining population is usually not healthy sign for a country. If Japan's population decline is not reversed, it will cease to exist by 2200

 

[U2Edge]

The Americans who tend to be obese and malnourished live either in poverty or the lower class. Universal Healthcare would go a long way to mending that problem.

How?

Access to healthcare means counseling, advice and nutrition programs that can help people in poverty and the lower class address these issues.

Asshole, those people aren't eating junk because they don't know how to eat better, and can't afford to get counseling. They eat junk because they want to. Do you really think that basic nutrition is that fucking complicated, or is it that you think the vast majority of Americans are just helpless morons who can't tie their shoes without "brilliant", benevolent elitists like you to magnanimously tell them how?

Low income areas in the United States often have poor access to nutritional food at low cost. Its not just about education, it also involves proximity, availability, travel, and cost.

 

[U2Edge]

Its the opposite, the immigrants are the SOLUTION to achieving greater wealth, prosperity and power. Otherwise, you risk being a country with a declining work force and an aging retirement community. Population decline is a bad indicator for a country.

My parents are immigrants (legal). I am OK with immigrants if they come in legally. In terms of population decline, tell that to China.

China faces a terrible demographic time bomb because of their stupid one child policy. In 20 or 30 years, their working age population will be so small compared to the retired or non-working population that it will cause extreme economic hardship.

Or it will rightsize the country. You're just guessing.

Its called demography, a field of study on population and problems related to population. That is how I know this.

And? LOL

Its got nothing to do with guessing.

 

[U2Edge]

The Americans who tend to be obese and malnourished live either in poverty or the lower class. Universal Healthcare would go a long way to mending that problem.

How?

Access to healthcare means counseling, advice and nutrition programs that can help people in poverty and the lower class address these issues.

means counseling, advice and nutrition programs
that dont mean shit unless you follow their advice....

Education works. Not in every situation, but overall it will bring down the rate of obesity, just like sex education brings down the rate of teen pregnancy.

 

[U2Edge]

The fact is that the top 50 developed countries typically provide all their citizens healthcare, do it at rate that is 2/3s the cost of the United States, and they live longer. The topic is Universal Healthcare where everyone is taken care of regardless of the system used. The overwhelming majority of Europeans, even the rich, stay in Europe for their healthcare.

Population is not the issues since the United States spends more on healthcare PER PERSON than any country in the world. These European countries are only spending an average of 10% of their GDP on healthcare and providing for all their citizens with BETTER results.

The average European country spends less on healthcare per person, covers everyone, and achieves better results on average than seen in the United States.

How many illegals do they have? How many have to spend $400k to garner a medical degree? How come 80% of new drug research and innovation comes from the US? How come we have the highest 5-year cancer survivor rates in the world? How many of those countries spend on their military like we do so that we can protect the smaller ones? How many of those countries allow people simply born there to be automatic citizens? What is the tax rate in those countries —- your % of GDP pt? Your argument is weak and you are either trolling or ignorant.

The so called illegals in the United States benefit the country more than they take from it. Illegals in the United States commit less crime on average than American citizens and tend to work harder and are more productive. They are also willing to work in jobs many American citizens are not willing to do. The country needs far more people to come up from latin America and work here if it wants to achieve and maintain real GDP growth of 3% a year. There are 7.3 million unfilled jobs in the United States currently. There are labor shortages everywhere. Attacking illegal's and deporting them will only HURT economic growth which will hurt the entire country especially the budget issues the country is struggling with.

The cost of becoming a healthcare worker should also be reformed and brought in line with where it is in Europe. Again, the whole healthcare for profit whether it be the education for such work or the work itself, needs to stop. Its bankrupting the country and providing so little benefit while doing so.

I doubt 80% of drug research and innovation comes from the United States. Even if it did, there is way to much waste and profit when it comes to drugs. There is also the damage that the drug industry does to the population as well. The focus must be on the health of the population, not profits for the industry. Those profits have not led to higher life expectancy rates for Americans. Again, America is #34th in the world in life expectancy. All these wonderful drugs have not done jack shit when it comes to the bottom line of health for the country as a whole.

Right now in Europe today, there are far more active ground combat brigades stationed there that not U.S. forces by European forces. Europe has far more combat aircraft, main battle tanks, artillery, and other weapons stationed on the ground across Europe than the United States does. So in terms of who the Russians will be facing immediately after an invasion, most of them will be European weapons and forces. The United States currently only has 3 ground combat brigades stationed in Europe. 1 in Germany, 1 in Poland, and 1 in Italy. Germany's total number of ground combat brigades, 6, is more than double the total number of U.S. ground combat brigades stationed in Europe. That's just Germany. There are 28 other European countries we have yet to look at.

Its true that European countries have higher tax rates as a percentage of GDP than the United States does. They tax their rich and upper middleclass far more than we do. Its good policy. They have far less poverty and healthcare for all. The United States, which has one of the lowest tax rates in the world, can't provide healthcare for all its citizens and has far higher percentages of its citizens living in poverty. You could fix these problems in the United States by raising taxes on the rich and upper middle class. The result being a huge reduction in poverty and healthcare for everyone.

1. We are not discussing crime. We are discussing resources for healthcare.
2. At least 80% does. Learn the facts.
3. We are 34th in life expetancy because we are the fattest country. We have an abundance of bad food. We are trying to be better about it but heart attacks are a killer...and eating McDonalds and Wendy's is not good for you.
4. We are still the BEST at curing cancer, managing diabetes, fixing broken arms and such. THE BEST.
5. I don't get your post in bold? What does that mean? US spends by far more than any single European country.
6. Who is "THEY" you cannot lump Europe into one country. See Brexit. So you want to tax the rich more? Why? Because they are rich? This is the reason many wealthy Europeans establish residences in the US or Monaco to escape the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE tax burdens in their countries.

So for your plan to work do you agree that you need to:

#1) Raise taxes
#2) Install a free education system otherwise why would a sane person pay $400k to become a doctor only to be paid a lot less due to Nationlized Healthcare?

If you can solve #1 and #2 we can discuss your universal healthcare plan. But you're looking to run before you learn to crawl and walk.

1. Healthcare has a huge impact on life expectancy
2. The benefit of many of these drugs is questionable. It certainly has not led to better life expectancy In the United States. In many cases, drugs are the problem rather than the solution. There is no evidence that in order to have drugs that actually help people that you need an industry that makes absurd profits on those drugs. Historically, the most valuable drugs in history in terms of their benefit to man kind NEVER came out of a system with such massive profits. These drug companies are helping to bankrupt the United States with their prices and are only adding very marginal benefits, certainly not worth the cost to the country as whole.

3. We are 34th in life expectancy because of a wasteful and low quality healthcare we have relative to what we spend for it. Other factors are the poverty and lower class that can't get care, afford it when they do get it, nor do they have access to low cost quality food in the places where they live.

4. If the United States was the best, it would not be 34th in life expectancy. It should be the best given what it spends on healthcare, but its not even close.

5. It shows you that the lump sum numbers of spending don't actually equal what reality is on the ground. If the Russians invade Europe tomorrow, the vast majority of the ground troops they will be facing will NOT be American. That undercuts that idea that the United States is doing all the work currently to defend Europe. The United States does not pay for other countries ground troops, we only pay for our own. The number of U.S. ground combat troops on the ground in Europe today is fraction of the total NATO number.

6. Most Europeans remain in Europe and receive healthcare in Europe.

Yes, of course the United States needs to raise taxes. IKE had a top federal tax rate of 80% while he was President.

The United States government can subsidize the cost of medical school in order to make it affordable for citizens. We can also reduce the cost of medical school to comparable levels in Europe.

I just heard, "1. Accept this as a fact, even though it's been debunked repeatedly, just because I want to believe it. 2. Accept THIS as a fact, based on my previous pretend-fact, because I want to believe it. 3. Continue to accept my debunked non-fact as a fact, because my argument depends on you believing it the way I desperately want to. 4. And by the way, accept this non-fact that's been disproved, because I have no argument without it, and I SO WANT to believe I'm right. 5. My way of getting stats is right, until it's not to suit my purposes, until it is again. 6. Assume that my position is correct as an argument for my position being correct."

Or, to put it more simply, I just heard you say, "I'm an ignorant assbag who has nothing except a desperate need to believe I'm a wonderful person."

Name calling is childish.

 

[dblack]

The Americans who tend to be obese and malnourished live either in poverty or the lower class. Universal Healthcare would go a long way to mending that problem.

How?

Access to healthcare means counseling, advice and nutrition programs that can help people in poverty and the lower class address these issues.

means counseling, advice and nutrition programs
that dont mean shit unless you follow their advice....

Education works. Not in every situation, but overall it will bring down the rate of obesity, just like sex education brings down the rate of teen pregnancy.

My concern is that government won't be able to resist using its control over health care as "leverage". We're already seeing health care costs used as excuses for regulating what we eat and drink, and taxpayers are only partially picking up the tab. There will be even more pressure to exert this kind of control when government is footing the bill for all health care.

 

[U2Edge]

What text are you quoting? I mean I know for all the crap you parrot from google you are getting a bunch of complaints of folks having to wait on very simple, but extremely important procedures. MRI’s for excample. A very simple but very expensive procedure. As it is now, I can be sent for an MRI here on demand. If I go to an ER like illegal aloe and do I can for whatever reason have one done on demand. In your communist health care wet dream I could wait up to a month for a very simple non invasive proceadure that is pivotal in saving lives. And your whole agreement about “low incom” people is all flat out lies, even worse, you know it’s a lie yet here you are spreading it with glee. Poor in this country have and have always had free medical care. You can’t make the case that communist health care if you have to lie.

The poor and lower class often have to choose between medication or food in the United States. They often going into enormous debt due to the cost of healthcare in the United States. Those burdens are not suffered by Europeans. Europeans live longer, pay less for healthcare, and everyone receives healthcare. There are no communist countries in Europe. NONE. Communism as a system in Europe has been dead since December 25, 1991. Europeans simply have a better approach to healthcare. This is proven by the fact that they live longer than Americans, pay less per person for healthcare, everyone is provided healthcare. When it comes to healthcare, Europeans win with overall quality as measured by life expectancy, coverage, and cost.

The poor are also eating worse and are unhealthier. You are trying to be reactive vs. proactive. I am all for providing better nutritional and exercise options to the less wealthy. Stop saying EUROPEANS. Which countries in partcular would you like to compare to the US?

Average life expectancy in the US is 78.69 years and in Germany it is 80.64 years and in France it is 82.67 years. It is not like people are not making it past 60. And again we are by far the fattest country. Be proactive not reactive!!!

When dealing with average life expectancy, a gap of a year, or two years is actually a lot. Its not acceptable for the United States to be 34th in the world when it comes to life expectancy despite spending more on healthcare than anyone. You can lump Europe together because generally or on average, they have better life expectancy, lower cost medical care and everyone is provided for. The rare exceptions would be in the Balkans where countries like Serbia and Bulgaria don't have Universal Healthcare.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that the US is the fattest country? Doesn't fit your narrative?

The U.S. is the most obese nation in the world, just ahead of Mexico
The US is still the fattest country in the world research confirms | Daily Mail Online

This is why we don't live as long. And 1 year is not a huge deal when you're fatter. Stop it!

He's not ignoring it. He's ASSuming it's because poor people are a bunch of ignorant, helpless sheep who can't possibly figure out that McDonald's isn't health food on their own, and who would RACE to the doctor to get led like children through how to feed themselves if only we would just pay for it.

What he's ignoring is that poor people aren't as stupid and childish as he thinks, they don't WANT to eat healthier, they could see a doctor about their diet right now if they wanted to, and even if you gave them each a free pass to a nutritionist, they wouldn't use it and they wouldn't follow the advice if they did.

Well, you obviously do not understand the problems of low income areas and how living there can have a dramatic impact on your life. Growing up in poverty and living in poverty stricken areas causes many of these problems. Problems that could be addressed through a form of Universal Healthcare. Most European countries don't have poverty rates that are seen in the United States, which is another reason why they have higher life expectancy. Poverty impacts health in many ways.

 

[U2Edge]

How? My insurance doesn't tell me not eat bad foods? Please explain this. I live in Boston, the best place for healthcare in the WORLD.

Being able to talk to doctors and healthcare providers and being given access to low cost quality food. That's how. Many people in low income areas don't have very good access to healthcare professionals or low cost high quality food options.

You cannot conflate the two. Some of our best hospitals are in questionable areas. People have access. In terms of nutrition it is on you. One can easily spend $5 on rice/beans vs. Big Mac and fries. People here choose to eat poorly. You are losing badly. Very badly. You are unprepared.

Its fact that the poor and lower class have lower life expectancies and share a much higher proportion of the nations obesity problem. Universal healthcare could help solve these problems among the poor and lower class and improve overall U.S. life expectancy.

Walk me through on why and how? Doctors do not prescribe diets.

Well, they might, or they might refer you to a dietician. Problem is, you have to WANT to eat healthier and ask them to do so. And for nearly everyone in the US, if they WANTED to eat healthier, they wouldn't need a doctor or a dietician to do it. It's not exactly rocket science, and they all know what's required. People aren't fat because they can't possibly see a doctor about it, whatever Edge wants to believe.

Education has an impact on human behavior. So does having better access to health and food services. We know sex education reduces teen pregnancy rates. This is no different.