the 9/11 attack

[Democrat4Bush]

LOL, mainframe,

I'm the one that told you.


http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=173671#post173671

 

[jimnyc]

It's on video, in his addresses to the public. I've seen it replayed dozens of times, and I'm sure you have too.

Actually, I don't recall those exact words. Can you please link me to the address where he made those comments?

 

[Mainframe]

Perhaps you need help locating the door? :fifty:
Just let me know, it would be my pleasure!

Defend that Kool Aid joke Sir Evil! Its your gold!


you know im playing with you

 

[jimnyc]

It's on video, in his addresses to the public. I've seen it replayed dozens of times, and I'm sure you have too.

In fact, I just searched through every speech he made since 2001 and haven't come up with that quote yet. If that's the cornerstone of your debate that he lied, it would be helpful if you would supply a link. I would hate to think a liberal lied just to make it appear that Bush lied!

 

[Mainframe]

LOL, mainframe,

I'm the one that told you.


http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=173671#post173671

Your right, you did post those links. You win. I lose.

 

[wade]

Actually, I don't recall those exact words. Can you please link me to the address where he made those comments?

Exact words? I never gave exact words. I paraphrpased. Are you denying that Bush stated that he knew that Saddam had WMD's and the means to produce them?

 

[tim_duncan2000]

Ok. This is a myth I personally know to be false. A friend of mine, who is a Kerry supporter, happens to be a news photographer, and he happened to be at the pentagon on September 11th. And guess what? He saw little bits of plane wreckage all over the ground. So any one who tries to tell you it didn't happen is off their rocker.

Don't you get it? He's a part of the conspiracy.

The intel community has said they made it clear the info was not verified, and that the Bush admin decided to act on it anyway.

Of course it was unverified! A lot of the time, intelligence is unverified. I guess nothing should ever be done unless it's totally verified. Of course, if something happened because we didn't act on unverified intelligence, you wouldn't like that either.

BTW, what do you have to say about quotes like the one in my signature made by people not in the Bush administration. Did Bush trick them all (how did he do that anyway; all we ever hear is how much of a moron he is).

Exact words? I never gave exact words. I paraphrpased.

Oh, so you admit that he never made that exact quote.

 

[White knight]

Man, Whats going on in here?

 

[jimnyc]

Exact words? I never gave exact words. I paraphrpased. Are you denying that Bush stated that he knew that Saddam had WMD's and the means to produce them?

Backpedal much? LOL

You stated that Bush said he knew "100% for a fact" Are you now denying that?

Now you are saying he stated "he knew that Saddam had WMD's and the means to produce them".

That's more reasonable AND NOT A LIE. He based that on intelligence.

I can't believe you would throw in a few choice words of your own just to make it look like Bush lied. How sad.

 

[Merlin1047]

so i guess i just answered my own question..

you think this is just some more propaganda..

thanks for your time

Aaaah - no. You're wrong. I don't think it's propoganda. I think it is criminal stupidity. I think that people like you wallow in this swill so that you have something to do every day and so that you can feel superior to those who do not believe your fantasy.

Accusing George Bush of collusion with the Bin Ladens because of their financial connections is simply a construct of those whose goal is to smear the president. Bush was a member of the Carlisle investment group. So were the Bin Ladens. The Carlisle group is rather like a mutual fund for the rich. That's like accusing me of collusion with Saddam because I own shares of Fidelity and so do some in the former Iraqi government.

Please, we've had conspiracy theorists here before and frankly a couple of them were a lot better than you. They just weren't any more credible.

 

[Merlin1047]

Who cares it's all old history.

Ah yes folks - there it is. The final refuge of a lib who can no longer defend his position.

Another one bites the dust.

 

[wade]

Backpedal much? LOL

You stated that Bush said he knew "100% for a fact" Are you now denying that?

Now you are saying he stated "he knew that Saddam had WMD's and the means to produce them".

That's more reasonable AND NOT A LIE. He based that on intelligence.

I can't believe you would throw in a few choice words of your own just to make it look like Bush lied. How sad.

Stop trying to deny the facts - Bush presented weak evidence that Saddam might have had WMD's as if it were solid evidence. That's lying.

I guess it will take some quotes to make the point, so here they are:

"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have"
George W. Bush, President, Radio Address, 10/5/2002
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021005.html

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."
....
"If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today - and we do - does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?"
George W. Bush, President, Cincinnati Ohio Speech, 10/7/2002
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4518337-110878,00.html

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
George W. Bush, President, Address to the Nation, 3/17/2003
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030317-7.html

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." Dick Cheney, Vice President, Speech to VFW NationalConvention, 8/26/2002 http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020826.html

"It's going to take time to find them, but we know he had them. And whether he destroyed them, moved them or hid them, we're going to find out the truth."
George W. Bush, President, Speech at a weapons factory in Ohio, 5/25/2003

I'll leave out statements by Donald Rumsfeld, Ari Fleischer, Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, and others in the Administration who speak on behalf of the president. Their statments are even more clearly lies, and if not retracted by the President, they are the same as if he said them himself.

Contrary to your assertion, Bush never had any solid evidence that there were WMD's in Iraq. His intelligence report was very clear, a CIA white paper (Oct 2, 2002) which clearly, after the first two pages, qualified this knowlege with words like "we judge" and "we assess", which were removed from the white house version publically released a few days later. The Senate comment on this:

"Removing caveats such as 'we judge' and 'we assess' changed many sentences in the unclassified paper to statements of fact rather than assessments," the report noted. In doing so, the White Paper "misrepresented [the intelligence community's] judgments to the public," the Senate panel concluded.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43220-2004Jul11.html

So Bush took a CIA report, manipulated it so that it would state as fact what were clearly only "judgements" and "assessments", and then used this as the basis of his statements to the public that he knew Saddam had large stockpiles of WMD's and facilities actively producing WMD's. That is lying in its most devious form.

Wade.

 

[jimnyc]

Give it up Wade. The only one who lied was you by trying to make claims that Bush stated things he had not. I called your bluff and you changed your story. You look very sad in your backpeddaling.

 

[jimnyc]

"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have"
George W. Bush, President, Radio Address, 10/5/2002

Based on intelligence he reported this to the nation. Hardly a lie.

"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

Again, based on intelligence and missing chemicals that were previously declared by Iraq.

"If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today - and we do - does it make any sense for the world to wait to confront him as he grows even stronger and develops even more dangerous weapons?"
George W. Bush, President, Cincinnati Ohio Speech, 10/7/2002

Sounds reasonable to me, and not a lie! Hell, even the latest reports from Duelfer state that Saddam wanted to develop more dangerous weapons.

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
George W. Bush, President, Address to the Nation, 3/17/2003

"Intelligence gathered" <----- Can you not understand this? He reported once again to the nation the intelligence that was given to him. Not a lie!

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." Dick Cheney, Vice President, Speech to VFW NationalConvention, 8/26/2002

Getting desperate, LOL! This isn't even Bush! Either way, not a lie. Cheney also believed in the intel.

"It's going to take time to find them, but we know he had them. And whether he destroyed them, moved them or hid them, we're going to find out the truth."
George W. Bush, President, Speech at a weapons factory in Ohio, 5/25/2003

Yep, he believed the intelligence and set out for the truth since Iraq refused to do so by following the resolutions. Not even close to a lie.

So Bush took a CIA report, manipulated it so that it would state as fact what were clearly only "judgements" and "assessments", and then used this as the basis of his statements to the public that he knew Saddam had large stockpiles of WMD's and facilities actively producing WMD's. That is lying in its most devious form.

Methinks you need to read a little better!

the CIA exaggerated and distorted the evidence

When are you going to show that Bush was part of your master conspiracy plan? What evidence do you have that he knew he was giving false information, and that he didn't believe at the time what he was stating?

Again, the only lie I have seen thus far was in your own made up quotes.

 

[wade]

Tell me Wade, how does one become privy to such information? I mean really now, were you witness to this manipulation or just one of your wild theories?

Hmmm... did you read the attached news story or the Senate report on the subject? That's what they said he did!

 

[jimnyc]

Hmmm... did you read the attached news story or the Senate report on the subject? That's what they said he did!

Oh really, that article stated that Bush did that? Can you please point out where, or is this another one of YOUR lies?

 

[wade]

No Jimmy,

It is clear from the info in my post that Bush knew the info he had was not anthing close to facts, just assumptions and speculations. Yet he presented this as fact, even modified the CIA white paper and then released the edited version to make it support him. There was no such inteligence that supported the statements made by Bush and his cabinet (whose statements, if not retracted, are the same as if made by Bush himself).

Even the Senate commitee found Bushes little game a deception of the public!

That's lying, you can try to deny it all you want but it's clear as day to anyone who is not wearing a BUSH is GOD hat.

 

[jimnyc]

No Jimmy,

It is clear from the info in my post that Bush knew the info he had was not anthing close to facts, just assumptions and speculations. Yet he presented this as fact, even modified the CIA white paper and then released the edited version to make it support him. There was no such inteligence that supported the statements made by Bush and his cabinet (whose statements, if not retracted, are the same as if made by Bush himself).

Even the Senate commitee found Bushes little game a deception of the public!

That's lying, you can try to deny it all you want but it's clear as day to anyone who is not wearing a BUSH is GOD hat.

That's funny, I just did a search through your entire article on the term "Bush" and came back with one hit, and it wasn't about him changing or distorting anything. Why is it that you think they didn't claim Bush lied? Why do you keep making it sound like that article supports your conspiracy that Bush lied when it only mentions his name once and doesn't say anything at all about him that you are claiming?

 

[eric]

 

[wade]

Oh really, that article stated that Bush did that? Can you please point out where, or is this another one of YOUR lies?

Here's the document: http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm#toc

I've not been able to find a quotable source that says that the document was specifically ordered by the White House. What I have been able to find is that such documents can only be ordered by the White House or the Congress, but this one was not ordered by Congress and it is now claimed it was mysteriously initiated out of the blue by George Tenet.

However that is really not what is relevant. What is releavent is that the White House chose to make the edited verision public and then Bush presented its findings as facts when he clearly knew different, since he had recieved the 90 page full version previously. Clearly his statements to the public about his knowelge, based upon and referencing the edited public report, were lies. How much clearer could it be?

It is also very interesting that Bush will not allow a 1 page summary he recieved at the same time to be seen even by the Senate Intelligence Commitee. He claims "excutive privlidge". I.e. "executive cover-up".