The act of a foolish General 160 years ago today

[August West]

Against the advice of his trusted General Longstreet, Bobbie Lee sent thousands to their deaths in a foolish frontal assault against Cemetery Hill where thousands of loyal troops with 80 cannon awaited. Years later, General Pickett made the remark, "that old man had my division slaughtered".
In the post-war years, it was Longstreet that was demonized by the losers.

Pickett's Charge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Manonthestreet]

Against the advice of his trusted General Longstreet, Bobbie Lee sent thousands to their deaths in a foolish frontal assault against Cemetery Hill where thousands of loyal troops with 80 cannon awaited. Years later, General Pickett made the remark, "that old man had my division slaughtered".
In the post-war years, it was Longstreet that was demonized by the losers.

Pickett's Charge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

These types of actions happen I would bet in most losing efforts. Japs and the Germans did this. Battle of the Bulge anyone

 

[August West]

These types of actions happen I would bet in most losing efforts. Japs and the Germans did this. Battle of the Bulge anyone

That`s true but the south was still in the game before this disaster. Lee`s soldiers were harder to replace than the northern soldiers because the north had a much bigger population to call on. Eventually, both sides had to resort to a draft.

 

[MarathonMike]

That was one poor battlefield decision. LBJ decisions on the Viet Nam war resulted in 60 thousand deaths and millions scarred with PTSD.

 

[whitehall]

According o legend General Pickett apparently ordered the infamous charge not Lee. An impartial judge could have said that Ike ordered Americans to certain death at D.Day and the subsequent breakout. Shit happens.

 

[August West]

According o legend General Pickett apparently ordered the infamous charge not Lee. An impartial judge could have said that Ike ordered Americans to certain death at D.Day and the subsequent breakout. Shit happens.

Pickett`s division was only one of the three divisions that made the charge. He didn`t have the authority to order the charge any more than the other 2 division commanders, generals Trimble and Pettigrew. The recorded history is clear. Legends are not. Lee was calling all the shots. Longstreet told him that there are no 15,000 soldiers anywhere who could take the position where the union was dug in and well supplied. Trimble and Pettigrew were replacing generals that had become casualties on the first 2 days of the battle. I`m kind of geeky on this stuff, being a card carrying, dues paying member of the Gettysburg Foundation.

 

[August West]

That was one poor battlefield decision. LBJ decisions on the Viet Nam war resulted in 60 thousand deaths and millions scarred with PTSD.

5 presidents had their hands on Vietnam but it was LBJ and Nixon who did the most damage. It ended LBJ`s presidency and it led to Nixon`s resignation in a roundabout way.

 

[gipper]

It was a dumb and desperate decision. I walked Picketts Charge years ago. How Lee thought his men could advance that far over open ground with numerous federal batteries zeroed in is crazy.

I’ve read recently that many rebs laid down when they realized there was little chance of success. Thus saving their lives. The entire 15k would have been killed, wounded, or captured otherwise.

 

[DudleySmith]

Make hundreds of critical decisions a day and see how many you get right.

 

[Flash]

Against the advice of his trusted General Longstreet, Bobbie Lee sent thousands to their deaths in a foolish frontal assault against Cemetery Hill where thousands of loyal troops with 80 cannon awaited. Years later, General Pickett made the remark, "that old man had my division slaughtered".
In the post-war years, it was Longstreet that was demonized by the losers.

Pickett's Charge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The stupid Yankees were idiots tying to attack Marye's Heights at Fredericksburg or attack the entrenched Confederate lines at Cold Harbor. Tens of thousands of casualties because of idiot Yankee leadership.

Of course I liked it when the Yankee scum tried to invade Florida and got their asses kicked real bad at Olustee. Especially the Negro regiments like the 54th Mass.

The Union were the shitheads in that war.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

... as were the Confederates, Flash. The CSA leadership in the West were trash, and handled as such by Grant and Sherman and Thomas, etc.

 

[gipper]

Make hundreds of critical decisions a day and see how many you get right.

There is little doubt Lee was a great general, but he really fucked up at Gettysburg.

Had he fought the war using the tactics Jackson used during his successful Shenandoah campaigns, he might have won the war.

 

[Pellinore]

I've always thought of it as an illustration of what happens when a commander is still fighting the last war. Lee's tactics were based on Napoleonics, in which the cannons basically would blow the hell out of the middle of the opposing line, and then infantry would advance and split the enemy line in two. He didn't take into account that technology had given the defenders Minie balls and Gatling guns, both of which make that tactic a disaster.

Lee also stuck too diligently to his plan, which he should changed drastically once they saw that Alexander's artillery all overshot their targets. That goes double because Stuart's cavalry hadn't arrived yet.

 

[AZrailwhale]

There is little doubt Lee was a great general, but he really fucked up at Gettysburg.

Had he fought the war using the tactics Jackson used during his successful Shenandoah campaigns, he might have won the war.

The Confederacy had no chance of winning the war as long as Lincoln maintained his will to preserve the Union. All Lee could do was to stave off defeat for a time. The losses at Gettysburg hastened the end of the war because the Confederacy couldn’t replace the manpower it lost that day. The Union could do it over and over again.

 

[gipper]

The Confederacy had no chance of winning the war as long as Lincoln maintained his will to preserve the Union. All Lee could do was to stave off defeat for a time. The losses at Gettysburg hastened the end of the war because the Confederacy couldn’t replace the manpower it lost that day. The Union could do it over and over again.

Wrong. Lee using guerilla tactics and avoiding major battles where he was always outmanned and unable to match Union artillery, could have prolonged the war and lead to Lincoln losing support. Plus the Euro powers might have intervened helping the South.

If you read history, often the weaker opponent wins wars. However they must use tactics that increase their chances of success. For example, the American Revolution and the Vietnam War.

 

[August West]

The Confederacy had no chance of winning the war as long as Lincoln maintained his will to preserve the Union. All Lee could do was to stave off defeat for a time. The losses at Gettysburg hastened the end of the war because the Confederacy couldn’t replace the manpower it lost that day. The Union could do it over and over again.

On July 4th, one day after the defeat at Gettysburg, Vicksburg fell and the western treasonous states were out of the war. Jeff Davis and Lee should have ended it right there.

 

[DudleySmith]

Wrong. Lee using guerilla tactics and avoiding major battles where he was always outmanned and unable to match Union artillery, could have prolonged the war and lead to Lincoln losing support. Plus the Euro powers might have intervened helping the South.

If you read history, often the weaker opponent wins wars. However they must use tactics that increase their chances of success. For example, the American Revolution and the Vietnam War.

Lee would have easily won at Gettysburg if he hadn't been over-cautious about feeding men into the battle. He might not have defeated the north by conquest, but a continuation of his offensive to raid Pennsylvania and points north would have created havoc politically for Lincoln; NYC itself almost seceded along with the South, and much of Pennsylvania was pro-southern, a sizable demographic of Wisconsin, New Jersey, and other states were opposed to the war, and would have sued for peace with the South. Lincoln only survived the mid-terms following his election by having his private army control the voting in the border states.

The short answer is the South needed a quick victory, and failed to produce one, and 1863 was the year they needed to achieve that. After that northern economic production and manpower decided the war.

 

[August West]

Lee would have easily won at Gettysburg if he hadn't been over-cautious about feeding men into the battle. He might not have defeated the north by conquest, but a continuation of his offensive to raid Pennsylvania and points north would have created havoc politically for Lincoln; NYC itself almost seceded along with the South, and much of Pennsylvania was pro-southern, a sizable demographic of Wisconsin, New Jersey, and other states were opposed to the war, and would have sued for peace with the South. Lincoln only survived the mid-terms following his election by having his private army control the voting in the border states.

The short answer is the South needed a quick victory, and failed to produce one, and 1863 was the year they needed to achieve that. After that northern economic production and manpower decided the war.

Lee threw everything he had at the Army of the Potomac on days 2 and 3 at Gettysburg. Meade holding the high ground on Cemetery Hill was the deciding factor. Lee was far from being overly- cautious.

 

[DudleySmith]

Lee threw everything he had at the Army of the Potomac on days 2 and 3 at Gettysburg. Meade holding the high ground on Cemetery Hill was the deciding factor. Lee was far from being overly- cautious.

All one needs to do is look at the OB and timelines. They are self-explanatory. Lee committed way too late. He should have not been diverted at all, but once commited he should have commited in full the first and second day and denied much of the high ground to the enemy. His strategic position sucked. Otherwise a couple of tactical errors wouldn't have cost him the battle.

 

[August West]

All one needs to do is look at the OB and timelines. They are self-explanatory. Lee committed way too late. He should have not been diverted at all, but once commited he should have commited in full the first and second day and denied much of the high ground to the enemy. His strategic position sucked. Otherwise a couple of tactical errors wouldn't have cost him the battle.

While Lee was gathering thousands of prisoners on day 1, the rest of Meade's army were placing their guns on Cemetery Hill and digging in. Lee had no way to prevent that.