The big question about life on other planets: 1000000000000000000000 planets in the universe

[Frannie]

No, it would not because it is a fact that life is indeed possible. That is proven by our own existence.

You are not following.

Any argument you could make for the rarity of life would be an argument for reducing its probability. You would have to take these arguments to the extreme to argue the possibility that life is so rare, it may have only formed once in our universe. To keep these arguments from being the equivalent of arguing it is impossible in the lifetime of our universe, you would have to somehow qualify them with additional arguments that the possibility is non zero (as we know this for a fact).

And,in doing so, you will have completely undermined your own prior arguments and actually will have argued that life has and will likely form many times.

This trap, from which you cannot escape, is brought to you by the vastness of the universe.

Yes, I follow and you are ignoring the rest of the post which directly addresses this.

Your assumption REQUIRES that life is frequent. IOW you are stating that life forming just once in the galaxy is not possible.

That assumption is based on nothing at all. Clearly life forming just one time is, indeed, a possibility.

Are you really stating that such an outcome is not possible?

Again you are assuming that life formed anywhere, there is no evidence of this. What we do know that life does is spread, as do humans

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nothing about the genesis of life is known as it may well have come from outside our universe where everything is so different that it can not even be imagined

And then entered our universe...how?

Why aren't you making this argument for volcanos, or hurricanes, or stars? Why would it not apply to those? Or are you unable to constrain this argument, and you insist it applies to everything, including stars, planets, hurricanes, etc...?

Furthermore, even if it entered our universe form another universe...why would it not be correct to just say, "it formed in that other universe"? Are you arguing that life may have no beginning? That it never "formed", but just always was?

Why isnt life from outside the universe still appearing on Earth? We would be able to tell by examining it, you know.

You sure have a lot of explaining to do!

 

[FA_Q2]

No, it would not because it is a fact that life is indeed possible. That is proven by our own existence.

You are not following.

Any argument you could make for the rarity of life would be an argument for reducing its probability. You would have to take these arguments to the extreme to argue the possibility that life is so rare, it may have only formed once in our universe. To keep these arguments from being the equivalent of arguing it is impossible in the lifetime of our universe, you would have to somehow qualify them with additional arguments that the possibility is non zero (as we know this for a fact).

And,in doing so, you will have completely undermined your own prior arguments and actually will have argued that life has and will likely form many times.

This trap, from which you cannot escape, is brought to you by the vastness of the universe.

Yes, I follow and you are ignoring the rest of the post which directly addresses this.

Your assumption REQUIRES that life is frequent. IOW you are stating that life forming just once in the galaxy is not possible.

That assumption is based on nothing at all. Clearly life forming just one time is, indeed, a possibility.

Are you really stating that such an outcome is not possible?

Again you are assuming that life formed anywhere, there is no evidence of this. What we do know that life does is spread, as do humans

That assumption is not relevant to the point I was making anyway.

 

[Frannie]

Nothing about the genesis of life is known as it may well have come from outside our universe where everything is so different that it can not even be imagined

And then entered our universe...how?

Why aren't you making this argument for volcanos, or hurricanes, or stars? Why would it not apply to those? Or are you unable to constrain this argument, and you insist it applies to everything, including stars, planets, hurricanes, etc...?

Furthermore, even if it entered our universe form another universe...why would it not be correct to just say, "it formed in that other universe"? Are you arguing that life may have no beginning? That it never "formed", but just always was?

Why isnt life from outside the universe still appearing on Earth? We would be able to tell by examining it, you know.

You sure have a lot of explaining to do!

The newest theory of speeded expansion is that a pulling force from outside the universe is causing expansion and not the missing dark matter. No one can say where the universe ends or starts and what if anything is outside it so the question can not be answered.

That said screaming that life formed in a dead pond because nothing felt like forming life because there is no better answer is like saying that earthquakes happen when a God is pissed. Everyone believed that at one point in time because there was no better answer

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nothing about the genesis of life is known as it may well have come from outside our universe where everything is so different that it can not even be imagined

And then entered our universe...how?

Why aren't you making this argument for volcanos, or hurricanes, or stars? Why would it not apply to those? Or are you unable to constrain this argument, and you insist it applies to everything, including stars, planets, hurricanes, etc...?

Furthermore, even if it entered our universe form another universe...why would it not be correct to just say, "it formed in that other universe"? Are you arguing that life may have no beginning? That it never "formed", but just always was?

Why isnt life from outside the universe still appearing on Earth? We would be able to tell by examining it, you know.

You sure have a lot of explaining to do!

The newest theory of speeded expansion is that a pulling force from outside the universe is causing expansion and not the missing dark matter. No one can say where the universe ends or starts and what if anything is outside it so the question can not be answered.

That said screaming that life formed in a dead pond because nothing felt like forming life because there is no better answer is like saying that earthquakes happen when a God is pissed. Everyone believed that at one point in time because there was no better answer

Actually, "everyone" ( <- note: Frannie's incorrect term used by me in the interest of furthering the discussion) still believes that, as all the components necessary for life were here on Earth. And you still have the same problem of which you accuse others, as you still have to account for formation of life. Saying it formed elsewhere or at another time is still saying that it formed. Abiogenesis is still part and parcel of your speculative ideas.

 

[Frannie]

Nothing about the genesis of life is known as it may well have come from outside our universe where everything is so different that it can not even be imagined

And then entered our universe...how?

Why aren't you making this argument for volcanos, or hurricanes, or stars? Why would it not apply to those? Or are you unable to constrain this argument, and you insist it applies to everything, including stars, planets, hurricanes, etc...?

Furthermore, even if it entered our universe form another universe...why would it not be correct to just say, "it formed in that other universe"? Are you arguing that life may have no beginning? That it never "formed", but just always was?

Why isnt life from outside the universe still appearing on Earth? We would be able to tell by examining it, you know.

You sure have a lot of explaining to do!

The newest theory of speeded expansion is that a pulling force from outside the universe is causing expansion and not the missing dark matter. No one can say where the universe ends or starts and what if anything is outside it so the question can not be answered.

That said screaming that life formed in a dead pond because nothing felt like forming life because there is no better answer is like saying that earthquakes happen when a God is pissed. Everyone believed that at one point in time because there was no better answer

Actually,everyone still believes that, as all the components necessary for life were here on Earth. And you still have the same problem of which you accuse others, as you still have to account for formation of life. Saying it formed elsewhere or at another time is still saying that it formed. Abiogenesis is still part and parcel of your speculative ideas.

Actually everyone clearly does not believe what you do.

That is a third grade argument.

Everybody does it

Grow up

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Actually everyone clearly does not believe what you do.

That's a stupid response. You were the first to use the term "everybody". I was just keeping the discussion going. So, first you need to whine to yourself about the use of that term. Can you please just act like an adult for a little while? Thanks.

I edited the post above for you, and for clarity.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

For all the religious folks with the urge to chime in:

Saying god formed life from nonlife...

...is just one description of abiogenesis.

 

[Frannie]

Actually everyone clearly does not believe what you do.

That's a stupid response. You were the first to use the term "everybody". I was just keeping the discussion going. So, first you need to whine to yourself about the use of that term. Can you please just act like an adult for a little while? Thanks.

I edited the post above for you, and for clarity.

What I said was

That said screaming that life formed in a dead pond because nothing felt like forming life because there is no better answer is like saying that earthquakes happen when a God is pissed. Everyone believed that at one point in time because there was no better answer

Do you still believe that earthquakes are caused by angry Gods and that something can come from nothing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Everyone believed that at one point in time because there was no better answer

While, of course, your use of the word "everyone" is incorrect, it is worth nothing that there is still no better answer, and that abiogenesis here on Earth is still the prevailing theory. And it's not even close. Any claim to the contrary by you is a shameless lie brought on by the desperate hopes of a religious goober.

Furthermore, your tendency to stray away from the arguments and talk about what people believe is stupid and irrelevant and belies that your mind is addled by goofy religion. Only in the realm of your goofy, childish religion does "belief" speak to what is true or not true.

 

[Frannie]

Everyone believed that at one point in time because there was no better answer

While, of course, your use of the word "everyone" is incorrect, it is worth nothing that there is still no better answer, and that abiogenesis here on Earth is still the prevailing theory. And it's not even close. Any claim to the contrary by you is a shameless lie brought on by the desperate hopes of a religious goober.

Furthermore, your tendency to stray away from the arguments and talk about what people believe is stupid and irrelevant and belies that your mind is addled by goofy religion. Only in the realm of your goofy, childish religion does "belief" speak to what is true or not true.

The abiogenesis theory predates the understanding of how massively complicated the genetic code is.

Furthermore when the human race moves life to another lifeless planet and sets up farming ecosystems, God is proved

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The abiogenesis theory predates the understanding of how massively complicated the genetic code is.

Irrelevant. Every attempt to assert, mathematically, that DNA did not have time to form here has been thoroughly debunked. Yes, smarter people than you thought of this before you did, and smarter people than you tried and failed to assert this, mathematically.

 

[Frannie]

The abiogenesis theory predates the understanding of how massively complicated the genetic code is.

Irrelevant. Every attempt to assert, mathematically, that DNA did not have time to form here has been thoroughly debunked. Yes, smarter people than you thought of this before you did, and smarter people than you tried and failed to assert this, mathematically.

Actually kid every attempt to prove that DNA could have formed here has failed

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, by far the prevailing theory is that abiogensis occured here on Earth. (It's not even close)

The fact that it would have done so in a span of only a few 10s or 100s of millions of years greatly strengthens the idea that separate instances of abiogenesis have occurred and will occur in our universe, given its sheer size and age.

So, how to check? Well, both our minds and our tech are relatively feeble, in this endeavor. Might the type of life that formed elsewhere not even be recognizable to us as life? How can we even begin to conduct a survey of other planets for life, given our technical constraints?

In order to deal with these problems, we search nearby planets for signs of life we would recognize. This is not an admission that life "has" to be a certain way, or that failure to find signs of life as we know it on nearby planets would say anything at all about the likelihood of the truth of the claim that life has formed at least one other time in our universe.

It's merely what we currently have to work with.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Actually kid every attempt to prove that DNA could have formed here has failed

False. Shameless lie. You literally just made that up on the spot. In fact, the opposite is true, as every testable idea of any step to its formation we have imagined and tested has been shown to be possible,on Earth.

I can see this discussion has now gone far over your head and has far exceeded your intellectual and emotional capabilities to grapple with this topic. I will not be responding to your trolling attempts and shameless lies any further.

 

[Frannie]

Actually kid every attempt to prove that DNA could have formed here has failed

False. Shameless lie. You literally just made that up on the spot. In fact, the opposite is true, as every testable idea of any step to its formation we have imagined and tested has been shown to be possible,on Earth.

I can see this discussion has now gone far over your head and has far exceeded your intellectual and emotional capabilities to grapple with this topic. I will not be responding to your trolling attempts and shameless lies any further.

There has never been an experiment that created life from completely nothing, no matter what was input. I can not make up the truth, every experiment failed, if I was wrong you could have named the scientist who succeeded at this also named the life form he created.

Seriously you are a silly little boy living inside your delusions, you need medication if you believe these babbles

 

[RWS]

High five! I'll give you that one! I'm good that it's related! Arsenic and phosphorus are very similar chemically.

But arsenic impersonating phosphorous in DNA, is unknown to us in life. As "life as we know it".

But DNA that started replicating, had to go two ways. Phosphorus, or Arsenic. Almost all life went for phosphorus. So this bacteria, if not shown to be alive elsewhere, could be an indigenous species. Life 2.0...

 

[RWS]

But everything's cool.

I want to discuss life 3.0....

Who's ready?

C'mon, let's do it! Don't be a dick!

 

[Frannie]

High five! I'll give you that one! I'm good that it's related! Arsenic and phosphorus are very similar chemically.

But arsenic impersonating phosphorous in DNA, is unknown to us in life. As "life as we know it".

But DNA that started replicating, had to go two ways. Phosphorus, or Arsenic. Almost all life went for phosphorus. So this bacteria, if not shown to be alive elsewhere, could be an indigenous species. Life 2.0...

Arsinate metabolizing bacteria are certainly interesting.

 

[Frannie]

But everything's cool.

I want to discuss life 3.0....

Who's ready?

C'mon, let's do it! Don't be a dick!

Then start, what is life 3.0 to you?

I can't wait for a computer program to say hello and not have that be in the programming.