The Brady/Ryan Tax Reform Plan

[Aldo Raine]

Flat tax is far and away the fairest way to go. That's why it will never fly!

A flat tax is regressive. So it is not fair, and that is why it will never fly.

Not being a dick, but explain to me why.

 

[g5000]

Flat tax is far and away the fairest way to go. That's why it will never fly!

A flat tax is regressive. So it is not fair, and that is why it will never fly.

Not being a dick, but explain to me why.

Study after study shows that flattening the tax rate would shift a significant amount of the tax burden onto the middle class and away from the wealthy.

Also, if you are just above a subsistence level, even a ten percent tax could push you into an non-subsistence condition while that threat would never be present for a wealthy person. This is why Thomas Jefferson himself advocated a progressive tax system. He believed MOST people should be exempt from tax.

Anyway, the flat tax is used as misdirection, giving the rubes the mistaken impression that the things which actually tilt the playing field to the advantage of the wealthy go away with a flat tax.

They don't. All the corruption in our tax system now will be present in the flat tax, making it extremely regressive. The vast majority of tax expenditures benefit special interests.

I've said it a zillion times that no matter which tax scheme you have, it will be very quickly corrupted unless you first ban tax expenditures.

I like the Fair Tax for two reasons. It is impossible to hide a tax increase, and it is harder to hide exemptions which benefit a special interest.

Three reasons, actually. It is a tax on consumption, rather than a tax on production.

 

[g5000]

I'm more concerned about the corporate tax reform. The special interests have a choke hold on our Congress critters when it comes to reforming the corporate tax code. A serious choke hold.

This particular corruption is rising to the level of treason.

I wish Congressman Nunes would break his silence and start hitting the talking head circuit.

 

[bendog]

Enough with the monkeys running the zoo around here, and their shit slinging. Let's talk turkey.

Kevin Brady and Paul Ryan will be holding the fiscal reins going forward, and will thus be the real power in Washington.

Here is a summary of their tax reform plan: Forbes: Speaker Paul Ryan And Chairman Kevin Brady Produce A Tax Blueprint To Make America Great Again

• Increases the standard deduction from $6,300 to $12,000 for singles, from $12,600 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly, and from $9,300 to $18,000 for heads of household.
• Eliminates the personal exemption and creates a $500 non-refundable credit for dependents who are not children.
• Increases the Child Tax Credit to $1,500 per child, limits the refundability of the credit to $1,000, and raises the phaseout threshold for the Child Tax Credit for married households from $110,000 to $150,000.
• Eliminates all itemized deductions besides the mortgage interest deduction and the charitable contribution deduction.
• Eliminates the individual alternative minimum tax.
• Reduces the corporate income tax rate from 35% to 20%.
• Eliminates the corporate alternative minimum tax.
• Taxes income derived from pass-through businesses at a maximum rate of 25%.
• Allows the cost of capital investment to be fully and immediately deductible.
• Eliminates the deductibility of net interest expenses on future loans.
• Restricts the deduction for net operating losses to 90% of net taxable income and allows net operating losses to be carried forward indefinitely, and increased by a factor reflecting inflation and the real return to capital. Does not allow net operating losses to be carried back.
• Eliminates the domestic production activities deduction (section 199) and all other business credits, except for the research and development credit.
• Creates a fully territorial tax system, exempting from U.S. tax 100% of dividends from foreign subsidiaries.
• Enacts a deemed repatriation of currently deferred foreign profits, at a tax rate of 8.75% for cash and cash-equivalent profits and 3.5% on other profits.
• Modifies all business income taxes to be border-adjustable, disallowing the deduction for purchases from nonresidents and exempting export profits and foreign-derived profits from taxation.

Here is their tax plan from their own pen: http://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-Tax-PolicyPaper.pdf

Here is the analysis by the independent Tax Foundation: Details and Analysis of the 2016 House Republican Tax Reform Plan

• The House Republican tax reform plan would reform the individual income tax and would move towards destination-based cash flow taxation of businesses.
• According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, the plan would significantly reduce marginal tax rates and the cost of capital, which would lead to 9.1 percent higher GDP over the long term, 7.7 percent higher wages, and an additional 1.7 million full-time equivalent jobs.
• The plan would reduce federal revenue by $2.4 trillion over the first decade on a static basis. However, due to the larger economy and the broader tax base, the plan would reduce revenue by $191 billion over the first decade.
• Although the plan would reduce federal revenue by $2.4 trillion on a static basis in the first decade, much of the revenue loss is one-time. As a result, the plan will cost much less in subsequent decades.
• On a static basis, the plan would lead to 0.7 percent higher after-tax income for all taxpayers and 5.3 percent higher after-tax income for the top 1 percent. When accounting for the increased GDP, after-tax incomes of all taxpayers would increase by at least 8.4 percent.

At first glance it appears certain that their plan would leave even MORE American households paying no federal income tax.

Isn't that one of the Right's most pet peeves?

Yeah, I'm tempted to get on board the bandwagon, because eliminating tax gimmicks and lowering rates is something I've been in favor of a long time, as is lowering the corp rate and bringing home overseas profits. But Paul (I really am Ayn) Rand has spoken with forked tongue too often before. I'd like to see an analysis of the effects for each quintile.

 

[bendog]

A Republican plan that appears based on the thoroughly discredited theory that lowering taxes will increase revenues and pay for themselves is what I would call

fool me thrice, shame on me again.

It's not a discredited theory that making market return based more on econ performance that tax gimmick will increase gnp. That's pretty credible. But Ryan has a history of cutting taxes for the rich to increase deficits for our kids.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Flat tax is far and away the fairest way to go. That's why it will never fly!

A flat tax is regressive. So it is not fair, and that is why it will never fly.

Not being a dick, but explain to me why.

Study after study shows that flattening the tax rate would shift a significant amount of the tax burden onto the middle class and away from the wealthy.

Also, if you are just above a subsistence level, even a ten percent tax could push you into an non-subsistence condition while that threat would never be present for a wealthy person. This is why Thomas Jefferson himself advocated a progressive tax system. He believed MOST people should be exempt from tax.

Anyway, the flat tax is used as misdirection, giving the rubes the mistaken impression that the things which actually tilt the playing field to the advantage of the wealthy go away with a flat tax.

They don't. All the corruption in our tax system now will be present in the flat tax, making it extremely regressive. The vast majority of tax expenditures benefit special interests.

I've said it a zillion times that no matter which tax scheme you have, it will be very quickly corrupted unless you first ban tax expenditures.

I like the Fair Tax for two reasons. It is impossible to hide a tax increase, and it is harder to hide exemptions which benefit a special interest.

Three reasons, actually. It is a tax on consumption, rather than a tax on production.

Will have to read up on it. Always thought flat tax did away with all exemptions and tax breaks for all. If not then you would be correct it would tilt the field very much to the wealthy.

 

[g5000]

Always thought flat tax did away with all exemptions and tax breaks for all.

That is very deliberately what you have been led to believe.

But that would not be the case. There is no explicit ban on tax deductions, credits, or deductions in any flat tax plan. Go ahead and read any one of the plans out there, and all of the bills for one out there, and see for yourself.

It is a glaring absence once you know to look for it.

 

[g5000]

Even the Brady/Ryan tax plan leaves the door wide open for future corruption.

Reagan drastically reformed the tax code in 1986. But ever since then, our congress critters have been shoveling in deductions, exemptions, and credits just as fast as they can. This is what has added to our debt more than anything else.

This is how our politicians get campaign contributions. This is what they are being paid to do by special interests.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Always thought flat tax did away with all exemptions and tax breaks for all.

That is very deliberately what you have been led to believe.

But that would not be the case. There is no explicit ban on tax deductions, credits, or deductions in any flat tax plan. Go ahead and read any one of the plans out there, and all of the bills for one out there, and see for yourself.

It is a glaring absence once you know to look for it.

Thank you Sir for educating me and I will loom farther into it! As I said was always led to believe no write offs for anyone, just flat X%!

 

[g5000]

Flat tax is far and away the fairest way to go. That's why it will never fly!

A flat tax is regressive. So it is not fair, and that is why it will never fly.

Not being a dick, but explain to me why.

Study after study shows that flattening the tax rate would shift a significant amount of the tax burden onto the middle class and away from the wealthy.

Also, if you are just above a subsistence level, even a ten percent tax could push you into an non-subsistence condition while that threat would never be present for a wealthy person. This is why Thomas Jefferson himself advocated a progressive tax system. He believed MOST people should be exempt from tax.

Anyway, the flat tax is used as misdirection, giving the rubes the mistaken impression that the things which actually tilt the playing field to the advantage of the wealthy go away with a flat tax.

They don't. All the corruption in our tax system now will be present in the flat tax, making it extremely regressive. The vast majority of tax expenditures benefit special interests.

I've said it a zillion times that no matter which tax scheme you have, it will be very quickly corrupted unless you first ban tax expenditures.

I like the Fair Tax for two reasons. It is impossible to hide a tax increase, and it is harder to hide exemptions which benefit a special interest.

Three reasons, actually. It is a tax on consumption, rather than a tax on production.

Will have to read up on it. Always thought flat tax did away with all exemptions and tax breaks for all. If not then you would be correct it would tilt the field very much to the wealthy.

The flat tax falls flat for good reasons

Moreover, its simplicity is a ruse. The thing that complicates the tax code is not the number of rates. It’s the myriad ways in which we define different types of income. It’s all the preferences, deductions and credits.

Now, you might argue that a flat tax will get rid of those, but all that tells me is that a) you don’t know the tax lobby, and b) you’re one of the few people who’s not running for president.

 

[g5000]

Always thought flat tax did away with all exemptions and tax breaks for all.

That is very deliberately what you have been led to believe.

But that would not be the case. There is no explicit ban on tax deductions, credits, or deductions in any flat tax plan. Go ahead and read any one of the plans out there, and all of the bills for one out there, and see for yourself.

It is a glaring absence once you know to look for it.

Thank you Sir for educating me and I will loom farther into it! As I said was always led to believe no write offs for anyone, just flat X%!

I have been a long time lonely advocate for the elimination of tax expenditures. Or as you say, no write-offs for anyone.

This is the only sustainable path to lower tax rates and balanced budgets.

 

[Aldo Raine]

Always thought flat tax did away with all exemptions and tax breaks for all.

That is very deliberately what you have been led to believe.

But that would not be the case. There is no explicit ban on tax deductions, credits, or deductions in any flat tax plan. Go ahead and read any one of the plans out there, and all of the bills for one out there, and see for yourself.

It is a glaring absence once you know to look for it.

Thank you Sir for educating me and I will loom farther into it! As I said was always led to believe no write offs for anyone, just flat X%!

I have been a long time lonely advocate for the elimination of tax expenditures. Or as you say, no write-offs for anyone.

This is the only sustainable path to lower tax rates and balanced budgets.

Agreed, my mistake thinking that a politician would dream up something that might help the people. Shame on me I should no better!

 

[g5000]

Always thought flat tax did away with all exemptions and tax breaks for all.

That is very deliberately what you have been led to believe.

But that would not be the case. There is no explicit ban on tax deductions, credits, or deductions in any flat tax plan. Go ahead and read any one of the plans out there, and all of the bills for one out there, and see for yourself.

It is a glaring absence once you know to look for it.

Thank you Sir for educating me and I will loom farther into it! As I said was always led to believe no write offs for anyone, just flat X%!

I have been a long time lonely advocate for the elimination of tax expenditures. Or as you say, no write-offs for anyone.

This is the only sustainable path to lower tax rates and balanced budgets.

Agreed, my mistake thinking that a politician would dream up something that might help the people. Shame on me I should no better!

Well, there are some conservatives (actual conservatives) in Congress who really are trying to do what is right for our country. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by cowards who want power for power's sake, and for whom winning is the only thing that matters.

 

[jc456]

Flat tax is far and away the fairest way to go. That's why it will never fly!

A flat tax is regressive. So it is not fair, and that is why it will never fly.

why does it need to be regressive? flat tax, just like when you buy something at the store, everyone pays the same tax.

 

[g5000]

Flat tax is far and away the fairest way to go. That's why it will never fly!

A flat tax is regressive. So it is not fair, and that is why it will never fly.

why does it need to be regressive? flat tax, just like when you buy something at the store, everyone pays the same tax.

A sales tax is even more regressive!

 

[Aldo Raine]

Always thought flat tax did away with all exemptions and tax breaks for all.

That is very deliberately what you have been led to believe.

But that would not be the case. There is no explicit ban on tax deductions, credits, or deductions in any flat tax plan. Go ahead and read any one of the plans out there, and all of the bills for one out there, and see for yourself.

It is a glaring absence once you know to look for it.

Thank you Sir for educating me and I will loom farther into it! As I said was always led to believe no write offs for anyone, just flat X%!

I have been a long time lonely advocate for the elimination of tax expenditures. Or as you say, no write-offs for anyone.

This is the only sustainable path to lower tax rates and balanced budgets.

Agreed, my mistake thinking that a politician would dream up something that might help the people. Shame on me I should no better!

Well, there are some conservatives (actual conservatives) in Congress who really are trying to do what is right for our country. Unfortunately, they are drowned out by cowards who want power for power's sake, and for whom winning is the only thing that matters.

I would not call myself a con, a fiscal conservative yes. A social liberal probably, don't hold it against me.

 

[jc456]

Flat tax is far and away the fairest way to go. That's why it will never fly!

A flat tax is regressive. So it is not fair, and that is why it will never fly.

why does it need to be regressive? flat tax, just like when you buy something at the store, everyone pays the same tax.

A sales tax is even more regressive!

How do you figure, the more you buy the more you pay, seems fair to me.

 

[sartre play]

Hope there is more discussion on this, I just keep seeing the Huge deduction for the very wealthy, a small one for middle class, and an increase in our national debt. what am I missing?

 

[Aldo Raine]

Hope there is more discussion on this, I just keep seeing the Huge deduction for the very wealthy, a small one for middle class, and an increase in our national debt. what am I missing?

Actually, I do not think you are missing anything. That seems to be what most models see with this reform.

 

[jc456]

Hope there is more discussion on this, I just keep seeing the Huge deduction for the very wealthy, a small one for middle class, and an increase in our national debt. what am I missing?

what huge deduction are you seeing with the rich that the middle class doesn't get?