The Clean debate zone misuse

[Rambunctious]

Is the problem debating and presenting arguments or is the problem people who cannot debate and just take it too personal. You can have heated debates but there is a line when facts are no longer used and insults, indignity, self righteousness , and feelings of losing take over. If you have a moderator and you do have to have one in a debate who can be impartial then it should be fine. It just that taking it personal feeling that is the problem, Then the moderator gets blamed.

Debate does require an opposing argument or otherwise it's a group of cheerleaders with there pom poms waving in the air.

I don't blame the moderator for what its worth....the CDZ should be cleaned up though.....some libs are using it to enrage folks not debate them....but that is my opinion only...maybe I anger easily...

 

[Rambunctious]

Shows you what happens when I try a CDZ thread...lol sorry about that everyone....it flamed out.....

Some of us just weren't meant for the CDZ. lol

Good point OL...point well taken...I understand...

 

[Rambunctious]

The CDZ should not be used to slam the president and his supporters without reprisal...its unfair....if you want to slam us Trump supporters do it in the regular forum...the CDZ is not your private safe zone....Mr and Mrs snowflake.....just my opinon....

Tissue?

Why can’t you defend Trump cleanly?

That's the point...should I have to defend him in the CDZ?... or discuss and debate his actions?.....

What is so difficult in defending the president without resorting to personal insults?

I know he can’t do it......but why can’t you?

I respond angrily to repeated proven lies about the president and his supporters....starting a thread by calling people trumpkins is not a clean debate....

If you can prove lies in Clean Debate, it shouldn’t be an issue.

Are Conservatives capable of actually defending Trumps actions without screaming.....TDS....TDS.....TDS

We shouldn't have to defend the same lies over and over again...but I will just stay clear of the CDZ....

 

[OldLady]

The CDZ should not be used to slam the president and his supporters without reprisal...its unfair....if you want to slam us Trump supporters do it in the regular forum...

Who said you can't refute what's being said. There's a difference between refuting someone's statement and simply calling them a stupid piece of shit

Its when you refute in kind and your post is removed for being too personal...well I take it personally when my president and my country gets slammed...so I respond in anger to it...have them take it to the main board....starting a thread that you know will piss folks off in not CDZ material....IMO

What I think you are saying, Ram, is that in the CDZ, things ought to be CLEAN: fact driven. Rather than incendiary slams on Trump designed to take jabs at his supporters, they ought to be fact-driven, based on some sort of tangible evidence which others can examine or refute, not just the absence of PERSONAL ATTACKS AND INSULTS. I can't disagree with that.

Yes when the thread is nothing but lies about the president it should be moved out of the CDZ or it will cause some retaliatory posts to be posted then removed by a moderator leaving the dishonest thread intact....

But sometimes people call it "lies" when it is actually something true that they don't want to hear. If you want to retaliate, open a thread in politics and page the OP. Or if you're REALLY pissed, go to the Flame Zone or Badlands. There is a conservative that has had a thread open in the CDZ that I growl at everytime I see the title, and it's been steadily active, but I'm not going there because after reading a few pages I was ready to say something very unCDZ-like.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I made it for myself when I joined, to try to sort out and map out where all these hidden "zones" were. It was accurate at that time until some point unbeknownst to me that one of the zones was finally melded into the others reducing us to now only THREE zones, a fact I only discovered a few weeks ago by accident when I had cause to again go researching the topic of "zones."

CASE IN POINT, Taz: Let's say you just logged on and see a red "2" in your "Alerts," and click on one as being a reply to one of your posts (as you maybe just did now) bringing you to THIS POST. LOOK AT IT. If you didn't already know it (and weren't a mod focused on the matter all the time), just looking at my post here-- -- HOW CAN YOU TELL WHAT "ZONE" IT IS IN?

1. Does it SAY Zone 1?
2. Does it have any distinction such as a 'Z1' symbol anywhere, a green or red dot (take your pick) to signify the zone 1 area, or ANYTHING which immediately draws the viewer's eye to identify the zone you are in?

This is a SERIOUS FLAW which the IT administrators ought to address. There should be some sort of identifying tag, color, symbol, etc., allied to wherever a post appears, eg, a hypothetical "Alerts" drop down box shown below. ESPECIALLY now that we have the new, better, software.

• "Zone 1": Clean Debate Zone (CDZ) / Introduce Yourself (Welcome Threads) / The Lounge and Announcements: Civil discourse is the focus here, regardless of topic matter. Constructive criticism and debate is the tone. No insulting, name calling, or putting down other posters. Consider it a lesson in Civics.
• "Zone 2": All other forums not specified as Zone 1 or Zone 3: This will apply to the vast majority of the board.: Baiting and polarizing OP's (Opening Posts), and thread titles risk the thread either being moved or trashed. Keep it relevant, choose wisely. Each post must contain enough specific thread topic content to advance the discussion, in addition to any personal flame or snark. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.
• "Zone 3": Flame Zone/Badlands/Rubber Room: The least moderated forum on the site. Not viewed by non members. Site wide rules still apply, but are more loosely enforced. Extreme flaming threads and posts belong here. If the OP (Opening Post) of Your Thread is focused on Mocking or Ridicule, It belongs here. You must be 18 years or older to enter and participate in these forums. In addition -- a 100 post (new member) minimum is required in order to post or "thank" posts in the Flame Zone.
• Always refer to the "sticky threads" that are placed at the top of each forum for additional posting guidelines that may pertain to that forum.

 

[OldLady]

There are only four places on this board where you have to remain civil. It's right there in black and white--well, red. If posters can't remember four places, maybe they're too far gone to post anything. As for sometimes "slipping" and forgetting to check where you are, I'm sure we've all done it now and then. Ooops. It's always a good idea to check where you are before personally attacking someone.

You can always track that poster and attack them elsewhere. All is not lost.

 

[toobfreak]

I made it for myself when I joined, to try to sort out and map out where all these hidden "zones" were. It was accurate at that time until some point unbeknownst to me that one of the zones was finally melded into the others reducing us to now only THREE zones, a fact I only discovered a few weeks ago by accident when I had cause to again go researching the topic of "zones."

CASE IN POINT, Taz: Let's say you just logged on and see a red "2" in your "Alerts," and click on one as being a reply to one of your posts (as you maybe just did now) bringing you to THIS POST. LOOK AT IT. If you didn't already know it (and weren't a mod focused on the matter all the time), just looking at my post here-- -- HOW CAN YOU TELL WHAT "ZONE" IT IS IN?

1. Does it SAY Zone 1?
2. Does it have any distinction such as a 'Z1' symbol anywhere, a green or red dot (take your pick) to signify the zone 1 area, or ANYTHING which immediately draws the viewer's eye to identify the zone you are in?

This is a SERIOUS FLAW which the IT administrators ought to address. There should be some sort of identifying tag, color, symbol, etc., allied to wherever a post appears, eg, a hypothetical "Alerts" drop down box shown below. ESPECIALLY now that we have the new, better, software.

• "Zone 1": Clean Debate Zone (CDZ) / Introduce Yourself (Welcome Threads) / The Lounge and Announcements: Civil discourse is the focus here, regardless of topic matter. Constructive criticism and debate is the tone. No insulting, name calling, or putting down other posters. Consider it a lesson in Civics.
• "Zone 2": All other forums not specified as Zone 1 or Zone 3: This will apply to the vast majority of the board.: Baiting and polarizing OP's (Opening Posts), and thread titles risk the thread either being moved or trashed. Keep it relevant, choose wisely. Each post must contain enough specific thread topic content to advance the discussion, in addition to any personal flame or snark. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.
• "Zone 3": Flame Zone/Badlands/Rubber Room: The least moderated forum on the site. Not viewed by non members. Site wide rules still apply, but are more loosely enforced. Extreme flaming threads and posts belong here. If the OP (Opening Post) of Your Thread is focused on Mocking or Ridicule, It belongs here. You must be 18 years or older to enter and participate in these forums. In addition -- a 100 post (new member) minimum is required in order to post or "thank" posts in the Flame Zone.
• Always refer to the "sticky threads" that are placed at the top of each forum for additional posting guidelines that may pertain to that forum.

Yes, yes, yes, Taz, you are still evading or missing the point. To THE ACTUAL USER, there are no zones, the zones are hidden. I come into USMB on a given day to see what's new: First place I look is in my ALERT box:

WHERE ARE THE ZONES? What zone is this message in, or that? No frigging idea. Members FOLLOW PEOPLE and CONVERSATIONS, not "zones." I click on a reply or a "like" above from conversations from yesterday, I have no idea what zones they were in.

Next stop, after I read all my replies and likes:

NEW POSTS or MOST ACTIVE POSTS:

Now I'm going into threads I've never seen before. Which of these is in Zone 1? 2? 3? WHO THE FRICK KNOWS. Does USMB seriously think that a person has the time or thought or interest to stop first with each post, each thread, each reply in a split second and wonder, gee, I wonder what Zone I'm in, especially when all the effort given to the matter by Admin is to post that box of definitions you showed in some discreet location? Worse, after clicking on one of the threads above, it may deposit me on page 1, page 3, in the middle of the page, at top-- -- -- -- no where on the page, top, bottom, or in the post itself is there any indication or reminder of the Zone that happens to be! They all look alike!! When this could be both easily and artfully shown!

Same thing here with LATEST DISCUSSIONS, the actual FORUM LIST or threads within a given forum. See any "Zones" anywhere?

Which zone are any of these threads in? Is one of them a Zone 1 or a Zone 3?

Where are the Zones here? The forums aren't even organized by zone here!

I'm sure it's a no brainer for you since you actually work for USMB and think about and deal with POLICING THE ZONES 24/7. Members do not.

What about here: tell me what "Zone" these threads are all in? Any idea? If you can guess right, you are a better man than me, because, THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME.

What about when a link directs oneself to an individual post:

Any idea what "Zone" this came from? Has a violation been committed here? Is moderator action required? You could never know from what the member sees.

My point here Taz is not to be a shit-head or give anyone a hard time but as a group owner and moderator myself, to point out that members follow people and conversations, not "Zones." In the heat of debate with various people or topics, we often jump between ten-fifteen threads an hour. No one has any time usually to think of, wonder about or try to keep track of what zone each may be in, especially when its not even obvious. Less than obvious, it isn't indicated anywhere on the actual page where the member reads and his attention is focused.

Even at the top of THIS PAGE, all it says is "General Discussion" and the name of the thread! No Zone is even indicated there. To be honest, when my Alert box has 35 new replies in it and I'm trying to get through them all, might have something cooking, dealing with phone calls or other things, I usually see a person I'm interested in or a new topic that sounds intriguing, and look into it or get involved without having any idea what the thread is much less the zone. Members follow people and conversations. No one but you guys care about these zones especially when for all intents and purposes, they are essentially hidden and invisible to us.

I don't think any of this is rocket science.

I've been meaning to follow this matter up with Flacc after recently, after heated arguments with some particularly mentally challenged obnoxious people lead me into rebuffing them not realizing it had inadvertently carried me over onto a Zone 1 area. Considering that you live and die by the Zones and sometimes even give people the axe by the Zones, I don't think this is a silly or trivial matter. I'm betting that asked, the lion's share of people here would agree with me, and I know there are many ways that the Zone of a forum, topic, thread or post could all be indicated clearly wherever they appear automatically by the software with a color flag or some other marker to indicate a different "look" for each zone such as I showed in post #22. That was just one of a dozen different ways it could be shown.

So now the balls in your court. Between you, Meister, Kat and Flacc among others, I know you have some very intelligent, educated and skilled people here to consider the points I've made. I hope you bring this to the attention of senior mods who then discuss the matter with the Admin. I'm a creative person of many ideas and have just given you some great ideas that implemented, I know some people out there get paid a lot of money for free. You folks are more than welcome to PM me for further discussion or ideas and details on ways this could or might be done. The psychology of the brain works off color and pattern recognition from our days of hunting and avoiding danger in the tall grass, not blocks of text. It would transform this forum and largely solve the whole "zone" thing for you mods and make life so much easier for both moderator and member alike as there would never be any question, nor excuse for not knowing the zone you were in! The question now is only whether you folks care enough about the board and are as interested in and willing as some of us lowly members here to have the initiative to exploit the opportunities the new software finally makes available to solve this very old, very large, and very much overlooked failing?

 

[toobfreak]

There are only four places on this board where you have to remain civil. It's right there in black and white--well, red. If posters can't remember four places, maybe they're too far gone to post anything. As for sometimes "slipping" and forgetting to check where you are, I'm sure we've all done it now and then. Ooops. It's always a good idea to check where you are before personally attacking someone.

You can always track that poster and attack them elsewhere. All is not lost.

Simple question for you then, OL:

WHAT ZONE IS THIS POST IN?

What is wrong? Is your mind gone or you just can't keep track of four places?