The Definition of a "Living Wage"

[Roadrunner]

Don't compare us to Sweden and Finland the results are too depressing

Sweden and Finland have about the same number of whites as Alabama, Mississippi and Georgia.

I wonder what it is they don't have that makes them so wonderful?

 

[Boss]

Trying to say EU is cheaper because we have lower costs in regulation, minority access or Health and Safety is a complete lack of understanding to the kind of laws and employee rights that exist.

McDonald's workers are in unions in a few countries in Europe(Finland and Sweden).

I just asked you a few questions, I didn't make any claims. All the things you cited are also done in the US through the USDA. I said nothing about handicapped people being discriminated against or refused service... do your McDonalds have to provide handicap toilets, parking space and ramps? I'm asking because I don't know, not trying to be contrary. The point is, we have a whole lot of differences in the US which factor into consumer cost.

If McD's workers in Europe are union, good for them! You didn't quote the price of a Big Mac in Finland or Sweden. I'm betting it's probably higher than the US. And that's okay for Finland and Sweden customers because a Big Mac is a specialty food for them. People will pay more for something out of the norm and different. Also... how many people staff a typical McDonalds there?

Let me explain again what is going to happen to McDonalds if they unionize here... The locations which are now struggling to maintain profitability will close. Other locations will downsize staff or replace staff with automation technology which will suddenly become more viable. So you've eliminated a whole bunch of McDonalds jobs right there. Prices will go up, hours of operation will decrease, no more 24hr. locations. Menus will be scaled back. Serving sizes may decrease as well. There are LOTS of ways a capitalist has of mitigating the extra cost of labor. What DOESN'T happen is, the profit margin doesn't change. CEOs and corporate big wigs will still make the same ton of money as always. You'll significantly decrease the number of jobs available, you'll see a necessary increase in productivity expected by each employee, customers will not have as much convenience as before... but hey, you will have "accomplished" something, right? All the shitting on cop cars and protesting was worth it!

 

[Amazon]

What's so hard? A "living wage" is one that enables you to pay all your expenses - food, rent, heat, transportation, and the rest.

Now was that so hard?

The only odd thing attached to other people's definitions, is that somehow some of the sillier leftists expect EVERY job to pay that much.

That's like expecting every man to be at least 6 feet tall or taller. It isn't so, and only a fool would expect it to be.

The expectation of a living wage is reasonable and possible. Your analogy is not only flawed, there's a bit of "poison" in that well.

If you use legislation to force the minimum wage to be, say, $8/hr, then all that does is eliminate all jobs that are worth less than that.

There are no jobs worth less than a living wage. Everyone who works should be able to pay their bills.

When was the last time you pulled into a gas station and had three guys come out to wash your windshield, check the oil and water, and put air in the tires?

Fifty years ago that was common at nearly every gas station. The people doing it were mostly teenagers, working their first job for pocket money, experience in doing what a boss told them, and a good recommendation from their boss for when they moved up to a better-paying job. Then the minimum wage started rising, and all those gas station windshield washers lost their jobs, except at the stations that maintained a separate "full service" island... where the gas cost more. And before long, those jobs went away too.

The first self-service gas station was opened in 1947:

1. Unemployment was 3.8% in 1947*, when the minimum wage was $0.40 an hour.**
2. Unemployment was 3.3% in 1951*, but the minimum wage was $0.75 an hour.**

Unemployment surged in 1948, but the economy had not only recovered 4 years later, unemployment was actually DOWN from before the increase in the minimum wage.

And all the while the liberal do-gooders kept crowing that they were helping the little guy... while carefully ignoring all the guys who lost their jobs as a result.

Obviously, we were helping both the little guy and the country (by lowering the unemployment rate).

I know it's hard to grasp how raising the minimum wage lowers unemployment in the long run, so here is my explanation.

Raising the minimum wage does translate into a temporary rise in unemployment, but the rise is actually very small. This is because all companies hire only as many people as they need. There just aren't that many expendable employees.

When you raise the minimum wage, a few people may lose their jobs, but the hundreds of remaining workers who got a raise spend the extra money. This stimulates the economy by--guess what--creating jobs, which lowers the unemployment rate again.

*Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

**U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

 

[Redfish]

Don't compare us to Sweden and Finland the results are too depressing

I have been to both of those countries, I will take the USA every day. While those countries have beautiful coastlines, forests, and cities, they also have very very high taxes and it is very hard to get ahead financially. If you want your kids to get a good education, you better stay in the US. If you have a serious medical condition, you better stay in the US. If you want to pay $10 for a big mac, Sweden and Finland are for you.

 

[Redfish]

What's so hard? A "living wage" is one that enables you to pay all your expenses - food, rent, heat, transportation, and the rest.

Now was that so hard?

The only odd thing attached to other people's definitions, is that somehow some of the sillier leftists expect EVERY job to pay that much.

That's like expecting every man to be at least 6 feet tall or taller. It isn't so, and only a fool would expect it to be.

The expectation of a living wage is reasonable and possible. Your analogy is not only flawed, there's a bit of "poison" in that well.

If you use legislation to force the minimum wage to be, say, $8/hr, then all that does is eliminate all jobs that are worth less than that.

There are no jobs worth less than a living wage. Everyone who works should be able to pay their bills.

When was the last time you pulled into a gas station and had three guys come out to wash your windshield, check the oil and water, and put air in the tires?

Fifty years ago that was common at nearly every gas station. The people doing it were mostly teenagers, working their first job for pocket money, experience in doing what a boss told them, and a good recommendation from their boss for when they moved up to a better-paying job. Then the minimum wage started rising, and all those gas station windshield washers lost their jobs, except at the stations that maintained a separate "full service" island... where the gas cost more. And before long, those jobs went away too.

The first self-service gas station was opened in 1947:

1. Unemployment was 3.8% in 1947*, when the minimum wage was $0.40 an hour.**
2. Unemployment was 3.3% in 1951*, but the minimum wage was $0.75 an hour.**

Unemployment surged in 1948, but the economy had not only recovered 4 years later, unemployment was actually DOWN from before the increase in the minimum wage.

And all the while the liberal do-gooders kept crowing that they were helping the little guy... while carefully ignoring all the guys who lost their jobs as a result.

Obviously, we were helping both the little guy and the country (by lowering the unemployment rate).

I know it's hard to grasp how raising the minimum wage lowers unemployment in the long run, so here is my explanation.

Raising the minimum wage does translate into a temporary rise in unemployment, but the rise is actually very small. This is because all companies hire only as many people as they need. There just aren't that many expendable employees.

When you raise the minimum wage, a few people may lose their jobs, but the hundreds of remaining workers who got a raise spend the extra money. This stimulates the economy by--guess what--creating jobs, which lowers the unemployment rate again.

*Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

**U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division WHD - Minimum Wage

Karl Marx would be proud of you, You are saying exactly what he said.

 

[Amazon]

I would love to see businesses struggle terribly to fill low wage jobs but that will never happen because for some reason people keep applying for them. Why I will never know. Frankly we don't need eve one more minimum wage job. They do nothing for the economy

Are you serious?

"Businesses offer only minimum wage jobs and when people take those jobs to feed themselves, it's their fault?"

That's a good one. Kinda like blaming welfare recipients for setting their own pay too low.

 

[Redfish]

I would love to see businesses struggle terribly to fill low wage jobs but that will never happen because for some reason people keep applying for them. Why I will never know. Frankly we don't need eve one more minimum wage job. They do nothing for the economy

Are you serious?

"Businesses offer only minimum wage jobs and when people take those jobs to feed themselves, it's their fault?"

That's a good one. Kinda like blaming welfare recipients for setting their own pay too low.

1% of the workforce is making minimum wage, most of them are part time teens making pocket money. No one is making a minimum wage job their lifetime career.

This is a bullshit left wing issue that has absolutely no impact on the economy.

If you raise the minimum wage, there will be fewer part time jobs for teens, how will that help anyone?

 

[Boss]

With your feeble mind you can't recall if it was 20 cars you restored or 5.

No, I just said that I sold the first one for $20k and bought 5 more. That wasn't ALL that I did. I restored those and bought some more, and restored those, etc. I have a warehouse with about 70 cars in it right now, you want one? Tell you what I will do... I have a '50 Packard Victoria, same as I started out with... I'll sell it to you for $2k if you want to go get it in NY. That's a special price just for you zeke. Restored, it is worth about $70k. Now, it's rough and needs a lot of work, but you can do it the same as I did, a little at a time as you get the money.

But you asked me how I became wealthy and I felt you deserved to hear about it.

Man, I am baiting you. I don't give a fuck what you say, do or did. You have just been fun to fuck with. Cause you take it so SERIOUSLY.
Give it up dude. You are making a fool of yourself. And I am helping you. Put me on "ignore". That's what all the "smart" posters do.

Oh I don't take you seriously zeke. You are typical liberal pond scum to me. Ignore? Why would I do that and deprive myself of so much rich entertainment? You're the fool here, I'm just exposing it for everyone else.

 

[airplanemechanic]

I actually am doing better than 15k a year because that was allowing 200 a month in food and 300 a month "misc expenses" and that just ain't happenin. Right now, for 2014, I'm at about 9500 dollars.

And I never said I was living large. I'm comfortable though. I'm actually living within my means, go figure.

A stat just came out that the millennial generation is saving at a -.2% rate. That means they are spending every dime they make and saving nothing and going into debt just to live. That just isn't true with me. I don't have the newest smartphone though.

 

[FA_Q2]

I would love to see businesses struggle terribly to fill low wage jobs but that will never happen because for some reason people keep applying for them. Why I will never know. Frankly we don't need eve one more minimum wage job. They do nothing for the economy

Are you serious?

"Businesses offer only minimum wage jobs and when people take those jobs to feed themselves, it's their fault?"

That's a good one. Kinda like blaming welfare recipients for setting their own pay too low.

So you don't think that the wage you make is under your control?

You do understand how absolutely asinine that is, right?

 

[initforme]

I agree. Minimum wage jobs do nothing to help the economy and we have more than enough of them already. So raising the min wage won't do much of anything.

 

[Boss]

Everyone who works should be able to pay their bills.

Nonsense, it all depends on how much their bills are. Some people are idiots who over-extend themselves and buy things they don't really need on credit. That's not my fault or anyone else's fault except for the idiots. Why should we expect their wages to cover their stupid financial choices?

 

[Redfish]

I would love to see businesses struggle terribly to fill low wage jobs but that will never happen because for some reason people keep applying for them. Why I will never know. Frankly we don't need eve one more minimum wage job. They do nothing for the economy

Are you serious?

"Businesses offer only minimum wage jobs and when people take those jobs to feed themselves, it's their fault?"

That's a good one. Kinda like blaming welfare recipients for setting their own pay too low.

So you don't think that the wage you make is under your control?

You do understand how absolutely asinine that is, right?

don't you get it? liberals are victims, someone else is always responsible.

 

[Redfish]

Everyone who works should be able to pay their bills.

Nonsense, it all depends on how much their bills are. Some people are idiots who over-extend themselves and buy things they don't really need on credit. That's not my fault or anyone else's fault except for the idiots. Why should we expect their wages to cover their stupid financial choices?

Yeah, but, but but. everyone deserves a new car, flat screen TV, latest Iphone, xbox, and a rolex watch, right?

 

[LoneLaugher]

When you believe he is living large on 15k per year, yeah you are being punked.

You might be brain dead. He never said....and I never said..that he's "livin' large". He said he lives on that amount by choice. His motivation is to try and convince others that it is easy to live on minimum wage. You know....like most idiots would have you believe.

Try harder.

Like I said. Go on being punked if you want.

You don't know what that word means, do you?

 

[kaz]

His motivation is to try and convince others that it is easy to live on minimum wage. You know....like most idiots would have you believe.

Try harder.

What if people raised their wages by working harder?

 

[zeke]

Nonsense, it all depends on how much their bills are. Some people are idiots who over-extend themselves and buy things they don't really need on credit. That's not my fault or anyone else's fault except for the idiots. Why should we expect their wages to cover their stupid financial choices?

Yep, that's what you just wrote. Nonsense.
"Why should we expect their wages to cover their stupid financial choices" you ask.

Well dumb ass, who else's "wages" would you suggest they use to pay their debts? Yours? Mine? Fuck you.
You want to go out and pay for the buying decisions of someone else, have at it.

Seems to make more sense to let them pay their own way out of their own wages. And if they go bankrupt, they go bankrupt.

 

[Kosh]

When you believe he is living large on 15k per year, yeah you are being punked.

You might be brain dead. He never said....and I never said..that he's "livin' large". He said he lives on that amount by choice. His motivation is to try and convince others that it is easy to live on minimum wage. You know....like most idiots would have you believe.

Try harder.

Like I said. Go on being punked if you want.

You don't know what that word means, do you?

Says that one that thinks Obama is a moderate..

 

[Boss]

Nonsense, it all depends on how much their bills are. Some people are idiots who over-extend themselves and buy things they don't really need on credit. That's not my fault or anyone else's fault except for the idiots. Why should we expect their wages to cover their stupid financial choices?

Yep, that's what you just wrote. Nonsense.
"Why should we expect their wages to cover their stupid financial choices" you ask.

Well dumb ass, who else's "wages" would you suggest they use to pay their debts? Yours? Mine? Fuck you.
You want to go out and pay for the buying decisions of someone else, have at it.

Seems to make more sense to let them pay their own way out of their own wages. And if they go bankrupt, they go bankrupt.

Zeke, have you been sniffing the glue pot today man? I'm responding to someone who said that "Everyone who works should be able to pay their bills." Well, if they are stupid people who make bad decisions, why should we or would we expect that? I agree with you, let them fuck up and go bankrupt... it's not MY place to make sure they can pay their bills if they are stupid.

I am so sick and tired of the liberals whining and moaning about "the poooooor" who can't afford to feed their kids... can't afford a roof over their heads... can't afford medicine... (But they can somehow goddamn afford a new iPhone and Playstation!)

 

[zeke]

Some people are idiots who over-extend themselves and buy things they don't really need on credit.[/QUOTE]
What you said was the above.
[QUOTE="Boss, post: 10146897, member: 36773"]Why should we expect their wages to cover their stupid financial choices?

What you closed with was the; why should we expect..........


Now you dumb fuck, is there a difference between people who HAVE the MONEY to live and chose to buy a bunch of shit they don't need and can't afford and those that don't make enough MONEY to buy basic necessities and cover basic costs?

That is the question; is there a difference between those two situations. Yes or no?