The Definition of a "Living Wage"

[Boss]

Did. I say "can't"? No...I didn't. I said "doesn't want to". Pay attention.

And....it depends on what we are buying, doesn't it? Not being able to pay cash for a home certainly does not mean that one cannot afford to buy the home.

You can apologize any time for misrepresenting what I said AND accusing me of not reading and understanding information.

The thing that you and your hipster friends don't seem to grasp is, this 'financing' you keep bragging about is made possible by the millionaires and billionaires you detest and loathe. You see, a wealthy individual makes some of their assets available for banks and financial institutions to use, to make loans to little people who can't afford to pay cash for things. They loan you the money and in return, you pay interest and they capitalize on your need for money.

So whenever you are yammering about how it's okay to finance and stupid to pay cash, you are really arguing that it's okay to let rich people capitalize and make a profit on your inability to pay for something in cash, and it's stupid to do anything else. Then you turn around and complain about them being wealthy and making insane profits. You politically want to destroy these people and take their wealth while literally making them more wealthy.

Now... I am going to speak to you as a grown up, not some childish fantasy figure who believes in fairy tales of Utopianism. No matter what we are discussing in the way of a consumer product, it is always better to pay cash for it. If you live your life by the adage that "if I can't pay cash, I can't afford it" then you will never go wrong, and you will never be in debt. This is arguably the single biggest secret to developing wealth, although it's really not a secret at all.

All across this country, people struggle to make ends meet with their pay and wages because they have gone into debt for things they didn't need or could have done without. They convince themselves, like you have here, that it's okay to finance a house or car, they need that and can't pay cash for it, so that's alright. Next thing you know, it's an ATV, a jet-ski, a plasma screen TV, a smart phone... on and on. Hey... $20 down and sign a 2-year contract... you can do that, you've got $20! YOLO! Then the monthly instalments start piling up and the "decent wages" you once made aren't so decent anymore.

So now you have convinced yourselves that the problem is these mean and greedy rich folks who don't care about the poor and needy, and it's your obligation to destroy them so you can make things all better. These are the very people who have financed your consumerist 'gotta have it now' lifestyles. You believe that you can make government force capitalists to pay you higher wages, and to do what with? Buy more shit on credit! Keep on feeding your never-ending addiction to materialism. You're like a drug addict, you don't realize you have a problem. No one can talk sense to you anymore, you've gone over the edge. And now... you want to take the whole goddamn country with you!

 

[Boss]

You are making a valid point here, there are times when a finance rate is so low that it makes more sense to finance and keep your money earning interest. HOWEVER.... and this is huge... In MOST cases, you can make a better bottom-line deal with cash because the dealer doesn't have to pay the financial commissions and such. The cut rate financing is a gimmick to get you in the door and sell you a car. Unless you have stellar credit, you're never going to qualify for that rate anyway, so the point is moot.

That's right, and I pointed it out earlier. I got 500 dollars off my car because I paid cash. Investments aren't making much right now, and surely weren't in 2012 when I bought the car, so it was definitely beneficial to pay cash. I pay 500 less for the car, and pay taxes on a sale price of 500 less, and then pay registration fees on a car for 500 dollars less.

It adds up.

I have an even better story....

A few years ago, my oldest daughter (34) had saved up $12k for a new car. She had researched the cars available and picked one she wanted. The sticker price was $20k and the dealer was offering 0% financing for 3 years, so she figured to finance $8k at 0% and get the car. She had already sat down with the salesman and worked the deal. She brought the deal to me for my advice as my kids normally do in financial matters. She was excited to tell me that she had actually bargained the dealer down $500 off the sticker price, since she was putting so much down. I advised her to hold off on the purchase for a bit.

This was in July, and what I knew was, the new models come out in September. Dealership floorplans have to make way for the new cars and as time draws near, they will discount the old model year just to get rid of it. My daughter was impatient, she was afraid her car would be sold, and as it turned out... it was! She was a little disappointed, I had cost her the car deal. BUT, we began looking around at other dealerships and found the same exact car in Memphis, TN. This was now late September. We went to the bank and withdrew $12k cash from her account and headed to Memphis.

When we arrived at the dealership, there sat the car carrier in the lot, unloading the new model year. We had never been here before, never talked to anyone at the dealership. And there was her car, the exact model and color she wanted, and the sticker price was relatively the same as the one she had picked out before. We walked into the dealership and asked for the Sales Manager. He came and sat down with us in a small cubicle. I pulled out $12k in cash and laid it on his desk, told him the stock number of the car on the lot I wanted to buy. He went and got the invoice and paperwork on the car and came back. He said... "Sorry, that car is listed at $20k, and the best I can do is $18.5... but we can finance the remainder!"

I gathered up the cash on his desk and said, "We're going to lunch, here is my cell phone number if you change your mind. We'll be in Memphis for about another two hours." And we left. Of course, my daughter was disappointed again, she just knew we'd lost yet another chance to get the car she wanted. We went and had lunch. Within an hour, I get a call from the guy... "Come back and let's do business!" We drove the car home for $8k under sticker. Why? Because CASH TALKS!

 

[paulitician]

Slave Labor has always been the goal. And i would say American Corporations have achieved their goal for the most part. Wages are sufficiently shitty for them now. They're content.

 

[Unkotare]

Slave Labor has always been the goal. ...

Your emotionally-driven misuse of the term "slave" marks you as yet another mindless, leftist drone. The offensive misuse of language that animals like you have been trained to repeat does no one any good. Go shit on a police car and sleep in the middle of a busy street, punk.

 

[airplanemechanic]

I've never heard of a car listing for 20k selling for 12. Even cash. I checked with multiple dealers and a few came back with the exact same price. They told me the profit margin isn't that high on these small cars so not a ton of room to wiggle which I believe. That dealership sold that car for a loss, no doubt.

 

[paulitician]

Anyone who tries to argue that shitty wages are actually a 'Good Thing', is sadly demented. I get kinda sad watching many of my Republican friends sheepishly worshipping Corporations. Sometimes it's ok to defend the Workers. They need defending. The Corporations are not always right.

Being a 'Good Capitalist' doesn't mean you have to be a Corporate Bootlicker. I know i'm gonna catch hell for saying that, but it is what it is.

 

[airplanemechanic]

If you aren't happy with your wage, find another job. It is the worker who chooses to work for the employer. I've never seen a single employee recruited at gunpoint for slave labor.

 

[paulitician]

Slave Labor has always been the goal. ...

Your emotionally-driven misuse of the term "slave" marks you as yet another mindless, leftist drone. The offensive misuse of language that animals like you have been trained to repeat does no one any good. Go shit on a police car and sleep in the middle of a busy street, punk.

There is no such thing as a 'Happy Slave.' Remember that next time you visit Walmart and see the misery written all over their Workers' faces. So forget about 5-Star Service for 1-Star pay. It ain't gonna happen. They actually hate you. That's the truth.

 

[Unkotare]

There is no such thing as a 'Happy Slave.' ...

You clearly don't know what the word "slave" means, you ignorant fucking lowlife.

 

[Redfish]

I would love to see businesses struggle terribly to fill low wage jobs but that will never happen because for some reason people keep applying for them. Why I will never know. Frankly we don't need eve one more minimum wage job. They do nothing for the economy

Are you serious?

"Businesses offer only minimum wage jobs and when people take those jobs to feed themselves, it's their fault?"

That's a good one. Kinda like blaming welfare recipients for setting their own pay too low.

1% of the workforce is making minimum wage, most of them are part time teens making pocket money. No one is making a minimum wage job their lifetime career.

This is a bullshit left wing issue that has absolutely no impact on the economy.

If you raise the minimum wage, there will be fewer part time jobs for teens, how will that help anyone?

I am waiting for an answer from one of you dems or libs.

 

[DriftingSand]

Many of us talk about the economy, leftists talk about a "living wage," and righties (who deny the existence of such a thing) often talk about "wage stagnation." One often wonders how righties can talk about "wage stagnation" when they deny the existence of the concept "living wage."

Well, here's my definition, and it's best that we all have a non-partisan definition from which we can measure economic success for the common man (this definition is localized, meaning it is relative to location where one lives).

"Living Wage: A wage that allows a man to support a stay-at-home wife and two children by being able to pay rent, electric, heating, water, laundry, basic healthcare and three good meals a day in the place he currently resides."

Notice that the following are not present: Mortgage, car-gas, car insurance, premium health insurance...etc...because you have to work harder/improve your skills/education for these things.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for my opinion:

With over 155 taxes on a loaf of bread, and steady inflation from the money printing presses, there's no doubt that most American males cannot procure the Living Wage that they should earn.

In my opinion, that rapacious taxation of the modern welfare state (money printing INFLATION is also considered a tax) has made the current wages that were OK in the past incapable of fulfilling the above definition today.

The answer is NOT to increase the minimum wage...because the minimum wage to 2014 was more than enough for a man to provide for his family 50 years ago. The answer is abolition of the welfare state, the repeal of the Regulation police and the REPUDIATION of Keynesian economic policy.

I agree with the definition but don't believe the ideal is reachable in today's job market/economy. If hamburger flippers are going to make $15.00 per hour then my wage should double as well (if we have any hope of keeping up with inflation and all of those hidden fees, penalties, charges, etc.).

 

[Redfish]

Slave Labor has always been the goal. ...

Your emotionally-driven misuse of the term "slave" marks you as yet another mindless, leftist drone. The offensive misuse of language that animals like you have been trained to repeat does no one any good. Go shit on a police car and sleep in the middle of a busy street, punk.

There is no such thing as a 'Happy Slave.' Remember that next time you visit Walmart and see the misery written all over their Workers' faces. So forget about 5-Star Service for 1-Star pay. It ain't gonna happen. They actually hate you. That's the truth.

are any of them forced to work for walmart?

 

[Unkotare]

I agree with the definition but don't believe the ideal is reachable in today's job market/economy. If hamburger flippers are going to make $15.00 per hour then my wage should double as well (if we have any hope of keeping up with inflation and all of those hidden fees, penalties, charges, etc.).

The real goal of the left is for everyone to give the same (100% of earnings, and the government will just take that before you get it to make it easier) and everyone to get the same (whatever mediocre shit the government decides is good enough for everyone but the 'elite').

 

[paulitician]

Slave Labor has always been the goal. ...

Your emotionally-driven misuse of the term "slave" marks you as yet another mindless, leftist drone. The offensive misuse of language that animals like you have been trained to repeat does no one any good. Go shit on a police car and sleep in the middle of a busy street, punk.

There is no such thing as a 'Happy Slave.' Remember that next time you visit Walmart and see the misery written all over their Workers' faces. So forget about 5-Star Service for 1-Star pay. It ain't gonna happen. They actually hate you. That's the truth.

are any of them forced to work for walmart?

I have a feeling you're one of those who constantly bitches about 'Poor Service' at Walmart and so on. You expect that 5-Star Service for 1-Star Pay. Well, let me break the news to ya. There is no such thing as a 'Happy Slave.' They're miserable and they hate you. They are far from being good productive workers.

I know this because i had a relative who worked in Management at Walmart for years. Its workers are miserable and angry. And they have good reason. Better-compensated workers are better workers for the most part.

 

[Boss]

Here's a tip for all those who are reading these threads with an objective mind:

Whenever you see a poster consistently using the word "Workers" to describe employees of capitalist operations, you know that what you have is a Marxist who has been brainwashed by 19th century Marxist propaganda. They may sell themselves as Libertarians or even Conservatives, they are lying. Don't be fooled. The very terminology they use gives them away every time.

We don't actually have "Workers" in this country. We are a free market, free enterprise system of capitalism. This means people are free to be whatever they choose to be, and don't have to be "workers." They are employees performing a task for a capitalist who employed them, and it was totally their choice to do the task at the agreed wage.

The term "Workers" comes from the 'class' systems found in 19th century European and Asian dynasties, where a certain group of people are relegated to such a status by the ruling class. In order to "sell" Marxism here, they must convince you that such a system exists here, when in fact, it simply doesn't.

 

[paulitician]

I agree with the definition but don't believe the ideal is reachable in today's job market/economy. If hamburger flippers are going to make $15.00 per hour then my wage should double as well (if we have any hope of keeping up with inflation and all of those hidden fees, penalties, charges, etc.).

The real goal of the left is for everyone to give the same (100% of earnings, and the government will just take that before you get it to make it easier) and everyone to get the same (whatever mediocre shit the government decides is good enough for everyone but the 'elite').

Come on man, shitty wages are not a 'Good Thing.' You have to know that, no? Being a 'Good Capitalist' doesn't mean you have to be a loyal Corporate Bootlicker. It's ok to stand up for the Workers sometimes. No one's gonna confiscate your 'Good Capitalist' card.

 

[Unkotare]

I agree with the definition but don't believe the ideal is reachable in today's job market/economy. If hamburger flippers are going to make $15.00 per hour then my wage should double as well (if we have any hope of keeping up with inflation and all of those hidden fees, penalties, charges, etc.).

The real goal of the left is for everyone to give the same (100% of earnings, and the government will just take that before you get it to make it easier) and everyone to get the same (whatever mediocre shit the government decides is good enough for everyone but the 'elite').

Come on man, shitty wages are not a 'Good Thing.' You have to know that, no? Being a 'Good Capitalist' doesn't mean you have to be a loyal Corporate Bootlicker. It's ok to stand up for the Workers sometimes. No one's gonna confiscate your 'Good Capitalist' card.

Tell your handlers you need more training for this work, stooge. You are a very ineffective online propagandist. Whatever they are paying you is too much.

 

[paulitician]

I agree with the definition but don't believe the ideal is reachable in today's job market/economy. If hamburger flippers are going to make $15.00 per hour then my wage should double as well (if we have any hope of keeping up with inflation and all of those hidden fees, penalties, charges, etc.).

The real goal of the left is for everyone to give the same (100% of earnings, and the government will just take that before you get it to make it easier) and everyone to get the same (whatever mediocre shit the government decides is good enough for everyone but the 'elite').

Come on man, shitty wages are not a 'Good Thing.' You have to know that, no? Being a 'Good Capitalist' doesn't mean you have to be a loyal Corporate Bootlicker. It's ok to stand up for the Workers sometimes. No one's gonna confiscate your 'Good Capitalist' card.

Tell your handlers you need more training for this work, stooge. You are a very ineffective online propagandist. Whatever they are paying you is too much.

Man, you need to get to Church. Jesus can help. Seriously, you don't always have to defend the Corporations. It's ok to stand up for the Workers sometimes. No one's gonna kick you outta the 'Good Capitalist' club.

Shitty wages are not a 'Good Thing.' Better compensated workers are better workers for the most part. In the end, it's a Win/Win for everyone.

 

[Boss]

I've never heard of a car listing for 20k selling for 12. Even cash. I checked with multiple dealers and a few came back with the exact same price. They told me the profit margin isn't that high on these small cars so not a ton of room to wiggle which I believe. That dealership sold that car for a loss, no doubt.

Oh, I am sure they did, I saw their invoice. But they needed to get rid of the car and I capitalized on that need. They knew that it was costing them money to keep that car on the lot with the new cars coming in. No one is going to buy an "old" car when the new ones are here. It may have sat there another 2-3 months before it sold. Here, they had the opportunity to get rid of it and do so with a cash transaction. Dealers LOVE cash transactions because there is no financial commission to pay out.

Now... this doesn't work every single time for all cars. If the car is popular and hard to find, maybe the guy tells me to go suck an egg? But for this particular car the 'planets aligned' and we made the deal. That particular model was completely redesigned for the new year, and that was one of the keys to it all. It was also the high end line, which meant the markup was higher.

 

[Unkotare]

Shitty wages are not a 'Good Thing.' Better compensated workers are better workers for the most part. In the end, it's a Win/Win for everyone.

Maybe if your handlers paid you more you would be better at this online propaganda work. As it is now, you are worthless.