The Definition of a "Living Wage"

[Mac1958]

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Cripes, let each fucking state decide, they have their own situations and conditions, and let's get the fuck on with our lives.

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[eagle1462010]

Yay! Make the United States the only developed country on planet Earth without any welfare!! Sure-fire success!

On a more serious note - Welfare alone does not cause inflation, It's a natural byproduct of the banking system we have. The debt gets bigger because we need debt to pay off the debt which makes the debt bigger.

Put it this way: You start with a pool of money (principal) from a loan, the loan needs to be paid off with principal and interest. The money pool you started with only has principal...where do you get the interest money from? Take out another loan...which also has interest....which makes the overall amount of money you owe bigger (and makes the money pool itself bigger too...IE Inflation). The cycle never ends, it's just a time-lag between the loan being created and the loan being paid back that we depend on to make the system function.

What happens when you stop taking out loans? The money starts being paid back...great right? Wrong, the money being paid back lowers the money supply, leading to deflation. Deflation is bad because it means money isn't circulating and loans aren't being made. Stopping the flow of debt doesn't solve the problem....it just leads to another one.

Trying to do away with inflation is a pipe dream...and tying it to Government Welfare programs is a Shroom experience.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The person in the story enters into the situation, erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.

And....if NOBODY will work for 8.50 an hour...is that guy suddenly worth more? You must answer that he is. Same guy. Same choices made in his life. Same skills. Same intellect. Worth more. It's fucking magic!

That is why we need strong labor unions. They help the working class with leverage. Labor unions are like magic!

 

[zeke]

You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.[/QUOTE]



But that isn't what you first said now is it? In case you don't quite understand how a market place works, when you have more people looking for work than there are available jobs, guess what. The ability to drive labor costs higher has almost nothing to do with levels of skill and EVERYTHING to do with good ole supply and demand.

But I really like how you went from here;

erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you.

Hey, make up your mind.

 

[Vastator]

Has everything to do with skill. An employer decides what skill sets he wishes to pay for, and how much.
Bluntly; a persons 2 year degree in blah blah; is of no value to the employer, when all he needs is a shopping cart chaser.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Pipe Dream is that creating more and more debt because of the manipulation of Paper requires it is the pipe dream of a drug addict....................

It requires more paper to pay for the other paper it already created.........It has consequences by lowering the value of the paper, and thus causing more paper to pay for basic goods and services..........the only reason the dollar has any real value at all now is because it is the world's reserve currency..........and thus we can borrow our asses off as long as it remains in that position.............lose that position and REALITY WILL SET IN..............and you will INFLATION so high that you might as well burn the currency............

This has happened to countries in history, and only a fool would think it can't happen again.

Of course they will say LOOK..........SEE...........the value of our currency is rising.........but what they never tell you is that the rest of the world is mass producing paper as well...........so it's a PAPER WAR on who can make their paper more valuable than the other paper as they all manipulate the values instead of the values being based completely on trade, REAL VALUE, and a system that requires a Standard to ensure this.............

A Living Wage is the wage needed to meet the 3 major items necessary to survive..............FOOD, SHELTER, AND CLOTHING.............All humans need this to live on this planet...........so when talking about a definition for it..................that would be my version.............

The Minimum Wage and Living Wage argument do not address the major problem in this country.........It is ISSUE created by the IGNORANT KEY STONE COPS of KEYNES ECONOMICS......................

Let the party begin on this one.

 

[Vastator]

Drive labor rates up? Who would want to do that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Many of us talk about the economy, leftists talk about a "living wage," and righties (who deny the existence of such a thing) often talk about "wage stagnation." One often wonders how righties can talk about "wage stagnation" when they deny the existence of the concept "living wage."

Well, here's my definition, and it's best that we all have a non-partisan definition from which we can measure economic success for the common man (this definition is localized, meaning it is relative to location where one lives).

"Living Wage: A wage that allows a man to support a stay-at-home wife and two children by being able to pay rent, electric, heating, water, laundry, basic healthcare and three good meals a day in the place he currently resides."

Notice that the following are not present: Mortgage, car-gas, car insurance, premium health insurance...etc...because you have to work harder/improve your skills/education for these things.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for my opinion:

With over 155 taxes on a loaf of bread, and steady inflation from the money printing presses, there's no doubt that most American males cannot procure the Living Wage that they should earn.

In my opinion, that rapacious taxation of the modern welfare state (money printing INFLATION is also considered a tax) has made the current wages that were OK in the past incapable of fulfilling the above definition today.

The answer is NOT to increase the minimum wage...because the minimum wage to 2014 was more than enough for a man to provide for his family 50 years ago. The answer is abolition of the welfare state, the repeal of the Regulation police and the REPUDIATION of Keynesian economic policy.

The way to create good paying jobs is to return to the days of uninspected food?

lol, you get dumber every fucking day.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The idea that labor will do just fine without any protection/assistance from the government sounds like a concept concocted by a robber baron think tank.

 

[Vastator]

The person in the story enters into the situation, erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.

And....if NOBODY will work for 8.50 an hour...
But that is not the case.

is that guy suddenly worth more? You must answer that he is.
No. I do not.
Same guy. Same choices made in his life. Same skills. Same intellect. Worth more. It's fucking magic!

No not magic. Market.

That is why we need strong labor unions. They help the working class with leverage. Labor unions are like magic!

Leverage? Oh yeah... PC speak for extortion.

 

[zeke]

Has everything to do with skill. An employer decides what skill sets he wishes to pay for, and how much.
Bluntly; a persons 2 year degree in blah blah; is of no value to the employer, when all he needs is a shopping cart chaser.

And it is because of people like you who are only interested in keeping labor costs as low as possible for companies like a Walmart, that we need labor unions now more than ever.

Lets let the rich union reps negotiate wages with the rich managers and owners. A much more fair outcome would happen.

And I read where you are all for employees negotiating wages. It would just be a lot easier to let the unions do it.

 

[zeke]

The person in the story enters into the situation, erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.

And....if NOBODY will work for 8.50 an hour...
But that is not the case.

is that guy suddenly worth more? You must answer that he is.
No. I do not.
Same guy. Same choices made in his life. Same skills. Same intellect. Worth more. It's fucking magic!

No not magic. Market.

That is why we need strong labor unions. They help the working class with leverage. Labor unions are like magic!

Leverage? Oh yeah... PC speak for extortion.

Extortion? LMAO. Who is it being "extorted". Since when is "negotiating" considered "extortion"? What you don't like is the fact that there is strength in numbers. It's ok for the companies to use their strength to their advantage. But heaven forbid if the labor does it. Fuck that.

 

[Vastator]

Its always easier to let someone else fight your own battles.

 

[Eric Cartman]

The person in the story enters into the situation, erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.

And....if NOBODY will work for 8.50 an hour...
But that is not the case.

is that guy suddenly worth more? You must answer that he is.
No. I do not.
Same guy. Same choices made in his life. Same skills. Same intellect. Worth more. It's fucking magic!

No not magic. Market.

That is why we need strong labor unions. They help the working class with leverage. Labor unions are like magic!

Leverage? Oh yeah... PC speak for extortion.

So owner can consolidate power and form corporations giving them better buying power (including labor) but if workers do it you call it extortion. Pretty warped thinking.


Lets play a game. It is called I win, you lose... and btw there is no whining about 'fairness' allowed.

 

[Vastator]

The person in the story enters into the situation, erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.

And....if NOBODY will work for 8.50 an hour...
But that is not the case.

is that guy suddenly worth more? You must answer that he is.
No. I do not.
Same guy. Same choices made in his life. Same skills. Same intellect. Worth more. It's fucking magic!

No not magic. Market.

That is why we need strong labor unions. They help the working class with leverage. Labor unions are like magic!

Leverage? Oh yeah... PC speak for extortion.

Extortion? LMAO. Who is it being "extorted". Since when is "negotiating" considered "extortion"? What you don't like is the fact that there is strength in numbers. It's ok for the companies to use their strength to their advantage. But heaven forbid if the labor does it. Fuck that.

I'm not at all against a person negotiating a better deal or wage. Often times however; these union deals only offer losses to employers, while the labor benefits more, without increasing actual value, and/or output.
Many gravitate toward this mindset because they won't retrain, or change jobs. So they just expect to keep getting paid more for doing the same old job...

 

[LoneLaugher]

The person in the story enters into the situation, erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.

And....if NOBODY will work for 8.50 an hour...
But that is not the case.

is that guy suddenly worth more? You must answer that he is.
No. I do not.
Same guy. Same choices made in his life. Same skills. Same intellect. Worth more. It's fucking magic!

No not magic. Market.

That is why we need strong labor unions. They help the working class with leverage. Labor unions are like magic!

Leverage? Oh yeah... PC speak for extortion.

Extortion? LMAO. Who is it being "extorted". Since when is "negotiating" considered "extortion"? What you don't like is the fact that there is strength in numbers. It's ok for the companies to use their strength to their advantage. But heaven forbid if the labor does it. Fuck that.

I'm not at all against a person negotiating a better deal or wage. Often times however; these union deals only offer losses to employers, while the labor benefits more, without increasing actual value, and/or output.
Many gravitate toward this mindset because they won't retrain, or change jobs. So they just expect to keep getting paid more for doing the same old job...

There is a pretty good chance that you are the beneficiary of union negotiations that took place long before you got your first pimple.

I wonder if you are arguing for or against your own interests. What do you think?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The person in the story enters into the situation, erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.

And....if NOBODY will work for 8.50 an hour...
But that is not the case.

is that guy suddenly worth more? You must answer that he is.
No. I do not.
Same guy. Same choices made in his life. Same skills. Same intellect. Worth more. It's fucking magic!

No not magic. Market.

That is why we need strong labor unions. They help the working class with leverage. Labor unions are like magic!

Leverage? Oh yeah... PC speak for extortion.

So only labor is capable of whatever it is you call 'extortion'?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Many of us talk about the economy, leftists talk about a "living wage," and righties (who deny the existence of such a thing) often talk about "wage stagnation." One often wonders how righties can talk about "wage stagnation" when they deny the existence of the concept "living wage."

Well, here's my definition, and it's best that we all have a non-partisan definition from which we can measure economic success for the common man (this definition is localized, meaning it is relative to location where one lives).

"Living Wage: A wage that allows a man to support a stay-at-home wife and two children by being able to pay rent, electric, heating, water, laundry, basic healthcare and three good meals a day in the place he currently resides."

Notice that the following are not present: Mortgage, car-gas, car insurance, premium health insurance...etc...because you have to work harder/improve your skills/education for these things.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for my opinion:

With over 155 taxes on a loaf of bread, and steady inflation from the money printing presses, there's no doubt that most American males cannot procure the Living Wage that they should earn.

In my opinion, that rapacious taxation of the modern welfare state (money printing INFLATION is also considered a tax) has made the current wages that were OK in the past incapable of fulfilling the above definition today.

The answer is NOT to increase the minimum wage...because the minimum wage to 2014 was more than enough for a man to provide for his family 50 years ago. The answer is abolition of the welfare state, the repeal of the Regulation police and the REPUDIATION of Keynesian economic policy.

The 'taxes on bread' thing is something Reagan harped on.

It starts like this:

"If people need any more concrete explanation of this, start with the staff of life, a loaf of bread. The simplest thing; the poorest man must have it. Well, there are 151 taxes now in the price of a loaf of bread–it accounts for more than half the cost of a loaf of bread. It begins with the first tax, on the farmer that raised the wheat. Any simpleton can understand that if that farmer cannot get enough money for his wheat, to pay the property tax on his farm, he can’t be a farmer...."

So the first cite is the farmer's property tax. Okay, so you end the property tax. There goes funding for your school district, probably, and your fire department, and your local law enforcement, and the maintenance of your local roads and bridges, and your snow plowing in the winter, for starters,

but hey, I'm enjoying this cheap toast!!!

Inside Ronald Reagan - Reason.com

 

[Redfish]

The real question is this:

Is it the role of the federal government to guarantee every citizen a "living wage" ?

 

[LoneLaugher]

The real question is this:

Is it the role of the federal government to guarantee every citizen a "living wage" ?

Every employed US citizen? Is that what you meant to say?