The Definition of a "Living Wage"

[Redfish]

Here's how it worked for my parents, grandparents, and myself.

If your first job did not pay enough to cover your living expenses, you got a second job.

You worked hard at both jobs until you got raises and promotions so that you could drop the lower paying one. Then you continued to improve your knowledge and skills to get more raises and promotions, eventually getting into upper management and receiving bonuses, stock options and grants, and putting away enough to retire comfortably.

It wasn't always easy, there were some hard times. But the end result was worth it------------and never a penny of government "assistence".

 

[Vastator]

The person in the story enters into the situation, erroneously believing he is worth more than he is. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. Like it or not; you are a commodity. It's your job to market you.

And....if NOBODY will work for 8.50 an hour...
But that is not the case.

is that guy suddenly worth more? You must answer that he is.
No. I do not.
Same guy. Same choices made in his life. Same skills. Same intellect. Worth more. It's fucking magic!

No not magic. Market.

That is why we need strong labor unions. They help the working class with leverage. Labor unions are like magic!

Leverage? Oh yeah... PC speak for extortion.

So only labor is capable of whatever it is you call 'extortion'?

No.

 

[airplanemechanic]

No, a living wage to me is a wage sufficient enough to provide you with a roof over your head and food on your plate. Not the best food, just nourishment. Of course this varies from location to location, but I calculated my yearly living expenses, about 15,000 a year. I own 2 cars and a motorcycle, all insured properly, a 2000sq ft brick house on an acre of treed land and a boat. I eat just fine. However, I do not:

1. subscribe to TV service. This doesn't mean I don't own a TV. I do, a 60" LED. I have an antenna, and can catch tons of stations free. I'm big into football and NASCAR, and 90% of those games and races are all on Fox, CBS or ABC or even NBC. I get all those in full HD for free. Why pay?
2. have any contract for my cell phone. Month to month.
3. waste money on anything. If I don't need it I don't buy it. If I don't need it, I sell it if I can, give it away if I can, throw it away if I have to.
4. let my hot water heater stay on. If I want to take a shower, 15-30 min before my shower I turn it on. As soon as I get out, I turn it back off. My electric bill last month was 31 dollars.

I use a credit card with cash back for every purchase. This provides me with up to 350 dollars of additional money each year. Free money, you can't beat it. 5000 of that 15,000 per year is the mortgage payment, to give you an idea of how cheaply I'm really living. I've never taken a cold shower or eaten a cold meal (unless it was supposed to be cold.) I can eat perfectly fine for 125 a month. And I'm having to go on a diet because I have gained weight, so I'm surely not starving.

Living wage doesn't mean "living high on the hog". It means existing comfortably with food clothing and shelter. EVERYTHING else is lagniappe. It also doesn't mean supporting "stay at home moms." Where the hell did you get that idea?

 

[LoneLaugher]

No, a living wage to me is a wage sufficient enough to provide you with a roof over your head and food on your plate. Not the best food, just nourishment. Of course this varies from location to location, but I calculated my yearly living expenses, about 15,000 a year. I own 2 cars and a motorcycle, all insured properly, a 2000sq ft brick house on an acre of treed land and a boat. I eat just fine. However, I do not:

1. subscribe to TV service.
2. have any contract for my cell phone. Month to month.
3. waste money on anything. If I don't need it I don't buy it. If I don't need it, I sell it if I can, give it away if I can, throw it away if I have to.
4. let my hot water heater stay on. If I want to take a shower, 15-30 min before my shower I turn it on. As soon as I get out, I turn it back off. My electric bill last month was 31 dollars.

I use a credit card with cash back for every purchase. This provides me with up to 350 dollars of additional money each year. Free money, you can't beat it. 5000 of that 15,000 per year is the mortgage payment, to give you an idea of how cheaply I'm really living. I've never taken a cold shower or eaten a cold meal (unless it was supposed to be cold.) I can eat perfectly fine for 125 a month. And I'm having to go on a diet because I have gained weight, so I'm surely not starving.

Living wage doesn't mean "living high on the hog". It means existing comfortably with food clothing and shelter. EVERYTHING else is lagniappe.

Holy shit! Its the American dream!

 

[Contumacious]

Contumacious the definition doesn't differentiate between government or non-government involvement in the contract. Any wage, regardless of government action, that doesn't meet that requirement, is not a living wage.

In a FREE COUNTRY individuals try to obtain a "living wage" through an employment contract - not by using corrupt bureaucrats , to compel what you believe to be adequate compensation.

.


Living Wage: A wage obtained through a negotiated employment contract in which there is NO government involvement and which allows a man to support a stay-at-home wife and two children by being able to pay rent, electric, heating, water, laundry, basic healthcare and three good meals a day in the place he currently resides."

 

[Contumacious]

Fair? How is it unfair? Are they not paying their labor at the agreed upon rate?

How is it fair to work 50 hours a week and live like shit, while a few men at the top live like kings? While, you're the one doing most of the heavy lifting and hard work.

Demanding that the government provides you a welfare/warfare police state costs money.


Taxpayers tax freedom occurs in July - so you are working for approx 7 months to pay for the government.

Enjoy living in shit.

.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Oh yea, to make 15,000 a year, you only need to make 7.50 an hour for a full time job. Amazing, isn't it? 25 cents an hour above legal minimum wage. So you CAN live just fine on minimum wage.

 

[Roadrunner]

Many of us talk about the economy, leftists talk about a "living wage," and righties (who deny the existence of such a thing) often talk about "wage stagnation." One often wonders how righties can talk about "wage stagnation" when they deny the existence of the concept "living wage."

Well, here's my definition, and it's best that we all have a non-partisan definition from which we can measure economic success for the common man (this definition is localized, meaning it is relative to location where one lives).

"Living Wage: A wage that allows a man to support a stay-at-home wife and two children by being able to pay rent, electric, heating, water, laundry, basic healthcare and three good meals a day in the place he currently resides."

Notice that the following are not present: Mortgage, car-gas, car insurance, premium health insurance...etc...because you have to work harder/improve your skills/education for these things.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now for my opinion:

With over 155 taxes on a loaf of bread, and steady inflation from the money printing presses, there's no doubt that most American males cannot procure the Living Wage that they should earn.

In my opinion, that rapacious taxation of the modern welfare state (money printing INFLATION is also considered a tax) has made the current wages that were OK in the past incapable of fulfilling the above definition today.

The answer is NOT to increase the minimum wage...because the minimum wage to 2014 was more than enough for a man to provide for his family 50 years ago. The answer is abolition of the welfare state, the repeal of the Regulation police and the REPUDIATION of Keynesian economic policy.

You left out tattoos and piercings; "living wage" advocates want their tattoos and piercings.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0728.pdf

The cost of living is relative to where you live...............In some places a Living Wage would be far higher than that of living in an area where the costs are much lower..........

For example...............using Census data

Pryor Creek, OK. Is 84.5 on the Composite Index compared to the rest of the cities on the census

New York (Manhattan), NY is 216.7 on the Composite Index compared to the rest of the cities.......

So a minimum wage for Pryor Creek would put you in the gutter in Manhattan..........

This is because housing in Manhattan is extremely high...................

Now, those seeking higher minimum wages always point to here, here, and here........LOOK LOOK LOOK at these states raising minimum wages...........Why isn't the rest of the country doing the same.....................

I'll tell you why..........because the cost of living there is higher than other regions of the country..............The cost of living and Standard of living in any given area of the country or any area of the World is different................someone on minimum wage in California based on the Federal Rate would be starving and homeless, while the same is not true for someone living in Pryor Creek.................

So, using localized raises in minimum wage for JUSTIFICATION for raises across the nation is not taking into account the overall picture............It is not justification for raising the rates in Pryor Creek, OK...............to match what is needed in Oakland California to survive.................which is why historically minimum wage adjustments were based on the rates of inflation on average for the entire nation...........

Not what is happening in Seattle, Washington.....................

How the CPI IS CALCULATED is a different story altogether............as the Feds have changed the way it is calculated over time.........If older methods of calculations where used today, in the basket of goods.........INFLATION would be at much greater levels than they are today.

 

[Roadrunner]

What's so hard? A "living wage" is one that enables you to pay all your expenses - food, rent, heat, transportation, and the rest.

Now was that so hard?

The only odd thing attached to other people's definitions, is that somehow some of the sillier leftists expect EVERY job to pay that much.

That's like expecting every man to be at least 6 feet tall or taller. It isn't so, and only a fool would expect it to be.

If you use legislation to force the minimum wage to be, say, $8/hr, then all that does is eliminate all jobs that are worth less than that.

When was the last time you pulled into a gas station and had three guys come out to wash your windshield, check the oil and water, and put air in the tires?

Fifty years ago that was common at nearly every gas station. The people doing it were mostly teenagers, working their first job for pocket money, experience in doing what a boss told them, and a good recommendation from their boss for when they moved up to a better-paying job. Then the minimum wage started rising, and all those gas station windshield washers lost their jobs, except at the stations that maintained a separate "full service" island... where the gas cost more. And before long, those jobs went away too.

And all the while the liberal do-gooders kept crowing that they were helping the little guy... while carefully ignoring all the guys who lost their jobs as a result.

The more you hear about a "living wage" - from those same do-gooders - the more jobs are being eliminated below that wage level, whatever it is.

2/3 of minimum wage earners are kids living at home in middle class families.

Unrealistic minimum wage levels have create generations of chronically unemployable unskilled people who never got and kept their first decent job.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0724.pdf

The purchasing power of the dollar is dying over time...........................

Based on the ability to purchase REAL GOODS AND SERVICES............and NOT BASED on what it's value is versus other manipulated paper currencies...........

 

[Roadrunner]

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0728.pdf

The cost of living is relative to where you live...............In some places a Living Wage would be far higher than that of living in an area where the costs are much lower..........

For example...............using Census data

Pryor Creek, OK. Is 84.5 on the Composite Index compared to the rest of the cities on the census

New York (Manhattan), NY is 216.7 on the Composite Index compared to the rest of the cities.......

So a minimum wage for Pryor Creek would put you in the gutter in Manhattan..........

This is because housing in Manhattan is extremely high...................

Now, those seeking higher minimum wages always point to here, here, and here........LOOK LOOK LOOK at these states raising minimum wages...........Why isn't the rest of the country doing the same.....................

I'll tell you why..........because the cost of living there is higher than other regions of the country..............The cost of living and Standard of living in any given area of the country or any area of the World is different................someone on minimum wage in California based on the Federal Rate would be starving and homeless, while the same is not true for someone living in Pryor Creek.................

So, using localized raises in minimum wage for JUSTIFICATION for raises across the nation is not taking into account the overall picture............It is not justification for raising the rates in Pryor Creek, OK...............to match what is needed in Oakland California to survive.................which is why historically minimum wage adjustments were based on the rates of inflation on average for the entire nation...........

Not what is happening in Seattle, Washington.....................

How the CPI IS CALCULATED is a different story altogether............as the Feds have changed the way it is calculated over time.........If older methods of calculations where used today, in the basket of goods.........INFLATION would be at much greater levels than they are today.

Oh yea, to make 15,000 a year, you only need to make 7.50 an hour for a full time job. Amazing, isn't it? 25 cents an hour above legal minimum wage. So you CAN live just fine on minimum wage.

$7.25 minimum wage of today does not buy what $.75 minimum wage of the Depression bought, and FDR made the unemployed/unemployable move into labor camps to get that.

 

[Darkwind]

Contumacious the definition doesn't differentiate between government or non-government involvement in the contract. Any wage, regardless of government action, that doesn't meet that requirement, is not a living wage.

I reject your definition on its face.

To begin with...You state that there should be a living wage. That is nonsense.

Then you go on to include such items as a wife....and two children.....in this definition.

A living wage, by any definition, is the amount of income necessary to provide ONE individual with the means to feed and house ONLY themselves.

ANYTHING more is extra and requires more effort from the individual, NOT from the employer.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0728.pdf

The cost of living is relative to where you live...............In some places a Living Wage would be far higher than that of living in an area where the costs are much lower..........

For example...............using Census data

Pryor Creek, OK. Is 84.5 on the Composite Index compared to the rest of the cities on the census

New York (Manhattan), NY is 216.7 on the Composite Index compared to the rest of the cities.......

So a minimum wage for Pryor Creek would put you in the gutter in Manhattan..........

This is because housing in Manhattan is extremely high...................

Now, those seeking higher minimum wages always point to here, here, and here........LOOK LOOK LOOK at these states raising minimum wages...........Why isn't the rest of the country doing the same.....................

I'll tell you why..........because the cost of living there is higher than other regions of the country..............The cost of living and Standard of living in any given area of the country or any area of the World is different................someone on minimum wage in California based on the Federal Rate would be starving and homeless, while the same is not true for someone living in Pryor Creek.................

So, using localized raises in minimum wage for JUSTIFICATION for raises across the nation is not taking into account the overall picture............It is not justification for raising the rates in Pryor Creek, OK...............to match what is needed in Oakland California to survive.................which is why historically minimum wage adjustments were based on the rates of inflation on average for the entire nation...........

Not what is happening in Seattle, Washington.....................

How the CPI IS CALCULATED is a different story altogether............as the Feds have changed the way it is calculated over time.........If older methods of calculations where used today, in the basket of goods.........INFLATION would be at much greater levels than they are today.

Oh yea, to make 15,000 a year, you only need to make 7.50 an hour for a full time job. Amazing, isn't it? 25 cents an hour above legal minimum wage. So you CAN live just fine on minimum wage.

$7.25 minimum wage of today does not buy what $.75 minimum wage of the Depression bought, and FDR made the unemployed/unemployable move into labor camps to get that.

A lot of factors determine that..................and over time it takes more currency for the same basket of goods..............It doesn't change the data I posted. It only takes it further back in time.

 

[airplanemechanic]

$7.25 minimum wage of today does not buy what $.75 minimum wage of the Depression bought, and FDR made the unemployed/unemployable move into labor camps to get that.

7.25 an hour for a full time job is 14,500 dollars a year. If I can live like I'm living for 500 dollars more, that's plenty to live on. And do you know how many workers actually make minimum wage? Any clue?

 

[Darkwind]

What's so hard? A "living wage" is one that enables you to pay all your expenses - food, rent, heat, transportation, and the rest.

And not have nothing but lint in your pocket afterwards.

If you want more than lint, you do more.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0728.pdf

The cost of living is relative to where you live...............In some places a Living Wage would be far higher than that of living in an area where the costs are much lower..........

For example...............using Census data

Pryor Creek, OK. Is 84.5 on the Composite Index compared to the rest of the cities on the census

New York (Manhattan), NY is 216.7 on the Composite Index compared to the rest of the cities.......

So a minimum wage for Pryor Creek would put you in the gutter in Manhattan..........

This is because housing in Manhattan is extremely high...................

Now, those seeking higher minimum wages always point to here, here, and here........LOOK LOOK LOOK at these states raising minimum wages...........Why isn't the rest of the country doing the same.....................

I'll tell you why..........because the cost of living there is higher than other regions of the country..............The cost of living and Standard of living in any given area of the country or any area of the World is different................someone on minimum wage in California based on the Federal Rate would be starving and homeless, while the same is not true for someone living in Pryor Creek.................

So, using localized raises in minimum wage for JUSTIFICATION for raises across the nation is not taking into account the overall picture............It is not justification for raising the rates in Pryor Creek, OK...............to match what is needed in Oakland California to survive.................which is why historically minimum wage adjustments were based on the rates of inflation on average for the entire nation...........

Not what is happening in Seattle, Washington.....................

How the CPI IS CALCULATED is a different story altogether............as the Feds have changed the way it is calculated over time.........If older methods of calculations where used today, in the basket of goods.........INFLATION would be at much greater levels than they are today.

Oh yea, to make 15,000 a year, you only need to make 7.50 an hour for a full time job. Amazing, isn't it? 25 cents an hour above legal minimum wage. So you CAN live just fine on minimum wage.

$7.25 minimum wage of today does not buy what $.75 minimum wage of the Depression bought, and FDR made the unemployed/unemployable move into labor camps to get that.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0725.pdf

SInce 1990...........almost every item on the basket of goods has nearly doubled..............

 

[Boss]

The term "living wage" is a left-wing radicalization of "minimum wage" and that's really all. You see, in order to understand this, you have to understand liberalism. Chasing Utopia is a full-time job! No matter how much we do, no matter how high we increase this mythical "living wage" there will always be MORE needed to reach Utopia. Nothing is ever enough for liberals. Once a victory for something is achieved, the bar is raised and the next crusade begins. In other words, just as "minimum wage" gave way to "living wage" this term will give way to "comfortable wage" or some other clever but ambiguous phrase. Same arguments will apply, nothing ever changes there, just the constant push for more of whatever, because nothing is ever enough.

 

[Contumacious]

Contumacious the definition doesn't differentiate between government or non-government involvement in the contract. Any wage, regardless of government action, that doesn't meet that requirement, is not a living wage.

I reject your definition on its face.

To begin with...You state that there should be a living wage. That is nonsense.

Then you go on to include such items as a wife....and two children.....in this definition.

A living wage, by any definition, is the amount of income necessary to provide ONE individual with the means to feed and house ONLY themselves.

ANYTHING more is extra and requires more effort from the individual, NOT from the employer.

Of course, by a "living wage" he means adequate compensation.

I don't have a problem with him concluding that XYZ dollars constitutes a living wage.


The problem is that typically those folks want to use government bureaucrats to force employers to pay the "living wage".

.

 

[Darkwind]

Contumacious the definition doesn't differentiate between government or non-government involvement in the contract. Any wage, regardless of government action, that doesn't meet that requirement, is not a living wage.

I reject your definition on its face.

To begin with...You state that there should be a living wage. That is nonsense.

Then you go on to include such items as a wife....and two children.....in this definition.

A living wage, by any definition, is the amount of income necessary to provide ONE individual with the means to feed and house ONLY themselves.

ANYTHING more is extra and requires more effort from the individual, NOT from the employer.

Of course, by a "living wage" he means adequate compensation.

I don't have a problem with him concluding that XYZ dollars constitutes a living wage.


The problem is that typically those folks want to use government bureaucrats to force employers to pay the "living wage".

.

I have a problem with all of it.

How suck-assed stupid were your parents (not you personally) that they were too fucking stupid to teach you that you have to earn money to live in this world? And how fucked up were they that they did not teach you that if you want things MORE than the money for shelter and food, you have to go out and earn more money (LONG BEFORE) you actually can have it?