The Dirty Little Truth About the Minimum Wage

There's nothing dirty about it! It is wonderful as it makes sure big corporate can't pay their workers like they do in Vietnam or Africa.

The federal minimum wage is a very hot topic in American policy. Significant figures like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have brought this issue in the light of the media. This has resulted in many Americans falsely associating a wage hike with them simply getting paid more. In fact raising the wage from $7.25 to a figure like $15.00 which most property agree is necessary will have much more complex consequences to the economic infrastructure of America. The Congressional Budget Office projected that a minimum wage increase from $7.25 to $10.10 would result in a loss of 500,000 jobs. In fact take countries that have inflated minimum wages like Sweden or Norway which have an hourly minimum of $25. As result of high wages, these countries have seen decades of stagnant domestic trade and limited earning potential for their citizens. Within specifically America the common argument to raising the minimum wage is the current 7.25 has not kept up with inflation rates since the 60s. Yes this is true and $15 is reasonably close to the margin of the value the $1.46 hourly wage was in 1960. However a raise to this amount may be a positive benefit in the short term but devastating to the future of the u.s dollar. Once the wage is theoretically increased consumers will have more spending power while businesses incur greater costs of operations and respond by raising prices. A 2015 Purdue University study found that raising the wage of fast food restaurant employees to $15 or $22 per hour would result in a price increase of 4.3% and 25% respectively, or a reduction in product size between 12% and 70%. To put it simply a hike will only devalue u.s currency and solve no issues of economic inequality within America.


Well even the ones who benefit kind of get hurt. I have yet to meet a person in retail thats not management that gets 40 hours a week, yet that wage hike (in Texas anyway) would remove most from being able to collect food stamps. And they really arent getting ahead because if McDonald's paid 15+- you damn sure know they will cut hours even more. Best thing to do would be to just work and keep looking.
 
There's nothing dirty about it! It is wonderful as it makes sure big corporate can't pay their workers like they do in Vietnam or Africa.

The federal minimum wage is a very hot topic in American policy. Significant figures like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have brought this issue in the light of the media. This has resulted in many Americans falsely associating a wage hike with them simply getting paid more. In fact raising the wage from $7.25 to a figure like $15.00 which most property agree is necessary will have much more complex consequences to the economic infrastructure of America. The Congressional Budget Office projected that a minimum wage increase from $7.25 to $10.10 would result in a loss of 500,000 jobs. In fact take countries that have inflated minimum wages like Sweden or Norway which have an hourly minimum of $25. As result of high wages, these countries have seen decades of stagnant domestic trade and limited earning potential for their citizens. Within specifically America the common argument to raising the minimum wage is the current 7.25 has not kept up with inflation rates since the 60s. Yes this is true and $15 is reasonably close to the margin of the value the $1.46 hourly wage was in 1960. However a raise to this amount may be a positive benefit in the short term but devastating to the future of the u.s dollar. Once the wage is theoretically increased consumers will have more spending power while businesses incur greater costs of operations and respond by raising prices. A 2015 Purdue University study found that raising the wage of fast food restaurant employees to $15 or $22 per hour would result in a price increase of 4.3% and 25% respectively, or a reduction in product size between 12% and 70%. To put it simply a hike will only devalue u.s currency and solve no issues of economic inequality within America.


Well even the ones who benefit kind of get hurt. I have yet to meet a person in retail thats not management that gets 40 hours a week, yet that wage hike (in Texas anyway) would remove most from being able to collect food stamps. And they really arent getting ahead because if McDonald's paid 15+- you damn sure know they will cut hours even more. Best thing to do would be to just work and keep looking.

Once again the city council of Cleveland rejected the minimum wage increase. The NAACP chimed in to say they won't support the Democrats any longer until they see council to get behind it. Mind you, most all of the council and even the Mayor are all black.

At first, Cleveland wanted to pass the $15.00 minimum wage just for their city. After looking at it, they knew it would drive industry out of the city and into the suburbs which would benefit us greatly, so they all voted it down. Then they thought it would be a great idea if they could trick the county to adopt their plan which they didn't. Why drive that industry not only out of the city, but out of the entire county as well?

When push comes to shove, even Democrats realize the negative effect of increased minimum wage, but won't say it. Buying votes is what it's all about even if it's a net loss in the end.
 
Its simple. If one is smart enough to not apply of a minimum wage deal(cuz they ardent real jobs), then one doesn't make 8 lousy measely bucks an hour. If businesses struggle to fill them which would be a good thing, then everyone wins.
 
There's nothing dirty about it! It is wonderful as it makes sure big corporate can't pay their workers like they do in Vietnam or Africa.

The federal minimum wage is a very hot topic in American policy. Significant figures like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have brought this issue in the light of the media. This has resulted in many Americans falsely associating a wage hike with them simply getting paid more. In fact raising the wage from $7.25 to a figure like $15.00 which most property agree is necessary will have much more complex consequences to the economic infrastructure of America. The Congressional Budget Office projected that a minimum wage increase from $7.25 to $10.10 would result in a loss of 500,000 jobs. In fact take countries that have inflated minimum wages like Sweden or Norway which have an hourly minimum of $25. As result of high wages, these countries have seen decades of stagnant domestic trade and limited earning potential for their citizens. Within specifically America the common argument to raising the minimum wage is the current 7.25 has not kept up with inflation rates since the 60s. Yes this is true and $15 is reasonably close to the margin of the value the $1.46 hourly wage was in 1960. However a raise to this amount may be a positive benefit in the short term but devastating to the future of the u.s dollar. Once the wage is theoretically increased consumers will have more spending power while businesses incur greater costs of operations and respond by raising prices. A 2015 Purdue University study found that raising the wage of fast food restaurant employees to $15 or $22 per hour would result in a price increase of 4.3% and 25% respectively, or a reduction in product size between 12% and 70%. To put it simply a hike will only devalue u.s currency and solve no issues of economic inequality within America.

Antiquity called in with some good news - paragraphs were invented, so your falsehoods don't have to hurt the eyes of the innocent victims that take up reading them.

Here is the CBO study you cite:

The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income

It directly contradicts your claim that MW raises would not increase (real, inflation adjusted) income for low income brakets and would not reduce income gap.

44995-land-figure3b.png


Yes, $10 MW would be expected to cost some jobs and we do have safety net to help those people out but it would also help lift 16 million people out of poverty.

We had $10 (real $2015) minimum wage in the 60's, it was done and it works.
 
There's nothing dirty about it! It is wonderful as it makes sure big corporate can't pay their workers like they do in Vietnam or Africa.

The federal minimum wage is a very hot topic in American policy. Significant figures like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have brought this issue in the light of the media. This has resulted in many Americans falsely associating a wage hike with them simply getting paid more. In fact raising the wage from $7.25 to a figure like $15.00 which most property agree is necessary will have much more complex consequences to the economic infrastructure of America. The Congressional Budget Office projected that a minimum wage increase from $7.25 to $10.10 would result in a loss of 500,000 jobs. In fact take countries that have inflated minimum wages like Sweden or Norway which have an hourly minimum of $25. As result of high wages, these countries have seen decades of stagnant domestic trade and limited earning potential for their citizens. Within specifically America the common argument to raising the minimum wage is the current 7.25 has not kept up with inflation rates since the 60s. Yes this is true and $15 is reasonably close to the margin of the value the $1.46 hourly wage was in 1960. However a raise to this amount may be a positive benefit in the short term but devastating to the future of the u.s dollar. Once the wage is theoretically increased consumers will have more spending power while businesses incur greater costs of operations and respond by raising prices. A 2015 Purdue University study found that raising the wage of fast food restaurant employees to $15 or $22 per hour would result in a price increase of 4.3% and 25% respectively, or a reduction in product size between 12% and 70%. To put it simply a hike will only devalue u.s currency and solve no issues of economic inequality within America.

Antiquity called in with some good news - paragraphs were invented, so your falsehoods don't have to hurt the eyes of the innocent victims that take up reading them.

Here is the CBO study you cite:

Characteristics of minimum wage workers, 2015 : BLS Reports: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

It directly contradicts your claim that MW raises would not increase (real, inflation adjusted) income for low income brakets and would not reduce income gap.

44995-land-figure3b.png


Yes, $10 MW would be expected to cost some jobs and we do have safety net to help those people out but it would also help lift 16 million people out of poverty.

We had $10 (real $2015) minimum wage in the 60's, it was done and it works.

A major flaw in the above chart is the comparison with workers with "families".
The facts are:
In 2015, 78.2 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 54.6 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 900,000 earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 2.6 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 3.3 percent of all hourly paid workers. Of the 2.6 million:
ages 16 to 24 (mostly unmarried with no children) made up 1.15 million.
Ages 25 and older, some of whom MAY have a family...) 1.4 million.
Characteristics of minimum wage workers, 2015 : BLS Reports: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Now the ONE thing that all of these less then 3 million people have in common is that they are definitely unskilled, most likely entry level jobs.
Jobs that require of them basic rudiments of being an employee...i.e.
a) can read /write
b) be on the job every day
c) be on time on the job every day.
These 3 fundamentals CAN be accomplished by robots/kiosks at far less then $15.00 hour!

So given the FACTS why then are we so anxious to put these young people out of work? They are entry level. They can be replaced.
Is that what you want?
 
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A major flaw in the above chart is the comparison with workers with "families".

No there isn't, there is nothing about household data minimum wage effects that is different from individual worker. A lot of "households" are actually single filings.

The rest of what you said is irrelevant.

Yes, minimum wage helps those with low income to earn more than pure free market would dictate - THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.

Free market is not a magic fix all conservatives often think of it as. It is a powerful economic tool, but certainly not without some shortcomings and excesses to be moderated. One of those shortcoming is tendency to big income gaps and concentration of wealth in the hands of few.
 
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Yes, $10 MW would be expected to cost some jobs and we do have safety net to help those people out but it would also help lift 16 million people out of poverty.

We had $10 (real $2015) minimum wage in the 60's, it was done and it works.

It wouldn't lift anyone out of poverty, that's bullshit. No, we did not have $10 min wage in the 60s... more bullshit. What you saw happening in the 60s were service sector jobs completely vanishing forever. When is the last time you had your oil checked by a service station attendant? Milk delivered daily to your door? These kinds of jobs simply vanished in the 60s. Companies had to cut back on customer services because they could no longer afford to pay people to do the jobs. Millions and millions of jobs, mostly for the unskilled worker, were lost forever.

Raising the MW kills jobs and drives up prices across the board. We would actually be better off to ELIMINATE a minimum wage. Let the Free Market determine wages and let the people be free to accept or reject those jobs. The MW acts as an artificial base line for labor cost and it actually results in many companies paying LESS than they might otherwise pay if there were no MW law.
 
A major flaw in the above chart is the comparison with workers with "families".

No there isn't, there is nothing about household data minimum wage effects that is different from individual worker. A lot of "households" are actually single filings.

The rest of what you said is irrelevant.

Yes minimum wage pays low income more than pure free market would - THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.

Wait a minute.... The big issue is family poverty levels and a large majority of the less then 3 million are single people! A large portion probably still live in the parents basement, possibly like you!
As far a relevance... you are telling me that with 30% of a restaurants revenue going for labor that doubling their labor costs would effectively put them out of business is OK? Again remember these less then 3 million are only capable of entry level jobs: be on time and on the job the prime requisite.
Both characteristics can be duplicated by robots/kiosks!
So tell me again the rationale for putting these teenagers out on the street?

In case you don't understand operating expenses for places where most of these minimum wage people work... check this out:
http://www.restaurantowner.com/RN_1.pdf
NOTE... Salaries/wages, benefits.. 30.8% of operating expenses. Double that i.e. $7.25 to $15/hour... out of business!


fastfoodoperatingexpenses.png
 
Yes, $10 MW would be expected to cost some jobs and we do have safety net to help those people out but it would also help lift 16 million people out of poverty.

We had $10 (real $2015) minimum wage in the 60's, it was done and it works.

It wouldn't lift anyone out of poverty, that's bullshit.

I think I'll go with serious studies by economists over your opinion.

These are complex estimates and are a heavy lift, especially for politicaly biased laymen to positively make. Meaning you can maybe criticize something in CBO's studies, but short of that there is no reason to take your word over CBO on this.

What you are proposing is that Minimum Wage is a policy only with downsides and no upsides. That is as spurious on it's face as saying that minimum wage laws have only upsides and no downsides.
 
It might be a good time to point out to antantoo that the OP topic is explaining what the original Minimum Wage was intended to do. While it was sold as help for the working class, it was a devoutly racist policy intended to protect jobs for whites at the expense of blacks and minorities.

You see.... back in the day, those dirty old "nigrahs" were driving down wages for construction workers because they would work for less. So the racist white Democrat politicians came up with this MW scheme to force companies to pay everyone the same wage, knowing that no one would hire a black man to work for a white man's wage. If you have to pay the white man's wage anyway, may as well hire a white man.

Again, from the OP... The last time in America when black unemployment was lower than white unemployment was the year before the first MW law went into effect. That's a true fact.
 
Yes, $10 MW would be expected to cost some jobs and we do have safety net to help those people out but it would also help lift 16 million people out of poverty.

We had $10 (real $2015) minimum wage in the 60's, it was done and it works.

It wouldn't lift anyone out of poverty, that's bullshit.

I think I'll go with serious studies by economists over your opinion.

These are complex estimates and are a heavy lift, especially for politicaly biased laymen to positively make. Meaning you can maybe criticize something in CBO's studies, but short of that there is no reason to take your word over CBO on this.

What you are proposing is that Minimum Wage is a policy only with downsides and no upsides. That is as spurious on it's face as saying that minimum wage laws have only upsides and no downsides.

Reality is entry level employees are being replaced in my local McDonalds AND...
The age of the restaurant self-service kiosks has dawned, and it's the end of fast food as we know it.

McDonald's is striding into the 21st century with the rollout of the "Create Your Taste" touchscreen kiosks, on which custom burgers can be built as well as full-menu ordering.
Fast food workers are becoming obsolete

That is the reality and you and your estimates by CBOs obviously don't take in consideration that labor costs make up almost 30% of
a McDonalds,etc. operating expenses. You want them to raise their prices 30% to cover the $15/hour OR maybe they'll replace the
worker as they are doing with kiosks. Not your choice or mine... but simply economics. Can't get blood out of a turnip...
 
Its simple. If one is smart enough to not apply of a minimum wage deal(cuz they ardent real jobs), then one doesn't make 8 lousy measely bucks an hour. If businesses struggle to fill them which would be a good thing, then everyone wins.


Where would they get $ from? The government?… mommy and daddy? Drug dealing?


.
 
These are complex estimates and are a heavy lift, especially for politicaly biased laymen to positively make. Meaning you can maybe criticize something in CBO's studies, but short of that there is no reason to take your word over CBO on this.

The CBO can only calculate based on known variables. They cannot predict the unknown. That's always the problem with CBO estimates. They are certainly NOT complex estimates or a heavy lift. They are simple estimates based on static data available and nothing more. Predictions made in a vacuum are worthless because we obviously don't live in a vacuum.
 
McDonald's is striding into the 21st century with the rollout of the "Create Your Taste" touchscreen kiosks, on which custom burgers can be built as well as full-menu ordering.

I've actually used these and they are pretty fucking cool. I can't wait until we have them everywhere in America. You can customize you order any way you like... if you want 5 slices of cheese on your cheeseburger, you can order it. And guess what? Your order is NEVER wrong!
 
These are complex estimates and are a heavy lift, especially for politicaly biased laymen to positively make. Meaning you can maybe criticize something in CBO's studies, but short of that there is no reason to take your word over CBO on this.

The CBO can only calculate based on known variables. They cannot predict the unknown. That's always the problem with CBO estimates. They are certainly NOT complex estimates or a heavy lift. They are simple estimates based on static data available and nothing more. Predictions made in a vacuum are worthless because we obviously don't live in a vacuum.

...you aren't saying you can predict the unknown...are you?

They are not "simple" and they are not "static" and they are in "vacuum", you don't know what you are talking about.

You have not given a single reason why your political conclusions should be preferred over serious studies by professional economists.
 
These are complex estimates and are a heavy lift, especially for politicaly biased laymen to positively make. Meaning you can maybe criticize something in CBO's studies, but short of that there is no reason to take your word over CBO on this.

The CBO can only calculate based on known variables. They cannot predict the unknown. That's always the problem with CBO estimates. They are certainly NOT complex estimates or a heavy lift. They are simple estimates based on static data available and nothing more. Predictions made in a vacuum are worthless because we obviously don't live in a vacuum.


....the data given them.
Hence the false conclusions they provided to support ObamaCare early on.
 
These are complex estimates and are a heavy lift, especially for politicaly biased laymen to positively make. Meaning you can maybe criticize something in CBO's studies, but short of that there is no reason to take your word over CBO on this.

The CBO can only calculate based on known variables. They cannot predict the unknown. That's always the problem with CBO estimates. They are certainly NOT complex estimates or a heavy lift. They are simple estimates based on static data available and nothing more. Predictions made in a vacuum are worthless because we obviously don't live in a vacuum.

...you aren't saying you can predict the unknown...are you?

They are not "simple" and they are not "static" and they are in "vacuum", you don't know what you are talking about.

You have not given a single reason why your political conclusions should be preferred over serious studies by professional economists.

No, I can predict what we know is going to happen. The CBO is wrong about more than they are right. They always have been. For instance, the CBO estimated the Reagan tax cuts would cost us nearly a trillion dollars in tax revenues... why? Because they calculated based on the current tax revenues and trends for the last 5 years and they did not factor increased number of jobs and taxpayers which were the results of the tax cuts. Instead of costing us nearly a trillion dollars, the Reagan tax cut actually generated 40% MORE revenue.

They have done the same thing with tax increases, estimating based on current rates and trends without factoring in the actual results of the tax increase. This happens with programs as well... like Obamacare. The CBO claimed it would save $10 trillion over 10 years. It's clearly not going to do so. Time and time again, they make their predictions based on static information without regard for the real-world effects of policy. It is basically useless information other than for demagogues who want to tout their predictions.
 
No, I can predict what we know is going to happen. The CBO is wrong about more than they are right

The sheer arrogance of what you are saying is mind blowing.

I have no problem comparing CBO's record against yours.
 
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This happens with programs as well... like Obamacare. The CBO claimed it would save $10 trillion over 10 years.

WTF? That is just not true. I don't know where you pull nonsense like that from
 
For instance, the CBO estimated the Reagan tax cuts would cost us nearly a trillion dollars in tax revenues... why? Because they calculated based on the current tax revenues and trends for the last 5 years and they did not factor increased number of jobs and taxpayers which were the results of the tax cuts. Instead of costing us nearly a trillion dollars, the Reagan tax cut actually generated 40% MORE revenue.


That is an ignorant statement.

Ignorant of the fact that CORRELATION IS NOT PROOF OF CAUSATION.

Tax rate changes do not prevent economy from generating more or less TOTAL taxes, because first and foremost they are hinged on bussiness cycle and economic growth from poulation and technology expansion. Thats why through the long term we will ALWAYS collect more revenues. That is not a proof of tax-cuts paying for themselves any more than it is proof of spending paying for itself.

There is not a single reputable economist that would say that Reagan's or Bush's broad tax cuts grew economy so much as to make up for their upfront revenue cost.

Bush's own chair of economic advisers (and a tax cut supporting conservative) estimated dynamic effects to recoup only a fraction of upfront revenue loss from his tax-cut policy.

In a paper on dynamic scoring, written while I was working at the White House, Matthew Weinzierl and I estimated that a broad-based income tax cut (applying to both capital and labor income) would recoup only about a quarter of the lost revenue through supply-side growth effects.

Greg Mankiw's Blog: On Charlatans and Cranks
 
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