The € EURO thread

[Euroconservativ]

Ireland votes this Thursday on the new fiscal austerity plan......Greece goeas back to vote for a new gov, again, June 17th.....gonna be an interesting month.

The micks should stay on course and say yes, BUT, if they say no, I don't blame them. they were the first to have tightened their belts and comparably, Greece has gotten away with murder....

All the Southern countries are rejecting austerity, so why should Ireland play the martyr?

Are you sure? Italy is running a budget deficit below 2% this year. They are passing reforms that get strong domestic opposition, leading to a few radical strikes. But Italy is still under attack.

Merkel said that Italy will balance the budget even before Germany. But what is the cost? Collapsing private consumption and public investment and record unemployment.

The situation is just plain absurd. If the ECB was a lender of last resort for states (like the Fed, the BoE, the BoJ or any other major central bank in the world) we would not be in this mess. You all must remember that Eurozone states have no monetary sovereignty. The most outrageous thing is that the ECB lends to private banks at 1%... so they can buy government debt at 5%. Germany (who is paying 0.07% interest for 2 years debt) does not want it to change. They fear inflation.

 

[Euroconservativ]

If nobody changes this situation, Germany will fall in recession this year. No doubt about it. And USA too, as the crisis eventually turns global.

 

[SayMyName]

I think most speculation by Americans on the fate and condition of the euro somewhat sophmoric. In the end, the euro will be just fine with the support of the many nations that do want it to succeed. Germany will lead that way, and prove once again why she is the dynamic power that she is in Europe, and a rising stalwart on the international stage.

 

[Toro]

Merkel rejects eurobonds

Merkel Rejects Debt Sharing as Obama Urges End to Crisis Cloud - Bloomberg


Spain's yields keep rising

Rajoy


"Permanent" euro bailout fund to start July 9

European Union Said to Prepare Start of ESM for July 9 - Bloomberg


In the meantime, gold was up $66.

AM-PM Roundup with Jim Wyckoff

 

[KissMy]

The worlds third largest debt market was downgraded. Egan-Jones Downgrades Italy To B+ From BB; Outlook Negative. An Italian default will completely destroy the planets financial system.

 

[KissMy]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tnmkkLo1mE"]Goldman Sachs, Eurostat, and cooked Greek books, part1/2[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H03ZlgLEyDo"]Goldman Sachs, Eurostat, and cooked Greek books, part2/2[/ame]

 

[KissMy]

Fed Charles Evans says goal is to get unemployment down to 7% & inflation up to 3%.

 

[Trajan]

Fed Charles Evans says goal is to get unemployment down to 7% & inflation up to 3%.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Fed Charles Evans says goal is to get unemployment down to 7% & inflation up to 3%.

In other words, pay off much of the nations debt by stealing purchasing power from those on fixed incomes.

How humanitarian.

 

[Trajan]

Fed Charles Evans says goal is to get unemployment down to 7% & inflation up to 3%.

In other words, pay off much of the nations debt by stealing purchasing power from those on fixed incomes.

How humanitarian.

its the ole Fed hack octopus re-distribution policy.

 

[KissMy]

Europe is going to have to create an FDIC type insurance to prevent bank runs.

 

[KissMy]

Fitch's downgraded Spain's credit rating by three notches from A to BBB.

Spain needs another $150 billion bailout. Germany has loaned Spain $216 billion and France has loaned Spain $201 billion.

 

[Trajan]

Fitch's downgraded Spain's credit rating by three notches from A to BBB.

Spain needs another $150 billion bailout. Germany has loaned Spain $216 billion and France has loaned Spain $201 billion.

edit-


wait a minute- if I recall their GDP is what, in 2010, 1.4 $trillion? so, 216 + 201 + 150+ 24= 591 Bn.( 40Bn below not inc.) they need roughly a 50% of gdp boost? get the fuc! outta here....

madness, countries need equal to half their yearly productivity to 'survive', so where does the growth come from afterward? I have not heard word 1 on that....the EU is a ship of fools.

and.....


A report from the International Monetary Fund released estimated Spanish banks need a recapitalization injection of at least (EURO)40 billion ($50 billion) following a stress test it performed on the country's financial sector. That report came out early Saturday, three days ahead of schedule, underscoring the urgency of the situation.

News from The Associated Press

 

[KissMy]

Euro zone finance ministers just agreed to lend Spain 100 billion euros ($125 billion) to shore up its teetering banks!

Insiders knew this was coming. That is why the market went wild for the last 3 days.

 

[Trajan]

yup, you're right.

so this is now the game, the EU will lay out half the productivity of said nation to......do what again?


where, does this get them, in real terms? Its a loan not a gift....

 

[Trajan]

uh huh...I think I have an answer.

Details Emerge About Spain's Cramming Down "Bailout" Loan

El Pais reports: "European aid (through the EFSF or ESM) are actually loans to recapitalize the financial system, which the Treasury. Again, the State comes to the rescue of the bank. Of course, it is soft loans, in much better shape than the market: around 3%, according to sources familiar with the negotiations between Spain and its European partners. Faced with this 3%, Treasury currently pays interest of 6% over the 10-year debt." And there you have it: Bankruptcy 101, lesson on Equitable Subordination, where one always gets a priming DIP at terms much better than other classes of debt, when secured and guaranteed by unencumbered assets. Such as what is happening here, because for one to accept 3% rate compared to 6% for 10 Year Spanish GUCs, there obviously has to be some security incentive. It also means that, as we suggested yesterday, subordination has come to Spain.

El Pais continues:

In return for subsidized rates, Spain will cede sovereignty over its financial system, but also lose tax sovereignty, contrary to what the Government said yesterday.

So yes, there will be conditions in exchange for priming. As anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of waterfall analysis could have suggested.

More Google translated:

The Economy Minister Luis de Guindos, said flatly that the only conditionality for banks will require assistance . "There will be no fiscal or macroeconomic conditions," he said repeatedly in a crowded press conference, reports Amanda Mars. But he amended the flat Eurogroup: along with the praise for the Spanish efforts to address their varied and acute imbalances, the communique finance ministers of the euro area makes it clear otherwise. Europe monitored with an iron fist that Madrid continue on the path of fiscal consolidation, structural reforms and labor market. "We will look closely and regularly review progress in these areas, in parallel with financial assistance," the statement said.

The biggest problem, as Greece learned, is that once the priming begins, and the various sovereign debt classes start becoming subordinated, it doesn't end, until the PSI. At which point the crammed down debt gets impaired and receives 20-some cents on the dollar recoveries... which is roughly when Grey Wolf will say going long Spain it is the "no-brainer trade" of the year.

Details Emerge About Spain's Cramming Down "Bailout" Loan | ZeroHedge

 

[JimBowie1958]

Good ole Nigel...

Break up Euro and restore human dignity

UKIP Nigel Farage - Break up the euro and restore human dignity - 22nd May 2012 - YouTube

Should Greece Leave Euro?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge4zCRQPGHA]Collapsing Euro, UKIP Nigel Farage vs Labour Denis MacShane - BBC Daily Politics (18May12) - YouTube[/ame]

Euro Doomed from Start
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bX2ZSRUdtc&feature=related]Euro Was Doomed From Start, UKIP Nigel Farage- 3rd Dec 2011 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Trajan]

of course they should...and, it going to be a very rough ride....in any event, their ego will not allow them to just drop the Euro altogether, they have to much on a personal and national level ala my balls are bigger better than yours, tied up in it. It will have to crumble and be infinitely more painful.



and here we go, the sugar high is over and Houston, Reality had landed;

Updated June 11, 2012, 8:29 a.m. ET

Market Euphoria Starts to Wane


Relief over Spain's bond markets started to wane and stock markets came off highs as investors began to question the logistics of the €100 billion ($125 billion) bailout of Spanish banks and wondered whether Monday's gains in financial markets were nothing but a relief rally.

Stocks had risen sharply early in the European session, led by the Spanish market, while yields on the country's 10-year bond plunged as investors showed their relief that Spain has secured a bailout for its banks. But while stock markets remained higher as the day wore on, bond yields were also once again higher.

more at-

European Stocks Pare Gains - WSJ.com

 

[Toro]

It's bad news for the market that this sold right off the open.

 

[Trajan]

hey man, its bad news period. I am not in the day to day toro, I did what I had to during the last correction, only imho we are going to have an uber correction soon, do I stand fast? yes, I bought for the long haul.

as far as life overall and the larger impact, *shrugs* they are determined to die the death of the thousand cuts. There will be like last week sugar highs and folks on the insdie, perhaps like yourself can make a few bucks...but a/the bull market as we have come to know it is as dead as kelseys nuts.


Oh and heres why I dropped by really...Zero Hedge was on it....


Updated June 11, 2012, 10:35 a.m. ET

EU: Spain Banks Will Be Monitored

The European Commission on Monday said the so-called "troika" that includes the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund will monitor Spain's €100 billion ($125 billion) banking bailout, suggesting the deal agreed on over the weekend may be more stringent than signaled by Madrid.

Statements about the bailout by Spain and the European Union have left several open questions, including the exact amount of aid the country will need and how the funds will be disbursed. Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said Sunday the deal will only include conditions related to the banking sector, and made no reference to any external monitoring of the process—a possibility that Madrid was explicitly ruling out last week.

more at-

Review & Outlook: Europe's Latest Bailout - WSJ.com




folks all over the EU are going to wake up one day soon and recognize that are all in the same class not matter what side of the issue they have been on….and one side will have it just marginally better than the other, frankly I am not sure which one that will be….

Side 1; they are being robbed of their future standard of living by incremental slippage…they are being sold faux ‘safety security’ line for today while their PMs et al give away their labor in the form of security/ monies for side 2…

side 2; being the bailout patients that have while taking the money to live for a few more years, are surrendering their rights step by step.
Feudalism runs in Europe’s veins but, this is invisible to an extent, will not work and leave them all again, right back at square one, broke and miserable, but with fewer rights liberties etc…