The fallacy of black unwed births

[IM2]

I started this thread because I'm tired of the stereotypes of those like me based on that one statistic. If blacks born back mothers were 72 percent of all babies born, then we have a problem. Because unwed babies have nothing to do with the problems in the black community. And when you talk abut poverty, we had 55 percent poverty when our unwed marriage rate was acceptable to whites. Now we have a 25 percent rate. While that is a problem it's not because if unwed mothers.

People site illegitimacy and the lack of male role models as a possible explanation for the astronomically high black crime rate are doing you guys a favor, you do realize that....right?

Most black people don't say that. Which is all that really matters. And there is no astronomically high crime in the lack community. These are the kinds of false uses of statistics I'm talking about.

Your personal anecdotes about what black people do and say is completely irrelevant.

The statistics do not lie. They're not up for debate.

Unless you want people to start considering other, more immutable reasons to explain black crime rates than illegitimacy then you should start listening to reason.

My personal opinion, anecdotes and everything else about what black people do or say is more important to issues pertaining to the black community than anything you will ever say. The information you present lie. And I don't give a fuck what you consider. I know why black crime exists, your ass is guessing. Crime in the white community is more and the numbers show . I don't have to divide by 100,000 every time to make a make up a dumb fuck, racist claim. Get it boy? I'm not going to listen to you. Never, ,Ever. You have nothing to offer but ignorance. I will continue showing that what you say is a lie made up by a dumb white dude suffering from psychosis.

LOL denying basic math is a sure winner. The FBI crime stats show that Blacks commit much more crime then whites it is so bad that murders actually committed by blacks account for more then even whites and whites are 5 times as numerous. Look STUPID in order to be even whites need to commit 5 times as much as blacks because there are 5 times as many of them, that is basic irrefutable math not even your stupidity can change that.

The FBI crimes stats show nothing of the sort. But since you want to talk about having 5 times the population as an excuse for the failure of your race let's do this.

The per capita argument rests upon using math to make claims of crime rates based on population. Whites are real good at looking for excuses, but none really exist. Over what 30 year period were blacks responsible for 52 percent of the murders. Is murder the only crime? Whites committed over 60 percent of the violent crimes in 2015, why are we worrying about the 40 percent more? The excuse begins with whites being 5 times the population of blacks. As such we must multiply every black crime by 5. So if a black person robs a store that equals 5 robberies and if a white person robs the same store it equals one. I have never understood this “logic”.

Since whites have 5 times the population and we want to make that an issue let’s start multiplying by 5. Blacks have over 2 million businesses right now, let’s multiply that by 5 and then see what the outcome will be. Now there are 10 million black owned businesses and more jobs in the black community.. Let’s reduce our unemployment rate by 5 to 2.6 percent. Blacks live at a 24 percent rate of poverty lets reduce that times 5 to make it 4.5 percent. Funny how you guys can only multiply when it comes to crimes. Lets keep multiplying folks.

The black economy now grows to 6.5 trillion instead of the 1.3 trillion we have now, We all have 5 times the amount of money we can spend and have earned. What happens them? All kinds of community development that’s what. Now property values increase in the black community and because of that we have more money in our schools. So now let’s multiply the number of blacks who go to college by 5 there are now 8.5 million blacks in college. This increase in population and jobs lowers the unemployment rate so you have fewer blacks on government assistance because they have stable employment. Youth crime is reduced because you have facilities and jobs available for them in their immediate communities. So then what happens to crime then if we do this, it reduces itself by 5 from 26 percent to 5.2 percent. Why? because the factors that create crime are reduced, so then crime reduces itself

But you see the white community has all these things already and still commits 70 percent of all crime in America. You want to multiply things by 5 instead of looking at the fact you have a problem. But if you multiply things by 5 to make the populations the same the same things do not exist for blacks. We would have more economic opportunity. We would have equal representation relative to numbers of police, lawyers, judges and political representatives. White people specifically white conservative republicans, fail to understand this. But you keep arguing his ridiculous per capita multiply by 5 idiocy.

 

[IM2]

Yep. According to you, rates don't matter.

until they do.

Wrong. I used that as an example of how rates only matter to you to use as an excuse to deny white failure.

Let me get this straight...

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

More white people are shot by police than blacks, but it's the black rate that matters.

And whites are the hypocrites?

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

Actually, there are more murders committed by blacks.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Not the most murders or robberies.
But if you want to say whites commit the most crimes besides those then yes, you're right.

That means whites commit the most crimes.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wrong. I used that as an example of how rates only matter to you to use as an excuse to deny white failure.

Let me get this straight...

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

More white people are shot by police than blacks, but it's the black rate that matters.

And whites are the hypocrites?

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

Actually, there are more murders committed by blacks.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Not the most murders or robberies.
But if you want to say whites commit the most crimes besides those then yes, you're right.

That means whites commit the most crimes.

Yup.
And blacks commit the most murders and robberies.

 

[IM2]

Let me get this straight...

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

More white people are shot by police than blacks, but it's the black rate that matters.

And whites are the hypocrites?

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

Actually, there are more murders committed by blacks.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Not the most murders or robberies.
But if you want to say whites commit the most crimes besides those then yes, you're right.

That means whites commit the most crimes.

Yup.
And blacks commit the most murders and robberies.

But that's irrelevant when whites commit the most crimes.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

Actually, there are more murders committed by blacks.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Not the most murders or robberies.
But if you want to say whites commit the most crimes besides those then yes, you're right.

That means whites commit the most crimes.

Yup.
And blacks commit the most murders and robberies.

But that's irrelevant when whites commit the most crimes.

Murders and robberies are never irrelevant.

 

[flacaltenn]

So let me provide you an example. There are more whites who get shot by police. Yet by rate more blacks do. When we argue about that, rate is not considered. So it's apparent what's going on. You can participate in the white racism here or you can oppose it, there is no middle ground.

So when it's CONVENIENT for your arguments --- you DO know to use Rates by cohort.. Interesting. A little admission that YOU KNOW it's a devious practice then --- right?

If I was an insurance company looking for premium adjustment to offset my "dog bite" losses, would I do it by RATE of bites per breed? Probably. Most dog bites are not Pit Bulls, but Pit Bulls are the HIGHER RISK.. It's that kind of thing.

Using it ONLY when it's convenient for your argument is dishonest. If I was dishonest I'd take that black police shooting rate statistic and tell you it's "Black Math" and doesn't matter because it's mostly WHITES that are getting shot..

But it DOES matter. It ALWAYS does. THat's how you analyze and solve issues and problems. Can't problem solve or arrive at good conclusion without properly MEASURING what you set out to measure.

 

[bgrouse]

And blacks commit the most murders and robberies.

But that's irrelevant when whites commit the most crimes.

ROTFLMFAO!

 

[bgrouse]

So let me provide you an example. There are more whites who get shot by police. Yet by rate more blacks do. When we argue about that, rate is not considered. So it's apparent what's going on. You can participate in the white racism here or you can oppose it, there is no middle ground.

So when it's CONVENIENT for your arguments --- you DO know to use Rates by cohort.. Interesting. A little admission that YOU KNOW it's a devious practice then --- right?

If I was an insurance company looking for premium adjustment to offset my "dog bite" losses, would I do it by RATE of bites per breed? Probably. Most dog bites are not Pit Bulls, but Pit Bulls are the HIGHER RISK.. It's that kind of thing.

Using it ONLY when it's convenient for your argument is dishonest. If I was dishonest I'd take that black police shooting rate statistic and tell you it's "Black Math" and doesn't matter because it's mostly WHITES that are getting shot..

But it DOES matter. It ALWAYS does. THat's how you analyze and solve issues and problems. Can't problem solve or arrive at good conclusion without properly MEASURING what you set out to measure.

That's the problem: he doesn't want to solve any problems. He just wants to bitch and moan about how it's whitey's fault blacks are retarded.

 

[Markle]

But that's irrelevant when whites commit the most crimes.

BY WALTER E. WILLIAMS
RELEASE: WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 26, 2005, AND THEREAFTER

AMMUNITION FOR POVERTY PIMPS

In the wake of Hurricane Katrina's destruction of New Orleans, President Bush gave America's poverty pimps and race hustlers new ammunition. The president said, "As all of us saw on television, there is also some deep, persistent poverty in this region as well. And that poverty has roots in a history of racial discrimination, which cut off generations from the opportunity of America. We have a duty to confront this poverty with bold action."

The president's espousing such a vision not only supplies ammunition to poverty pimps and race hustlers, it focuses attention away from the true connection between race and poverty.

Though I grow weary of pointing it out, let's do it again. Let's examine some numbers readily available from the Census Bureau's 2004 Current Population Survey and ask some questions. There's one segment of the black population that suffers only a 9.9 percent poverty rate, and only 13.7 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. There's another segment that suffers a 39.5 percent poverty rate, and 58.1 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. Among whites, one segment suffers a 6 percent poverty rate, and only 9.9 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. The other segment suffers a 26.4 percent poverty rate, and 52 percent of its under-5-year-olds are poor. What do you think distinguishes the high and low poverty populations among blacks?

Would you buy an explanation that it's because white people practice discrimination against one segment of the black population and not the other or one segment had a history of slavery and not the other? You'd have to be a lunatic to buy such an explanation. The only distinction between both the black and white populations is marriage -- lower poverty in married-couple families.

In 1960, only 28 percent of black females ages 15 to 44 were never married and illegitimacy among blacks was 22 percent. Today, the never-married rate is 56 percent and illegitimacy stands at 70 percent. If today's black family structure were what it was in 1960, the overall black poverty rate would be in or near single digits. The weakening of the black family structure, and its devastating consequences, have nothing to do with the history of slavery or racial discrimination.

Dr. Charles Murray, an American Enterprise Institute scholar, argues in an article titled "Rediscovering the Underclass" in the Institute's On the Issues series (October 2005) that self-destructive behavior has become the hallmark of the underclass. He says that unemployment in the underclass is not caused by the lack of jobs but by the inability to get up every morning and go to work. In 1954, the percentage of black males, age 20 to 24, not looking for work was nine percent. In 1999, it rose to 30 percent, and that was at a time when employers were beating the bushes for employees. Murray adds that "the statistical reality is that people who get into the American job market and stay there seldom remain poor unless they do something self-destructive.

I share Murray's sentiment expressed at the beginning of his article where he says, "Watching the courage of ordinary low-income people as they deal with the aftermath of Katrina and Rita, it is hard to decide which politicians are more contemptible -- Democrats who are rediscovering poverty and blaming it on George W. Bush, or Republicans who are rediscovering poverty and claiming that the government can fix it." Since President Johnson's War on Poverty, controlling for inflation, the nation has spent $9 trillion on about 80 anti-poverty programs. To put that figure in perspective, last year's U.S. GDP was $11 trillion; $9 trillion exceeds the GDP of any nation except the U.S. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita uncovered the result of the War on Poverty -- dependency and self-destructive behavior.

Guess what the president [President George Walker Bush] and politicians from both parties are asking the American people to do? If you said, "Enact programs that will sustain and enhance dependency," go to the head of the class.

Ammunition For Poverty Pimps

 

[JQPublic1]

Yep. According to you, rates don't matter.

until they do.

Wrong. I used that as an example of how rates only matter to you to use as an excuse to deny white failure.

Let me get this straight...

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

More white people are shot by police than blacks, but it's the black rate that matters.

And whites are the hypocrites?

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

Actually, there are more murders committed by blacks.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Not the most murders or robberies.
But if you want to say whites commit the most crimes besides those then yes, you're right.

I don't equate ARRESTS with commission of crime. Thats what the FBI UCR is reporting...ARRESTS. Due to the nature of the system as I have painstakingly explained it, More Blacks are arrested for murder than actually commit murder. Cops are aware of the power of getting as many arrests as possible even if the Black guy is freed later. I'd call that called statistical padding. It's the arrests that go into the UCR not the convictions.

 

[IM2]

So let me provide you an example. There are more whites who get shot by police. Yet by rate more blacks do. When we argue about that, rate is not considered. So it's apparent what's going on. You can participate in the white racism here or you can oppose it, there is no middle ground.

So when it's CONVENIENT for your arguments --- you DO know to use Rates by cohort.. Interesting. A little admission that YOU KNOW it's a devious practice then --- right?

If I was an insurance company looking for premium adjustment to offset my "dog bite" losses, would I do it by RATE of bites per breed? Probably. Most dog bites are not Pit Bulls, but Pit Bulls are the HIGHER RISK.. It's that kind of thing.

Using it ONLY when it's convenient for your argument is dishonest. If I was dishonest I'd take that black police shooting rate statistic and tell you it's "Black Math" and doesn't matter because it's mostly WHITES that are getting shot..

But it DOES matter. It ALWAYS does. THat's how you analyze and solve issues and problems. Can't problem solve or arrive at good conclusion without properly MEASURING what you set out to measure.

Look idiot ware here talking about who commits the most crime. That is not a rate based argument. This argument is based upon totals. We aren't talking about insurance, we are taking about a claim of racial superiority based on TOTAL numbers of crimes.

 

[GWV5903]

So let me provide you an example. There are more whites who get shot by police. Yet by rate more blacks do. When we argue about that, rate is not considered. So it's apparent what's going on. You can participate in the white racism here or you can oppose it, there is no middle ground.

So when it's CONVENIENT for your arguments --- you DO know to use Rates by cohort.. Interesting. A little admission that YOU KNOW it's a devious practice then --- right?

If I was an insurance company looking for premium adjustment to offset my "dog bite" losses, would I do it by RATE of bites per breed? Probably. Most dog bites are not Pit Bulls, but Pit Bulls are the HIGHER RISK.. It's that kind of thing.

Using it ONLY when it's convenient for your argument is dishonest. If I was dishonest I'd take that black police shooting rate statistic and tell you it's "Black Math" and doesn't matter because it's mostly WHITES that are getting shot..

But it DOES matter. It ALWAYS does. THat's how you analyze and solve issues and problems. Can't problem solve or arrive at good conclusion without properly MEASURING what you set out to measure.

Look idiot ware here talking about who commits the most crime. That is not a rate based argument. This argument is based upon totals. We aren't talking about insurance, we are taking about a claim of racial superiority based on TOTAL numbers of crimes.

WOW, you’re not the sharpest stick in the box, I would suggest you get a different hobby, this message board is waaaaaayyyyyyover your head...

 

[Correll]

I understand why 500k babies is a far bigger number for the Black community, than 600k is for a community approximately FIVE times larger.


YOu don't.

Now you apparently don't. 593,000 were the total number of babies born in the black community. Whites had just more than 621,000 unwed births. Your claim of whites having 5 times the population is an excuse for every failure whites have.

415k is a bigger number, proportionally speaking than 600k.


Whites do have 5 times the population. That is not a "Claim", it is a fact.


I excuse nothing. The far smaller percentage of white illegitimate births are still a large problem for the White community and I want to address them even more than I do want to address the black ones.


Your lack of math is still funny.

That's all you are doing here. Making excuses for white failure. That's always going to be your out. We commit more crime because there are 5 times more of us. We had more unwed births because there are 5 times more of us. We commit more rapes because there at 5 times more of us. Like that justifies the high crime numbers of whites. It is an excuse and nothing else.

You misunderstand my intent.


It is never my intent to excuse white crime or illegitimacy. I merely point out the relevance of RATES, to show how high rates of illegitimacy (in the black community) tracks with high rates of violent crime, or drug use, or poor education outcome, ect ect ect, (in the black community)


To show that illegitimacy is the primary CAUSE of these social dysfunctions.


Thus we can see what we have to do to reduce the rates of these negative outcomes for everyone.


Though of course, blacks, suffering more, would disproportionately benefit.

Well the thing here is that illegitimacy is not the primary cause of any dysfunction in the black community. White racism is.

Which is utter nonsense, and very harmful self defeating nonsense at that.



It's easy to blame someone else for your problems. It feels good. Hell, play your cards right, and you can get paid.



But the problems only worsen, because you are not actually addressing the real cause.


DId you not notice that? You've spent generations trying to fix these problems by fighting against white racism, and your children are still killing each other by the thousands every year.



If you are serious about the welfare of your people, you need to stop playing games and get serious, and actually address the real cause.


It will be hard, but ever single point of drop in the rate of illegitimacy will translate into saved lives, and better lives.

 

[Vastator]

Everywhere. The only rate that counts is the total.

Total isn't a rate, moron.

Toddsterpatriot
It's clear to me IM2 means
the RATE that matters is BASED on the TOTAL.
No, that does not mean they are the same.
It means you use the TOTAL in order to calculate the RATE.
So that's why the TOTAL matters.
???
Isn't that clear?

It's clear to me IM2 means
the RATE that matters is BASED on the TOTAL.

But he doesn't.

It means you use the TOTAL in order to calculate the RATE.
So that's why the TOTAL matters.

No one has said the total doesn't matter.
He has said the rate doesn't matter.

​

Toddsterpatriot

He said "the only rate that counts is the total"
He is saying THAT's the *rate* that matters:

"Everywhere. The only rate that counts is the total."
[emphasis/underline added]

TP from your response, perhaps you read this as
the only "rate" that counts is the total.

But he meant rate LITERALLY.
You were being sarcastic but he was being literal.

.He was not being sarcastic Emily. I've heard his argument too many times by whites in my life.

He wants deny the total number of white crimes by making a claim about rate. But he will not deny the total as opposed to rate if we talk about blacks getting shot by police.

So... Which is more important now... Rate/Per Capita, or total...
FACT CHECK: Do Police Kill More White People Than Black People?

 

[flacaltenn]

So let me provide you an example. There are more whites who get shot by police. Yet by rate more blacks do. When we argue about that, rate is not considered. So it's apparent what's going on. You can participate in the white racism here or you can oppose it, there is no middle ground.

So when it's CONVENIENT for your arguments --- you DO know to use Rates by cohort.. Interesting. A little admission that YOU KNOW it's a devious practice then --- right?

If I was an insurance company looking for premium adjustment to offset my "dog bite" losses, would I do it by RATE of bites per breed? Probably. Most dog bites are not Pit Bulls, but Pit Bulls are the HIGHER RISK.. It's that kind of thing.

Using it ONLY when it's convenient for your argument is dishonest. If I was dishonest I'd take that black police shooting rate statistic and tell you it's "Black Math" and doesn't matter because it's mostly WHITES that are getting shot..

But it DOES matter. It ALWAYS does. THat's how you analyze and solve issues and problems. Can't problem solve or arrive at good conclusion without properly MEASURING what you set out to measure.

Look idiot ware here talking about who commits the most crime. That is not a rate based argument. This argument is based upon totals. We aren't talking about insurance, we are taking about a claim of racial superiority based on TOTAL numbers of crimes.

When there is a group who's numbers are more than 3 times LARGER than another, their "number of unwed births" says NOTHING comparative. It doesn't tell you anything about the different probability of unwed births within the 2 groups.

You stated the numbers based on OVERALL TOTALS and then made a claim the blacks don't have a "unwed birth" problem, but whites do.. All math and statistics do are to construct grammatically correct measurements. And whatever you set out to PROVE has to have the right equations. You didn't do that.

You either know better and we're treating your readers as stupid, or you're just parroting crap that has to be mind-eating propaganda.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wrong. I used that as an example of how rates only matter to you to use as an excuse to deny white failure.

Let me get this straight...

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

More white people are shot by police than blacks, but it's the black rate that matters.

And whites are the hypocrites?

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

Actually, there are more murders committed by blacks.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Not the most murders or robberies.
But if you want to say whites commit the most crimes besides those then yes, you're right.

I don't equate ARRESTS with commission of crime. Thats what the FBI UCR is reporting...ARRESTS. Due to the nature of the system as I have painstakingly explained it, More Blacks are arrested for murder than actually commit murder. Cops are aware of the power of getting as many arrests as possible even if the Black guy is freed later. I'd call that called statistical padding. It's the arrests that go into the UCR not the convictions.

I don't equate ARRESTS with commission of crime.

The data I've seen shows more murders and robberies, not just more arrests for murder and robberies.

 

[JQPublic1]

Let me get this straight...

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

More white people are shot by police than blacks, but it's the black rate that matters.

And whites are the hypocrites?

Black murder rates don't matter, because more white people commit murder.

Actually, there are more murders committed by blacks.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Not the most murders or robberies.
But if you want to say whites commit the most crimes besides those then yes, you're right.

I don't equate ARRESTS with commission of crime. Thats what the FBI UCR is reporting...ARRESTS. Due to the nature of the system as I have painstakingly explained it, More Blacks are arrested for murder than actually commit murder. Cops are aware of the power of getting as many arrests as possible even if the Black guy is freed later. I'd call that called statistical padding. It's the arrests that go into the UCR not the convictions.

I don't equate ARRESTS with commission of crime.

The data I've seen shows more murders and robberies, not just more arrests for murder and robberies.

View attachment 180764

You are equating ARRESTS with commission of crime withou realizing it. How do i know? Its because I pay attention to clues showing how the data is collected and compiled. Police agencies do the reporting not the courts. So, arrests are the only data falling within the purview of uniformed officers and detectives...not the subsequent convictions or even subsequent exonerations.. The arrest statistic becomes part of the permanent. UCR record
Regardless of the outcome.

One more thing. Logic should have told you that something is amiss when whites are arrested for 69.6 of crimes commited in 2016 but
they aren't represented in prison at anywhere near that rate.

 

[JQPublic1]

Total isn't a rate, moron.

Toddsterpatriot
It's clear to me IM2 means
the RATE that matters is BASED on the TOTAL.
No, that does not mean they are the same.
It means you use the TOTAL in order to calculate the RATE.
So that's why the TOTAL matters.
???
Isn't that clear?

It's clear to me IM2 means
the RATE that matters is BASED on the TOTAL.

But he doesn't.

It means you use the TOTAL in order to calculate the RATE.
So that's why the TOTAL matters.

No one has said the total doesn't matter.
He has said the rate doesn't matter.

​

Toddsterpatriot

He said "the only rate that counts is the total"
He is saying THAT's the *rate* that matters:

"Everywhere. The only rate that counts is the total."
[emphasis/underline added]

TP from your response, perhaps you read this as
the only "rate" that counts is the total.

But he meant rate LITERALLY.
You were being sarcastic but he was being literal.

.He was not being sarcastic Emily. I've heard his argument too many times by whites in my life.

He wants deny the total number of white crimes by making a claim about rate. But he will not deny the total as opposed to rate if we talk about blacks getting shot by police.

So... Which is more important now... Rate/Per Capita, or total...
FACT CHECK: Do Police Kill More White People Than Black People?

Hmmmm . um...I'd say .the raw total affects more victims than the fewer totals represented by proportional stats.

 

[JQPublic1]

Whites commit the most crimes.

Whites commit the most crimes.

Not the most murders or robberies.
But if you want to say whites commit the most crimes besides those then yes, you're right.

That means whites commit the most crimes.

Yup.
And blacks commit the most murders and robberies.

But that's irrelevant when whites commit the most crimes.

Murders and robberies are never irrelevant.

Welllll, whites are not the targets of murder by blacks anywhere near as much as they are targetted by other Whites. Off the top of my head i believe that 84% is the WOW (white on white) rate.

 

[JQPublic1]

I did prove the back unwed birth problem is not greater or less than any other racial group and I did so by comparing the number of back births to the number of total births and total unwed births.

That DOES NOT prove the premise. I'm not wasting time educating you as to the fundamental DISHONEST USE of statistics here. Just call it "white math" and go on your merry way.. But you're SEVERELY DAMAGING your cause everytime you USE deceptive math to make your case.

You want to prove one group is LESS or MORE prone to an effect??? You use the RATIO WITHIN THOSE GROUPS and compare the numbers. Comparing them to tthe TOTAL occurences for ALL GROUPS --- proves

absolutely, positively, fucking NOTHING about the RELATIVE frequency of occurrence within any of the groups....

The only reason the black illegitimacy rate is even brought up in the first place is to try and come up with non-racist explanations for why the black crime rate is so high. IM2 does no favors to his cause by denying fatherlessness as a potential cause.

But is fatherlessness as much a reality among blacks as you have beem led to believe? Are you ignoring the evidence presented here to rebut that dangerous assumption: that the absentee black father is a myth? Your problem is that your opinion is clouded by the notion that if blacks don't marry that means the fathers arent living with or supporting their offspring. Your worldview is flawed.