The Flint Water Crisis: An insight into Republicanism.

[Seawytch]

Reporter’s notebook: Some state officials still in denial or misinformed over Flint River decision

According to this article Detroit upped the price by 10 Million for 2 years to stay on their water.

On the other thread I showed where they charged Flint 12 MILLION just to hook back up to their water. Then 1.3 Million a year up front until getting water from the other source.

Probably a damn sight cheaper than what the decision to switch to untreated Flint River water is going to cost the city, the state and the Feds.

 

[Seawytch]

Why should the GOP federally respond to the crisis in Flint? I'm glad they are staying out of it.

D made the bloody disaster. EPA head had to resign.

Didn't the Obama's epa dump thousands of gallons of toxic sludge into a river? Where is your outrage? Oh it's a democratic disaster, nothing to see here. Right?

You know it's not the water that was the problem, right? The water did not contain the lead, you're aware of that, yes?

The water from the river contains more salt than the water they were getting from Detroit which means when they switched, they needed to have treated that water first. Lots of cities use river water which is more corrosive, but they treat it first so the water doesn't corrode the pipes, releasing the lead. Now, even if they switch to a better water source or treat the water first, it's too late, the pipes have been corroded and still leak lead.

OK so the problem was the water. Thanks for playing.

No, the problem was not properly treating the new water. Lots of cities get their water from rivers...they just properly treat it first.

Yes the problem was the water. Thanks for admitting it.

There is nothing to admit to. The lead is in the pipes, not the water.

What end do you think you're driving to? Still trying to deflect from the failure of the Governor and his appointees?

 

[eagle1462010]

Reporter’s notebook: Some state officials still in denial or misinformed over Flint River decision

According to this article Detroit upped the price by 10 Million for 2 years to stay on their water.

On the other thread I showed where they charged Flint 12 MILLION just to hook back up to their water. Then 1.3 Million a year up front until getting water from the other source.

Probably a damn sight cheaper than what the decision to switch to untreated Flint River water is going to cost the city, the state and the Feds.

The water wasn't UNTREATED..............It was improperly treated. They didn't start treating it with Corrosion Treatment until a little over a Year and a HALF after coming on line in direct violation of the CFR's for that very thing. The EPA knew about this about a year into the mess as did the Governor from links in the other thread.

Bottom Line you are ignoring that Detroit jacked up the price to get water because they were pissed that they were switching services. aka............Blackmailing them OVER MONEY they would lose in the deal.

Had the water been properly treated with the Corrosion Treatment with the FLINT RIVER............we wouldn't be talking about this today. But you keep on ignoring the other parties involved with this.

 

[eagle1462010]

Didn't the Obama's epa dump thousands of gallons of toxic sludge into a river? Where is your outrage? Oh it's a democratic disaster, nothing to see here. Right?

You know it's not the water that was the problem, right? The water did not contain the lead, you're aware of that, yes?

The water from the river contains more salt than the water they were getting from Detroit which means when they switched, they needed to have treated that water first. Lots of cities use river water which is more corrosive, but they treat it first so the water doesn't corrode the pipes, releasing the lead. Now, even if they switch to a better water source or treat the water first, it's too late, the pipes have been corroded and still leak lead.

OK so the problem was the water. Thanks for playing.

No, the problem was not properly treating the new water. Lots of cities get their water from rivers...they just properly treat it first.

Yes the problem was the water. Thanks for admitting it.

There is nothing to admit to. The lead is in the pipes, not the water.

What end do you think you're driving to? Still trying to deflect from the failure of the Governor and his appointees?

The lead pipe had been there for 77 years to a 100 years..........Missed that part of your argument didn't you?

 

[Seawytch]

You know it's not the water that was the problem, right? The water did not contain the lead, you're aware of that, yes?

The water from the river contains more salt than the water they were getting from Detroit which means when they switched, they needed to have treated that water first. Lots of cities use river water which is more corrosive, but they treat it first so the water doesn't corrode the pipes, releasing the lead. Now, even if they switch to a better water source or treat the water first, it's too late, the pipes have been corroded and still leak lead.

OK so the problem was the water. Thanks for playing.

No, the problem was not properly treating the new water. Lots of cities get their water from rivers...they just properly treat it first.

Yes the problem was the water. Thanks for admitting it.

There is nothing to admit to. The lead is in the pipes, not the water.

What end do you think you're driving to? Still trying to deflect from the failure of the Governor and his appointees?

The lead pipe had been there for 77 years to a 100 years..........Missed that part of your argument didn't you?

Yes, and? It's well known that if you switch to the source that has more SALT, that you treat the water first.

 

[eagle1462010]

OK so the problem was the water. Thanks for playing.

No, the problem was not properly treating the new water. Lots of cities get their water from rivers...they just properly treat it first.

Yes the problem was the water. Thanks for admitting it.

There is nothing to admit to. The lead is in the pipes, not the water.

What end do you think you're driving to? Still trying to deflect from the failure of the Governor and his appointees?

The lead pipe had been there for 77 years to a 100 years..........Missed that part of your argument didn't you?

Yes, and? It's well known that if you switch to the source that has more SALT, that you treat the water first.

Yes and they treated the water...................But they missed a step and didn't Treat for the Corrosion..................As documented by EPA in the other thread.

 

[JQPublic1]

You know this thread might hold a little water if the liberal response to very Democrats scandal or fuck up was not phony scandal or vast right wing consiparcy.

It makes it hard to believe anything they say....................

But as I dig deeper..........DEQ enviro quality reported problems with temporary use of the Flint River as a source. Including Chronic Health hazards, E-coli, and forced boil water notices. It is in the very emails he released. So I'm ready based on that to say the Gov. needs to be Hung along with the rest of the idiots......................

The MONEY TREE in a public meeting................from an Emergency Manager............on a reason NOT TO SHIFT BACK to the Detroit grid............................give me a break here..........

I don't like Liberal tactics............and I don't trust them because they have a history of making shit up..........but it isn't looking too good for the governor on this one......................

I don't play party politics once the facts start getting clear. and I don't like what I'm reading here.

Don't misunderstand me I'm not doubting the stuff about Flint river just pointing out Democrats stay as silent about there scandals as Republicans are on this.

That is what Politicians do all the time.............we are more of a show me proof before we are ready to frag someone sort..........they are more of pushing the politics no matter the situation or facts........like a bunch of zombies. This Jq poster seems to have his act together......but given the left's tactics in the past they are hard to believe anymore...............

I've been reading far more than I wanted to on this Flint Crisis trying to find out who's Bull shitting who...........Snyder's toast as are a lot more in this mess...............I'm still looking for the letter in the video...........but I'd also like to see the RATES for DETROIT as well........some of the emails are stating Detroits rates went up.......How much and what was Detroits rate offer for the 2 year period............That is some info I'd like to see.

Try this one.... HOT LINK!

Reporter’s notebook: Some state officials still in denial or misinformed over Flint River decision

That article proves my point on basically being Black Mailed by Detroit. They raised the rates by 10 Million for the 2 year period. Which is where some were saying that the move would save them 5 Million a year.

Had they put in the Corrosion Treatment measures, even with the Flint River.........the corrosion problem wouldn't have happened.

Final Blackmail from Detroit was the 12 Million they had to pay to Detroit JUST TO TIE BACK IN. The Tying back into their grid was more Political than an absolute Necessity..............As with the water softener additives they could Treat the Water from the Flint River to provide the water...........

But under the political shit storm, they decided to make the move for the coming lawsuits that is gonna HAMMER THEM.

For the sake of clarification, the article does validate that Detroit raised their rates after learning that Flint was going to a new cheaper KWA system. However the article also specifically absolves the city council of blame in making a decision to tap into to the Flint river as a quick temporary reprieve. State officials just flat out lied or were grossly misinformed about what really happened. The city council never voted to use Flint River water...that was done solely at the discretion of the governor's representative.

From the article:

Nowhere in that vote or other votes did Flint City Council say, "We support getting water from the Flint River." Yes, there was one councilman who did openly support that. But as a board, that vote never happened. Flint leaders never made that call (not that they had the authority to make such a call at that time anyway.)
Some state officials continue to confuse Flint’s vote to join the Karegnondi Water Authority with the state appointed emergency manager’s decision to temporarily switch to the Flint River.
Also, for further clarification nothing is mentioned in the artice about a 12 million fee to tie back in. You must have gotten that information from another source.

 

[leftwinger]

What end do you think you're driving to? Still trying to deflect from the failure of the Governor and his appointees?

Flint has a Mayor and 8 city council members (at last check). You think first responder is Governor? What are all the others for? If the water so bad what about at the homes of all the city workers? They all rich and live in Auburn Hills? They get different water? Different pipes? You folks is crazy.

 

[eagle1462010]

It makes it hard to believe anything they say....................

But as I dig deeper..........DEQ enviro quality reported problems with temporary use of the Flint River as a source. Including Chronic Health hazards, E-coli, and forced boil water notices. It is in the very emails he released. So I'm ready based on that to say the Gov. needs to be Hung along with the rest of the idiots......................

The MONEY TREE in a public meeting................from an Emergency Manager............on a reason NOT TO SHIFT BACK to the Detroit grid............................give me a break here..........

I don't like Liberal tactics............and I don't trust them because they have a history of making shit up..........but it isn't looking too good for the governor on this one......................

I don't play party politics once the facts start getting clear. and I don't like what I'm reading here.

Don't misunderstand me I'm not doubting the stuff about Flint river just pointing out Democrats stay as silent about there scandals as Republicans are on this.

That is what Politicians do all the time.............we are more of a show me proof before we are ready to frag someone sort..........they are more of pushing the politics no matter the situation or facts........like a bunch of zombies. This Jq poster seems to have his act together......but given the left's tactics in the past they are hard to believe anymore...............

I've been reading far more than I wanted to on this Flint Crisis trying to find out who's Bull shitting who...........Snyder's toast as are a lot more in this mess...............I'm still looking for the letter in the video...........but I'd also like to see the RATES for DETROIT as well........some of the emails are stating Detroits rates went up.......How much and what was Detroits rate offer for the 2 year period............That is some info I'd like to see.

Try this one.... HOT LINK!

Reporter’s notebook: Some state officials still in denial or misinformed over Flint River decision

That article proves my point on basically being Black Mailed by Detroit. They raised the rates by 10 Million for the 2 year period. Which is where some were saying that the move would save them 5 Million a year.

Had they put in the Corrosion Treatment measures, even with the Flint River.........the corrosion problem wouldn't have happened.

Final Blackmail from Detroit was the 12 Million they had to pay to Detroit JUST TO TIE BACK IN. The Tying back into their grid was more Political than an absolute Necessity..............As with the water softener additives they could Treat the Water from the Flint River to provide the water...........

But under the political shit storm, they decided to make the move for the coming lawsuits that is gonna HAMMER THEM.

For the sake of clarification, the article does validate that Detroit raised their rates after learning that Flint was going to a new cheaper KWA system. However the article also specifically absolves the city council of blame in making a decision to tap into to the Flint river as a quick temporary reprieve. State officials just flat out lied or were grossly misinformed about what really happened. The city council never voted to use Flint River water...that was done solely at the discretion of the governor's representative.

From the article:

Nowhere in that vote or other votes did Flint City Council say, "We support getting water from the Flint River." Yes, there was one councilman who did openly support that. But as a board, that vote never happened. Flint leaders never made that call (not that they had the authority to make such a call at that time anyway.)
Some state officials continue to confuse Flint’s vote to join the Karegnondi Water Authority with the state appointed emergency manager’s decision to temporarily switch to the Flint River.
Also, for further clarification nothing is mentioned in the artice about a 12 million fee to tie back in. You must have gotten that information from another source.

It validates my assertion that Detroit extorted Flint OVER MONEY..............which I'd said a long time ago on many threads...........As there are TONS of these threads here now.............

My position on improper Treatment of the water is also in the documents provided, which I said on many threads also.....Proved by the emails and EPA data that they failed to add the treatment for corrosion. Had they done so this wouldn't have happened.

 

[leftwinger]

But they missed a step and didn't Treat for the Corrosion

this is where I get lost.......this went on for two years. Why did they not go test at the sites with complaints? Where is the "local" govt? don't they care about the citizens that elected them? If the tests show bad............you work fast to get it fixed? If "local" needs to go to Governor then do it?

 

[Seawytch]

What end do you think you're driving to? Still trying to deflect from the failure of the Governor and his appointees?

Flint has a Mayor and 8 city council members (at last check). You think first responder is Governor? What are all the others for? If the water so bad what about at the homes of all the city workers? They all rich and live in Auburn Hills? They get different water? Different pipes? You folks is crazy.

You know, this story has been in the news long enough for you to be more informed. Flint was under the control of the Governor appointed Emergency Manager when the decision to switch the water was made. The Mayor and City Council had no power in Flint.

 

[leftwinger]

Flint is no different from probably 1000 other mid-size cities with 100 year old pipes to old homes? Did this "improperly" treated water make the entire system un-usable from source to home? huh?

Treat the water "correctly" and be done with it? Get the recipe from Akron Ohio or whatever? what is the issue here? Not make much sense. Why is the Mayor not on top of these issues with FACTS?

 

[leftwinger]

The Mayor and City Council had no power in Flint.

Oh really. Laughing. what are they paid to do? 9 people "on the ground" get a pass, and paycheck and cars and benefits and Golden chute but do NOTHING to help out the citizens? where is uproar?

 

[eagle1462010]

But they missed a step and didn't Treat for the Corrosion

this is where I get lost.......this went on for two years. Why did they not go test at the sites with complaints? Where is the "local" govt? don't they care about the citizens that elected them? If the tests show bad............you work fast to get it fixed? If "local" needs to go to Governor then do it?

They did test the sites and saw rapidly increasing lead levels. They were then ordered to implement Corrosion treatments and Lining the pipe techniques by the EPA...........Were told they were in violation of the CFR's of treating water...........Yet they drug their feet for at least 6 months before adding more additives.......They had started adding filters but the damage to the pipes was extensive.

Why they didn't immediately react at that point is beyond me.........They new they screwed up......knew they were gonna get hammered and still are gonna by the Law Suits...........but still didn't react properly.

Now they are putting in Phosphates to try and LINE THE PIPES to stop the bleeding, and are using Detroit Water again at higher rates than before they started the whole process.

I don't get why they waited so long to which allowed further damage.

 

[Stephanie]

Obama, Hillary, Sanders, Micky Moore stirring the pot because they know there isn't a gawddam thing they can do about it. it's a STATE MATTER. go poke your noses into something else losers

SNIP:
If Bernie Sanders & Michael Moore want to take Flint’s water problem to the top, here’s where they should start

By Doug Powers • January 17, 2016 10:50 PM
**Written by Doug Powers

At Sunday night’s Dem debate, Hillary Clinton expressed “outrage” about Flint, Michigan’s water for which President Obama has declared an emergency. Additionally, Bernie Sanders called on Michigan’s Republican Governor Rick Snyder to resign, and Michael Moore wants the governor arrested (apparently local officials in Dem-controlled cities are completely immune to criticism problems in their own districts).

But hey, if we’re gonna do this, let’s do it right and follow the accountability trail all the way to the top!

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s top Midwest official said her department knew as early as April about the lack of corrosion controls in Flint’s water supply — a situation that likely put residents at risk for lead contamination — but said her hands were tied in bringing the information to the public.

Starting with inquiries made in February, the federal agency battled Michigan’s Department of Environmental Quality behind the scenes for at least six months over whether Flint needed to use chemical treatments to keep lead lines and plumbing connections from leaching into drinking water. The EPA did not publicize its concern that Flint residents’ health was jeopardized by the state’s insistence that such controls were not required by law.

Instead of moving quickly to verify the concerns or take preventative measures, federal officials opted to prod the DEQ to act, EPA Region 5 Administrator Susan Hedman told The Detroit News this week. Hedman said she sought a legal opinion on whether the EPA could force action, but it wasn’t completed until November.

In fairness to the EPA, at the time they might have been preoccupied with telling the people along the Animas River that the water was going to be just fine.

We’ll now await Sanders, Moore, et al to call for the resignation and/or arrest of the head of the EPA (or higher-ups) — after which progs will demand that an even bigger government be created to solve the problems blamed on big government. If only irony was safe to drink.

all of it here:
If Bernie Sanders & Michael Moore want to take Flint's water problem to the top, here's where they should start

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Snyder was under orders straight from the RNC to wipe out ALL the Democrat cities, not just Flint

 

[JQPublic1]

Don't misunderstand me I'm not doubting the stuff about Flint river just pointing out Democrats stay as silent about there scandals as Republicans are on this.

That is what Politicians do all the time.............we are more of a show me proof before we are ready to frag someone sort..........they are more of pushing the politics no matter the situation or facts........like a bunch of zombies. This Jq poster seems to have his act together......but given the left's tactics in the past they are hard to believe anymore...............

I've been reading far more than I wanted to on this Flint Crisis trying to find out who's Bull shitting who...........Snyder's toast as are a lot more in this mess...............I'm still looking for the letter in the video...........but I'd also like to see the RATES for DETROIT as well........some of the emails are stating Detroits rates went up.......How much and what was Detroits rate offer for the 2 year period............That is some info I'd like to see.

Try this one.... HOT LINK!

Reporter’s notebook: Some state officials still in denial or misinformed over Flint River decision

That article proves my point on basically being Black Mailed by Detroit. They raised the rates by 10 Million for the 2 year period. Which is where some were saying that the move would save them 5 Million a year.

Had they put in the Corrosion Treatment measures, even with the Flint River.........the corrosion problem wouldn't have happened.

Final Blackmail from Detroit was the 12 Million they had to pay to Detroit JUST TO TIE BACK IN. The Tying back into their grid was more Political than an absolute Necessity..............As with the water softener additives they could Treat the Water from the Flint River to provide the water...........

But under the political shit storm, they decided to make the move for the coming lawsuits that is gonna HAMMER THEM.

For the sake of clarification, the article does validate that Detroit raised their rates after learning that Flint was going to a new cheaper KWA system. However the article also specifically absolves the city council of blame in making a decision to tap into to the Flint river as a quick temporary reprieve. State officials just flat out lied or were grossly misinformed about what really happened. The city council never voted to use Flint River water...that was done solely at the discretion of the governor's representative.

From the article:

Nowhere in that vote or other votes did Flint City Council say, "We support getting water from the Flint River." Yes, there was one councilman who did openly support that. But as a board, that vote never happened. Flint leaders never made that call (not that they had the authority to make such a call at that time anyway.)
Some state officials continue to confuse Flint’s vote to join the Karegnondi Water Authority with the state appointed emergency manager’s decision to temporarily switch to the Flint River.
Also, for further clarification nothing is mentioned in the artice about a 12 million fee to tie back in. You must have gotten that information from another source.

It validates my assertion that Detroit extorted Flint OVER MONEY..............which I'd said a long time ago on many threads...........As there are TONS of these threads here now.............

My position on improper Treatment of the water is also in the documents provided, which I said on many threads also.....Proved by the emails and EPA data that they failed to add the treatment for corrosion. Had they done so this wouldn't have happened.

But you are still not clear in THIS thread on WHO failed to treat the Flint River water. Your ambiguous statement makes it seem that you are still clinging to some notion that the city council or mayor is responsible. "THEY", is too broad a term. We have moved beyond such unclear designations. Are you talking about the engineers contracted by the EM?
Just who do you mean by "THEY?" The city council and mayor have already been exonerated so please elaborate.

 

[eagle1462010]

Flint is no different from probably 1000 other mid-size cities with 100 year old pipes to old homes? Did this "improperly" treated water make the entire system un-usable from source to home? huh?

Treat the water "correctly" and be done with it? Get the recipe from Akron Ohio or whatever? what is the issue here? Not make much sense. Why is the Mayor not on top of these issues with FACTS?

They screwed up Royally at the Treatment Plant and didn't add the proper Chemicals. And to add to their Stupidity they let it go on for a year and a half with MASSIVE public complaints about the water from the Customers. All of the complaints screamed Corrosion in the pipes via articles I posted in the other thread.

 

[Seawytch]

The Mayor and City Council had no power in Flint.

Oh really. Laughing. what are they paid to do? 9 people "on the ground" get a pass, and paycheck and cars and benefits and Golden chute but do NOTHING to help out the citizens? where is uproar?

That is correct, and there WAS uproar.

 

[eagle1462010]

That is what Politicians do all the time.............we are more of a show me proof before we are ready to frag someone sort..........they are more of pushing the politics no matter the situation or facts........like a bunch of zombies. This Jq poster seems to have his act together......but given the left's tactics in the past they are hard to believe anymore...............

I've been reading far more than I wanted to on this Flint Crisis trying to find out who's Bull shitting who...........Snyder's toast as are a lot more in this mess...............I'm still looking for the letter in the video...........but I'd also like to see the RATES for DETROIT as well........some of the emails are stating Detroits rates went up.......How much and what was Detroits rate offer for the 2 year period............That is some info I'd like to see.

Try this one.... HOT LINK!

Reporter’s notebook: Some state officials still in denial or misinformed over Flint River decision

That article proves my point on basically being Black Mailed by Detroit. They raised the rates by 10 Million for the 2 year period. Which is where some were saying that the move would save them 5 Million a year.

Had they put in the Corrosion Treatment measures, even with the Flint River.........the corrosion problem wouldn't have happened.

Final Blackmail from Detroit was the 12 Million they had to pay to Detroit JUST TO TIE BACK IN. The Tying back into their grid was more Political than an absolute Necessity..............As with the water softener additives they could Treat the Water from the Flint River to provide the water...........

But under the political shit storm, they decided to make the move for the coming lawsuits that is gonna HAMMER THEM.

For the sake of clarification, the article does validate that Detroit raised their rates after learning that Flint was going to a new cheaper KWA system. However the article also specifically absolves the city council of blame in making a decision to tap into to the Flint river as a quick temporary reprieve. State officials just flat out lied or were grossly misinformed about what really happened. The city council never voted to use Flint River water...that was done solely at the discretion of the governor's representative.

From the article:

Nowhere in that vote or other votes did Flint City Council say, "We support getting water from the Flint River." Yes, there was one councilman who did openly support that. But as a board, that vote never happened. Flint leaders never made that call (not that they had the authority to make such a call at that time anyway.)
Some state officials continue to confuse Flint’s vote to join the Karegnondi Water Authority with the state appointed emergency manager’s decision to temporarily switch to the Flint River.
Also, for further clarification nothing is mentioned in the artice about a 12 million fee to tie back in. You must have gotten that information from another source.

It validates my assertion that Detroit extorted Flint OVER MONEY..............which I'd said a long time ago on many threads...........As there are TONS of these threads here now.............

My position on improper Treatment of the water is also in the documents provided, which I said on many threads also.....Proved by the emails and EPA data that they failed to add the treatment for corrosion. Had they done so this wouldn't have happened.

But you are still not clear in THIS thread on WHO failed to treat the Flint River water. Your ambiguous statement makes it seem that you are still clinging to some notion that the city council or mayor is responsible. "THEY", is too broad a term. We have moved beyond such unclear designations. Are you talking about the engineers contracted by the EM?
Just who do you mean by "THEY?" The city council and mayor have already been exonerated so please elaborate.

Everyone in the food chain is an accessory to the crime..........From top to bottom. You are trying to excuse the fault's of those treating the water, the Engineers, and the city as well.................

I don't agree.

I condemn all involved not just one.