The free market at work in Houston

[Dim Bulb]

while I wholeheartedly support the free market to allocate resources, this might be an exception. From an economic standpoint the laws against price gouging are essentially the government stepping in to reallocate an advantage the wealthy have in times like this.

But even a free marketer like me doesn't mind government interference in this case. Who would?

$99 for a case of water: Texas officials report price gouging post-Harvey

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

while I wholeheartedly support the free market to allocate resources, this might be an exception. From an economic standpoint the laws against price gouging are essentially the government stepping in to reallocate an advantage the wealthy have in times like this.

But even a free marketer like me doesn't mind government interference in this case. Who would?

$99 for a case of water: Texas officials report price gouging post-Harvey

I agree. I heard the AG of TX talking about this.. apparently the fines are pretty steep, like $20k per instance and $250k if the victim is 65+

 

[Dim Bulb]

while I wholeheartedly support the free market to allocate resources, this might be an exception. From an economic standpoint the laws against price gouging are essentially the government stepping in to reallocate an advantage the wealthy have in times like this.

But even a free marketer like me doesn't mind government interference in this case. Who would?

$99 for a case of water: Texas officials report price gouging post-Harvey

I agree. I heard the AG of TX talking about this.. apparently the fines are pretty steep, like $20k per instance and $250k if the victim is 65+

Wow. Big fines. If I was a purist I'd be against it. In some circles even supporting this interference makes me a commie socialist Bernie supporter.

 

[Moonglow]

It's the law of supply and demand and by God this is a capitalist nation..

 

[Slade3200]

It's the law of supply and demand and by God this is a capitalist nation..

It's a capitalist nation with laws that protect consumers and programs funded by tax payers designed to help make our society better as a whole. All this was put in place over the course of years, elections, and laws written by our leaders under the constraints of our constitution. I'd try and come to grips with that if I were you.

 

[Dim Bulb]

It's the law of supply and demand and by God this is a capitalist nation..

It's a capitalist nation with laws that protect consumers and programs funded by tax payers designed to help make our society better as a whole. All this was put in place over the course of years, elections, and laws written by our leaders under the constraints of our constitution. I'd try and come to grips with that if I were you.

Institutional economists would tell you that laws are simply devices to correct for market failure. In other words, interference with the free market.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Laws of supply and demand work......even if politicians are too dumb to realize it.

 

[pillars]

Laws of supply and demand work......even if politicians are too dumb to realize it.

Of course they work...for the 1%.

 

[MisterBeale]

while I wholeheartedly support the free market to allocate resources, this might be an exception. From an economic standpoint the laws against price gouging are essentially the government stepping in to reallocate an advantage the wealthy have in times like this.

But even a free marketer like me doesn't mind government interference in this case. Who would?

$99 for a case of water: Texas officials report price gouging post-Harvey

. . . and those government workers have nothing better to do than to look into. . .

price gouging? During a natural disaster after math?

hmmm. . . . seems to me if the free market is "over charging" for water, rather than looking into matters of price gouging, maybe those government workers could look into finding ways to increase supply?

Nah. . . . Fining those evil doers would be better for the government's coffers, eh, wot wot?


Who is looking into price gouging the tax payers?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey, price gouging is gonna happen ANY time that people think they can get away with it.

Went up to Alliance NE to watch the eclipse, and stopped off in a town that was about 100 miles away. Not only were there zero hotel rooms in the entire town, ,but the guy at the one I stopped at told me that even if I had showed up and there was a cancellation, the room would still run me 450 for one night. In Alliance , the motels were running 1,000 per night the night before the eclipse, and in Cheyanne they were getting up to 3,000 for the night before the eclipse.

The next day, I saw people paying farmers 20 to 50 dollars for about 3 hours worth of parking in a field with no facilities.

Nope, people will price gouge whenever they think they can get away with it.

 

[Boss]

All who are familiar with me here know that I am a staunch free market capitalist and I will go to bat for free market capitalism at the drop of a hat. There is no better economic system for the benefit of mankind. However, there is a distinction that needs to be pointed out. Often, when debating and discussing, we tend to abbreviate. We say "capitalism" when we mean "Free Market Capitalism" or we say "Free Market" when we mean "Free Market System." This is a good example of where the system is important.

The Free Market Capitalist System is a blend of several elements. It's free market capitalism, free enterprise, private property rights and constitutionally-protected freedoms enforced by government. Together, these four elements comprise the system.

Price gouging is intentionally exploiting a disaster or condition in order to profit. That isn't honest free market capitalism. This is where constitutionally-protected freedoms enforced by government should (and do) prevail. Citizens should be protected from dishonest exploitation. This isn't a degradation of free market capitalism, it's actually a protection of it.

 

[pillars]

Hey, price gouging is gonna happen ANY time that people think they can get away with it.

Went up to Alliance NE to watch the eclipse, and stopped off in a town that was about 100 miles away. Not only were there zero hotel rooms in the entire town, ,but the guy at the one I stopped at told me that even if I had showed up and there was a cancellation, the room would still run me 450 for one night. In Alliance , the motels were running 1,000 per night the night before the eclipse, and in Cheyanne they were getting up to 3,000 for the night before the eclipse.

The next day, I saw people paying farmers 20 to 50 dollars for about 3 hours worth of parking in a field with no facilities.

Nope, people will price gouge whenever they think they can get away with it.

Price gouging stupid tourists is a-okay.

Price gouging people who've been through hell and are in a disaster area for needed essentials like clean drinking water is as abhorrent an act as you could possibly engage in.

 

[J.E.D]

while I wholeheartedly support the free market to allocate resources, this might be an exception. From an economic standpoint the laws against price gouging are essentially the government stepping in to reallocate an advantage the wealthy have in times like this.

But even a free marketer like me doesn't mind government interference in this case. Who would?

$99 for a case of water: Texas officials report price gouging post-Harvey

. . . and those government workers have nothing better to do than to look into. . .

price gouging? During a natural disaster after math?

hmmm. . . . seems to me if the free market is "over charging" for water, rather than looking into matters of price gouging, maybe those government workers could look into finding ways to increase supply?

Nah. . . . Fining those evil doers would be better for the government's coffers, eh, wot wot?


Who is looking into price gouging the tax payers?

You poor victim you

 

[Boss]

Price gouging stupid tourists is a-okay.

Price gouging people who've been through hell and are in a disaster area for needed essentials like clean drinking water is as abhorrent an act as you could possibly engage in.

There is a subtle nuance here. In my previous post, I stated:
"Price gouging is intentionally exploiting a disaster or condition in order to profit."

I realize that some will inevitably argue, well, isn't ALL free market capitalism an exploitation of sorts? And the answer is, no. True free market capitalism is a voluntary transaction between willing parties. Prices are determined by supply and demand. In the case of the hotel rooms during the eclipse, hotel rooms are in limited supply and the demand is very high. It's not exploitation to price the rooms in accordance with supply and demand because transaction remains voluntary.

So why wouldn't this apply to bottled water in a disaster? There is a high demand and limited supply. Transaction is voluntary. The difference is, the demand is high due to no fault of the consumer and the supply is limited because of the nature of the disaster itself. It is a temporary condition because of a disaster. With the rooms/eclipse scenario, the demand is high because of the consumer demand for rooms. The supply is not limited because there is an eclipse but because consumer demand is very high.

 

[Dim Bulb]

All who are familiar with me here know that I am a staunch free market capitalist and I will go to bat for free market capitalism at the drop of a hat. There is no better economic system for the benefit of mankind. However, there is a distinction that needs to be pointed out. Often, when debating and discussing, we tend to abbreviate. We say "capitalism" when we mean "Free Market Capitalism" or we say "Free Market" when we mean "Free Market System." This is a good example of where the system is important.

The Free Market Capitalist System is a blend of several elements. It's free market capitalism, free enterprise, private property rights and constitutionally-protected freedoms enforced by government. Together, these four elements comprise the system.

Price gouging is intentionally exploiting a disaster or condition in order to profit. That isn't honest free market capitalism. This is where constitutionally-protected freedoms enforced by government should (and do) prevail. Citizens should be protected from dishonest exploitation. This isn't a degradation of free market capitalism, it's actually a protection of it.

"Honest free market capitalism " is honest as long as it doesn't impose on constitutional rights. That sounds like your theory. So what constitutional right is being impacted by charging 99 bucks for drinking water?

 

[Boss]

"Honest free market capitalism " is honest as long as it doesn't impose on constitutional rights. That sounds like your theory. So what constitutional right is being impacted by charging 99 bucks for drinking water?

Money is property, so theft of property would be my first answer. They are exploiting a condition that is not the fault of the consumer. With the disaster, bottled water becomes a vital necessity, not a natural consumer demand. So this becomes an exploitation of a disaster to profit, and that's not honest free market capitalism.

 

[hazlnut]

It's the law of supply and demand and by God this is a capitalist nation..

That bails out big banks, insurance, airline, and auto companies when they fail…

 

[Dim Bulb]

"Honest free market capitalism " is honest as long as it doesn't impose on constitutional rights. That sounds like your theory. So what constitutional right is being impacted by charging 99 bucks for drinking water?

Money is property, so theft of property would be my first answer. They are exploiting a condition that is not the fault of the consumer. With the disaster, bottled water becomes a vital necessity, not a natural consumer demand. So this becomes an exploitation of a disaster to profit, and that's not honest free market capitalism.

Good theory. But constitutional lawyers will tell you that there is no right to money. Property laws are essentially state laws. You do have a constitutional right to not be deprived of your property without due process but that is only in the case of government action. I'm afraid there is no constitutional right to not be price gouged. Which means that your theoretical balance between free market and constitutional rights doesn't really apply.

Which means that we are basically saying that "it ain't right" for people through no fault of their own to be price gouged just because they were victims of a natural disaster. And trying to come up with some theoretical basis why we aren't compromising our free market beliefs. Our sense of justice is crying out, no? Well, "bad facts make bad law." And that's what we have here.

We are supporting free market interference because it "feels" like the right result.

 

[Boss]

But constitutional lawyers will tell you that there is no right to money.

I'm sorry, that's simply not true. Money IS property. You have an inalienable right to your property in this country.

I'm afraid there is no constitutional right to not be price gouged. Which means that your theoretical balance between free market and constitutional rights doesn't really apply.

Well it depends on what you consider "price gouging." I explained two different scenarios above. One involving hotel rooms during the eclipse and the other regarding bottled water during the hurricane. One is price gouging, the other is not. I explained the nuance between the two and you want to call it "theory" instead of trying to understand what I said.

We are supporting free market interference because it "feels" like the right result.

My argument has nothing to do with feelings. Interfering with exploitation is not interfering with free markets. It's actually protecting honest free markets. Free market depends on honest and fair voluntary transaction between parties. If it's dishonest, unfair and involuntary, it cannot be free market. This works both for the supplier and consumer.

 

[BluesLegend]

This make come as a shock to some but there is no shortage of douchebags and lowlife filthy scum living in this country.