The "free market" is a Big Government Program

[Andylusion]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Of course not. This is the odd aspect of the entire discussion. Sub-prime loans only destroyed the banks. It had no affect on the general public.

Mortgages are contracts. Doesn't matter what the bank does, you owe what you owe, when you owe it, with the interest you owe.... all on contract.

If the bank that owns your mortgage fails... another bank buys it, and life goes on. If that bank fails, another bill buy it. This can happen a hundred times, and have no effect whatsoever on the mortgage.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

What does any of that have to do with... "What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?"

 

[Indeependent]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

What does any of that have to do with... "What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?"

Oh! I didn't see the whole sentence.
It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.
A lot of gyms went under.
Most people paid their mortgages rather than pay other bills or participate in discretionary activities.

Lots of retires had to keep using their stock gains to support their 40 years old whose jobs and careers vanished.
In other words, crappy mortgages did not just happen in a vacuum.
People with no income lived off their parents who loved off-shoring and business visas and stopped discretionary spending.

So yeah, the inertia of crappy mortgages was GW & Congress allowing millions of Americans to lose their jobs.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

 

[georgephillip]

Maybe you can explain how Wall Street FIRE sector speculators earn their gains in a fundamental, metaphysical sense?

Provide a useful service, get compensated.
I see why that's confusing to you.

I see why you believe Goldman Sachs provide a useful service

[Letter from Washington] The Malaysian Job, by Andrew Cockburn | Harper's Magazine

"The Malaysian Job

"Everyone in the room had recognized the allusion. “Malaysia” was shorthand for a gigantic fraud—possibly the largest in financial history—in which, beginning in 2009, billions of dollars were diverted from a Malaysian sovereign-wealth fund called 1Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) into covert campaign-finance accounts, U.S. political campaigns, Hollywood movies, and the pockets of innumerable other recipients."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

What does any of that have to do with... "What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?"

Oh! I didn't see the whole sentence.
It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.
A lot of gyms went under.
Most people paid their mortgages rather than pay other bills or participate in discretionary activities.

Lots of retires had to keep using their stock gains to support their 40 years old whose jobs and careers vanished.
In other words, crappy mortgages did not just happen in a vacuum.
People with no income lived off their parents who loved off-shoring and business visas and stopped discretionary spending.

So yeah, the inertia of crappy mortgages was GW & Congress allowing millions of Americans to lose their jobs.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.

Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Maybe you can explain how Wall Street FIRE sector speculators earn their gains in a fundamental, metaphysical sense?

Provide a useful service, get compensated.
I see why that's confusing to you.

I see why you believe Goldman Sachs provide a useful service

[Letter from Washington] The Malaysian Job, by Andrew Cockburn | Harper's Magazine

"The Malaysian Job

"Everyone in the room had recognized the allusion. “Malaysia” was shorthand for a gigantic fraud—possibly the largest in financial history—in which, beginning in 2009, billions of dollars were diverted from a Malaysian sovereign-wealth fund called 1Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) into covert campaign-finance accounts, U.S. political campaigns, Hollywood movies, and the pockets of innumerable other recipients."

I see why you believe Goldman Sachs provide a useful service

Only because they do. Unlike you.

Everyone in the room had recognized the allusion. “Malaysia” was shorthand for a gigantic fraud—possibly the largest in financial history

Yes, dealing with corrupt government officials in Malaysia didn't turn out well.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

What does any of that have to do with... "What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?"

Oh! I didn't see the whole sentence.
It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.
A lot of gyms went under.
Most people paid their mortgages rather than pay other bills or participate in discretionary activities.

Lots of retires had to keep using their stock gains to support their 40 years old whose jobs and careers vanished.
In other words, crappy mortgages did not just happen in a vacuum.
People with no income lived off their parents who loved off-shoring and business visas and stopped discretionary spending.

So yeah, the inertia of crappy mortgages was GW & Congress allowing millions of Americans to lose their jobs.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.

Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.

"
Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.
Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.
They listened to Rush, even while seeing unemployed patients, and they loved the decimation of the Professional and Blue Collar work force because they knew only too well that brought stock prices up.
They didn't even care for a while that their own children weren't getting jobs after graduation because Americans need not apply.
It was when their kids wanted to move out or get married that they started realizing that they and their fellow Free Market Conservatives were forcing them to support their kids forever.
So they took out huge Home Equity Loans themselves and invested and were quite happy until the market crashed.
Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.
I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

I don't do R good, D bad or vice versa...Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.
Well, the Rs I know never had to give back their Fees and Commissions.

If you want a justification for Ds bad, Rs good, you have Andy.

 

[Indeependent]

Maybe you can explain how Wall Street FIRE sector speculators earn their gains in a fundamental, metaphysical sense?

Provide a useful service, get compensated.
I see why that's confusing to you.

I see why you believe Goldman Sachs provide a useful service

[Letter from Washington] The Malaysian Job, by Andrew Cockburn | Harper's Magazine

"The Malaysian Job

"Everyone in the room had recognized the allusion. “Malaysia” was shorthand for a gigantic fraud—possibly the largest in financial history—in which, beginning in 2009, billions of dollars were diverted from a Malaysian sovereign-wealth fund called 1Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) into covert campaign-finance accounts, U.S. political campaigns, Hollywood movies, and the pockets of innumerable other recipients."

To brandish G-S as all bad belies the complicated business deals across the globe they have to deal with 24/7.

 

[georgephillip]

Yes, dealing with corrupt government officials in Malaysia didn't turn out well.

Why would Goldman Sachs do business with corrupt capitalists in Maylaysia?

[Letter from Washington] The Malaysian Job, by Andrew Cockburn | Harper's Magazine

"At least one Malaysian official investigating the crime was murdered, his body stuffed into an oil barrel and encased in concrete."

Are they gangsters?

 

[Indeependent]

Yes, dealing with corrupt government officials in Malaysia didn't turn out well.

Why would Goldman Sachs do business with corrupt capitalists in Maylaysia?

[Letter from Washington] The Malaysian Job, by Andrew Cockburn | Harper's Magazine

"At least one Malaysian official investigating the crime was murdered, his body stuffed into an oil barrel and encased in concrete."

Are they gangsters?

Are you sure he wasn't investing the Clintons?

 

[georgephillip]

Maybe you can explain how Wall Street FIRE sector speculators earn their gains in a fundamental, metaphysical sense?

Provide a useful service, get compensated.
I see why that's confusing to you.

I see why you believe Goldman Sachs provide a useful service

[Letter from Washington] The Malaysian Job, by Andrew Cockburn | Harper's Magazine

"The Malaysian Job

"Everyone in the room had recognized the allusion. “Malaysia” was shorthand for a gigantic fraud—possibly the largest in financial history—in which, beginning in 2009, billions of dollars were diverted from a Malaysian sovereign-wealth fund called 1Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) into covert campaign-finance accounts, U.S. political campaigns, Hollywood movies, and the pockets of innumerable other recipients."

To brandish G-S as all bad belies the complicated business deals across the globe they have to deal with 24/7.

GS seems to appear regularly in corrupt business dealing, yet their elite executives are more likely to receive an invitation to the White House than a credible Justice Department investigation regardless of which party occupies the Oval Office. I don't believe the institution is all bad, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't pay for its many crimes,does it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

What does any of that have to do with... "What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?"

Oh! I didn't see the whole sentence.
It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.
A lot of gyms went under.
Most people paid their mortgages rather than pay other bills or participate in discretionary activities.

Lots of retires had to keep using their stock gains to support their 40 years old whose jobs and careers vanished.
In other words, crappy mortgages did not just happen in a vacuum.
People with no income lived off their parents who loved off-shoring and business visas and stopped discretionary spending.

So yeah, the inertia of crappy mortgages was GW & Congress allowing millions of Americans to lose their jobs.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.

Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.

"
Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.
Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.
They listened to Rush, even while seeing unemployed patients, and they loved the decimation of the Professional and Blue Collar work force because they knew only too well that brought stock prices up.
They didn't even care for a while that their own children weren't getting jobs after graduation because Americans need not apply.
It was when their kids wanted to move out or get married that they started realizing that they and their fellow Free Market Conservatives were forcing them to support their kids forever.
So they took out huge Home Equity Loans themselves and invested and were quite happy until the market crashed.
Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.
I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

I don't do R good, D bad or vice versa...Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.
Well, the Rs I know never had to give back their Fees and Commissions.

If you want a justification for Ds bad, Rs good, you have Andy.

Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.

So they participated and they were hurt. Not sure what point you're trying to make?

Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Romney ran in 2012.

I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

You have to get the race-hustlers off your back somehow.

Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.

You're exaggerating. Or have a unique definition for participated.

 

[Indeependent]

Maybe you can explain how Wall Street FIRE sector speculators earn their gains in a fundamental, metaphysical sense?

Provide a useful service, get compensated.
I see why that's confusing to you.

I see why you believe Goldman Sachs provide a useful service

[Letter from Washington] The Malaysian Job, by Andrew Cockburn | Harper's Magazine

"The Malaysian Job

"Everyone in the room had recognized the allusion. “Malaysia” was shorthand for a gigantic fraud—possibly the largest in financial history—in which, beginning in 2009, billions of dollars were diverted from a Malaysian sovereign-wealth fund called 1Malaysia Development Berhad (1MDB) into covert campaign-finance accounts, U.S. political campaigns, Hollywood movies, and the pockets of innumerable other recipients."

To brandish G-S as all bad belies the complicated business deals across the globe they have to deal with 24/7.

GS seems to appear regularly in corrupt business dealing, yet their elite executives are more likely to receive an invitation to the White House than a credible Justice Department investigation regardless of which party occupies the Oval Office. I don't believe the institution is all bad, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't pay for its many crimes,does it?

There isn't a Financial Firm with completely clean hands.
There isn't a Financial Firm that wants you to lose your assets.
It's an inevitable fact that G-S hires people who can assist in recovering a nation's economy.
I don't have the skillset to accomplish such.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, dealing with corrupt government officials in Malaysia didn't turn out well.

Why would Goldman Sachs do business with corrupt capitalists in Maylaysia?

[Letter from Washington] The Malaysian Job, by Andrew Cockburn | Harper's Magazine

"At least one Malaysian official investigating the crime was murdered, his body stuffed into an oil barrel and encased in concrete."

Are they gangsters?

Why would Goldman Sachs do business with corrupt capitalists in Maylaysia?

Ummm…..corrupt government officials.

Are they gangsters?

Yes, many corrupt government officials in Malaysia are gangsters.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

What does any of that have to do with... "What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?"

Oh! I didn't see the whole sentence.
It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.
A lot of gyms went under.
Most people paid their mortgages rather than pay other bills or participate in discretionary activities.

Lots of retires had to keep using their stock gains to support their 40 years old whose jobs and careers vanished.
In other words, crappy mortgages did not just happen in a vacuum.
People with no income lived off their parents who loved off-shoring and business visas and stopped discretionary spending.

So yeah, the inertia of crappy mortgages was GW & Congress allowing millions of Americans to lose their jobs.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.

Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.

"
Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.
Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.
They listened to Rush, even while seeing unemployed patients, and they loved the decimation of the Professional and Blue Collar work force because they knew only too well that brought stock prices up.
They didn't even care for a while that their own children weren't getting jobs after graduation because Americans need not apply.
It was when their kids wanted to move out or get married that they started realizing that they and their fellow Free Market Conservatives were forcing them to support their kids forever.
So they took out huge Home Equity Loans themselves and invested and were quite happy until the market crashed.
Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.
I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

I don't do R good, D bad or vice versa...Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.
Well, the Rs I know never had to give back their Fees and Commissions.

If you want a justification for Ds bad, Rs good, you have Andy.

Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.

So they participated and they were hurt. Not sure what point you're trying to make?

Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Romney ran in 2012.

I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

You have to get the race-hustlers off your back somehow.

Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.

You're exaggerating. Or have a unique definition for participated.

So they participated and they were hurt. Not sure what point you're trying to make?

What's the problem?
Read my post again.
If a sentence is vague, I'll be more than happy to rewrite it.

It's very simple that the children of investors were caught up in the sell out of Americans and their parents took out Home Equity Loans to invest in an ever skyrocketing marke to support their adult children.
The market crashed and the rich lost those investments and couldn't pay back the Home Equity Loans.
That;s pretty simple.

You are fortunate that you weren't caught in the spiral.
Almost everyone I know was.

You are correct, McCain suffered from GW's legacy.

 

[georgephillip]

Are you sure he wasn't investing the Clintons?

I think FDR was the first Democratic POTUS to bring a GS executive into his Cabinet.
Bill Clinton did his part to continue the tradition:

The People From ‘Government Sachs’

"Robert E. Rubin, co-chairman of Goldman and Treasury secretary

"Mr. Rubin amassed a fortune on Wall Street before heading the National Economic Council under President Bill Clinton.

"In 1994, Mr. Clinton selected him to become Treasury secretary. Mr. Rubin drew criticism just after his arrival in Washington when it was disclosed that he had sent farewell letters to hundreds of Goldman clients saying he was 'looking forward to working with you in my new capacity.'

"He said that he was merely being polite.

"Mr. Rubin played a role in arranging the compromise that led to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. After leaving office, he joined a leadership triangle at Citigroup."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

What does any of that have to do with... "What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?"

Oh! I didn't see the whole sentence.
It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.
A lot of gyms went under.
Most people paid their mortgages rather than pay other bills or participate in discretionary activities.

Lots of retires had to keep using their stock gains to support their 40 years old whose jobs and careers vanished.
In other words, crappy mortgages did not just happen in a vacuum.
People with no income lived off their parents who loved off-shoring and business visas and stopped discretionary spending.

So yeah, the inertia of crappy mortgages was GW & Congress allowing millions of Americans to lose their jobs.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.

Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.

"
Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.
Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.
They listened to Rush, even while seeing unemployed patients, and they loved the decimation of the Professional and Blue Collar work force because they knew only too well that brought stock prices up.
They didn't even care for a while that their own children weren't getting jobs after graduation because Americans need not apply.
It was when their kids wanted to move out or get married that they started realizing that they and their fellow Free Market Conservatives were forcing them to support their kids forever.
So they took out huge Home Equity Loans themselves and invested and were quite happy until the market crashed.
Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.
I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

I don't do R good, D bad or vice versa...Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.
Well, the Rs I know never had to give back their Fees and Commissions.

If you want a justification for Ds bad, Rs good, you have Andy.

Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.

So they participated and they were hurt. Not sure what point you're trying to make?

Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Romney ran in 2012.

I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

You have to get the race-hustlers off your back somehow.

Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.

You're exaggerating. Or have a unique definition for participated.

So they participated and they were hurt. Not sure what point you're trying to make?

What's the problem?
Read my post again.
If a sentence is vague, I'll be more than happy to rewrite it.

It's very simple that the children of investors were caught up in the sell out of Americans and their parents took out Home Equity Loans to invest in an ever skyrocketing marke to support their adult children.
The market crashed and the rich lost those investments and couldn't pay back the Home Equity Loans.
That;s pretty simple.

You are fortunate that you weren't caught in the spiral.
Almost everyone I know was.

You are correct, McCain suffered from GW's legacy.

What's the problem?

It sounded, at first, that you were complaining that innocent people were harmed.
I agree, that's unfortunate.
Then, it sounded like no, you were complaining that guilty people were harmed.

It's very simple that the children of investors were caught up in the sell out of Americans and their parents took out Home Equity Loans to invest in an ever skyrocketing marke to support their adult children.
The market crashed and the rich lost those investments and couldn't pay back the Home Equity Loans.
That;s pretty simple.

Bad people were harmed. Karma, right?

You are fortunate that you weren't caught in the spiral.

I didn't buy a home I couldn't afford.
I didn't stupidly withdraw and spend equity, thinking my home would go up forever.
I maxed out 401Ks and IRAs, consistently.
Live within my means.

 

[Indeependent]

I don't support capitalism or any version of communism (state capitalism) that has so far been practiced; why do you automatically assume anyone critical of finance capitalism supports Soviet-style communism?

because what we have favors the oligarchs , just as it does thier system

I vaguely remember we sold those bad instruments to foreign banks that came back when Americans stopped paying their mortgages and the foreign banks told us to go somewhere when we tried to sell them the next thing to keep the cash flowing.

Credit derivatives , credit default swaps, all of which are predicated on the transfer of risk , or in other words ,profit when something fails.

As I think more about it, and you make me think more about it in 2020 than I did several years ago, Clinton probably did push Fannie and Freddie to have Lenders Rubber Stamp the Loans.

the rescinding of Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........
basically the fractional banking system 's integrity was thrown under the wall street bus in the late 90's

FF to '08, '09 and that bubble created the housing bust, where Joe bag O donuts mortgage quadrupled overnight

That fine print , always a b*tch

But the myth of 45 million Americans waking up wanting to be welfare queen foreclosure bums persists

And the chief proponents who advocated the rescinding where appointed to the 'banking commission' to whitewash it all for their constituency

POINT? the house never looses in a rigged economy

~S~

Glass Steagal , which was created to protect public banking from investment banking ........

So what? Banks didn't get in trouble because of their investment banking activity, they got in trouble because they held crappy mortgages.
Glass-Steagall didn't stop banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages.

What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?

I didn't notice any difference in any of my mortgages, before, during or after the crisis.

Did you?

Can you specify what you mean?

I know hundreds of people who were unemployed for a few years , thanks to GW's administration encouraging off-shoring and business visas, getting 600K mortagages over the phone simply by saying, "Yes."
Before 2004, when I would actually get calls and a programming position, I was ordered to either comment out or delete any code that enforced legislative rules.
A lot of people in the Finance industry knew they would never be audited (yes, I sat at many a Shabbos lunch table hearing this) so they did whatever they knew they could get away with to get their fees and commissions.
You probably were not in a professional or personal position to encounter these events.
Most of the physicians I know were making money taking out Home Equity Loans and investing those loans in the Stock Market.
They lost many of their patients who were laid off, and so these patients, including myself, no longer had insurance, .
My physicians were kind enough to see me free of charge, a practice that the ACA eliminated.

You see, on legislative paper, everything looked 100% kosher.
In reality, not one line of legislation was audited or enforced and millions of staving, unemployed people, who didn't quite have the Internet we have today, were being led to the slaughter house by being given loans they knew they didn't qualify for by financial institutions that, by law and software, were breaking the law by handing out the loans.

Post DOT.COM Sarbanes/Oxley ...
Unlike what Rush "Adolf Hitler" Limbaugh was spouting, "Borrower Beware!", the law was now "Lender Beware!".
But the reality is always in the hands of the guy with the microphone and who owns the media outlets.

And that's why, in the end, a pitiful 7 CEOs were sort of punished. and not one Director was even given a slap on the wrist.

For those who didn't suffer through any of this, and I don't wish it on anyone, all guys like myself have are "anecdotes", for the millions of others who called us crybabies, God will settle the score.

What does any of that have to do with... "What effect did those crappy mortgages mortgages have on people who were able to afford their mortgages?"

Oh! I didn't see the whole sentence.
It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.
A lot of gyms went under.
Most people paid their mortgages rather than pay other bills or participate in discretionary activities.

Lots of retires had to keep using their stock gains to support their 40 years old whose jobs and careers vanished.
In other words, crappy mortgages did not just happen in a vacuum.
People with no income lived off their parents who loved off-shoring and business visas and stopped discretionary spending.

So yeah, the inertia of crappy mortgages was GW & Congress allowing millions of Americans to lose their jobs.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

It had a major effect on MDs, Dentists and other Health Professionals who lost loads of patients and smaller stores that lost a lot of business.

Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.

And that's what caused Barack Obama to beat Mitt Romney...crappy mortgages are there because something caused them.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.

"
Yes, plenty of people who didn't participate in the mortgage bubble were hurt when it popped.
That happens in every recession. This one wasn't helped by Obama's idiocy slowing down and dragging out the recovery.
Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.
They listened to Rush, even while seeing unemployed patients, and they loved the decimation of the Professional and Blue Collar work force because they knew only too well that brought stock prices up.
They didn't even care for a while that their own children weren't getting jobs after graduation because Americans need not apply.
It was when their kids wanted to move out or get married that they started realizing that they and their fellow Free Market Conservatives were forcing them to support their kids forever.
So they took out huge Home Equity Loans themselves and invested and were quite happy until the market crashed.
Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Obama's "community organizing" here in Chicago, forcing banks to make more crappy loans in black neighborhoods because "redlining" probably did more to blow up the bubble than Romney.
I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

I don't do R good, D bad or vice versa...Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.
Well, the Rs I know never had to give back their Fees and Commissions.

If you want a justification for Ds bad, Rs good, you have Andy.

Oh, but they did participate in the mortgage bubble...knowingly.

So they participated and they were hurt. Not sure what point you're trying to make?

Until the moment the market crashed they were salivating for Mitt Romney.

Romney ran in 2012.

I'll pass that along to all the Rs I know who Rubber Stamped the software that Obama gave to the Lenders; the software that rejected the applicant.
You see, I know this because I went in to a Citibank and the screen said Rejected.
The gut went into the backroom and came out a few minuted later with the paper version of the screen Rubber Stamped APPROVED.

You have to get the race-hustlers off your back somehow.

Everyone participated and everyone, in the end, got screwed.

You're exaggerating. Or have a unique definition for participated.

So they participated and they were hurt. Not sure what point you're trying to make?

What's the problem?
Read my post again.
If a sentence is vague, I'll be more than happy to rewrite it.

It's very simple that the children of investors were caught up in the sell out of Americans and their parents took out Home Equity Loans to invest in an ever skyrocketing marke to support their adult children.
The market crashed and the rich lost those investments and couldn't pay back the Home Equity Loans.
That;s pretty simple.

You are fortunate that you weren't caught in the spiral.
Almost everyone I know was.

You are correct, McCain suffered from GW's legacy.

What's the problem?

It sounded, at first, that you were complaining that innocent people were harmed.
I agree, that's unfortunate.
Then, it sounded like no, you were complaining that guilty people were harmed.

It's very simple that the children of investors were caught up in the sell out of Americans and their parents took out Home Equity Loans to invest in an ever skyrocketing marke to support their adult children.
The market crashed and the rich lost those investments and couldn't pay back the Home Equity Loans.
That;s pretty simple.

Bad people were harmed. Karma, right?

You are fortunate that you weren't caught in the spiral.

I didn't buy a home I couldn't afford.
I didn't stupidly withdraw and spend equity, thinking my home would go up forever.
I maxed out 401Ks and IRAs, consistently.
Live within my means.

Most of the people who were hit already had homes and careers that were suddenly gone.
They lost their careers without warning by a tidal wave of Business Visas and Off-Shoring.

One bit of ironic justice was...
FoxNews blaming graduates for getting degrees in in Witchcraft and Basket Weaving!
People I know who watched FoxNews and only FoxNews then blaming graduates for getting degrees in in Witchcraft and Basket Weaving!
People I know who watched FoxNews and only FoxNews having children who then graduating with hard science degrees, law degrees, finance degrees...
Who couldn't get a job because the Best & Brightest shipped in from India and China received those jobs.
I would then ask them "Why did you allowed your child to waste their hard on money on...
a degree in Witchcraft or Basket Weaving.

Most of the them couldn't even look me in the eye.

But you are correct about one thing under Trump (and I love Trump)...
The coming Housing Crash will be caused by people who serve food for a living.
And the Lenders still won't pay the price.

 

[georgephillip]

Are they gangsters?

Yes, many corrupt government officials in Malaysia are gangsters.

Any gangsters at Goldman Sachs?
If so, why aren't they being investigated for doing "God's work"?

Goldman Sachs' $500 Million Mea Culpa

"It’s truly touching that Goldman Sachs’ CEO Lloyd Blankfein, who recently said that his too-big-to-fail, Fed-backed holding company is doing 'God’s work,' has offered a mea culpa (of sorts) for his firm’s past sins.

"Our beneficent overlords at Goldman Sachs promise to bestow upon small business a boon of $500 million."

"This generous sum is about 3 percent of the $16.7 billion that Goldman has set aside for its employees this year — a year of expected record-breaking profits on Wall Street."