The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[PMZ]

How's your private insurance plan working for you? Why aren't you choosing the "public option?"

I shop on Medicare.gov and take the best deal. I would think everyone would.

I also don't believe for a second that private insurance would voluntarily offer what Medicare requires them to.

I don't think that I've run into any dissatisfaction with Medicare except for young people who've fallen for Republican propaganda that it won't be there for them.

I did however have to fend off a private company who signed me up without my permission. It's a good thing that Medicare has rules against such shenanigans as people who aren't able to keep track of things could really get screwed by such crooks.

You are again ignorant about that which you support. Medicare Advantage plans were created specifically to provide a private alternative to Original Medicare. Sure there are rules, just like any other business.

Glad to see you prefer the private sector for yourself. I wish you'd just let others have the same choice.

People under 65 (except military) have no choice but the private sector for insurance.

The government pays private insurance companies about a 15% premium for offering Medicare Advantage plans, over what I currently pay into Medicare, because they take over administration costs.

Private companies share that 15% with policy holders in terms of some minor increased benefits.

 

[PMZ]

No I really don't. Because in this country's political climate and the 'goodies' hole that politicians have dug themselves over the years, no politician can afford to take anything away from anyone.

Now you can say some solution isn't true. And we're actually seeing that now. This Obamacare solution is making the healthcare costs of millions of Americans go up significantly. And it isn't actually reducing the cost of health care either. That some people have to pay less for it because they're being subsidized is not the same thing as reducing the cost of health care.

The cost of health care has changed as it does every year.

The insurance to cover those costs has changed for many reasons.

I don't see how it's possible, when things stabilize, for there not to be a reduction in two significant costs.

Medical bankruptcies because ACA requires coverage for the main causes of them.

And emergency room care for non emergencies.

The only cost increase possibility is from subsidies which I agree with as I believe that health is as close to a right as one can get.

Others are welcome to other opinions but I feel if we are going to pay full time workers inadequate wages we have to make it up somehow.

Do you honestly not see how a new federal entitlement program could become even more expensive? Name one federal program that has reduced expenses. This ought to be good.

Name one Federal program that private companies offer an alternative to.

 

[asterism]

I shop on Medicare.gov and take the best deal. I would think everyone would.

I also don't believe for a second that private insurance would voluntarily offer what Medicare requires them to.

I don't think that I've run into any dissatisfaction with Medicare except for young people who've fallen for Republican propaganda that it won't be there for them.

I did however have to fend off a private company who signed me up without my permission. It's a good thing that Medicare has rules against such shenanigans as people who aren't able to keep track of things could really get screwed by such crooks.

You are again ignorant about that which you support. Medicare Advantage plans were created specifically to provide a private alternative to Original Medicare. Sure there are rules, just like any other business.

Glad to see you prefer the private sector for yourself. I wish you'd just let others have the same choice.

People under 65 (except military) have no choice but the private sector for insurance.

The government pays private insurance companies about a 15% premium for offering Medicare Advantage plans, over what I currently pay into Medicare, because they take over administration costs.

Private companies share that 15% with policy holders in terms of some minor increased benefits.

More ignorance from you.

First, a history of Medicare Advantage.

An Economic History of Medicare Part C

Second, the policy holders receive all of their Medicare-covered healthcare from providers that are paid by the plan, not just some minor increased benefits:

What Medicare health plans cover | Medicare.gov

Third, here is a detailed explanation of revenue received by Medicare Advantage Plans (way way over and above 15% of the $104.90 you pay for Part B).

http://www.medpac.gov/documents/MedPAC_Payment_Basics_07_MA.pdf

http://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Health-Plans/MedicareAdvtgSpecRateStats/downloads/Advance2014.pdf

It averages about $830 plus incentives and adjustments.

How much will Medicare pay Medicare Advantage Plans in 2013?

 

[asterism]

The cost of health care has changed as it does every year.

The insurance to cover those costs has changed for many reasons.

I don't see how it's possible, when things stabilize, for there not to be a reduction in two significant costs.

Medical bankruptcies because ACA requires coverage for the main causes of them.

And emergency room care for non emergencies.

The only cost increase possibility is from subsidies which I agree with as I believe that health is as close to a right as one can get.

Others are welcome to other opinions but I feel if we are going to pay full time workers inadequate wages we have to make it up somehow.

Do you honestly not see how a new federal entitlement program could become even more expensive? Name one federal program that has reduced expenses. This ought to be good.

Name one Federal program that private companies offer an alternative to.

Original Medicare with the $1216 deductible, 20% co-insurance, and no out of pocket maximum.

 

[Listening]

Do you honestly not see how a new federal entitlement program could become even more expensive? Name one federal program that has reduced expenses. This ought to be good.

Name one Federal program that private companies offer an alternative to.

Original Medicare with the $1216 deductible, 20% co-insurance, and no out of pocket maximum.

How about the speedy mail service ? Postal Service is in deep financial doo-doo.

 

[asterism]

Name one Federal program that private companies offer an alternative to.

Original Medicare with the $1216 deductible, 20% co-insurance, and no out of pocket maximum.

How about the speedy mail service ? Postal Service is in deep financial doo-doo.

Good point, I was getting there.

I'm currently waiting to his response to actual facts about Medicare Advantage in direct contrast to the fiction he posted.

15% premium over what he currently pays into Medicare? Where did he get that fabrication? Did he just make it up? I can't find any reference to it anywhere.

But then again he seems to be a self-anointed expert in this while I'm a licensed and federally credentialed expert.

 

[Listening]

No I really don't. Because in this country's political climate and the 'goodies' hole that politicians have dug themselves over the years, no politician can afford to take anything away from anyone.

Now you can say some solution isn't true. And we're actually seeing that now. This Obamacare solution is making the healthcare costs of millions of Americans go up significantly. And it isn't actually reducing the cost of health care either. That some people have to pay less for it because they're being subsidized is not the same thing as reducing the cost of health care.

The cost of health care has changed as it does every year.

The insurance to cover those costs has changed for many reasons.

I don't see how it's possible, when things stabilize, for there not to be a reduction in two significant costs.

Medical bankruptcies because ACA requires coverage for the main causes of them.

And emergency room care for non emergencies.

The only cost increase possibility is from subsidies which I agree with as I believe that health is as close to a right as one can get.

Others are welcome to other opinions but I feel if we are going to pay full time workers inadequate wages we have to make it up somehow.

Do you honestly not see how a new federal entitlement program could become even more expensive? Name one federal program that has reduced expenses. This ought to be good.

I scrolled through the bottom and looked at his ignored posts to see if she would respond. As usual, there was a deflection.

PMZ is an asshole that has no real argument of her own. She simply parrots the drivel that falls out the asshole of the DailyKos. She laps it up and proudly wears it on her forehead with such clarity that people can clearly see one word that sums it up...."IDIOT".

These are supposed to be debates. She never debates. These are supposed to be places that information is shared. The only information we get from PMZ is that she has her head up her fat ass (which makes the fact she can type pretty remarkable....maybe her para helps her...don't know).

So good luck. I'd prefer she not post to threads where people are trying to carry on conversations. The bandwidth she takes up is appalling.

There is solace to know that once she dies, her remains will be composted to some garden where she will make vegetables more tasty. Everyone has a contribution to make.

 

[PMZ]

You are again ignorant about that which you support. Medicare Advantage plans were created specifically to provide a private alternative to Original Medicare. Sure there are rules, just like any other business.

Glad to see you prefer the private sector for yourself. I wish you'd just let others have the same choice.

People under 65 (except military) have no choice but the private sector for insurance.

The government pays private insurance companies about a 15% premium for offering Medicare Advantage plans, over what I currently pay into Medicare, because they take over administration costs.

Private companies share that 15% with policy holders in terms of some minor increased benefits.

More ignorance from you.

First, a history of Medicare Advantage.

An Economic History of Medicare Part C

Second, the policy holders receive all of their Medicare-covered healthcare from providers that are paid by the plan, not just some minor increased benefits:

What Medicare health plans cover | Medicare.gov

Third, here is a detailed explanation of revenue received by Medicare Advantage Plans (way way over and above 15% of the $104.90 you pay for Part B).

http://www.medpac.gov/documents/MedPAC_Payment_Basics_07_MA.pdf

http://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Health-Plans/MedicareAdvtgSpecRateStats/downloads/Advance2014.pdf

It averages about $830 plus incentives and adjustments.

How much will Medicare pay Medicare Advantage Plans in 2013?

It depends completely on the county and the experience with regular Medicare covered recipients in that County. Just like all private insurance does.

Florida and California counties are the most advantageous for Advantage plans. Many counties offer no advantage.

It's a complicated formula but one that all parties, the insured, Medicare, and private insurers benefit from. Otherwise it wouldn't exist.

 

[PMZ]

Do you honestly not see how a new federal entitlement program could become even more expensive? Name one federal program that has reduced expenses. This ought to be good.

Name one Federal program that private companies offer an alternative to.

Original Medicare with the $1216 deductible, 20% co-insurance, and no out of pocket maximum.

I don't know what original Medicare is.

I do know that many more people choose Medicare over Medicare Advantage. Some use private Medicare Supplemental Insurance and Medicare.

 

[PMZ]

Name one Federal program that private companies offer an alternative to.

Original Medicare with the $1216 deductible, 20% co-insurance, and no out of pocket maximum.

How about the speedy mail service ? Postal Service is in deep financial doo-doo.

Anybody required to deliver what and when they are would have similar problems. That's why private companies take on only the profitable stuff.

 

[Bern80]

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

No I really don't. Because in this country's political climate and the 'goodies' hole that politicians have dug themselves over the years, no politician can afford to take anything away from anyone.

Now you can say some solution isn't true. And we're actually seeing that now. This Obamacare solution is making the healthcare costs of millions of Americans go up significantly. And it isn't actually reducing the cost of health care either. That some people have to pay less for it because they're being subsidized is not the same thing as reducing the cost of health care.

The cost of health care has changed as it does every year.

The insurance to cover those costs has changed for many reasons.

I don't see how it's possible, when things stabilize, for there not to be a reduction in two significant costs.

Medical bankruptcies because ACA requires coverage for the main causes of them.

And emergency room care for non emergencies.

The only cost increase possibility is from subsidies which I agree with as I believe that health is as close to a right as one can get.

Others are welcome to other opinions but I feel if we are going to pay full time workers inadequate wages we have to make it up somehow.

If you look at the economic mechanisms in place, you should be asking yourself why wouldn't prices go up? Not whether they'll go down. There are two fundamental aspects of the law that drive the cost of premiums up? The new coverage mandates telling insurance companies what they must cover. With added value comes added cost. Simple as that. The second part is the mandate on how insurance companies must perform their community ratings. No longer can they formulate this based on risk. The law requires them to take all of the people with the same plan in a given area and average out the cost of the premium for that plan. Obviously when averaged against the cost of sick people the premium costs of healthy people are going to go up. Next the pre-existing condition and no cancellation mandate. Insurance companies can't deny on that basis nor can they drop you if you get sick. While that might seem the right and compassionate thing to do, the reality is inescapable that it means now insurance companies have to actually pay for sick people. An expense for them that will go up meaning premium rates have to go up to cover it.

So you all of these drivers in the law that make costs go up. With none that make them come down. Obama needs young, healthy people to sign up before he has a mutiny on his hands and gets exposed for lie number two. Not only did he tell is if you liked your plan you could keep your plan, we were told the whoel point was to make health care cost less. When you have all of these drivers that cause prices to go up what exactly is going to counteract that enough to make them come down? Forget about premium prices coming down. He needs enough young healthy people to sign up just to back to break even from the damage all of those other mandates have caused.

 

[asterism]

People under 65 (except military) have no choice but the private sector for insurance.

The government pays private insurance companies about a 15% premium for offering Medicare Advantage plans, over what I currently pay into Medicare, because they take over administration costs.

Private companies share that 15% with policy holders in terms of some minor increased benefits.

More ignorance from you.

First, a history of Medicare Advantage.

An Economic History of Medicare Part C

Second, the policy holders receive all of their Medicare-covered healthcare from providers that are paid by the plan, not just some minor increased benefits:

What Medicare health plans cover | Medicare.gov

Third, here is a detailed explanation of revenue received by Medicare Advantage Plans (way way over and above 15% of the $104.90 you pay for Part B).

http://www.medpac.gov/documents/MedPAC_Payment_Basics_07_MA.pdf

http://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Health-Plans/MedicareAdvtgSpecRateStats/downloads/Advance2014.pdf

It averages about $830 plus incentives and adjustments.

How much will Medicare pay Medicare Advantage Plans in 2013?

It depends completely on the county and the experience with regular Medicare covered recipients in that County. Just like all private insurance does.

Florida and California counties are the most advantageous for Advantage plans. Many counties offer no advantage.

It's a complicated formula but one that all parties, the insured, Medicare, and private insurers benefit from. Otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Correct.

It's a private alternative to the federal program and the average payment is around $830 per month per beneficiary.

I'd link to my federal exams on Medicare for you but that's not allowed.

 

[asterism]

Name one Federal program that private companies offer an alternative to.

Original Medicare with the $1216 deductible, 20% co-insurance, and no out of pocket maximum.

I don't know what original Medicare is.

I do know that many more people choose Medicare over Medicare Advantage. Some use private Medicare Supplemental Insurance and Medicare.

Well at least you admit that you're ignorant and uneducated on this topic so that's a start.

Perhaps you should argue from a position of informed knowledge instead of just making things up.

 

[Bern80]

It used to be quite common to put workers in situations where their health, or even life, was put at risk by their work. We found that technology and regulations eliminated virtually all of that barbaric practice (except for the military although it's greatly improved there too).

If we ask people to work at wages that make health care unaffordable for them, aren't we recreating what we left behind decades ago?

You're arguing like it's a once sided scenario though. 'Well this what company x pays so I guess that's all I can ever get.' That's simply not true and for some people the risk is acceptable. Basically what you have here is scenario where an employer and worker come together and agree on compensation for work, whatever the conditions of that job may be. Then you, a third party step in and say well I don't think those terms are fair to the worker. What business is it of yours what working conditions someone else finds acceptable?

Further you just agreed with me that no man has the right to obligate another to their needs. Well that's exactly what you're doing when you insist government is supposed to pick up the tab for your health care. That's why is YOUR job to figure out how to earn whatever you need to earn to manage your life's expenses.

 

[PMZ]

I said that I believe that health care is a right. If business chooses to provide for that, that's great. In fact that was the direction that the country was going until business decided to create unemployment to reduce labor costs. They dropped the ball.

The only one left standing is government. I hope that you're happy with that when it comes.

Tell me this though. Who benefits from a country with sub-optimal health. Companies? Families? Communities? Schools? The wealthy? The poor?

Who?

 

[Listening]

It used to be quite common to put workers in situations where their health, or even life, was put at risk by their work. We found that technology and regulations eliminated virtually all of that barbaric practice (except for the military although it's greatly improved there too).

If we ask people to work at wages that make health care unaffordable for them, aren't we recreating what we left behind decades ago?

You're arguing like it's a once sided scenario though. 'Well this what company x pays so I guess that's all I can ever get.' That's simply not true and for some people the risk is acceptable. Basically what you have here is scenario where an employer and worker come together and agree on compensation for work, whatever the conditions of that job may be. Then you, a third party step in and say well I don't think those terms are fair to the worker. What business is it of yours what working conditions someone else finds acceptable?

Further you just agreed with me that no man has the right to obligate another to their needs. Well that's exactly what you're doing when you insist government is supposed to pick up the tab for your health care. That's why is YOUR job to figure out how to earn whatever you need to earn to manage your life's expenses.

We keep coming back to....who gets to set the standards.

The whole Junk Plan bullshyt was nothing more than an effort to cover up the BIG LIE.

This president is as arrogant as they come. WTF does he think he is...telling us what is good and what isn't.

If they want to claim it is in the public good.....outlaw cigarettes...then I'll believe that is what they want. Then raise the drinking age to 25 and enforce it.

This is all nothing but collectivism in it's worst form.

This country will be in open revolt pretty soon. It is unfortunate that those on the left don't realize they are going to wind up on the wrong end of bad situation (which starts with a loud bang) because they failed to realize that many in this country are not like the Europeans who just roll over and suck on whatever the government says.

 

[Ernie S.]

People are programmed to forget that when Republicans had power last, they almost sunk the country. We'll be paying their bills for many, many, many generations

Despite that, they like to pretend that the proper comparison is not between Democrat and Republican results, but between Democrat results and imaginary perfection. And they get away with that by doing nothing so there are no real alternatives to compare to.

And the minions lap it up like mothers milk.

How does it feel to be the USMB member with the lowest reputation?

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

But you voted for obama twice? Liar!

 

[Ernie S.]

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

YOU are the enemy of this contry and what it stands for PMZ. This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs. That is exactly what Obamacare does. It makes the young, healthy and middle class responsible for the health care costs of the sick and poor.

"This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs."

BTW, I agree with this.

That's why for everyone who's able to, paying for their own health care, is so important. Perhaps some day business will go back to liberal growth and have an adequate job for everyone. Then we can all be completely on our own rather than needing help. But until then we can require personal responsibility for health care from those who can.

There ya go. That's not what obamacare asks. You want young people to pay more so that you have coverage for preexisting conditions, so Mary Brown has maternity coverage, so the obese guy down the street can get the extra treatments he needs due to his sedentary life style, on the backs of the young and healthy.
It's another wealth redistribution scheme.
A single 25 year old guy needs only catastrophic coverage at maybe $50/month, but obamacare forces him to pay for the fat diabetic 60 year old who has smoked for 45 years and the woman to pops out a baby every year.

 

[Listening]

Chris Matthews: The Political Loser of the Year is... - Daniel Doherty

Chris Matthews seems a bit unnerved at the way things are going.

Good. I hope he chokes on his Eggnog.

 

[BlackSand]

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

In light of the comment quoted ...

Did you know that masturbation as a form of self abuse is a sign of PTSD or Childhood Sexual Abuse?
Where it may be none of my business that you have no intention of playing nicely with yourself ... Please seek immediate help.

.