The glaring evidence that Obamacare is a catastrophic FAILURE continues to mount

[Ernie S.]

The country was just fine until Reid/Pelosi

 

[dblack]

People are programmed to forget that when Republicans had power last, they almost sunk the country. We'll be paying their bills for many, many, many generations

Despite that, they like to pretend that the proper comparison is not between Democrat and Republican results, but between Democrat results and imaginary perfection. And they get away with that by doing nothing so there are no real alternatives to compare to.

And the minions lap it up like mothers milk.

Yep. The same people are running both parties. Time to wake up.

 

[PMZ]

The country was just fine until Reid/Pelosi

World class delusion. Any thinking person has to ask where does this level of denial come from?

 

[Ernie S.]

People are programmed to forget that when Republicans had power last, they almost sunk the country. We'll be paying their bills for many, many, many generations

Despite that, they like to pretend that the proper comparison is not between Democrat and Republican results, but between Democrat results and imaginary perfection. And they get away with that by doing nothing so there are no real alternatives to compare to.

And the minions lap it up like mothers milk.

How does it feel to be the USMB member with the lowest reputation?

 

[PMZ]

People are programmed to forget that when Republicans had power last, they almost sunk the country. We'll be paying their bills for many, many, many generations

Despite that, they like to pretend that the proper comparison is not between Democrat and Republican results, but between Democrat results and imaginary perfection. And they get away with that by doing nothing so there are no real alternatives to compare to.

And the minions lap it up like mothers milk.

How does it feel to be the USMB member with the lowest reputation?

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

 

[Bern80]

One thing is obvious. Those nursed on Republican propaganda know exactly what they're getting but it tastes so good and nourishes their demanding control freak egos so they can't stop.

They know that it's all bullshit but it feels so good to hear that, despite your hatred for most of the rest of the world, the Fox boobs and boobies love you and tell you that you're sooo smart.

Nobody admits to their Fox or Limbaugh addiction. But the chorus singing in goose stepping harmony is indisputable evidence of their atrophied brains being on the feeding tube.

The giant flushing sound that you hear is their movement swirling the bowl.

You just proved Rotweiler's point. You can't defend the policy itself. Even if you argue it's okay for the young and healthy to subsidize the old, sick and poor you still have the minisucle benefit provided to those people overshadowed by a mountain of negatives that have come with it. You can keep barking Fox news and Limbaugh until your blue in the face. The fact is I don't have the time personally to watch or listen to either of them. One doesn't need to listen to either of them or right wing pundit or right wing news source to see the obvious problems with Obamacare. Until you can show that you can make a credible argument that despite what is in front of our faces, Obamacare is largely a success, instead of vomiting 'you're a Fox news parrot' endlessly, no one is going to take you seriously.

Obamacare is largely a success compared to doing nothing about the twice as expensive, half as effective American health care non system.

So you're contention is that Obamacare has cut people's health care expenses in half? Are the millions of Americans complaining about their premiums and deductibles going up just lieing?

 

[Bern80]

People are programmed to forget that when Republicans had power last, they almost sunk the country. We'll be paying their bills for many, many, many generations

Despite that, they like to pretend that the proper comparison is not between Democrat and Republican results, but between Democrat results and imaginary perfection. And they get away with that by doing nothing so there are no real alternatives to compare to.

And the minions lap it up like mothers milk.

How does it feel to be the USMB member with the lowest reputation?

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

YOU are the enemy of this contry and what it stands for PMZ. This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs. That is exactly what Obamacare does. It makes the young, healthy and middle class responsible for the health care costs of the sick and poor.

 

[PMZ]

You just proved Rotweiler's point. You can't defend the policy itself. Even if you argue it's okay for the young and healthy to subsidize the old, sick and poor you still have the minisucle benefit provided to those people overshadowed by a mountain of negatives that have come with it. You can keep barking Fox news and Limbaugh until your blue in the face. The fact is I don't have the time personally to watch or listen to either of them. One doesn't need to listen to either of them or right wing pundit or right wing news source to see the obvious problems with Obamacare. Until you can show that you can make a credible argument that despite what is in front of our faces, Obamacare is largely a success, instead of vomiting 'you're a Fox news parrot' endlessly, no one is going to take you seriously.

Obamacare is largely a success compared to doing nothing about the twice as expensive, half as effective American health care non system.

So you're contention is that Obamacare has cut people's health care expenses in half? Are the millions of Americans complaining about their premiums and deductibles going up just lieing?

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

 

[Bern80]

People are programmed to forget that when Republicans had power last, they almost sunk the country. We'll be paying their bills for many, many, many generations

Despite that, they like to pretend that the proper comparison is not between Democrat and Republican results, but between Democrat results and imaginary perfection. And they get away with that by doing nothing so there are no real alternatives to compare to.

And the minions lap it up like mothers milk.

I don't disagree Republicans did a lot to get us into the level of debt we're in. That doesn't make it okay for your boy Obama to be the single largest contributor to the that debt, EVER!

 

[asterism]

Obamacare is largely a success compared to doing nothing about the twice as expensive, half as effective American health care non system.

So you're contention is that Obamacare has cut people's health care expenses in half? Are the millions of Americans complaining about their premiums and deductibles going up just lieing?

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

How's your private insurance plan working for you? Why aren't you choosing the "public option?"

 

[Bern80]

Obamacare is largely a success compared to doing nothing about the twice as expensive, half as effective American health care non system.

So you're contention is that Obamacare has cut people's health care expenses in half? Are the millions of Americans complaining about their premiums and deductibles going up just lieing?

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

No I really don't. Because in this country's political climate and the 'goodies' hole that politicians have dug themselves over the years, no politician can afford to take anything away from anyone.

Now you can say some solution isn't true. And we're actually seeing that now. This Obamacare solution is making the healthcare costs of millions of Americans go up significantly. And it isn't actually reducing the cost of health care either. That some people have to pay less for it because they're being subsidized is not the same thing as reducing the cost of health care.

 

[PMZ]

How does it feel to be the USMB member with the lowest reputation?

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

YOU are the enemy of this contry and what it stands for PMZ. This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs. That is exactly what Obamacare does. It makes the young, healthy and middle class responsible for the health care costs of the sick and poor.

We are the only developed country in the world that believes that ill health is an economic advantage.

The evidence all points to that being wrong.

ACA is no different than every other law on the books in that it prescribes negative consequences for irresponsible behavior. You can recite all of the propaganda that you've been fed, 'till the cows come home, but that irrefutable fact remains.

If you really are compelled to irresponsibility, the world is a tough place to live in.

Prisons are full of people learning that lesson.

 

[PMZ]

People are programmed to forget that when Republicans had power last, they almost sunk the country. We'll be paying their bills for many, many, many generations

Despite that, they like to pretend that the proper comparison is not between Democrat and Republican results, but between Democrat results and imaginary perfection. And they get away with that by doing nothing so there are no real alternatives to compare to.

And the minions lap it up like mothers milk.

I don't disagree Republicans did a lot to get us into the level of debt we're in. That doesn't make it okay for your boy Obama to be the single largest contributor to the that debt, EVER!

You'd be right on if debt was caused by dates.

 

[PMZ]

How does it feel to be the USMB member with the lowest reputation?

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

YOU are the enemy of this contry and what it stands for PMZ. This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs. That is exactly what Obamacare does. It makes the young, healthy and middle class responsible for the health care costs of the sick and poor.

"This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs."

BTW, I agree with this.

That's why for everyone who's able to, paying for their own health care, is so important. Perhaps some day business will go back to liberal growth and have an adequate job for everyone. Then we can all be completely on our own rather than needing help. But until then we can require personal responsibility for health care from those who can.

 

[Bern80]

Great. Every neg rep is an accomplishment. A truth revealed and confronted.

I have no intention ever of playing nice to the enemies of my country.

YOU are the enemy of this contry and what it stands for PMZ. This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs. That is exactly what Obamacare does. It makes the young, healthy and middle class responsible for the health care costs of the sick and poor.

"This country was NOT created so that some could obligate others to their needs."

BTW, I agree with this.

That's why for everyone who's able to, paying for their own health care, is so important. Perhaps some day business will go back to liberal growth and have an adequate job for everyone. Then we can all be completely on our own rather than needing help. But until then we can require personal responsibility for health care from those who can.

Except Obamacare doesn't do that. It make OTHER people responsible for someone who chooses not to take responsibility for themselves. You're refering to the individual mandate as making people take responsibility. The typical rebuttal to this is either, that's what people were doing before the mandate. We were still paying for those that couldn't. That begs the question why is this way of other people paying better than the old way of other people pay for people? The other rebuttal is, do we just let people die on the streets. The answer to that is, YES!. You make taking repsonsibility for yourself a necessity, not by making it law, but requiring it for survival. Coupled with that you make policy that actually reduces the cost of what health care services cost, instead of the stupid Obamacare solution, 'let's just get everyone covered by insurance and that will fix everything'. Clearly that isn't the case. It has had one positive impact: It has reduced the cost of insurance for those that couldn't afford it. Unfortunately that was to the detriment of almost everyone else and every other component of the system. And the right hates to say I told you so, but we told you so. Of course the costs for the sick and poor would go down. We knew that because the mechanism was there. We also knew what the reaction of the insurance industry was going to be as a result of those mechanisms. Costs for the middle class and healthy go up. Low and behold that's EXACTLY what happened. The only reason it happened anyway was because Obama had to lie. He couldn't just say 'My goal is to subsidize the health care costs elderly, sick and poor. To do that I'm going to have to put in some mechanisms that will raise the cost insurance and health care for everyone else.' Obviously Obamacare would have never passed if Obama was honest about it up front.

 

[PMZ]

So you're contention is that Obamacare has cut people's health care expenses in half? Are the millions of Americans complaining about their premiums and deductibles going up just lieing?

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

How's your private insurance plan working for you? Why aren't you choosing the "public option?"

I shop on Medicare.gov and take the best deal. I would think everyone would.

I also don't believe for a second that private insurance would voluntarily offer what Medicare requires them to.

I don't think that I've run into any dissatisfaction with Medicare except for young people who've fallen for Republican propaganda that it won't be there for them.

I did however have to fend off a private company who signed me up without my permission. It's a good thing that Medicare has rules against such shenanigans as people who aren't able to keep track of things could really get screwed by such crooks.

 

[PMZ]

So you're contention is that Obamacare has cut people's health care expenses in half? Are the millions of Americans complaining about their premiums and deductibles going up just lieing?

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

No I really don't. Because in this country's political climate and the 'goodies' hole that politicians have dug themselves over the years, no politician can afford to take anything away from anyone.

Now you can say some solution isn't true. And we're actually seeing that now. This Obamacare solution is making the healthcare costs of millions of Americans go up significantly. And it isn't actually reducing the cost of health care either. That some people have to pay less for it because they're being subsidized is not the same thing as reducing the cost of health care.

The cost of health care has changed as it does every year.

The insurance to cover those costs has changed for many reasons.

I don't see how it's possible, when things stabilize, for there not to be a reduction in two significant costs.

Medical bankruptcies because ACA requires coverage for the main causes of them.

And emergency room care for non emergencies.

The only cost increase possibility is from subsidies which I agree with as I believe that health is as close to a right as one can get.

Others are welcome to other opinions but I feel if we are going to pay full time workers inadequate wages we have to make it up somehow.

 

[PMZ]

It used to be quite common to put workers in situations where their health, or even life, was put at risk by their work. We found that technology and regulations eliminated virtually all of that barbaric practice (except for the military although it's greatly improved there too).

If we ask people to work at wages that make health care unaffordable for them, aren't we recreating what we left behind decades ago?

 

[asterism]

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

How's your private insurance plan working for you? Why aren't you choosing the "public option?"

I shop on Medicare.gov and take the best deal. I would think everyone would.

I also don't believe for a second that private insurance would voluntarily offer what Medicare requires them to.

I don't think that I've run into any dissatisfaction with Medicare except for young people who've fallen for Republican propaganda that it won't be there for them.

I did however have to fend off a private company who signed me up without my permission. It's a good thing that Medicare has rules against such shenanigans as people who aren't able to keep track of things could really get screwed by such crooks.

You are again ignorant about that which you support. Medicare Advantage plans were created specifically to provide a private alternative to Original Medicare. Sure there are rules, just like any other business.

Glad to see you prefer the private sector for yourself. I wish you'd just let others have the same choice.

 

[asterism]

It's a long way from a full solution. But covering those that we choose not to pay enough to access cost and cure effective health care should give us a big boost on the results side of the ledger.

Maybe if and when the GOP becomes relevant enough again to win some elections, they will lead the cost saving solutions.

Do you think that's possible?

No I really don't. Because in this country's political climate and the 'goodies' hole that politicians have dug themselves over the years, no politician can afford to take anything away from anyone.

Now you can say some solution isn't true. And we're actually seeing that now. This Obamacare solution is making the healthcare costs of millions of Americans go up significantly. And it isn't actually reducing the cost of health care either. That some people have to pay less for it because they're being subsidized is not the same thing as reducing the cost of health care.

The cost of health care has changed as it does every year.

The insurance to cover those costs has changed for many reasons.

I don't see how it's possible, when things stabilize, for there not to be a reduction in two significant costs.

Medical bankruptcies because ACA requires coverage for the main causes of them.

And emergency room care for non emergencies.

The only cost increase possibility is from subsidies which I agree with as I believe that health is as close to a right as one can get.

Others are welcome to other opinions but I feel if we are going to pay full time workers inadequate wages we have to make it up somehow.

Do you honestly not see how a new federal entitlement program could become even more expensive? Name one federal program that has reduced expenses. This ought to be good.